View Full Version : What armor to use on melee chars?
Im having quite a bit of trouble deciding on what armor to make for general PvM melee char usage(like zealots, frenzy barbs, werewolves). Im considering gloom, stone and duress. They all seem to have their ups and downs, goods and bads, hard to make a choice!
Duress is the cheapest and has nice crushing blow on it, gloom has awesome resists, stone has big defense and stat bonuses. Upped shaftstop could be good too but it has a rather big str rec.
So anyway what are your experiences with the grunt armors? What do you prefer? No dupe armor suggestions please!:prop:
inanefedaykin
06-06-2007, 01:03
Well, a legit Lo isn't THAT hard to cube.
Overall, I'd go with duress.
Well still it would take 10-20ish hell forges? or so. Very time consuming if you only have 1 cd key. Thanks for the opinion though.
I'm a big fan of Guardian Angel. Don't up it unless you're going to use a really high str. weapon. (Like Schaefer's or something).
There's always that self repair one with a Mal in it (don't remember it's name) but you're probably best off with a non upped shaft, or a Stone in a good superior elite armor.
Well still it would take 10-20ish hell forges? or so. Very time consuming if you only have 1 cd key. Thanks for the opinion though.
More like 40. :shocked:
I always like Duress, nice and offensive.
Frosty_The_Snowman
06-06-2007, 16:45
Duress, Shaftstop, Duriel's Shell, Guardian Angel, Lionheart, Stealth, Treachery are all very nice melee armors, regarding to the mods/cost ratio.
inanefedaykin
07-06-2007, 04:39
Well, assuming you only cube gul runes.
1/11 for a gul from hell forge. You need 8 guls. You'll need 88 hell forges.
Someone on the SP forum said they could be in hell with a sorc within 2 hours (played through) and I'm assuming you could do it as well with practice.
6 hours of play a day means 3 forges a day. 30 days for a legit Lo. If you make a tcp/ip game and rush 7 random charecters along with the sorc you cut that time down by a considerable amount.
For MP it's even faster, a good hell rush takes 10 minutes and lets say half the people ditch instead of giving you their forge it's 18 a day. You've got yourself a legit Lo in 5 days. That's not even counting drops while rushing and none of this factors in any items dropped while doing anything other then a hellforge.
Well, assuming you only cube gul runes.
1/11 for a gul from hell forge. You need 8 guls. You'll need 88 hell forges.
That's not smart. If you do the NM hellforge as well, you get 2 Um, 1 Mal, 1 Ist and 1 Gul from each set of 11 runs which equates to 2 Gul.
Someone on the SP forum said they could be in hell with a sorc within 2 hours (played through) and I'm assuming you could do it as well with practice. 6 hours of play a day means 3 forges a day. 30 days for a legit Lo.
Don't count on it. It was a very experienced player and it was over 3 hours still. And on Battlenet such a thing would be impossible, because you can't level as fast there.
If you make a tcp/ip game and rush 7 random charecters along with the sorc you cut that time down by a considerable amount.
I've done that sort of thing and I can tell you that leveling a char to 40, all the switching between chars to enter portals and change acts is extremely exhausting. It is not unlikely that during the proces of obtaining the Lo, you lose all interest in playing Diablo.
For MP it's even faster, a good hell rush takes 10 minutes and lets say half the people ditch instead of giving you their forge it's 18 a day. You've got yourself a legit Lo in 5 days. That's not even counting drops while rushing and none of this factors in any items dropped while doing anything other then a hellforge.
That is only if you have someone to bug with. For each set of 7 characters one of them needs to be level 40. That is going to take you a lot longer than 10 minutes. Finding someone might take even longer, since just about everyone is trying to bugrush their chars on Battlenet now.
Sure it is possible. But you seriously have to consider if all that time is worth it. Not everyone can play 6 hours per day.
inanefedaykin
07-06-2007, 09:02
I didn't include the nightmare forge because it makes it much easier to give a semi-accurate number.
Quests only require that one person actively complete it. You'd simply have to alt-tab at the end of each act.
My MP number had nothing to do with getting a char through normal and nightmare. I know that I have no problems getting someone to rush in a game and 1/2 the people ditching is in my experience a gross over estimation.
