View Full Version : Thoughts on Maphack
Gandolph
20-06-2007, 14:26
Just wondering peoples thoughts on this. I'm only talking about the map feature itself, not any of the other exploits.
My thoughts: I know it is considered cheating because it isn't part of the game supplied by Blizzard. However, I don't feel that having a map is necessarily a bad thing. The game is very repetitive. The maps vary from game to game. This could be fun for those who want to kill everything in their path, but for those who are just trying to get to Baal or Nilithak, I think it's unreasonable to believe that they shouldn't know the way. We use maps in our daily lives, why not here? It's only a map and doesn't give any advantage to the player. In fact, a player with Enigma and no maphack will still beat a player without Enigma to any location.
Not quite as heated a discussion as dupes, but I just wondered where people stood.
If it doesn't give an advantage, why would you need it?
Either it does, and then it's cheating, or it doesn't, and then there is no reason for you to install it.
it is a hack/cheat/exploit
it gives an unfair advantage to those that use it, the same arguments can be used for bots and bot followers
those that know how maps are generated can easily run bosses as fast as those that use mh
tower is easy, the exit always points 90º clockwise from the entrance path
nih is easy too, there are only 3-4 maps, and nih is always directly across from the champions
who needs mh for finding diablo? :laugh:
I have a shameful confession to make. I've used maphack.
Years ago, before I even owned a legit copy of D2, I got it from a friend along with some hack to make it work without the CDs. The hack contained a maphack, which I didn't even know at the time: I thought it was how the map was supposed to behave. I could see all monster locations, which enabled me to find and kill them faster.
For the record, I only played SP then, and got bored with it fairly quickly. I ended up deleting the hack and the game, and two years ago I bought it legitimately and started playing on bNet. I've sinned, but I have redeemed myself by paying my tithe to Blizzard - and by having a honorable career online ever since I got there.
Being able to see on the map where the monsters are would be quite nice in my opinion, but I don't really care for seeing the maps revealed - I don't do Mephisto runs anyway, which is the place where it would be most useful. These days I wouldn't touch any type of hack with a ten-foot-pole, since they're likely to cost me my account or even my CD key.
TurbulentTurtle
20-06-2007, 15:24
Well the thing is, Blizzard has been making adjustments to the game so that we play them through normally with friends and stuff and not just rush through the game and power level in Baal games or whatever. I think that's one of the reasons why they make the first boss drop have a chance of dropping a better item than all the other drops you're gonna get from constantly farming.
Also why they made the 10 day expiry thing for the new characters, it's so you don't just MF and collect items and make mules to store them in. Blizzards expects you to actually play the game through normally and kill everything in your way. If you had maphack, it pretty much goes against what they were trying to do with the no farming of bosses for items and stuff.
I have a shameful confession to make. I've used maphack.
I have sinned as well dude, like you, many moons ago...1.07 i think...
Being able to see on the map where the monsters are would be quite nice in my opinion, but I don't really care for seeing the maps revealed - I don't do Mephisto runs anyway, which is the place where it would be most useful. These days I wouldn't touch any type of hack with a ten-foot-pole, since they're likely to cost me my account or even my CD key.
But i feel the opposite to you...i'd like to see the rough idea of the map and not what you will encounter along the way; you enter say, the Crystalline Passage, you can see on the map 2 locations where you can depart this area (Frozen River and Glacial Trail...they look the same...might not work for Underground Passage for instance) but you don't know which is which or the twists, turns and monster encounters on the way...just a rough idea of which direction to head which has a 50/50 chance of the way you want to go (think Durance 1 or 3 if running Meph) saving a bit of time on your journey and the map retains a bit of ambiguity and fun for you...from a narrative standpoint talking to NPC's might garner some folklore/legend as to what a brave adventurer might have encountered while journeying in such locations which might be roughly pinpointed on a map for you...does that seem weird or maybe it's the way i'm wording it?!
Thoughts...
dk
EDIT: Turbulent Turtle raises an excellent point there...Hell is hard and to me looks like it's been designed for working as a big balanced team to do it with average gear...not using duped runewords and being able to walk it solo...although it is nice to be powerful and have the ability to solo...not saying i advocate duped runewords though!
sirmessbu
20-06-2007, 15:32
If it doesn't give an advantage, why would you need it?
Either it does, and then it's cheating, or it doesn't, and then there is no reason for you to install it.
:thumbsup: Totally express my mind on subject.
@ Gandolph : I believe you simply need to justify the need of using MH to yourself, please refrain from using our trading forums if do use it.
