View Full Version : Bad-Mannered PVP
What is the most adept class (and in what gear, with what skill spec) at bad-mannered ganking in pvp?
I know there is a wide range of answers, but I'd like to see some ideas from members of the community on what they think is the cheapest class out there in terms of killing people easily or in some humiliating manner. Remember, I'm not asking for a powerful dueling character. What can play dirty and be powerful by playing bad-mannered?
I'll include a poll for which class you think, but respond with specifics on skill spec and gear, too.
Uncle_Mike
05-06-2007, 23:14
post first vote next - AFAIK the polls are still not working properly :wave:
inanefedaykin
06-06-2007, 00:52
Curses from a nec and gumby. I can't see it getting that much more bm.
mystified
06-06-2007, 00:53
if we are talking nking in pub games, I'd say paladin by far. I am talkking -res equiped pure FoH pala. No pubbies ever have any good abs gear and this will own. FC ama can be same but that's using hack. legit bming (if there is such a thing) can be easily done with paladins.
town guarding metoers, hammer, blizz can also work same way. All these chars btw, can be owned again by any skilled player. metoer sucks agains abs, hammers...well you can bring chars that take advantagem and blizz again can be absorbed/nullified
Necromancers mostly. All those annoying curses, walls, prisons, revives.
akumaxxyz
06-06-2007, 01:55
necro #1, just crash the game no more bm
PvtCaboose
06-06-2007, 01:56
Sin with nk, Traps your body!
Ouallada
06-06-2007, 02:00
This question always comes up. For BM in pubs, hammerdins and other pallys in general BM extremely well.
For humiliation, necro. Bone prison and IM high levels after they die, while letting gumby whack them. If they kill themselves through IM, iirc they lose exp too.
auradins.
once they kill you, you'll never get your body again.
auradins.
once they kill you, you'll never get your body again.
No one dies to an auradin to begin with though... ESPECIALLY in bm...
Any elemental char (excluding a rare breed of bliz sorc) is no more than a mobile akara in bm.
i beg to differ. come talk to me after your melee char has to go chase down a vigored charging auradin.
i beg to differ. come talk to me after your melee char has to go chase down a vigored charging auradin.
Not even Feral Raged, vigored, maxed Increased Speed wolfbarb?
is that your own specific character that you use?
No, i saw one in kiba's videos.
well, i haven't seen one either, and i'm guessing there's maybe one or two of those chars on west.
so the great majority of melee pvp have to run at normal speed or + enigma, which still, isn't fast enough to catch a vigored charging auradin...unless he makes a mistake and charges into bad terrain...trees/holes/etc. simply put, he can outrun you until you die. even worse, it takes no mana to do what he does, should his frw = or > than yours.
you can esc+exit. but that's the best you can do against him. i've had less trouble with 20k+bliz tgers
Ouallada
06-06-2007, 23:53
Actually, casters suffer most against auradins. Practically impossible to win against them at times. Great pub chars.
Unfortunately, meleechars can always stack against auradins, which means that auradins are going to do negligible damage.
then it's a question of patience. unless you stack high enough and your life replenish is high enough to counteract the aura pulses[which, if you were to come up with one, i would be sad for you, because you made up a gear switch JUST to prove this, or to prevent auradins from hurting you and thus opening yourself up to everyone else], the best you can do is esc+exit.
Ouallada
07-06-2007, 00:15
then it's a question of patience. unless you stack high enough and your life replenish is high enough to counteract the aura pulses[which, if you were to come up with one, i would be sad for you, because you made up a gear switch JUST to prove this, or to prevent auradins from hurting you and thus opening yourself up to everyone else], the best you can do is esc+exit.
That is silly isnt it? That is the same as saying light sorcs carrying infinity would kill everyone with thunderstorm, and that they would win moral victories even if others stacked light resists. Or that trappers would own pubs if no one bothered to stack light resists and move up a fhr bp or two.
Bottom line is, I'm not sure which utopian world you are living in, but reality just dialled your number.
Believe me, there are plenty of ways in which you can be caught. Holy freeze? Foh to stop desync? Intercepting whirlwinds? Bone walls? Decrep? WOI?
reality is, i'm talking about melee characters here, quall, if you haven't noticed already...
all those you mentioned in your post are all caster type characters, or melee with caster/range type skills. of course, you can argue a doom melee, but doom is bm.
or a v/t gets foh
or a bvc can tele
or nigma'd any character for that matter.
woi? show me a fading ghost sin that can catch up to a skilled vigor charging auradin[i know, a 'skilled' pub newb dueler is a contradiction, but for the sake of argument] and i'll believe you. ghost sins get dragon flight.
i'm talking about a pure melee.
like my 9.7k life
slightly stacked
cyclone armored
4fpa 15k dmg fury@range 4
werewolf with feral rage has problems with auradins. so i hardly think i wouldn't know what i'm talking about.