Aah well really i wouldnt feel like wasting dozens of hours just to get that armor, especially since i now made an armor of comparable awesomeness. Prudence in an eth great hauberk, 2822 def, 28 all resists.
Awesome defence zrk!
Upgraded Duriel's Shell with an Um in it is a good cheapo armour...when i returned to HC my first barb (Conc build with all IK pieces 'cept armour) used this all the way thro Hell (non-upped:shocked: ) til he died from damn lag...i looooooove Treachery 2...great deal there for the runes...
PrkChopXpress
08-06-2007, 16:45
Treachery is great for anyone except a Sin with maxed Venom and uses BoS (me). Those proc's would annoy the crap outta me.
inanefedaykin
08-06-2007, 17:04
The procs on treachery won't over ride yours unless they're of a higher level.
Lower level venom doesn't override higher level venom, but Fade overrides BoS and lower level Fade/BoS overrides higher level Fade/BoS.
Treachery is a great armor for a kick/trap hybrid though.
EDIT: Mr Kaxe you are right. :-)
I thought it was the other way around stephan; if you had lvl 20 Venom on and you had a Bowassas for instance and you shot off a few rapid shots (BoS) the Treachery (lvl 15 Venom) would not override the lvl 20...
PrkChopXpress
08-06-2007, 17:51
Oh, thanks stephan. I didn't know that. Having my BoS overriden would still be annoying, but at least there's only a 5% chance.
Mr.Kaxe, that's exactly what he's saying. A lower level Venom won't override a higher level Venom. But Fade will override BoS regardless of their respective levels.
Having my BoS overriden would still be annoying, but at least there's only a 5% chance.
It procs more often that you think...
But Fade will override BoS regardless of their respective levels.
Not meaning to sound rude but that's a given and it's obvious and i knew that already...
Guess i read it 2 quick stephan! :grin:
PrkChopXpress
08-06-2007, 18:42
Not meaning to sound rude but that's a given and it's obvious and i knew that already...
Well, since you seemed confused as to what exactly stephan was trying to say, I just figured I'd be thorough. :brainiac:
Well, since you seemed confused as to what exactly stephan was trying to say, I just figured I'd be thorough. :brainiac:
And in doing so condecended me...as i said...i read it 2 fast...
I tried treachery on a zealot, but i think that while it is a great armor, it doesnt suit the principle of zealots too well. Zealots dont have a lot of life like barbs and druids do, so they gotta make up for it with defense and using a low def armor like treachery sort of wastes that opportunity. Also fade doesnt trigger often enough because of zealots defensive power (except in areas with a lot of elemental casters)
inanefedaykin
11-06-2007, 05:11
Paladins get 3 life per vit point and even stupid high def Coa/Levi PVP zealots have pretty good life.
For most melee characters, heck, even for bowas that use it, the Fade proc on Treachery is used as a prebuff tactic. You usually go and stand in a fire rather than allowing monsters to wail on you to get it to trigger...
Just a thought...
I think the best cheap armor for melee characters is probably Lionheart. You can't beat Hel, Lum, Fal. Def is not nearly so important as folks like to make it out to be. If that were the case then you wouldn't have so many meleers running around using their COH suits.
Anyway, point is this: cost-wise there are only two genuine candidates.
1. Lionheart (Hel, Lum, Fal is cheap by any standard for 30 res, all those boosts, the slight damage bump, and the potentially reasonable defense of an Archon Plate in the 600 range).
2. Duress (maybe with the exception of elemental zealots, who try to deliver as much elemental damage as possible in the very short term, this is one of the most useful armors in the game and is certainly endgame worthy. Plus, it's the only armor source of Crushing Blow that I can think of in the game).
Stone and Prudence are slightly more expensive than Duress, and Gloom, well, aside from its res it just doesn't do much else...honestly...it does sport high defense, but that's really about it. Lionheart does as much if not more for much less.
That's not to mention that Lionheart could conceivably be being worn as low as, what, level 41 if it were in a Dusk Shroud? That's a little insane. That's not to mention it has - level req attached to it, and it's STR bonus is fantastic in helping with final gear layout. It's just a total piece of utility kit.
