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View Full Version : A Guide to Understanding the PvP Dreamer


Ouallada
10-06-2007, 04:12
1.0 Introduction:

A dreamer is, in this case, a paladin that relies on dual dream runewords (helm and shield), to stack two level 15 holy shock auras, giving a level 30 holy shock aura. Let us take a closer look at what a level 30 holy shock aura gives to us dreamers:

Radius: 23.3 yards
Lightning damage: 1 – 1668 lightning damage to your attack
Pulse lightning damage: 1 – 278

I know, it looks a little underwhelming and wimpy at the moment. Let me clarify a few things first. Any +skill items that you have, such as an annihilus charm, for instance, will not add to the holy shock level that the dual dreams give you. That means that the holy shock aura that you get is FIXED at level 30, no more, no less. Another common question is whether or not the holy shock auras can be synergized, because they are not the paladin’s own aura but given by items. The answer is a resounding yes, and as we move on to that portion of the guide, you will quickly see that the damage provided by the level 30 holy shock is not as wimpy as it looks. This guide is primarily for pvp, and I will answer questions about how to customize for players without access to expensive gear. Some of the gear listed here would be worth three figures of hrs on west easily, such as some of the rares you will see mentioned later.

2.0 Skills:
2.1 Necessary skills:

Like all other builds, a dreamer has necessary skills and non-necessary skills, meaning there is room for customization even within a narrow build. Take note of pre-requisites, which I will not mention.

1) Resist lightning (max) – This speaks for itself. It is a synergy for holy shock, and when maxed out, you get the following holy shock damage:

Lightning damage: 1 – 5761
Pulse lightning damage: 3 – 945

Not so wimpy now, is it? Wait, there is more to come.

2) Smite (1point +) – It is a pre-requisite. Some variants of dreamers will choose to add more to this skill. Will touch on this more later in the guide.

3) Charge (1point – max) - It is a pre-requisite, and also your main form of movement. You will be charging around very often. If you max it, charge will also be your killer skill.

4) Holy shield (max) – Why holy shield is necessary is obvious in a melee paladin. You will not have good defense if you do not max this, and holy shield gives you better smite damage as well. It is basically a trade-off between holy shield and smite for quite a few of your skill points. I will cover this in more depth in the PvP section of the guide.

5) Zeal (1point – max) – Like smite and holy shield, it will be a trade off between zeal and charge as your main form of attack. Both have their pros and cons. My personal preference is to choose charge as the main killer, and to have zeal as a backup, but I will discuss the most important trade-off this build has to make later in the pvp section.

6) Fanaticism (1point) – Fanaticism gives ed, ar and ias. This helps zeal and smite, particularly the latter. This is a must.

7) Conviction: (Add to level 25) – This will be the aura you have running most of the time. It gives – 92% defense and -150% resist all to your opponents. The reduced defense allows dreamers to hit most characters easily, while the huge reduction in resists ensures that whatever elemental damage is dealt will not be fully resisted.

2.2 Non-necessary skills:

This section will cover the rest of the skills that could be used, depending on your style.

1) Salvation: The second synergy that holy shock has. Consider using this to increase your holy shock damage further.

2) Might: A synergy for charge. Consider adding to this if you go down the charge route

3) Vigour: The second charge synergy. Has defiance as a pre-requisite, but is such a utility skill that the one extra point could be worth it.

4) Smite/Holy shield: If you are still stuck on the trade-off to be made between these two skills, you may want to dump spare points into these. They will help you when you need to smite, and that situation comes more often than you might think.

3.0 Stats:

Strength: Add enough to carry your most strength intensive gear. If a CoA were to be your most strength-intensive gear, then you should add only enough to hit 174 str. The lesser points into strength, the better.

Dext: Enough to hit 75% block. Use block calculators to calculate the amount of dexterity that is needed.

Vitality: Every single spare point should go into vita.

Energy: None should go in here.

4.0 Gear:

4.1 Helms: Only one real choice here. Dream helm, preferably made in a superior bone visage.

io + jah + pul
10% Chance To Cast Level 15 Confuse When Struck
Level 15 Holy Shock Aura When Equipped
+20-30% Faster Hit Recovery (varies)
+30% Enhanced Defense
+150-220 Defense (varies)
+10 To Vitality
Increase Maximum Life 5%
+0.625-61.875 To Mana (Based On Character Level)
All Resistances +5-20 (varies)
15-25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (varies)

4.2 Shields: Only one main choice. Dream made on a sacred targe with high inherent resists (40+, but 35+ will suffice). For both dreams, I stress that you should reroll them until you get good rolls. The dreams give you a lot of good modifiers, and it is better to roll until you get them from your primary pieces of equipment than to rotate charms or other gear to obtain certain breakpoints and resist stack. You should roll until you get at least the 48fhr breakpoint from both dreams alone, and you should get at least 28res all on the dreams, sacred targe resists notwithstanding. This is the bare minimum.

Other alternatives:

Stormshield (ber): At times, you will need dr, and your holy shock damage will be absorbed/stacked against, and this nice little shield allows you to obtain 38dr, while having block modifiers that allows you to maintain max block.

Sanctuary: This runeword should be made on a sacred targe, and should only be used in very extreme cases, such as when you are up against a doom-wielding blizzard sorc with a 20/20 shield.

4.3 Armours:

Chains of honour: Primarily used against casters. Gives great resists, 2 skills and 8dr.

Enigma: No guide is ever complete without having this as an option. They are extremely useful in certain duels, especially against bone necromancers who think nothing of spamming bone prison or bone wall. The 45frw does not hurt either, although it does not increase charge speed.

Lionheart: A cheaper alternative: Has strength, dext, life, vitality and resists to make it an extremely viable choice.

Shaftstop (ber): Your saving grace against melee. Providing a maximum of 38dr with a ber, up this armour and use this against melee characters.

4.4 Weapons:

Doom Zerk: This option works the best if you are going for an overall pub build, as the holy freeze aura gives you almost autowins against amazons, while stopping sorcs from running away after their energy shields have been depleted. As an added bonus, other opponents will find it hard to desync against you with holy freeze active, and as long as they do not stack, you should not be hit by any melee attack. Do note that salvation also synergises the holy freeze that doom provides. When rolling a doom, always aim for better –cold resists over ed.