Ouallada
07-06-2007, 01:35
All I mentioned are possible ways in which an auradin can be caught.
A smiter can't catch an auradin? Not with throw teleport, vigour + charge and holyfreeze? Of course, some people don't consider smite to be melee, but I won't be far off if I say a smiter can eat an auradin for breakfast.
So your situation is that the auradin simply runs for his life, in the opposite direction of the opponent? If the auradin desyncs in a circular motion, he can be intercepted. Of course, if you are talking about a foot race, then perhaps only barbs and pallys can catch an auradin, but being able to hit an auradin who isnt running in the opposite direction is completely different to being able to catch an auradin in terms of footspeed.
Heh, melee chars cannot have caster elements, cannot stack, cannot tele, cannot even use skills like df? Give me such a weighted situation and a zealot can beat a bvc.
inanefedaykin
07-06-2007, 01:43
Tgods + 20/11 sc
GG mr auradin?
i was specifically talking about melee v auradin. not anything else.
using a bm skill to catch a bm is a hollow victory, so i think hf is out, but if you insist, then sure, go ahead. i consider smite melee only because you have to be within the weapon's range to hit.
a smiter can catch an auradin right out of town, maybe. but in a footrace, it's gfg. and an auradin running around in circles isn't hard to beat. it's just learning their footpath and then intercepting it with a shorter one, i've done it. but what i'm talking about is a pure runner who just goes in one direction, and that is away from you.
i didn't say that melee couldn't have access/use those skills. i was stating pure melee catching an auradin as in getting in within range to strike. df gives you a chance to ww as soon as you land. foh no brainer. telestomp+whirl is no brainer. but running up to an auradin who runs away is a whole nother story.
and yes, i've seen zealots take on bvc's. bvc's tend to have an aggressive nature, so it's easy to shiftzeal. i reckon i take down bvc's easier than zealot.
anyway, this argument has turned into a silly game of semantics. i'll just leave it that simply catching an auradin with your full gear by foot, nigh impossible. and if he kills you, you will never get your body if he corpseguards.
there's even a fool out there with the name of 'youleavenaked' or something like that, because he bm's until you leave without your body because you can't retrieve it.
fed, i was talking about catching one. defeating one is easy once i get in range, but when my poor pup can't run up to smack the auradin idiot, then tgods and those res/life sc's won't do jack but prolong my running around.
inanefedaykin
07-06-2007, 02:17
Yeah, you'll prolong your running indefinetley. 85% res and 40 integer absorb should easily completely negate most auradins. The good ones will of course require a wisp.
Ouallada
07-06-2007, 02:36
and yes, i've seen zealots take on bvc's. bvc's tend to have an aggressive nature, so it's easy to shiftzeal.
Heh. Forgive me if I don't take you overly seriously ok?
inanefedaykin
07-06-2007, 04:48
BvCs don't have max block and their defense isn't extrordinary, on the other hand zealots do and since they both have the same range... If not for retreating WW I'd call it ezpk and I'd think charge would trump that.
watching a player's ww style before a duel even begins or at the worse, while dueling, you can predict when he'll use a long or a short ww. after that, it's just timing ftw
Ouallada
07-06-2007, 08:24
BvCs don't have max block and their defense isn't extrordinary, on the other hand zealots do and since they both have the same range... If not for retreating WW I'd call it ezpk and I'd think charge would trump that.
No, but the nature of ww means that a barb has more hitchecks, while the nature of zeal makes it inferior in pvp. Not to mention that a barb has potential use of open wounds, widow etc to ensure that a zealot does not sit there and wait for the barb to ww past. I dare say that a barb can drive-by ww even though a zerk-wielding zealot has the same range, because ww cannot be interrupted, while zeal can.
inanefedaykin
07-06-2007, 08:56
Zeal is an uninteruptable attack. Also, you're welcome to sit there with a widow maker out, you've got a 1/4 chance of getting through block and you're bassicly charge bait.
StrawberryCake
07-06-2007, 13:02
hdin > every other char in bm
Ouallada
07-06-2007, 17:24
Zeal is an uninteruptable attack.
What I meant was that the first hit for zeal has to make contact, while WW is unstoppable regardless.