Treachery is nice as well, and very cheap, but I'm just not a prebuff kind of guy. Fade is exceptional, the IAS is exceptional, but I hate having to get Fade to recast. And, honestly, I'd rather have the 40% FHR of Duress any ole' day -- res can be made up easily in other ways.
Just a few opinions.
But for sheer value, I just don't think you can go wrong with either Duress or Lionheart.
I forgot to mention that Smoke is also a very reasonable and UBER-CHEAP alternative to all of these. It qualifies as high-end utility kit as well. But for meleers in a heavy armor it can get very reasonable def -- over 1000 in many cases. It has high res, nice hit recovery, a little missile defense, and the weaken charges can get you out of a nasty jam in a pinch.
So, actually, I might have to say that Smoke is a very close third on that list, and, honestly, I can't say whether I would choose Lionheart or Duress if I were on a budget -- they're equal in my eyes.
FINAL EDIT: I never noticed the FHR on Prudence -- that makes it far more desireable. However, I would still go with Duress for a melee oriented build if I were given the choice. And, yes, it can get much higher defense than a comparable smoke, and has 5% more FHR -- so it's a toss up. But Prudence would still be more expensive having a single Mal.
Paladins get 3 life per vit point and even stupid high def Coa/Levi PVP zealots have pretty good life.
Yes they do have good life, thanks to bo and very nice charms. I dont have either of them though >_<
Anyway i did try treachery and smoke, and the defense just is TOO SMALL, after act 3 hell the monsters will smack the **** out of you if you have 1100 life and 4000-6000 defense. With prudence i got a reasonable 20000 defense and i can tank frenzytaurs(to some extent :wink2: ). Lionheart would have the same problem ad the other low-def armors.
Def might not be too important if you have a big life buffer with which to take hits, but if you dont, then in my opinion defense has to work as that buffer.
And well, ive reached my preference, prudence. The defense just is too big to leave any armor a chance(in my opinion), as this comparative shot points out. The crushing blow and cold damage on duress are nice, and its a VERY cost effective armor, but for overall safeness i prefer prudence. Perhaps if i played softcore id use duress, but in hardcore dying is not an option and having high defense really decreases the chances of it happening.
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9349/prudencedd4.jpghttp://www.diabloii.net/items/runes/runewords/duress2.jpg
And switching to treachery every 5 minutes to get fade is a good option, but only really worth it in the nastiest areas of the game in my opinion. Takes too much time otherwise.
PrkChopXpress
11-06-2007, 16:29
And in doing so condecended me...as i said...i read it 2 fast...
I wasn't being condecending. You admitedly misread the explanation and I was just trying to help you. No need to get your panties all in a bunch. Relax a little bit.
I wasn't being condecending. You admitedly misread the explanation and I was just trying to help you. No need to get your panties all in a bunch. Relax a little bit.
You may not have intended to be but your writing style did...you are getting uptight by replying and arguing as it is not necessary and is trolling the thread so you relax a bit eh?
PrkChopXpress
11-06-2007, 18:19
Mr.Kaxe, that's exactly what he's saying. A lower level Venom won't override a higher level Venom. But Fade will override BoS regardless of their respective levels.
How exactly could I have worded that any differently?
Tell ya what, how about you just stop...right now...again, you are just trolling and being a fool when this could have ended a long time ago...you stated the obvious to me when it didn't needed to be stated and that's the end of it...OK?!
Peace
dk
PrkChopXpress
11-06-2007, 18:42
When you construe the exact opposite meaning of something someone writes, why am I supposed to assume that you don't need the obvious stated?
Just because you say that you don't mean to sound rude, doesn't mean that you're not. All I was trying to do was help and then I'm told I'm being condescending. So who's doing the trolling?
When you construe the exact opposite meaning of something someone writes, why am I supposed to assume that you don't need the obvious stated?
Just because you say that you don't mean to sound rude, doesn't mean that you're not. All I was trying to do was help and then I'm told I'm being condescending. So who's doing the trolling?
You carry on with that attitude if it makes you feel important dude...i don't care quite frankly as you persist in carrying this on...i read something 2 quick (which i have repeated 3 times now) so now you start condescending me more by telling me i need the obvious stated because of that...i wasn't being rude before as it is pretty damn obvious about Fade n BoS not running at the same time and didn't need to be told...THAT'S where you are being condescending...not your 'trying' to help but again this is a stupid argument which has came from nothing so lets just drop it as i suggested eh?!