Grief Zerk: You will need to smite when in melee dogfights, especially when you have been absorbed. This is the only real option you have. A pb works if you do not have any other ias, due to the ias that fanaticism gives, but a zerk has one extra range, which is important for both charging and smiting, as well as zealing where necessary.

Crescent Moon Zerk: A perennially overlooked weapon. This is the hardest hitting weapon you have in your arsenal, due to the -35% lightning resists that this runeword has. When used with conviction, it is not hard to see why it is going to be hard for opponents to stack against you. This weapon is the one of choice if you are primarily against casters.

Beast Zerk: Useful if you need confirmed hits against casters due to fanaticism’s ar, and a faster zeal, and if you want to turn into a bear for the fun of it. Can be useful if you need to charge and have a higher chance of hitting melee chars with high defense.

Rare Cruel/fool’s/ias weapons: Extremely rare and expensive, but very worth it if you have one. It will need to hit at least 5frame zeal with a 40/15 or a shael inside, depending on what other gear you use. The AR from fool’s is the single largest source of AR in the game, beside the complete angelic combo. This is useful for charging and zealing high defense characters. Barbs and paladins fall into this category, although this option is primarily for the former.

Glimmershred: A weapon of surprise. You will not be aiming to charge and hit with glimmershred, but very few people will be expecting this. As the damage from dream stacks onto this weapon, and with conviction lowering all resistances, it is hard to stack against glimmershred’s multiple sources of damage. A great form of surprise.

4.5 Amulet:

Mara’s Kaleidoscope: Almost no guide is complete without mentioning mara’s, and every non-fcr amulet will be compared to mara’s. 5 to all attribures, 2 skills and huge resists. There is nothing to dislike about this amulet.

Highlord’s wrath: If you want to use a grief zerk, consider using highlord’s. It has deadly strike, which means that you have more physical damage when you charge or zeal, has 20ias, which allows you to stack IAS to use a griefz to smite at the fastest possible speed. It adds lightning damage and resists to boot.

Metalgrid: My personal favourite: Better resists than mara’s, huge ar and huge defense, the latter two posing huge problems to dreamers in typical situations, means you kill not one, but three birds with this stone.

Rare ammy: A rare amulet could easily be better than mara’s, and you would be looking for a 2pally/high str and dex/life/mana/res amulet. They will be extremely hard to find, and extremely expensive though, but for those of you lucky enough to own one, this is the place for it to shine.

Angelic amulet: For angelic combo (one ring/ammy)

4.6 Belt:

Thundergod’s vigour: Strength, vitality, increased lightning resistances. These attributes makes this belt a very attractive belt.

Verdungo’s hearty cord: Huge vitality, fhr and up to 15%dr. This is an excellent belt indeed, and together with other gear choices, should give you maximum dr when you need it.

Arachnid’s mesh: Alright, which guide is complete without mentioning this? One to all skills, 20fcr for teleporting when enigma is switched in, plus some slow target to use in certain duels. A very attractive choice as well.

Rare belt: You would aim for a belt with 24fhr/25+str/50+life/res. These belts allow you to wear a lot of you more strength intensive gear without adding points, solves fhr problems and gives increased resists. The drawback? They can also be ridiculously expensive, and you can be dependent on them, meaning you NEED the strength on these belts to wear equipment. However, do not get me wrong. They are a fantastic option indeed. For those who dislike stashing, you may want to stick with such a belt.

Hsarus’ belt: For boot/belt combo.

4.7 Rings:

Ravenfrost: One ring needs to be a ravenfrost. Nothing more needs to be said. Try to get a 20dex one with as high AR as possible. The dex is needed for max block, while the AR is needed to solve a dreamer’s AR woes. Did I mention that they give you the “cannot be frozen” mod? Or very nice mana? Or cold damage? Enough said. You can even use dual ravenfrosts.

BK ring/SoJ: Once again, every guide needs to mention these. These will give you a higher BO, which translates into higher life, mana, defense, ar and so on. A BK would generally be better, because the extra life is more important.

Rare ring: IF, and that is a big IF, you have access to a AR/str/dex/life/mana ring, with high enough stats of each mod, use it. That is all that needs to be said. The AR you lose from a second ravenfrost will need to be made up elsewhere.

Angelic ring: For angelic combo.

4.8 Boots:

Waterwalks: 15dex, increased fire resists, 65 life, frw. What else could you want from boots? Ok, maybe fhr and tri-resists, but that is another story for another pair of boots. I strongly recommend these.

Sandstorm treks: Up to 15str and 15vita. Huge defense if eth. Up to 70poison resist. 20fhr. Brilliant pair of boots, if waterwalks were not so hard to beat. Give this serious consideration.

Shadow dancers: 25dex, 30frw, 30fhr. Wow, wow and WOW. If you decide to have your strength that high for whatever reasons, use these boots. If not for their strength requirements, they would be the best boots in the game.

Rare boots: Here we go again with the rares. Those of you who love to stack your resists higher than a pile of pancakes on Christmas eve could consider a pair of boots that has 10fhr/30frw/tri resists. Frw is not really necessary, but the rest are. A good pair would be ridiculously expensive, to the tune of a few hundred hrs (on west).

Hsarus’ Boots: For boot/belt combo.

4.9 Gloves:

Bloodfists: You get 40life, 30fhr and 10ias, all for a pair of gloves that cost a couple of pgems. There is nothing to complain about here.

Rare gloves: You would need a pair which has 20ias/highstr/highdex/res, and it would beat bloodfists most of the time.


4.10 Inventory:

Torch: Speaks for itself. As high as possible.

Annihilus: Speaks for itself. As high as possible.

Ar/life charms: Do not use plain ar charms. Use at least decent ar/life charms of any size to fill half your inventory. This is an ideal case. If you do not have ar/life charms, use what you have, and fill the spaces with 20life scs, and use the angelic combo.

Ar/other mod charms: As per ar/life charms. The other mods would be fhr, or perhaps frw, but the priority would be the former.

Resist/life charms: You will need enough resists from your charms and other gear to stack about 50 over for each element, which is really easy if coh and mara’s are used, for example. Any lacking resistances can be derived from charms. When I say 50 over, I mean 50 over whatever your max resists are for an element. If you have 80 fire resists, then you need to stack 50 more fire resist on top of the 80 max resist which you need. The same applies for the other elements.