It doesn't matter how many of these threads pop up, and there have been many, it'll never be acceptable here. I thought that was painfully obvious already yet I still see these threads being created. It's a third party program(it's a friggin' hack already!) and violates Blizzard's ToS and you'll eventually get banned for using it. That is, if the keylogger doesn't get you first. :rolleyes: Why anyone would want to take the chance is beyond me.
It would be cool if in the next patch they made it so that you could buy a map of Durance level 2 in town for a bit of gold or something. :)
BobTheWarrior
20-06-2007, 15:56
I'm conflicted on the whole maphack issue. I, personally, would never use it, but only because it might (will) get me banned. However, I appreciate it's value in accelerating baal runs. I have joined a pub run or two where the runner openly admitted having maphack, and the runs were very fast and efficient. It maximized my time spent playing (and not standing around waiting for a TP), and therefore my enjoyment of the game for that evening.
I have also played in groups of high-level characters where the runner said they didn't use maphack, and were just as efficient as those using maphack.
I have also played with groups that don't have maphack, and don't know the maps, and take forever to find the throne. :grrrr: And, I've been one of the runners that has taken forever to find the throne. :laugh: :embarassed: Those runs are not enjoyable, and I usually go and search out another runner/group.
It's Blizzard's fault for making certain aspects of the game require running the same area over and over and over (is there any way to get to level 99 without doing so?)
I liken it's use to those that play in SP games. Once the map is known, it's known. Granted, there are certain things that can be done to erase/reset the map, but if you avoid those, you can run areas very fast, as you know exactly where to go. (Does Mh show the enemy locations too? I don't know, never seen it...)
Why should Bnetters have to re-explore a dungeon every time, when SP'ers don't? If Blizzard would allow maps to remain known, then there's no longer a need for Mh.
It doesn't matter how many of these threads pop up, and there have been many, it'll never be acceptable here. I thought that was painfully obvious already yet I still see these threads being created. It's a third party program(it's a friggin' hack already!) and violates Blizzard's ToS and you'll eventually get banned for using it. That is, if the keylogger doesn't get you first. :rolleyes: Why anyone would want to take the chance is beyond me.
When i first saw the title for this thread my reaction was similar to yours rykuss but when i read Gandolph's post and rationalised his reasons for discussion i threw in my $0.02...i totally agree that maphack should NOT be used as it violates the User Agreement etc but it stirred ideas (in me and others) about how the map could be tweaked to reveal a bit more, not a great deal, just a bit...
Gandolph
20-06-2007, 16:08
Sirmessbu: Sorry. I should clarify. I'm not saying I use it. Similar to the dupe topic on this forum, I'm simply asking for opinions. By your statement, everyone who posted on the dupe topic should never trade here either.
Anyway, I guess I misstated my thought on the subject. I do realize it is a cheat/hack (which I did say). What I meant by not giving an advantage was in PvP. One player with MH would not have any advantage over one without.
Ken's points are spot on (no surprise there). However, my opinion is that if it Blizzard finally found the 'magic bullet' and eliminated all bots/hacks, not only would it eliminate those that use them, but many people who have participated in Baal/Chaos runs to level their chars would simply stop playing due to the repetitive nature of the game.
The plus side of that is that the games would no longer crash and you would see a lot more team play because that would be the only way to level.
I actually think it's funny that people seem more passionate about MH than they are about dupes. The dupe thread pretty much says, "Ya, they are bad, but we need them and Blizzard 'requires' them". Too funny.
It would be cool if in the next patch they made it so that you could buy a map of Durance level 2 in town for a bit of gold or something. :)
I really like this idea.
Why should Bnetters have to re-explore a dungeon every time, when SP'ers don't? If Blizzard would allow maps to remain known, then there's no longer a need for Mh.
I played on Battle.net for years, I was able to make several 100% legit self found godly runewords, found many more elite uniques(things people who've played from release still haven't found) and beat the game countless times. I did so without a maphack. *gasp*
Battle.net vs. Single Player? Apples and oranges. :rolleyes: Blizzard's fault? Now you're just grasping. :confused2:
I played on Battle.net for years, I was able to make several 100% legit self found godly runewords, found many more elite uniques(things people who've played from release still haven't found) and beat the game countless times.:
Are you saying that you yourself have found several HRs? Enough to make several godly runewords? I've playing on and off for several years and I have found 1 Vex, my only ever HR. I find it hard to believe that you have found enough to make several godly runewords. You must be the luckiest D2 player on earth.