PEACE...
dk
This is insane...
There is no trolling going on here, and the earlier message wasn't condescending. It just pointed out an error in comprehension, and then it attempted to provide you with a reasonable response, Kaxe, that's all.
The internet certainly is devoid of certain linguistic cues such as inflection and body language, but YOU were the one that took offense, and if anyone is trolling it's YOU -- since you keep aggravating the situation.
There was no need to be offended. Understand that without certain physical and vocal cues it is very easy to misinterpret the intent of some things written online, then...drop it.
This thread should definitely be locked.
And if you want to discuss *condescending*
Grammatically and semantically it doesn't make sense for someone to *condescend* you -- condescend is an intransitive verb, meaning it doesn't act upon a direct object. It only represents the action of the subject itself.
EXAMPLE: Lightning Strikes; Fish swim...etc...
Condescending, however, takes the present participle form and functions as an adjective describing a characteristic of someone.
EXAMPLE: John can be so condescending.
So, you don't *condescend* someone -- you might *patronize* someone, or *insult* them, but you don't *condescend* them. You might act condescendingly, or be condescending, or express condescencion -- which is a noun -- but you don't condescend someone. It's actually more appropriately labeled as a verbal -- a verb which is here functioning as another part of speech.
Anyway, I digress...no one here was actually being condescending. So let it drop already, eh?
OK there is no need for you to jump in either Aiglos...your not a mod...his 'reasonable response' was stating the obvious which did not need to be done and yes i should be saying it patronized me but again thats not the damn point...he carried this on and for GODSAKE i didn't get THAT offended and HE is aggravating ME!! My posting style in no way started off with me getting angry...he pushed me to that so don't accuse me of starting to troll eh?
For God's SAKE!!! END OF!!!
Kaxe,
See...point made. I wasn't trying to act like a moderator. I was just pointing out to you that I'm relatively certain there was no harmful intent on the part of porkchop.
But then you go on the defensive against my post. You were the one offended by the original post. And he tried to tell you that he was in no way attempting to be condescending toward you. It could have died at that point had you just accepted the explanation and apology.
I wasn't trying to moderate -- I was interpreting. I was pointing out to you (which has now been proven in your response to my post) that the internet isn't always the best forum for accurate semantic interpretation. It was just a misunderstanding and both parties should have taken it for what it was and moved on.
Kaxe,
See...point made. I wasn't trying to act like a moderator. I was just pointing out to you that I'm relatively certain there was no harmful intent on the part of porkchop.
But then you go on the defensive against my post. You were the one offended by the original post. And he tried to tell you that he was in no way attempting to be condescending toward you. It could have died at that point had you just accepted the explanation and apology.
I wasn't trying to moderate -- I was interpreting. I was pointing out to you (which has now been proven in your response to my post) that the internet isn't always the best forum for accurate semantic interpretation. It was just a misunderstanding and both parties should have taken it for what it was and moved on.
I'm sure there wasn't harmful intent on his behalf but do you see my point at all?
I did not need the obvious stated and when i told him that he got uppity...it could have ended there but he chose to argue that i needed to be patronized because i mis-read what stephan said...it is completely out of whack as he started with the rubbing me up the wrong way and i'm not takin it quite frankly...it was ok to point out (even though i admitted it and corrected it multiple times...) where the misunderstanding was but he reacted badly to what i said about stating the obvious and it can be clearly seen...
EDIT: What apology...?
Oh boy. This is all my fault. :embarassed:
I did mess up my post and MrKaxe did read it correctly. I edited my post to correct it after MrKaxe made his. I guess I should have made that more clear and should more frequently check threads I have posted in.
I apologize to all parties for the inconvenience. :embarassed:
Oh boy. This is all my fault. :embarassed:
I did mess up my post and MrKaxe did read it correctly. I edited my post to correct it after MrKaxe made his. I guess I should have made that more clear and should more frequently check threads I have posted in.
I apologize to all parties for the inconvenience. :embarassed:
It's no problem dude, it's not your fault! Solved!
Now, peace my brothers :cloud9:
Good times. Eveyrone have a nice day, okay!
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