Phoenix-CoT and Next Delay

[Ballstone]

I read both FAQs and so let's see how totally lost I am.

So, the moment a certain skill from the list damages a monster, it prevents every other skill on the list from hitting the said monster for the original skill's NextDelay duration (whether from you or any other character).

If I charge CoT (2 hits) then Phoenix (2 hits) and release with Claw, then I shouldn't be taking the next delay penalty right?

If that's wrong, what would be the right order to charge those?

[BIGeyedBUG]

I read both FAQs and so let's see how totally lost I am.



If I charge CoT (2 hits) then Phoenix (2 hits) and release with Claw, then I shouldn't be taking the next delay penalty right?

If that's wrong, what would be the right order to charge those?

Unless you release them separately, it's the same either way. You'll lose some amount of damage occasionally because of NextDelay. You'd lose more total damage potential if you were getting the Charged Bolts in there too.

It's not really possible to quantify "how much" in either case unfortunately.

I think also the description of NextDelay you quoted is probably confusing. By "hits" it doesn't mean your attacks, but rather the attack effects themselves. So the timer is counted from the moment your CoT Nova (for instance) contacts a particular monster, not from your DC release, much less your charge-up hits.

I hope that's less confusing, though that seems doubtful. :prop:

[Ballstone]

Excerpt from skygoneblue's PS build...

Pick off a monster on the side of the group by charging up Claws of Thunder. Quickly switch to Phoenix Strike and get another charge for a meteor (remember the Next Delay). Follow this all up by Dragon Clawing a fresh enemy in the middle of the blinded pack and releasing elemental Hell on the whole group.

This is how he avoids the next delay. Instead of charging CoT then releasing and charging CoT again and getting the next delay penalty, he switches from CoT to PS. Seems simple enough.

If I'm reading it right, you could do 3 charges of CoT and 3 charges of PS with no next delay penalty.

[RTB]

No, if you have 3 charges of CoT, some missiles will miss due to nextdelay, PS charge 1 has nothing to do with it.

[BIGeyedBUG]

Hey, I'm directly to blame for everything sky wrote in that guide about NextDelay. :laugh:

Sky's example is different than yours because along with CoT he uses the Meteor. CoT charges 2 and 3 have ND associated with them, but Phoenix1 does not. So there's no chance of interference between the two skills. (Though technically there still is between CoT2 and CoT3.)

Only the second and third charges of both skills have associated NextDelay.

[Ballstone]

Ah. So I could spam Meteor all over the place AND/OR repeatedly nail a boss with 1st charge of CoT. All ND free.

Later in sky's guide he gives the example of how his assn with 3 charges of CoT and 2 of PS deals out 657-14,000 lightning damage. Next delay reduces the effects a little, but that's still an amazing amount of damage!!

[BIGeyedBUG]

Ah. So I could spam Meteor all over the place AND/OR repeatedly nail a boss with 1st charge of CoT. All ND free.

That's correct. You could do the same thing with CoT2 *or* Phoenix2 with no problem either. Both at the same time is where you would encounter the issue, mostly. (Phoenix2's long travel time and path back to the release point complicates things actually, but it's not worth fretting over.)

To put it a little differently, you always need at least -two- NextDelay effects interacting to have an issue with it, though they don't have to be -different- effects.


Later in sky's guide he gives the example of how his assn with 3 charges of CoT and 2 of PS deals out 657-14,000 lightning damage. Next delay reduces the effects a little, but that's still an amazing amount of damage!!It's good enough to get the job done, that's for sure. If you take the time charging it up to get that result into account however, it's outclassed by many other skills. Nothing in D2 beats it for fun though.