THD-Mark
20-06-2007, 16:37
i never used it but was lucky enough to see a friend of mine use it when i went to his house, what it gives is actually quite remarkable, you can view others items, all items dropped are shown in different ways it tells you how many sockets a weapon/armor/shield has when its laying on the floor, you can scroll your view and extend it by about 1 or 2 screens, not only this it gives all the unique monsters all runes dropped are shown in a different colour (not white) there are alot of bonuses to mh and its very efficiant but totally pointless why would someone want to cheat at this kind of game, maybe to get your level's and mf a bit but why cant you just do it yourself with a bit more time otherwise what else you gonna di with this spare time?
im actually quite proud of myself for not turning over to the darkside and using mh but the experience was exciting
Mark
drconfused
20-06-2007, 16:42
I definetly dont support the use of maphack, I think it is for lazy people and promotes the impatience we see so prevalent on b.net...
before coming on b.net I had used some 3rd party programs to cheat on sp and played for about a week andt han removed the game from my computer, it got so boring and the fun edge was removed. So I wont use any 3rd party program again.
Allthough I think it would be cool if the existing map also worked as an existing radar (which could be tweake on and off) so you could see the monsters that are in you line of site (even the ones off screen)..
I have been playin b.net now for about a month and a 1/2 to 2 months and have found 2 hr allready, a jah in wsk and an ohm off trav.. So it is perfectly feasable that a long time player who has put in ungodly amounts of hours into the game could find numerous hrs in their D2 carreer.
Anyway, I guess I misstated my thought on the subject. I do realize it is a cheat/hack (which I did say). What I meant by not giving an advantage was in PvP. One player with MH would not have any advantage over one without.
You mean aside from the fact that they can see your gear and see opponents from a farther distance away?
I actually think it's funny that people seem more passionate about MH than they are about dupes. The dupe thread pretty much says, "Ya, they are bad, but we need them and Blizzard 'requires' them". Too funny.
Considering you stand on two different sides of these issues, why do you find that "funny." By that reasoning alone, they are obviously two very different, independent topics. The only way the two discussions could be comparable would be if, without maphack, it would take you the next 5 years to find mephisto. Then we'd be on the same page.
It's obviously a hack/exploit. Many of the maps have recurring patterns, meaning it (knowing the map patterns) is one of the few things in the game that is rewarding for dedicated and attentive players (skill).
Now, all that being said, do I think having some maps or rough outlines would be a bad thing? No, not really. Actually giving us a reason to listen to the crap NPCs said for vague directions as MrKaxe suggested or actually giving gold a purpose for map vendors as has previously been suggested might not be a bad idea. However, there is a big difference between a game feature and a hack. If blizzard adds it, I won't complain but I've got most of the map patterns for WSK, durance, and the tower memorized anyway.
*Finding a HR is one thing (extremely lucky no less) but finding enough for several godly runewords is pretty hard to imagine. If true, someone doesn't sleep or work. Either that or they are extremely lucky. As in, I won the lottery 8 times lucky. Having a game which should rely on challenge and skill, to instead rely totally on luck is a bit odd. By the way, a mal is not a HR, although it is a good find and rarely drops.
Gandolph
20-06-2007, 16:54
I have been playin b.net now for about a month and a 1/2 to 2 months and have found 2 hr allready, a jah in wsk and an ohm off trav.. So it is perfectly feasable that a long time player who has put in ungodly amounts of hours into the game could find numerous hrs in their D2 carreer.
That's impressive. I've found a total of 3 hrs in the 4+ years I've been playing. 2 mals and a vex. Persistence and luck do pay off.
i never used it but was lucky enough to see a friend of mine use it when i went to his house, what it gives is actually quite remarkable, you can view others items, all items dropped are shown in different ways it tells you how many sockets a weapon/armor/shield has when its laying on the floor, you can scroll your view and extend it by about 1 or 2 screens, not only this it gives all the unique monsters all runes dropped are shown in a different colour (not white) there are alot of bonuses to mh and its very efficiant but totally pointless why would someone want to cheat at this kind of game, maybe to get your level's and mf a bit but why cant you just do it yourself with a bit more time otherwise what else you gonna di with this spare time?
im actually quite proud of myself for not turning over to the darkside and using mh but the experience was exciting
Mark
I guess I didn't realize that MH did things other than revealing the map. That totally changes the flavor of the discussion and justifies people's hostility towards MH users.
Silent Shaddow
20-06-2007, 16:57
Maphack breaks the End User Lisence Agreement
does that tell you something?