Pcombs: Not very useful to this build, but you could use a couple with mods (life/fhr) to increase your defense, damage and ar.

Lightning damage/life scs: Only use scs for these. These should only be used if you have taken care of your other needs in the ar/resist department. Give quite a bit more damage with conviction on.

Stash:

From the above gear I mentioned, keep those that would suit your wants from this build the best and which you cannot fit into your primary build into the stash. This would include Griefz, for example, if you use crescent moon as the primary choice. Certain stash items should also be added, like snowclash against blizz sorcs, possibly hotspurs against fire sorcs if you wish, and so on.



5.0 PvM:

Leecher: Speaks for itself. Equip yourself with safety gear and leech. People will never make noise at you, because you are a walking act2 infinity merc who is not so stupid as to poke every oblivion knight you see in chaos.

Zeal: Equip crescent moon. Phase blade is better here, as you have better ias, indestructibility and most importantly, you deal low physical damage, and can survive iron maiden. Have smite to deal with ubers if you wish.

Charge: Difficult to use this in pvm, but have an A1 faith merc, and use conviction and grief to charge everything you see.

Gear changes for pvm: You may want to equip enigma for faster movement. Also, gore riders is useful for crushing blow against bosses and allows you to do ubers. Dracul’s grasp gives life tap as well as life leech for survivability in pvm, as well as great open wounds for bosses and uber.

Continued in next post.

Ouallada
10-06-2007, 04:18
Continued from first post.

6.0 PvP:
6.1 My own gear setup:

Take note that the following is tailored to my own style and equipment, and may not suit most of you.

Helm: Dream BV 15ed
Shield: Dream Sacred Targe
Amulet: Metalgrid Perd res, near perf ar
Armour: CoH dusk
Weapon: Doom Zerk, perf - cr
Rings: Dual ravenfrost (those on west should know that I have the required rare rings, but I felt that the AR from ravenfrost was too valuable. I’m using dual 20/249s.)
Belt: Tgod’s, perf
Gloves: Rare with 20ias/perf str/dex/dual res
Boots: 65life WWs
20 stat Ptorch/anni
Charms: 57% ar/life or fhr charms, 27% res/life or fhr charms, 7% light damage/life scs
Switch: Spirit and CtA (standard throughout)

You will need to have:
Max dr for melee matchups
At least 50 stacked resists for elemental matchups.
10-15k ar in certain melee matchups, and 20k ar in certain melee matchups
At least 48fhr. 86 is recommended.
You should try to hit 3400life at least. I personally run more than 4k.
Max block is a must.

6.2 Typical Caster setup:

Helm/shield: Dream
Amulet: Mara’s/metalgrid
Armour: CoH
Weapon: Crescent Moon
Rings: 1 x raven. Other ring up for customization.
Belt: Tgod’s/snowclash
Gloves: Rare glove or bloodfists. Not much difference here.
Boots: WWs or tri-res boots

6.3 Typical Melee setup:

Helm/Shield: Dream
Amulet: Mara’s/metalgrid/rare ammy/highlord’s
Armour: Ber shaftstop
Weapon: DoomZ/GriefZ/Rare weapon with fool’s/cruel/ias/glimmershred
Rings: Same as for caster. 1 x raven/other ring.
Belt: Dungo’s
Gloves: If you use bloodfists, use highlord’s. The rare gives you ias to smite with the griefz with fanaticism.
Boots: WWs, treks or dancer’s

6.4 Setup when you get sorbed:

Everything stays the same, but you may want to swap enigma in for tele-smiting. Swap out dream shield for stormshield to maintain max dr. griefZ is almost a must here. Charge where possible and get in close to smite when you can. Try to keep the dream helm on to fake your opponent that you are still running dual dreams so that they will stack on resists, while you go the melee route.

6.5 Against Amazons:

6.5.1 Bowazons:
Do not believe anyone who says that this is your easiest matchup. It is not. Auradins with holy fire/holy shock have it easy, but a well-built amazon can stack against conviction, and guided arrows hurt a lot. Desync around the amazon and use doom to slow her hit recovery and dodge motions. Outrun and dodge the guided arrows and go in for the kill. Throw in smites to dodge-lock the bowa and to do some easy damage. Is not your easiest matchup, but should still be easy if you know what you are doing. Bow/java hybrids are easier, because of what will be stated in the java section. Difficulty: 1.5/10

6.5.2 Javazons:
Most of these are CS zons. My typical dreamer build uses tgods and maxes resist lightning, giving me 95% lightning resists. The dreamer is without doubt the ultimate javazon killer. Just standing still and not attacking, with conviction off, my pulses kill javazons faster than they can kill me with CS. Feel free to use dreamers against farcasting zons, and watch them cry. This is your easiest matchup.
Difficulty: 1/10

6.5.3 Poison amazons:
Depending on whether they use arrows or javelins, treat them as normal bowazons or javazons, except that a poison bowazon is easier than a physical glass cannon bowazon, while a poison javelin zon is harder than a lightning javazon.
Difficulty (Poison bowazon): 1.25/10. Difficulty (Poison javazon): 1.25/10

6.6 Against Assassins:
6.6.1 Trapsins:
Besides lightning javazons, this is your easiest duel. Considering the fact that I can survive in a decked out trapsin’s traps + mb without attacking and without conviction for a couple of minutes, there is simply little way you can lose this. C/C sins cannot block aura pulses, while there is a slight delay even if they block your charges and smites. Simply charge them for the win.
Difficulty: 1/10

6.6.2 Ww/trap hybrids:
Obviously harder than a trapsin. You need to ensure that you are on walk instead of run for this one. Poor hybrids stay stationary in traps and mindblast/ww you when you enter. These are relatively easy. Charge diagonally in a random pattern to desync and to make it harder for the sin to predict where to intercept with ww, mindblast/psychic hammer. Get up close and personal whenever you can, but be patient to not charge into retreating WWs. Throw in several zeals from time to time as well.