As for the usability of widow, that is simply to illustrate that a barb has the ability to force the zealot to take the initiative too, and not just stand still and shift zeal. I'm not entirely sure if charging a bvc is the best thing to do either, esp when charge is so buggy and when your range is at best equal to the barb's, and that chance to block is nullified when charging. I still maintain that the duel is the barb's to win or lose.
Uncle_Mike
07-06-2007, 17:31
post first vote next - AFAIK the polls are still not working properly :wave:
+1
The thread the poll leads to has been bumped already - post and vote please, not the other way around :wave:
You are all women for wanting a BM char in the first place. And to those of you helping out the OP find the best BMer, you're part of the one major problem on Bnet. This game would be fantastic without all the jerks.
Uncle_Mike
07-06-2007, 19:00
You are all women for wanting a BM char in the first place. And to those of you helping out the OP find the best BMer, you're part of the one major problem on Bnet. This game would be fantastic without all the jerks.
:girly:
This is a legit topic, whatever the op choses he will have to face other bm players.
I vote for auradins against casters (especially when the auradin wears doom), and probably trapper for melee chars who dont stack. but for the sake of all BM, we will pretend that everyone stacks and absorbs since...after all... it is bm. this leaves us with who does the most unstackable, unabsorbable damage leaving us with skills like smite, guided arrow, blessed hammer, and bone necros.
Since for the most part, smite is not considered bm unless coupled with exile in some areas, we will not discuss smite.
Guided arrow can be blocked, depends on defense of target as well as negated to an extent with DR so it isnt exactly as dominant as smite in general.
That leaves us with blessed hammer and the spears, spirits, and curses of the necros.
Blessed hammer is known by most if not all duelers as unresistable, unreal damage. the hamemrs can come in the form of an invisible force hitting you in the face with 17k damage. It is the ipitome of badness in dueling. Its only weakness is that it moves in a predictable pattern every time and comes from the same location every time, without fail. These hamemrs are not bm unless the person has already been killed. Hammerdins are a legitimate class in most dueling areas.
necros on the other hand have very many different weapons in their arsenal. One tactic that is bm 95% of the time is summons with Iron Maiden on the poor unsuspecting target. With minion stack coupled with gumby's slow, plus tons of the same damage dealt back, a whirlwinding barb can drop before he even passes the necro. Stick a ww barb or sin in a bone prison with iron maiden = dead ww char
To me the most bm character would be a summoner or any necro for that matter with one point summons and 1 point curses.
i have always found a use for bm characters as long as i am not the one initiating the bm. Sometimes it works to fight fire with fire.
MysticDragon
09-06-2007, 04:43
BvCs don't have max block and their defense isn't extrordinary, on the other hand zealots do and since they both have the same range... If not for retreating WW I'd call it ezpk and I'd think charge would trump that.
With that logic, Smiters should kill BvCs more often. :P
inanefedaykin
09-06-2007, 07:42
Given that smiters ignore what I listed as a BvC's major weakness against physical based charecters I have to say I don't follow your logic.
Hmm I posted here a few days ago, but somehow my post got lost.
I voted paladins, they just got high BM potential for several reasons.
And I am wondering why so many people voted assassins. Is mindblast BM? ^_______^
The only way an assassin could lame is towntrapping and nk.
But then again, which char cant do that?
Uncle_Mike
09-06-2007, 15:12
Hmm I posted here a few days ago, but somehow my post got lost.
I voted paladins, they just got high BM potential for several reasons.
And I am wondering why so many people voted assassins. Is mindblast BM? ^_______^
The only way an assassin could lame is towntrapping and nk.
But then again, which char cant do that?
It did not get lost - you voted and replied which is not the correct order - your post ended up either in the community forum :smiley:
http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=5576294&postcount=7
superjayson
09-06-2007, 15:16
I love how paladins are winning this poll. Was there ever a more obvious choice ? No.
It did not get lost - you voted and replied which is not the correct order - your post ended up either in the community forum :smiley:
http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=5576294&postcount=7
Sorry, didn't know that. That must be a bug on these forums, though.
I usually read a poll's topic, vote and then post, which always worked ... up to now ^_^
Gandolph
11-06-2007, 03:06
Question: Can an Assassin enter a Baal game, go down to the throne room with the group, lay traps, then TP out and hostile? Would the traps then attack the party? I'd consider this pretty BM and considering the Sin is sitting in town, nobody would suspect a thing.
Ouallada
11-06-2007, 03:51
The traps would die as the sin leaves the environment.
inanefedaykin
11-06-2007, 04:35
I still haven't seen any arguments that have convinced me that there's anything nearly as bm as a good pnb nec using curses.