Gandolph
20-06-2007, 17:07
So, since dupes don't break the EULA, that makes them OK? I totally get that it's a hack and that it's bad. I don't advocate it and that's not what this thread was for. I was just curious because after reading the dupe thread, it seemed that people were pretty indifferent to them and actually felt like they were a necessary evil to make the game playable. MH seemed like a pretty innocuous mod, so I just wondered what peoples thoughts were.
I guess I expected some of the people who tried to justify dupes to explain their justification of MH, but from what I'm reading there isn't any justification. Thank you all for your input. I found the posts very informative and I hope nobody is harboring any ill will toward me for asking the question.
I don't harbor much ill will to people on the internet. That would be too tiresome.:grin:
As pointed out already, the two topics are similar but different. It doesn't take you years to find mephisto. Blizzard built the economy on dupes and the implementation of dclone and new runewords seems to prove it. The diablo economy is reliant on these runes. Even diabloii.net recognizes that trading these runes is an integral part of the economy. I've read more than once from a mod that the justification for trading runes on diabloii.net is that our trading community would collapse otherwise. They simply are, and always will be, a part of the D2 economy. Blizzard realizes that too. They have to.
This discussion was better suited in the other thread though. I'm not sure where it first started in this thread.
THD-Mark
20-06-2007, 17:22
of course not my friend questions are here to be answered as is food meant to be eaten
After 7 years, I really do not see the problem with using maphack, or any other "similar" program that "enhances" gameplay or provides extra options. Let's face the facts, after a given amount of time the novelty wears off and all people do is runs (Keys, Baal, Countess) or trade. I just never seen how using maphack is a disadvantage to others. Fact is Blizzard has not released an addon (LOD) since what, 2001? No user created maps or mods allowed, so the fact is, this game gets very old quickly. If people find using maphack to enhance their gameplay, then fine. This is after all just a game, meant for fun.
Dawnmaster
20-06-2007, 22:36
After 7 years, I really do not see the problem with using maphack, or any other "similar" program that "enhances" gameplay or provides extra options. Let's face the facts, after a given amount of time the novelty wears off and all people do is runs (Keys, Baal, Countess) or trade. I just never seen how using maphack is a disadvantage to others. Fact is Blizzard has not released an addon (LOD) since what, 2001? No user created maps or mods allowed, so the fact is, this game gets very old quickly. If people find using maphack to enhance their gameplay, then fine. This is after all just a game, meant for fun.
I virtually never trade, I still enjoy the sensation of making new characters, trying out weird challenges and going through the game without help, I lost count of the number of times I refused a rush :laugh:
I've never needed MH, part of getting through the levels is discovering the way, it would be like skipping all the chitchat and presents and phonecalls and instantly have an uber girlfriend, such relationship would have no value, you didn't earn it, you didn't work for it, you just got it for free.
I do accept a little free sometimes, I'm only human, but mostly, I try to have fun with what the game is, if you don't like it, and need MH to improve your fun, then play Singleplayer, and use a mod orso?
it would be like skipping all the chitchat and presents and phonecalls and instantly have an uber girlfriend, such relationship would have no value, you didn't earn it, you didn't work for it, you just got it for free.
Free? Oh no, they pay the price of never knowing when they will get a nasty surprise plus a small monetary charge. We call those prostitutes. :azn:
*Agreed, if you want to hack and mod play on SP or openbnet.
I virtually never trade, I still enjoy the sensation of making new characters, trying out weird challenges and going through the game without help, I lost count of the number of times I refused a rush :laugh:
I've never needed MH, part of getting through the levels is discovering the way, it would be like skipping all the chitchat and presents and phonecalls and instantly have an uber girlfriend, such relationship would have no value, you didn't earn it, you didn't work for it, you just got it for free.
I do accept a little free sometimes, I'm only human, but mostly, I try to have fun with what the game is, if you don't like it, and need MH to improve your fun, then play Singleplayer, and use a mod orso?
I'm like you. The reason why I play d2 is to try new builds and try how far I can go. I hate rushes and I mostly play by myself or in a small non-rush party. I have never felt the need for mh and I have never tried anything 3rd party. I'm content with what I got in the package. :thumbsup:
partytimeninja
20-06-2007, 23:02
It makes me laugh to see how many people here consider using more of their time on this video game "honorable" and shun those who choose not to. I see the choice between playing with maphack and not as merely one of preference, not good versus evil.
It makes me laugh to see how many people here consider using more of their time on this video game "honorable" and shun those who choose not to. I see the choice between playing with maphack and not as merely one of preference, not good versus evil.