For better hybrids, they will attack and press the issue. Try to walk out of mindblast, and remember that their traps will only be tickling you. Predict where they will tele to, and namelock charge when within half a screen. Do not namelock from miles away, as you could eat an intercepting or retreating WW. Keep your patience and charge only when walking is a poorer option, or where there is a chance to go in for a hit, like when the sin is on the move, walking or running. Be careful not to eat shuriken as well, as open wounds do hurt.
Difficulty: 2.5/10

6.6.3 Ghosts:
The most difficult assassin duel. Your high resistances do not matter in this one, as traps are only for stunning/ traplock. Having sandstorm treks or stacked poison resists is a good diea here. As always, watch for WW patterns. And rely a bit less on charge here. Do keep in mind that your pulses still cannot be blocked by a C/C sin, and their WWs are at range 2, while your zeals/smites/charges will be at range 3. Freely abuse holy freeze flashes in this one, while making very sure to walk and not run. Some sins also use BoS to cast traps, while casting fade at other times, so get closer for pulse damage if they ever cast BoS. C/C sins have poor resists, so abuse that fact.
Difficulty: 4/10

6.6.4 Kicksins:
Well, you can play like a zealot/smiter here. You can block kicks, and your resists are high enough to not take much elemental damage, besides poison from venom. Their chances of blocking smite/zeal are far lower than your chance to block kicks, plus you have the range advantage and damage advantage. At range, you should always come out on top due to a sin’s poor resists once again.
Difficulty: 3/10

6.7 Against Barbarians:
6.7.1 BvCs:
A tough battle awaits you. BvCs have high defense and AR, as well as naturally good resists (no pun intended on natural resistance). They do not have a range disadvantage, and leap is extremely irritating. As per wwsins, do not charge into a WW, especially if the barb is retreating. You should play like a smiter/zealot here and your AR needs to be at least 10k. Preferably 15k-20k. This is where your ar/life charms and all the gear aimed towards higher AR come in. Shift zeal at will. BVCs have several tricks, especially the good ones. They would not teleport on top of you normally, but do respond with a shift smite followed by a shift zeal if they do. Use holy freeze flashes at will, and watch out for irregular WW paths.

They could WW towards you just to veer off at the last moment, clipping you through WW’s superior number of hitchecks over zeal. If they WW straight at you and you feel that they would not be so silly as to WW through you, pick a side and sidestep towards that side so that the barb cannot clip you. You will need max DR for this battle, and it will still be tough.
Difficulty: 7.5/10

6.7.2 BvBs:
Same as BvBs, but usually with max block, compared to dual-wield BvCs. They have a ton of defense, so if you are going to zeal (zeal is superior to smite against BvCs, especially if you do not have enigma, but smite may be better against BvBs), make sure you get your ar higher than 20k. This is where that fool’s/cruel/ias weapon comes in very handy. Most will not have access to that, so angelic combo is a must here. The strategy works the same as against BvCs, but decide if you are going to zeal more or smite more, and stash accordingly.
Difficulty: 8/10

6.8 Against Druids:
6.8.1 Windy druids:
It keeps getting worse. This is by far the hardest of all your matchups due to cyclone armour and the fact that you cannot charge blindly at any druid who knows what he is doing. You can and will be eating 6+k tornados. Max DR is a must in this matchup. Get it from shaftstop, while charging around to kill the druid’s minions, especially the oak sage, while wearing cyclone armour down. Keep a tight leash on the druid, and force him to recast near to you. Never let a druid escape to recast.

Once cyclone armour is nearly depleted, charge towards the druid in a zigzag, seemingly random manner, namelock and charge. Smite at will if you connect. You will need grief here as well. This is harder than it seems, as the druid is constantly hurling 6+k tornados at your head, so it is important to charge from the side that the druid expects you least. Fake one side, and go the other or something. Just do not telegraph your arrival by charging straight.
Difficulty: 9.5/10

6.8.2 Melee druids:
Whore out your holy shock auras in this one, as well as use holy freeze liberally. Melee druids can lack resists at times, so make them come to you. You will need max dr in this one, as well as grief to smite them when they get in close. Do not charge blindly at them, as they typically use eth tomb reavers, which have a range of 4, while you have a range of 3. Still, the max block setups that they have count for nothing against smite. You could charge as well, but only at opportune times, like at close range when the druid has been fhr locked by smite and does not expect a charge.
Difficulty: 5/10

6.9 Against Necromancers:
6.9.1 Bone necros:
Bone armour is great against melee characters, but not against dreamers, as elemental damage passes right through. Bone necros that do not use wizzies tend to lack resists, so simply avoid the bone spirits/spears and see if that plan works. If it does, carry on. If not, or if you would like to get the battle over and done with quickly, desync around and wait for the necro to move or tele, and go in for the hit. Try not to hit the golem instead, as you will be slowed. Use crescent moon all the way on this, and you should be able to achieve a good number of 1hks.
Difficulty: 2/10

6.9.2 Summon necros:
Simple. Even if they get immune revives, nothing is immune to your pulses. Minion stack will not stop pulses from dealing him damage, and almost nothing is completely immune to your convicted pulses. Just do not allow the necro to tele on top of you too many times. At worst, wait for the revive time limit to end, and put the summoner out of his misery. At best, his revives drop quickly, as do his skeletons, so simply charge for the win.
Difficulty: 1.5/10

6.10 Against Paladins:
6.10.1 Zealots:
Smite away with max dr. Force their hand by using conviction first and make them stack. Smite them to death later.
Difficulty: 2.5/10

6.10.2 Hammerdins:
Another nightmare battle. You might win against hammerdins who do not stack enough resistances, but once they do, your basic only chance is to charge them from the south-west and smite. If they desync, use holy freeze to see where they are, and charge them from below. Hit and run on this. Make no mistake, you will need AR for this battle as well. You will need to be flawless in the way you dance with hammers, and only practice will give you that. The hdin, on the other hand, only needs to get lucky twice.
Difficulty: 8.5/10

6.10.3 Smiters:
Another tough battle, but easier than hammerdins. Max dr and grief are musts. Whore out conviction and holy shock liberally. Against smiters who do not stack, you will win without getting hit once. Against smiters who stack, use grief and smite. Hope that the sacrifices they made when they stacked their resistances give you a window of opportunity. Sacrifices like using salvation instead of fanaticism.