Gandolph
11-06-2007, 15:16
I still haven't seen any arguments that have convinced me that there's anything nearly as bm as a good pnb nec using curses.
Personally, I don't believe a PnB necro is bm at all simply because he is using the skills provided to his class. The term "bad mannered" is very subjective. One could argue that any class that uses Oskills could be considered bm. That would eliminate Enigma and any item that grants an aura to anyone other than a Paladin. Other people wouldn't consider that bm simply because they can't imagine their beloved hammerdin without the ability to teleport. But that's the point isn't it? Each class has it's own strengths and weaknesses.
IMHO the more skilled player will always win a legit duel regardless of bm tactics.
inanefedaykin
12-06-2007, 01:15
Teleport is pretty meh for a pvp hammerdin. 9/10 times you're better off desynching around.
Also, we saw from pre enigma dueling that the only way to beat sorcs was to catch em doing something stupid and to sorb.
Necro casting IM always is hard not to say BM, but then again a desyncing hammerdin always makes me mad.
Ouallada
12-06-2007, 02:15
Actually, teleport can be pretty important in quite a few situations. Like when being followed by a whole lot of bone spirits. Or when you nl tele in for the surprise kill, or against certain overly defensive blizz sorcs even.
Well having curses being Bm is whether you see a smiters cast life tap and either saying its Bm or Gm, correct?
But again you can see it as the Nec already being able to use it because its a skill.
ShazamLies
12-06-2007, 02:50
I'm gonna vote wind druid for kicks and giggles. They can out tank most classes thanks to several abilities.
Abs + stack res > any elemental char.
Ironmaiden from Metalgrid > baba
Doom > many melee chars
Max block + anti poison gear + light abs/stack > ww sin
Summon stack > hdins and necros
Am I missing anything...?
Potswise druids + barbs + paladins make the most effective use of pots because they have the most life. BM wise can we also agree that a certain bugged fcr glove gives druids the most options in gear switching from any character, aside from maybe a tie with hdins.
Revive + skele stacking bone necro's also run a close second for being BM, but they simply have less life and are weak bone necs after the revive timer runs out.
dainbramage
12-06-2007, 13:20
Max block + anti poison gear + light abs/stack > ww sin
I'm sure you'll enjoy your extra tanking when you actually manage to cast something... oh, wait. Druids as a whole get wtfpwnt by assassins because they get stupidly stunlocked... and there's no real way to have max block, light abs/stack, good fhr and good life.
Lol nec is a very good bm char but a hammerdin is worst imo a juving hammer well built can stack /absorb any element and still have high dmg dr% etc.
Also lifetap> im usally used vs nec for barbs also tele zerk work quite well vs im.
Also summon stack usally gets owned by fireball sorcs or trappers, as these can knock the stack off with mb or for the fireball sorc the splash dmg or light sorc chain lighting i believe even blizz is a threat to minnion stack.
ShazamLies
13-06-2007, 01:37
I'm sure you'll enjoy your extra tanking when you actually manage to cast something... oh, wait. Druids as a whole get wtfpwnt by assassins because they get stupidly stunlocked... and there's no real way to have max block, light abs/stack, good fhr and good life.
For funsies:
4 Gul'd JMOD
Spirit Sword
2/20/20/2 Circlet Double Ber
Enigma
2/20fcr Amulet
Wisp
FCR Ring
Tgod's
Trang's
Hotspurs
= 95 pr, 90 fr, 85 lr with 20% light abs.
prebuff fade+cta
use gavel of pain on switch to cast amp
you also get 39 dr, 105 fcr, max block, and 75 fhr. The rest of the fhr can come from charms, and you've mostly negated light/psn damage, and most ww sins have pidly physical dmg. The real threat comes from OW and stunlock, but you can block most of the WW and hopefully thats enough abs to absorb ww sin's weak traps.
If you can completely negate the light damage, stun will only come from the physical part of the WW, which you will be blocking 3/4 of the time...
In all honesty sins > windies but this is the best attempt I can come up with right now.:brainiac: But the druid can pot all day whereas one fateful WW and the sin dies thanks to amp and nadoes hitting more than once.
@sichalo, bm necs can take the time to get immune revives :prop:
DeliriumNecromancer
14-06-2007, 03:32
Any char that uses potions during the duel I think is BM. after the duel i could care less but during the duel that is just noob. besides that tho, i would say FoH'rs, you don't even got to aim.
MysticDragon
14-06-2007, 04:10
Too weak versus anything that can stack or a Windy or a Zon.
Also against FoH, while using my Nec, bonewall takes the hit from there foh.
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