It's a violation of the EULA, plain and simple. The realms are intended to be clean and are there for a challenge. Bots make the time invested in the game less as well but it's still wrong to do so when you are playing in an integrated community. Bots just save you more time than maphack, logical rationalization....but still wrong. A mortal sin? No, it is just a game. However, if you want to hack to your heart's content SP would be a better place for you.
It makes me laugh to see how many people here consider using more of their time on this video game "honorable" and shun those who choose not to. I see the choice between playing with maphack and not as merely one of preference, not good versus evil.
Why not have char and item editors then? It saves you a lot more time than maphack.
Maphack allows for faster MF/key runs giving an advantage in obtaining items.
partytimeninja
20-06-2007, 23:30
It's a violation of the EULA, plain and simple. The realms are intended to be clean and are there for a challenge. Bots make the time invested in the game less as well but it's still wrong to do so when you are playing in an integrated community. Bots just save you more time than maphack, logical rationalization....but still wrong. A mortal sin? No, it is just a game. However, if you want to hack to your heart's content SP would be a better place for you.
I'd say this goes back to the acceptance of dupes argument.. If Blizzard wanted to discourage this type of gaming, they should've made drops a more general thing, instead of pumping the drop potential of a few specific runs. Or found a better way to eliminate hacks and those that use them. Blizzard has done very little to preserve pure gaming for those that want it.. and, by doing nothing, has encouraged hackers/dupers, and made these commonplace throughout Bnet. Overpowering certain rare uniques and making it possible for them to drop only through repeatedly running certain monsters... seems exactly like making runes in the most powerful runewords impossible to drop. Why has duping, then, been accepted as a necessary evil, while Maphack/botting has not?
And I don't support unlimited hacking... I apologize for the loose wording of my first post. What I should have said - it is not holier to find maps on your own, as I can't consider using my time to find these maps, while already wasting it on this game, a good investment. For me, this applies only to maps. You can keep your own morals for this game... it is, after all, just a game. Those that break the rules accept the risks.
Stompwampa
21-06-2007, 02:51
Why has duping, then, been accepted as a necessary evil, while Maphack/botting has not?
Because duping doesn't break the law. Hacking/botting does. And those who hack/bot do so for selfish gain. Dupers do it mainly to trade, which contributes back to the community in a twisted sort of way.
partytimeninja
21-06-2007, 03:02
Maphack users/Botters don't trade :shocked: ? And, obviously, the dupers are doing it for the benefit of the greater community, and would never be motivated by increasing their own personal DII wealth by trading the dupes.
Who finds the perfect coa's, griffons, etc. etc., to dupe in the first place? My bet is on Botters.. a completely "legit" (no hacks, bots, etc.) player has a MUCH lower chance of finding such an item, and even less chance of duping it or trading it.
Verashiden
21-06-2007, 03:14
You're missing the bigger picture. Sure, Map Hack doesn't do a [whole] lot in DII. But what about SC? Or WC? Map Hack completely breaks the game into the users favor. That alone is reason enough to ban it.
Leohappy
21-06-2007, 04:02
maphack is a cheat that needs to be banned from d2
as many of you know, it doesn't just reveal maps, but also monsters and other players (at long range), which can be abused in pvp as well
it definitely gives a lot of (unfair) advantages to the player
I can't help but LOL hard at how people have these crazy moral objections to maphacks. I use them...does that make me a bad player?
Guess what mine does? It reveals the whole map for me to run somewhere, MAN! I'm really ruining the economy by doing it too right?
And unless someone is botting to get to 99 and beat everyone else, why would it matter if they mf with it? I don't bot personally because I like finding items on my own.
Maphack is by far the least hack I have ever seen.
SlayMinder
21-06-2007, 04:33
Well the thing is, Blizzard has been making adjustments to the game so that we play them through normally with friends and stuff and not just rush through the game and power level in Baal games or whatever. I think that's one of the reasons why they make the first boss drop have a chance of dropping a better item than all the other drops you're gonna get from constantly farming.
Also why they made the 10 day expiry thing for the new characters, it's so you don't just MF and collect items and make mules to store them in. Blizzards expects you to actually play the game through normally and kill everything in your way. If you had maphack, it pretty much goes against what they were trying to do with the no farming of bosses for items and stuff.
I feel like I've noticed this. Waypoints and entrances tend to be closer together. I haven't really struggled to find a waypoint in a while, whereas I recall really having to comb some areas to find them. Although you can really get to know areas well once you've played them over and over again. I find the act 1 jail pretty predictable.