When they charge around, intercept their charges with your own. At certain times even if they are stationary, charge in, hit it, and get out much like you would treat a one-night stand at the local bar. Do not commit yourself here. Most smiters are lacking in resists and dr, and you should be able to take those easily, but when playing against the best smiters, it will be tough.
Difficulty: 6.5-7/10

6.10.4 Hybrids:
Some hybrids will be nightmares. I specifically look
Towards hammer based hybrids to being the toughest. Play liberators like you would play a hammerdin, except that liberators have lower stacked resists, but can have max dr and grief for smite. Mages have better resists, can force their conviction through, and have better hammer damage. Proceed with extreme caution. Play like you would play a hammerdin, but watch out for the foh/tele-hammer one-two punch. V/ts and T/vs are easier, as they will have similar resists as compared to a liberator, but without hammers to bail them out.
Difficulty (Libby): 7.5/10. Difficulty (Mage): 7.5-8/10. Difficulty (V/t): 7-7.5/10. Difficulty (T/v): 6.5-7/10

6.11 Against Sorceresses:
6.11.1 Fire sorc:
If you have hotspurs, I won’t bother explaining. If not, use Waterwalks and charge in increasingly tighter circles. Then, make it look as though you are charging in, but pull out midway. The sorc should tele defensively, so namelock and charge. She should be taken by surprise. You have a lot of leeway here, as fireballs are cumbersome unless at 200fcr, and you will not take much damage from them.
Difficulty: 2.5/10

6.11.2 Lightning sorc:
You have 95% lightning resists if you use tgods. Simply use crescent moon and joke about how electrifying the sorc looks. If you do not use tgods, simply treat the lightning sorc as a fire sorc with more cumbersome projectiles and a stronger ES. A sorc without ES will get slaughtered, simple as that.
Difficulty: 1.5/10

6.11.3 Cold sorc:
For both blizzers and orbers, snowclash is advised. If they use doom, you can even consider a sanctuary, although that is extreme. If not, simply avoid the main orb for orbers, and charge around and in at first opportunity. With crescent moon, it should be over in a couple or charges.

For a blizzer, they will typically cast blizzard over themselves. Simply charge around and with conviction, force the sorc to go aggressive on you. Take care to avoid blizzard’s first hit, as it is by far the most painful. Most sorcs will stop blizzing when they realize that your auras are eating them alive, and turn to ice blasts and the like. Charge in and end it if they dally on the ice blasts. If not, charge in during the cool-down period of blizzard and charge out at random angles. It should still be pretty easy.
Difficulty (orber): 1.5/10. Difficulty (blizzer): 3/10

7.0 In Conclusion:
• A dreamer is usually taken to be BM, so watch out for that if you care about such things.
• I have written this based on how I play and my own experience. It may vary from person to person.
• A dreamer is still primarily a caster-killer, but this guide has gear that is aimed towards giving dreamers a sporting chance against melee.
• I will answer questions about duels against builds that are not listed, but I may not have enough experience against certain weird builds.
• I will post screens of my build and gear later.
• I would like to thank some of my friends who helped me with this build, and who suffered through countless lost causes using casters against a dreamer.
• As a disclaimer, no glimmershreds were harmed or Charsi-ed in the making of this guide. A lot of trapsins were definitely harmed though.

Thanks for reading this.

Bjorgin
10-06-2007, 16:47
Nice guide! I used to have a dreamer and i think i may just rebuild him... Curse the AR issues :undecided:

Ouallada
10-06-2007, 17:49
Dreamers are fantastic pubbing characters and team duellers. Can never hurt to have one around.

As for AR issues, this is and always has been a huge problem for dreamers. Having to run conviction instead of fanaticism means that AR issues will be present against high defense characters. The key would be to get as much AR from gear as possible, and trust in a dreamer's inherent high resists to get you through casters, while the AR gear gives a fighting chance against melees.

I can reach over 20k AR with conviction on, without having the angelic combo. That is enough for me to hit melee characters fairly well.

redswordhero
11-06-2007, 00:58
nice guide! guess i gotta start getting those ar/lifers, would gcs suffice cuz scs will b too expensive for me :P

Ouallada
11-06-2007, 04:29
nice guide! guess i gotta start getting those ar/lifers, would gcs suffice cuz scs will b too expensive for me :P

GCs typically give more ar and less life than 3 equivalent scs. Consider lcs as well, as you are not using many pcombs with this build, and lcs are pretty effective as well. The best possible GC is a 132/45. Dividing by 3, we have 44ar/15life per space, and a perfect sc is 36/20. You get more life and less ar with scs. It really is up to you which one to get, but I would use a mix of both. In a pinch, simply use what you have or can get. In pubs, it shouldn't be a problem.

I will be uploading screens of my own character soon, as well as examples of some of the gear I am talking about. I will probably release an updated version of the guide, and talk a little more on pvm as well as the zeal/charge and smite/holy shield debates.

kohlman
11-06-2007, 16:58
I have a dreamer on west non-ladder and I must say that zons, foreball sorcs, and lightning sorcs are the easiest duels whereas barbs, ele druids, and paladins give me the most trouble. It is not only the attack rating that hurts me, its their resistances and massive life that just makes it very difficult.

The charms are where I am lacking and hopefully I can slap on some AR/lifers and hope for the best. Now to go find some of those...:grin:

All in all, great guide to the insight of a dreamer and I'll be sure to refer to it when necessary. Very well written and easy on the eyes :thumbsup:

Bjorgin
11-06-2007, 17:19
Congrats on the sticky

Ouallada
12-06-2007, 01:40
I have a dreamer on west non-ladder and I must say that zons, foreball sorcs, and lightning sorcs are the easiest duels whereas barbs, ele druids, and paladins give me the most trouble. It is not only the attack rating that hurts me, its their resistances and massive life that just makes it very difficult.

Javazons are by far the easiest. At times, I can simply stand there and the zon will die before me.

Ele druids are by far the hardest battle. Even with max dr and grief equipped, it is still insanely hard to take the majority against a windy that knows anything.

All in all, great guide to the insight of a dreamer and I'll be sure to refer to it when necessary. Very well written and easy on the eyes

Congrats on the sticky

Thanks guys.

Ok, as I promised, I will shot parts of the gear I am using, and the items I am talking about.

I don't have all the screens. Those I am posting are already on my comp. I will take build/stat screens when I get online.