EDIT: I didn't realize there was a legitimate debate on maphack going on here. I can't believe this is still an argument. Maphacking is cheating, obviously that's not challengable. Its a bad cheat too, not just because it dumbs down your gaming skills or gives you an unfair advantage that magically topples the mysterious Diablo 2 economy, or even because so many people that use it end up getting bored with the game extremely quickly. Its a bad cheat because you remove the element of surprise and discovery out of the game completely, relegating your game experience into a farce of what Blizzard designed it to be. If you're in a rush to find someplace, you're almost definitely focusing on the superficial elements of the game; finding items, leveling, and doing both fast. And really, thats pretty boring.
kidsmokin
21-06-2007, 04:41
What about the maphacks that are designed to only reveal the maps, but none of the other stuff involving the items and enemies?
I feel like those don't warrant the hatred that the more "full" versions do...
Leohappy
21-06-2007, 04:50
I can't help but LOL hard at how people have these crazy moral objections to maphacks. I use them...does that make me a bad player?try not to mention this too much on these forums or you'll be banned
What about the maphacks that are designed to only reveal the maps, but none of the other stuff involving the items and enemies?
does the nitpicking really matter? full map still shows you the shortest route to target and that's cheating, because it still takes legit people more time to reach it which means the danger is more as well
Are you saying that you yourself have found several HRs? Enough to make several godly runewords? I've playing on and off for several years and I have found 1 Vex, my only ever HR. I find it hard to believe that you have found enough to make several godly runewords. You must be the luckiest D2 player on earth.
Did my post not cover this sufficiently already? Yes, I was very lucky. Your results may vary? Geeze. :rolleyes:
Define "godly runeword". I made a legit "Beast" Berserker Axe, legit ethereal "Death" Berserker Axe, a legit ethereal "Oath" Scourge, several legit "Duress" armors, found 2x 2os CoA's, a Stormlash and a Mang Song's all in the first year of this season. I also consider "Lionheart" to be godly, especially for the runes. Yeah it's hard to find/make things like that, not impossible. Sometimes boring and repetetive, yes. It's all in how you play and knowing where to run. Oh and twelve hour a day play sessions don't hurt either.
Oh and to reiterate what I said already, I did it without hacks and cheats. So this crap about needing them to play the game does grind on my nerves, quite a bit actually.
FrankWest
21-06-2007, 05:14
I use them...does that make me a bad player?
It makes you a cheater in violation of Blizzard's terms of service. If you see that as being bad, then yep. You're bad. If you don't, then there's really no point in trying to change your mind.
We've always been a bit of a haven from cheaters and hackers, which is something that keeps most of us coming back - it's refreshing to know you're part of a hack-free community. Using maphacks (or any other 3rd party programs) and trading on these forums is a permanent ban from the forums.
I bought D2 to have fun. If using MH makes it more fun for me, then I'll use it.
Kudos for you on wanting to be a noob if you do use mh.
I don't want to be a noob, I want to have fun. You seem to have difficulty grasping a fairly simple concept. Being called a "noob" by some players would be a side effect, not the intent.
Not all rules in life are important to follow, especially if your intention is to win or have fun. To win, you almost always have to "cheat" at some level, and to really have fun, you often have to break rules intended to constrict actions. If I'm playing volleyball with some friends to enjoy ourselves, we're not going to throw a hissy fit if one side hits the ball 4 times before it goes across. There are times when rules are important, and times when they are not.
I love it when they openly admit to it
And a person who doesn't understand English tenses. I actually think MH decreases the enjoyment of the game as I almost always prefer to simply play it through start to finish with various characters, and MH just makes you rush through things that otherwise would be fun. If you have fun playing PvP, though, I could understand using MH to get your character rushed faster. I hate PvP because all I do is die, so rushing doesn't really matter that much to me.
Heh, double pre-response. This thread is moving fast.
I can't help but LOL hard at how people have these crazy moral objections to maphacks. I use them...does that make me a bad player?
Guess what mine does? It reveals the whole map for me to run somewhere, MAN! I'm really ruining the economy by doing it too right?
And unless someone is botting to get to 99 and beat everyone else, why would it matter if they mf with it? I don't bot personally because I like finding items on my own.
Maphack is by far the least hack I have ever seen.
~Wolf Snarl~
Yes , Yes Sir it does make you a bad player.
Exspect to be banned from forums for admitting you use it if someone reports you.
I bought D2 to have fun. If using MH makes it more fun for me, then I'll use it.
Kudos for you on wanting to be a noob if you do use mh.
~Wolf Snarl~
Yes , Yes Sir it does make you a bad player.
Exspect to be banned from forums for admitting you use it if someone reports you.
Kudos for you on wanting to be a noob if you do use mh.
Already taken care of. I love it when they openly admit to it and then have the nads to trade here.
feartheterp03
21-06-2007, 05:32
How does it make him a noob at all? I personally don't use Maphack, but couldnt care a less about people who do. It makes the game more enjoyable for them, not me. They didnt buy the game thinking "Wow, I'm gonna buy this and play online while trying to make everyone else online happy". They got it to have fun. If maphack makes it more fun for them, so be it.
FrankWest
21-06-2007, 05:35
Exspect to be banned from forums for admitting you use it if someone reports you.
Yeah, I hit the exclamation point on his post before I posted my reply - I give him points for coming out and admitting it, but nowhere near the points immediately lost by cheating in the first place.
But then I'm kind of a stick in the mud, to put it mildly. :heart:
If maphack makes it more fun for them, so be it.
No one here can tell anyone else how to play the game, but people who use hacks and trade on these forums get permanently banned. And people who use hacks and get caught by Blizzard are dealt with accordingly, as well. No one HERE can say "this is the only course of action you may take", but the Moderators enforce the rules, the rules mirror those of Blizzard (to keep us from being like some of the 'other' forums out there), and Blizzard gets final say on what's allowed and what's not. It's their product, they make the rules on how it's allowed to be used and what is and what is not allowed to be used WITH it.
This is a community whose every member agrees to follow the rules, that's one of the main conditions for joining the forums.
Although maphacks are no doubt actually hacks, I don't believe that they are legitimate "game-ruining" hacks.
I've never duped or botted and have found all my items straight through magic finding. What did map hacks do for me? They let me finish the run a few seconds faster.
I know what your thinking, why not spend the few seconds then? Well why speed when your driving. Who doesn't go 5 over the limit when driving? It doesn't make that much of a difference right? But it is nice.
Chances are anyways I won't be using maphacks on the new ladder season so all of you can be happy about that:wink3: <3
EDIT* I'd find it pretty ****ty to get banned from a forum for something like that. Maybe I don't really want to be part of a place that deals with something like this by banning people. It really takes the fun out of being here and talking to other experience players.
Not to mention people like rykuss have to be a complete ******* about it. I'm not some hoodlum of the diablo 2 community, i'm just another d2 player.
SlayMinder
21-06-2007, 05:56
I can't help but LOL hard at how people have these crazy moral objections to maphacks. I use them...does that make me a bad player?
Yeah. In addition, it also makes you a bad child, citizen and the principle driving force behind global warming.
I really don't find the supposed minimal impact that maphack has on the game a reason for its legitimacy. In the end, maphack is not about cheating other people. This isn't entirely true because of party play and trading and whatnot, but essentially when you log on to battle.net and start playing, whether someone else maphacks does not directly affect you. Nevertheless, that should not quench your conscience; instead your conscience should be even more pronounced. You're essentially cheating yourself. Its like cheating on a test. You know, you're not hurting anyone else, but please, is anyone here gonna advocate cheating on tests?
EDIT* I'd find it pretty ****ty to get banned from a forum for something like that. Maybe I don't really want to be part of a place that deals with something like this by banning people. It really takes the fun out of being here and talking to other experience players.
Experienced players will tell you that you don't need hacks and/or cheats. You must not care much about losing your accounts/items anyway. Have you not heard that these programs often contain keyloggers? Besides, Blizzard says it's a no-no. Why bother?
Not to mention people like rykuss have to be a complete ******* about it. I'm not some hoodlum of the diablo 2 community, i'm just another d2 player.
You've been talking to my wife haven't you? :tongue: So it won't make me popular. Do I care? No, not really. You did read the forums rules when you signed up, right? Heavy emphasis on the "Legit Community" part.
Yeah. In addition, it also makes you a bad child, citizen and the principle driving force behind global warming.
I really don't find the supposed minimal impact that maphack has on the game a reason for its legitimacy. In the end, maphack is not about cheating other people. This isn't entirely true because of party play and trading and whatnot, but essentially when you log on to battle.net and start playing, whether someone else maphacks does not directly affect you. Nevertheless, that should not quench your conscience; instead your conscience should be even more pronounced. You're essentially cheating yourself. Its like cheating on a test. You know, you're not hurting anyone else, but please, is anyone here gonna advocate cheating on tests?
I'm not saying it's ok to use. I'm saying that imho that I think its ok to use. I know it's not ok to use, and its against the eula.
By the way, it's pretty insulting for you to say something like im supporting global warming and that I'm a bad child. Have some respect for others. And by the way, even though I'm 16 I don't even have my license.