These are the type of rare gloves that you would be looking for:

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w114/sk0rp10n/Screenshot032.jpg

I also mentioned the possible use of a rare pally ammy in this build. It has to be better than maras to be considered. This is an example of what to aim for. It will be hard to find similar or higher, but even an ammy 2 tiers lower may be better than maras.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w114/sk0rp10n/Screenshot016.jpg

I will post pics of other suitable gear choices as soon as I can take screens.

kohlman
12-06-2007, 15:52
Those are some nasty gloves. I am trying to find something else to wear over Laying of Hands...i know, i shouldnt be using them at all but i like the ias and havent found anything suitable to take its place just yet so ill start looking harder. By the way, did you find or gamble for those?

I use highlords for the lightning resist and ias but ill keep my eyes open for something in that range of amulets.

Ouallada
12-06-2007, 22:19
I found them early ladder iirc. LoH isnt really useful pvp. Just go with bloodfists/nos coil in a pinch.

Highlords is pretty decent if you want to zeal. otherwise, maras or metalgrid all the way. It would be rpetty tough to beat that rare ammy.

kohlman
12-06-2007, 22:41
I used nosferatus coil for a good long while and loved it for the str and ias. Origionally the char was a pvm char but now has been relegated to killing casters, trapers, and cs zons (which i still type laugh at while they hit me).

Now he uses loh or bloodfists, not sure, ill have to check, if he is using loh, ill put some spare bloodfists on him after uppin them once (non-ladder).

Ill keep my eyes out for an ammy like that but i doubt ill be able to find one with 2 pally skills since it seems like people would rather give up their firstborn son over anything paladin (curses on you who hoard your unused pcomb gc's!:rant: <--That smiley face is funny ).

Bjorgin
13-06-2007, 04:12
I found them early ladder iirc. LoH isnt really useful pvp. Just go with bloodfists/nos coil in a pinch.

Highlords is pretty decent if you want to zeal. otherwise, maras or metalgrid all the way. It would be rpetty tough to beat that rare ammy.

Indeed... That ammy is disgusting. :heart:

Ouallada
14-06-2007, 22:04
I used nosferatus coil for a good long while and loved it for the str and ias. Origionally the char was a pvm char but now has been relegated to killing casters, trapers, and cs zons (which i still type laugh at while they hit me).

Nos coil has slow as well. use liberally with holy freeze flashes or when doom is equipped.

Now he uses loh or bloodfists, not sure, ill have to check, if he is using loh, ill put some spare bloodfists on him after uppin them once (non-ladder).

Loh doesnt really give the dreamer anything though. ED to demons is pretty useless even in pvm as a dreamer has low melee damage.

Bloodfists all the way over Loh.


Indeed... That ammy is disgusting.

Hehe. Yeah it is. :)

kohlman
14-06-2007, 22:17
At the time i used LoH for the ias only since, as you said, dreamers have hardly any phys damage. I now have bloodfists on him and he enjoys them. I upped them once and they give negligible defence increase. cant up them again since its non-ladder but they work better than LoH so i'm happy.

As for the doom flashes, I just use doom all the time since my other weapon is a BOTD phase blade. I had botdz but needed to trade it for other items. Doomz is my pvp weapon and botdpb is my pvm weapon and they both work great. I would use doom if it had more ias and if i didnt have to repair it all the time =(

OOe
22-06-2007, 07:31
for cold sorcs, you die before they do. for barbs, you die before they do too. and for smiter, difficulty should be 11/10 since you won't ever kill a smiter who has sorb+stack, for example lightning damage can never touch my hammer, same with my friend's smiter. ur smite damage is not as good as theirs, so you are pretty much sitting duck. if you charge at a hammer or smiter, well... thats pretty much suicide. btw you forgot one more thing, poison necs. which hopefully doesnt have sorb and stack and you kill them before they get too close and kill you.

Ouallada
24-06-2007, 18:11
for cold sorcs, you die before they do

Depends on whether they play overtly defensively. If they simply keep running, I stack blizzard and chase them down. Not hard at all. If not, pulse radius is greater than the screen.

for barbs, you die before they do too

At times true, but not if you can zeal at 15k ar while maintaining conviction. Anything less than skilled and well-geared barbs able to stack light resist will cause you trouble.

for example lightning damage can never touch my hammer, same with my friend's smiter.

Again, I never said it was easy, and with a hammerdin/smiter, barring an inventory of 20/5s or 20/11s, you need a resist shield/kiras. Not easy, but nowhere near impossible. Wind druids will always be harder.

Poison necros have shorter range than auras, and pnb necromancers have difficulty getting resists.

mythos
25-06-2007, 05:44
Its a nicely written guide. Congrats!

Please don't take my criticism personally. I just have an extreme dislike for any auradin varient. I detest auradins who play purely defensive and intrude on other peoples duels getting kill that they clearly haven't earned. ie ow has taken someone to 1 life, then along comes the auradin and finishes them off.

I think you should mention, that, as a elemental build you can and will be negated at some point. Stack and sorb is the bane of any such build. You know it, because you do it against trappers/java etc. This is not to say the build is not viable, but anyone thinking of making a dreamer should know they'll get sorbed eventually.

I strongly disagree with your assessment of bone necro's. Any auradin who plays purely defensive with the hope that his aura will kill a decent nec (or any character) is just lame. And as such they better not cry when they get prisoned and all those spirits/spears catch up to them. Its not that hard for a nec to stack some resists in order to survive long enough to prison and kill a dreamer.

The reason dreamers are often considered bm, is because, regardless of the players intentions, they tend to nk a lot. I don't think they are too bm, I just think they are lame.

Question : do the lite dmg sc's add to aura pulses?

Ouallada
25-06-2007, 13:16
Please don't take my criticism personally. I just have an extreme dislike for any auradin varient. I detest auradins who play purely defensive and intrude on other peoples duels getting kill that they clearly haven't earned. ie ow has taken someone to 1 life, then along comes the auradin and finishes them off.

Nah it's fine. I agree that auradins are terrible characters, but the aim was to show that it would be possible to play this class with a semblence of skill and decency. I don't swear by dreamers/auradins, and do my own fair share of bashing as well.

I think you should mention, that, as a elemental build you can and will be negated at some point.

The same applies to all elemental builds. I am currently trying out a high level dreamer that has a maximised smite/zeal setup so that when opponents stack, they are slightly more vulnerable to melee.