EDIT Rykuss i'm sure your a great person man, just an ******* thing to report someone for something like that imo. And I know that I'm risking my accounts and that there are possible risks. That's why I use the safest ones and make sure I know what I'm getting into.
I really don't want to sit and argue with people who are against it, that's how they play and I respect that.
FrankWest
21-06-2007, 06:15
Maybe I don't really want to be part of a place that deals with something like this by banning people.
If this were sprung on you all of a sudden, I'd understand. I'm just confused on why this reaction would surprise you - when you signed up, you clicked the box that says you read the rules of the forums. Using hacks and trading on the forums has always been a perma-ban. There are plenty of forums out there that don't give a lick about the rules, we're just not one of them. Again, there was a heads-up saying exactly that when you joined.
Zarniwoop
21-06-2007, 06:18
The more MF runs you do, the more phatz you get.
Its a serious advantage to be able to do your mf runs in half the time.
EDIT Rykuss i'm sure your a great person man, just an ******* thing to report someone for something like that imo. And I know that I'm risking my accounts and that there are possible risks. That's why I use the safest ones and make sure I know what I'm getting into.
I really don't want to sit and argue with people who are against it, that's how they play and I respect that.
Fair enough man, I hope (whether or not you get banned) that you get away from hacks/cheats.
Yeah. In addition, it also makes you a bad child, citizen and the principle driving force behind global warming.
I really don't find the supposed minimal impact that maphack has on the game a reason for its legitimacy. In the end, maphack is not about cheating other people. This isn't entirely true because of party play and trading and whatnot, but essentially when you log on to battle.net and start playing, whether someone else maphacks does not directly affect you. Nevertheless, that should not quench your conscience; instead your conscience should be even more pronounced. You're essentially cheating yourself. Its like cheating on a test. You know, you're not hurting anyone else, but please, is anyone here gonna advocate cheating on tests?
Uhh... What?!
If we were to assume global warming is proven and happening, the culprit would be those evil corporations... as they are the proven enemy in nearly all situations. Not your average DII map hack user!
Maybe you're suggesting people that cut corners cause global warming? I guess that would make a little bit of sense.. but it still doesn't really explain why people that use maphack cause global warming.
And comparing this game to real life is absolutely ridiculous. Cheating yourself... it's a game! I assume a decent portion of the D2 playing population can make the distinction between real life and a game.. and most are able to sufficiently weigh the benefits/detractions of maphack before they choose to use it. Your morals are not everyone's.
Posted by Rykus:
Oh and twelve hour a day play sessions don't hurt either.
Oh and to reiterate what I said already, I did it without hacks and cheats. So this crap about needing them to play the game does grind on my nerves, quite a bit actually.
What about people who want godly "legit" items and don't have 12 hours, or even more than a half hour or so a day, to do this? You're suggesting the only way you deserve to have good items in the game is dedicating a lot of your time to it? It's a game.. not real life. Most people don't agree with this - thus, the popularity of maphack.
More on topic.. I can understand immediately banning people on this forum who admit to using mh. It's part of what the community is. But this forum is the only place where "legit" players hold the moral high ground. Outside of here, Maphack is a choice. An "illegal" choice, but still a choice. Blizzard will be the ultimate judge of those that hack.. not any of you. Claiming that you are somehow better than mh users and that people who use hacks are newbs isn't really justifiable. If you don't agree with them (hack-users), that's fine. Attacking them accomplishes little.. I don't agree that mh decreases your in-game skill, either. What skill? Memorizing map patterns? Staying alive while moving around? Teleing in/out of bad situations? Killing ****? Anyone that plays Diablo develops these skills.
In short, save your judgments. Just ban/call for the banning of the people you don't want, and be done with it.
What about people who want godly "legit" items and don't have 12 hours, or even more than a half hour or so a day, to do this? You're suggesting the only way you deserve to have good items in the game is dedicating a lot of your time to it? It's a game.. not real life. Most people don't agree with this - thus, the popularity of maphack.
Tough luck? Yeah, that's pretty much Blizzard's take on it too. They want you to actually play the game. Silly game developers. :laughing:
I can't help but LOL hard at how people have these crazy moral objections to maphacks. I use them...does that make me a bad player?
Guess what mine does? It reveals the whole map for me to run somewhere, MAN! I'm really ruining the economy by doing it too right?
And unless someone is botting to get to 99 and beat everyone else, why would it matter if they mf with it? I don't bot personally because I like finding items on my own.
Maphack is by far the least hack I have ever seen.
You use maphack and our trade forums.
I'm sorry, but I cannot allow this.
People, please keep things civil or the thread will need to be locked.
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