I strongly disagree with your assessment of bone necro's. Any auradin who plays purely defensive with the hope that his aura will kill a decent nec (or any character) is just lame. And as such they better not cry when they get prisoned and all those spirits/spears catch up to them. Its not that hard for a nec to stack some resists in order to survive long enough to prison and kill a dreamer.

What I said about poison necros was directly in response to what the guy above stated. To be honest, at a lot of times I run nigma and hit the 75fcr bp in pubs, simply to avoid walls/prison. It is a very favourable battle if a dreamer can tele at that speed against a bone necro. Of course, it gets quite hard without tele, and a good necro with max block etc will always get some kills, but I think you would agree that necromancers sacrifice a lot of damage to get resists, and quite a lot of resists are needed to stack a dreamer. Wizzies with 15/7, anni/torch aren't enough and using a res shield takes SS and max block away. there are other options like kiras etc, but sacrifices in terms of life/damage/fcr are made.

Question : do the lite dmg sc's add to aura pulses?

Nope, they do not.

Thanks for the critique. :)

mythos
25-06-2007, 15:18
A necro needs good life/res charms to take the edge off the pulses. The point is not to fully negate the pulse, just to give you more time to kill the dreamer.
And I agree, if I was playing a dreamer, I'd try and build around enigma , especially v's necro's.

Another question : For pvm, how would you rate a 4xshael 2x facet phase blade? I'm thinking it'd be quite handy when there's IM about. It hits 4 frames zeal with conviction and the facets add a little damage too.

Ouallada
25-06-2007, 21:50
I'm not disagreeing with the necro bit. The dreamer isnt even one of my favourite builds by far. I simply wrote this because I felt that it has become a maligned build, partly deserved, of course. Necros can indeed stack enough from wizzy/charms to make pulses less painful, but tele-zeals hurt a lot.

As for the pb, I would try to have an eth somewhere, as most dreamer builds do not go with zeal in pvp, and thus they have only 1point + skills for zeal. If it cant be made up with gloves/ammy, then sacrifice a facet. It looks fine otherwise. To be honest. using crescent moon pvm in a phase blade would work just as well, and you would even have static to make killing easier.

mannymanny
26-06-2007, 20:48
Tell me if this is ridiculous, but wouldn't vengeance be a viable main attack? If you are going to be using conviction to lower resists, couldn't you take advantage of this to add a whopping amount of elemental damage with vengeance? Since resist lightning will be maxed, it will act both as a synergy for your double aura, and vengeance. With resist lightning, holy shield, conviction and vengeance maxed, any remaining points can be put in a second synergy for vengeance (salvation is a good choice, because it is also a synergy for holy shock). I'm not saying vengeance is more effective than smite, charge, or zeal, I'm just asking whether or not it would be possible. Also, if a situation arose where additional damage was needed, would it be sensible to equip griffon's eye for the additional lighning damage for both shock, and vengeance?

Ouallada
26-06-2007, 21:39
Vengeance was what old school elemental paladins used, before 1.10 iirc. However, vengeance depends solely on the physical damage of your weapon, which often makes it a cumbersome spell. Not to mention that vengeance is a poor attack, unlike zeal/ww which have quite a few hitchecks. If your question is whether it is possible, I would say that it is, but that dual dreams will always give you more, while opening the weapon slow for customisation.

Griffon's obviously will not work for dreamers, but for avengers they are possible, even though avengers typically use their gear to get IAS/dr.

mannymanny
26-06-2007, 22:02
Oh, right, i completely forgot that dream helm was equipped, my bad.

CosmicallyDrifting
04-07-2007, 10:10
Amazing guide. I made one, and i put my heart and soul into it. I traded off my blizz sorc and part of my barb to make him.

Instead of using any of the ammys listed, couldn't an even godlier ammy be implied, such as Armagheddon Slippers?

Does Ele damage and Physical damage hit at the same time? Let's say that you are wearing Grief and Fortitude, while using conviction and the dreams. When you hit someone (and these are just hypothetical numbers here), would the 3,000 damage from light hit at the same time as 3k from physical, dealing a total of 6k damage? (ignoring PDR and RES).

Could you use Offensive Gc's? Possibly 7 of them, rest x/ar/life sc's?

I find 3 characters being the absolute hardest poissble for a Dreamer:

MaxBlock Wind Druid- Basically impossible , after about 3-4 pulses they recast thier ele sheild... They have max block, so if you go in for the charge (and dont hit a re-summoned wolf) its most likely you'll be stopped in your tracks, bombarded by tornadoes which stun you, leaving the chance of escape slim-to-none. If you do somehow get the glorious 25% chance to hit them, you have to get past their cyclone armor (a fresh absorbsion of ATLEAST 1.2k ele damage [normally more]) and then thier resists, and then sorbs (if they have them), and finally thier life. But by then you're doing damage equivilent to that of a Scarab from act 2 in norm.

Hammerdin- Elite hammerdins, or atleast those who know that siting in a hammer field with with a zerk barb slowly 'gazing' at you (blindspot, anyone?) isn't the best thing to do, are very, I #&@$ing repeat, VERY hard. Firt. Lest go with possible resists for a hammerdin:

HoZ- 50 base, !SEVENTY-TWO! with it 'um'd'
Resist Auras- Basically negates the pulse's.
Shako-Um'd-15
Kiras guardian- 70+
Tyrael's might- Increased max res
WIZ SPIKE- VERY commonly used for that extra 10 fcr (most need for 125% breakpoint) - 75 damn res -.-
Hoto- 30-40
Res boots -up to 49
Tgods- Sorb and max
Other sorb gear like wisps
Maras- up to 30

Basically every peice of equipment being used by the hdin (except nigma) can be used to own you while still killing you in 3 hammers.

Now i'm not to say he'll use EVERY one of these (Sorcs beware), but wiz, hoz,shako,maras,tgods,and res auras are common.

All this ,yet u still have to get past the 17k+ def (w/o conviction) and Max block.
Oh ya, most have above 3k life (those with no life charms), some(40-50%) will have from 3.3k-4.1k A pain if you ask me. (TGF physical damage)


Lastly (these arnt in any specific order of toughness or w/e) theres the max block bone necro. Again, 75% chance to block the attack, can tele very fast, excellent spammers, and have bone prison. They can also use Wiz for more res, and have bone armor to interrupt any chance of you switching to melee.

A few tricks ive observed while dueling my friend bone necro:
Bone spirits stun. And hurt. As the necro sees u trying to outcharge/run the spirits, he'll bone prison you whiel you are being chased by them. This is a suprise. Even if you use enigma, the time it takes you to notice the prison, switch to it, then tele away, is normally always greater than the time it takes the closely trailing spirits to finish you off. They also have Spear, which moves faster than spirit, often used as a finisher.

Thats my 2 cents:scratch:

Ouallada
04-07-2007, 22:55
Slippers is obviously a great choice, but I made the assumption that people at least try to play legit, which rules slippers out. You don;t need brilliant gear to win.

Does Ele damage and Physical damage hit at the same time? Let's say that you are wearing Grief and Fortitude, while using conviction and the dreams. When you hit someone (and these are just hypothetical numbers here), would the 3,000 damage from light hit at the same time as 3k from physical, dealing a total of 6k damage? (ignoring PDR and RES).

Yup they hit at the same time, which is why grief and a smite setup is great on a dreamer.

Could you use Offensive Gc's? Possibly 7 of them, rest x/ar/life sc's?

Offensive gcs are pretty good for a dreamer, but conviction is expected to be at 25 with your +skills already, so pcombs would hypothetically be superior. For damage, light damage/life scs are the best source, even better than pcombs. Also, 3/ar/life scs are inferior to ar/life scs here, as off-weap ed for the dreamer is low, meaning direct damage from charms is not amplified to large extents as with dex bowas etc.

I agree with windys being near impossible. For stacking/sorbing hdins, you just have to suck it up and go with a full smite setup. It is possible to eke out a few wins. For necros, they have less capacity to stack and maintain damage thatn hdins, barbs and smiters. For that reason alone they should not be as hard as those other characters. Prison is BM in a lot of places, and I always use enigma against them in any case. As for being surprised at prison, it just takes getting used to. In any case, you WOULD expect a necro to prison a charging character, so just make the necessary mental adjustments, and everything should be fine.

CosmicallyDrifting
04-07-2007, 23:18
gotcha, thanks

kohlman
05-07-2007, 20:31
I have a question regarding the offensive skillers, would they bump up your lvl 30 holy shock damage? or is the only way to boost that have to have + holy shock (not paladin specific)?

Ouallada
05-07-2007, 22:30
There is no way to increase the lvl 30 HS through + skills. The HS aura given by dreams is fixed at level 30, which means that torches etc will not affect said level of HS.

Offensive skillers will only bump up conviction and fanat.

Pyro Dynasty
09-07-2007, 04:27
I have a question about lighting zons and (cs and fc). I have an auradin with a 18%wisp tgods and 91 light res and I still get killed very fast by light zons.... what gives?

Ouallada
09-07-2007, 17:18
If you have tgods and have maxed light res you should have 95 light resists. How much life do you have? If you have 3500+ life, the only thing I can think of is that the zons are using high physical damage javs. 400+ed/eth/replenishing/+max and min dmg javelins. Or that they are using jab or another physical damage attack. You should still be wiping the floor with them.

kohlman
09-07-2007, 18:45
dont bother with your conviction aura then, slap on tgods and turn on resist lightning. With resist lightning maxxed and tgods, you should have 95 resist lightning. Use charge until you miss (which shouldnt be very often) and once y ou miss a charge, be ready to switch to zeal and zeal away at them. You will get them into dodgelock and they will drop very fast.

Zons go for 2 things and 2 things only: speed and damage. They dont worry about resists and life as much as other characters do therefore they are glass cannon builds. Javazons have more resists and life than bowazons but once you start zealing away at them, the dodgelock will work against them, especially if you have doom on :thumbsup:

If you find doomz to be too cheap, then just get a 6 soc phase blade and fill it with shaels and anything else you want to (cham or um come to mind since the cold will help and open wounds will drain their life very fast)

Pyro Dynasty
10-07-2007, 08:31
mostly what kills me is fc zons.... aren't they all light dmg? and resist lightnight seems pointless when i have 91 light res w/o it and wisp/tgods as standard gear. I just don't get it. o as for life I have only 2k atm because I havent finished putting my stats into vita. any guesses?

kohlman
10-07-2007, 17:58
Doom or holy freeze flash. When they farcast, there is no beating around the bush, charge right at them. Once they get a lock, the fc will get you every time. Make sure you have holy freeze on and the dodgelock once you start zealing with holy freeze will drop them. All I can say about life is, dump it into vit and dont look back. You will need the life, no other way around it. And get a good bo stick.

Key is Holy Freeze. Doesnt matter if you get it from doomz or from yourself (1 point is fine for all needs and purposes). When they are slow, it takes away one of the 2 main elements of a zon, speed. Hit them hard and drop them fast, dont beat around the bush with them, they simply do too much damage.

Pyro Dynasty
11-07-2007, 09:58
i dont beat around the bush. i have been killed in 1 hit before... even though I only have 2k like their dmg shouldnt be able to go through res and sorb like that. i still dont get it

kohlman
11-07-2007, 18:03
To be honest I dont know because I faced a farcasting zon with 12k damage and with the lite resistance aura on and tgods she was doing something like 50 damage per hit. I have almost 3k life (2996 or something like that) and I cannot beat barbs, smiters, or windies. As for the zon thing, when I see someone I cant beat, I rejoin after dying once, and rejoin and dont hostile them. If they hostile, then find another pk game cause theres no point in going out there and losing. Id rather there be a 50/50 than 99/1.

HeavAngel
16-07-2007, 22:17
Thanks Ouallada,
for your time and work on this Guide for the members of the forum. :thumbsup:
Added to the Guide Thread.

deadbeater
16-11-2008, 01:36
To be honest I dont know because I faced a farcasting zon with 12k damage and with the lite resistance aura on and tgods she was doing something like 50 damage per hit. I have almost 3k life (2996 or something like that) and I cannot beat barbs, smiters, or windies. As for the zon thing, when I see someone I cant beat, I rejoin after dying once, and rejoin and dont hostile them. If they hostile, then find another pk game cause theres no point in going out there and losing. Id rather there be a 50/50 than 99/1.

Farcasting, ain't that a cheat? Pss.