charge Vs Zeal for dreamer

[TurkeyLurkey]

Ok my setup is Beastz, Dual dreams. Fortitude. Dracs or bloodfist
string of ears or Tgods. Gores. Hilords, Raven, Bk.

But I was wondering where to put rest of my points.
Zeal Vs Charge really. I know charge is really buggy. I want to use holyshield for GG blocking. But Zeal it seems like I may never hit them. Would it be better to Max Zeal? and dump rest into Blessed aim for passive ar? Or Max Zeal will I get enough ar not be crushed everytime by bvb? A bit of help would be very nice.

[Ouallada]

Fortitude?

use charge always for pvp.

[TurkeyLurkey]

But what about Charge bug? And if they block heaven forbid.
And whats wrong with Fort?

[ShazamLies]

Don't think you need the beast there, generally grief is better. Could go the EDeath Ettin if you just plan on charging though.

For pvm Zeal is the way to go, but in PvP its hard to hit with. A lot of auradins either max out their charge + resist lightning, or their smite + resist lightning. If you go the smite route, you might want to stick with a Grief PB and drop your highlords for something else.

I have also seen a dual dreams pally using crescent moon (or 30/30 pb) + 20/20 fhr armor before, thats the way to go if you only plan on avoiding the enemy and killing them with pulse

[TurkeyLurkey]

But for clearing pubbies is Smite auradins better than chargedins ? vs most people?

[inanefedaykin]

Pubs are filled with casters. Teleporting, low defence casters.
Use charge.

[Ouallada]

Don't think you need the beast there, generally grief is better. Could go the EDeath Ettin if you just plan on charging though.

That is only if they sorb you. Crescent moon is the best dreamer weapon for casters.

[TurkeyLurkey]

Alright guys, ill be going with charge then? Anyone up for clearing a Pub?

[TurkeyLurkey]

Ok Ive been playing a bit. I do fairly well vs all casters cept hammys, they are medium, smiters i just have to run away and they die. Barbs i treat as same as smiters but if they sorb i am done. Windies are sooo hard! How do I beat them?

[psych]

Smite auradins

afaik the elemental damage does not transfer to a smite attack

[Ilikestarcraft]

But maxed holy sheild and 1 pt smite with fana and grief still does alot.

[kohlman]

you are correct. the smite damage does not get boosted by the damage auras, or else many smiters would have dual dreams. imagine a 7k physical smite plus a 7k elemental smite...14 k smite would be sicknasty. people would have to choose lightning resist or physical damage reduction. it would be like dueling a nasty, stunning (physically) fist of heavens pally :shocked:

[natenoob]

Ok Ive been playing a bit. I do fairly well vs all casters cept hammys, they are medium, smiters i just have to run away and they die. Barbs i treat as same as smiters but if they sorb i am done. Windies are sooo hard! How do I beat them?

Windies are defefiantely hard. You pretty much need to charge around in a circle till all their summons are dead (they will pretty much be teleporting around at this point and for all the duel) then you have to get lucky and turn around and charge them, if they block get out of there asap and try again.

[Ouallada]

^There is still the small problem of cycvlone armour. You need to play like a pure charger in this one. Play as though you expect your elemental damage to be negated by cyclone armour. Also, wear a ber shaftstop for this duel. You may also consider swapping out your weapon for an ebotdz or any other high physical damage one-hander. Most pub windies dont carry high dr, so they will feel it when they get hit by charge. Get rid of the summons, and desync around. hit the druid when the druid is recasting.

[ShazamLies]

Don't use conviction for this dool. Go for fanat + charge/smite. Dreams do help though because they clear the minions for you. If he has no block the duel is in your favor, with block it gets hard because he can block your attack and you lack dr to tank him.:soapbox:

[Ouallada]

Even better, have a charge/smite setup in stash with SS.

[redswordhero]

with dream charger, is it wise to put a point in fana?

[Ouallada]

yes always. hey if you like, we can hit pubs together. I can use my dreamer too.

[redswordhero]

are u talking to me? if u are, maybe i can learn something from you since i usually dont fare that well.

may i ask you the skill distribution?
i currently use max res light
max might
1 salvation
max conviction
max charge
1 hs
1 fana
@ lvl 87 with pre reqs

My life is pretty low due to no pcomb lifers or max/ar/lifers

can i ask u ur usual charms + gears in pubs?

btw cant play right now, gotta take a nap final in a few hours -_-
but ty for the help

[Ouallada]

It really depends. I built my dreamer as an anti-caster char.

I maxed:
charge
convic to 25
res light
HS

1 zeal
1 fanat
1 vigour
rest into pre-reqs and salvation/charge synergies

I don't really use pcomb lifers. All ar/life charms and life/res and res/fhr charms. Dreamers are pretty Bm chars so I only use them if a trapsin is being naughty or something. I have demon limb, angelic combo + fool's/ias/28xed zerk for hitting melee on top of fanat.

Besides that, casters are really easy. Pally sanctuary + primary tgods is really all I use.

[redswordhero]

hmmmm by HS u mean holy shield right? and usually what is ur ar with all ur charms and angelics and such on? minus the rare zerk of course since i dont have such an godly item O.o

what shield is ur dream + sanct made out of, i would assume sacred targe b/c high block and high smite dmg, but correct me if im wrong.

and did u put any in str? b/c i did put around 50 str or so, is that a bad thing?

last question: do u think ar charms alone, w/o the life will suffice?

sorry for all the questions, my dream charger isnt bad, but it isnt great, thats why i need all the help O.o

[Ouallada]

hmmmm by HS u mean holy shield right? and usually what is ur ar with all ur charms and angelics and such on? minus the rare zerk of course since i dont have such an godly item O.o

Yup holy shield. Sorry for the confusion with holy shock.

what shield is ur dream + sanct made out of, i would assume sacred targe b/c high block and high smite dmg, but correct me if im wrong.

Sacred targe, but that is for really extreme cases, like doom blizz sorcs, and I don't like the idea of pgemmed shields.

and did u put any in str? b/c i did put around 50 str or so, is that a bad thing?

I put in about 18points for str to hold a zerk and not be dependent on a single piece of equipment. I was originally using 0 pts in str, but I realised that I could not switch out my rare belt for tgods easily, so I added the points. been really good.

last question: do u think ar charms alone, w/o the life will suffice?

I don;t think so. You need the life first and foremost.

As for AR, with doom I get slightly more than 20k on charge/convic. With crescent moon/grief, slightly more than 19k. The angelics etc are just for really really extreme cases.

sorry for all the questions, my dream charger isnt bad, but it isnt great, thats why i need all the help

Dreamers arent very good chars to begin with. I really suffer a lot against windys, certain barbs, smiters and some hdins. Trapsins and casters are pretty easy though.

[kohlman]

Zons seem to be a cakewalk as well, all of them. from the cs zons to the ga zons. since they dont like to get in range of melee damage, they lack defense in most aspects. this leaves them with low resistances and defense. this makes them easy targets for a charging dreamer that can outrun arrows =)

there are the few exceptions to all characters including zons who maketheir build to negate another, but for the most part, zons are my easiest duel.

[Ouallada]

Zons are still dangerous if you are not using shaftstop, which happens often in pubs where you need coh for stack or nigma to tele. CS ones are easy, but well-built bowas are tough

[kohlman]

I think that the ppl in the pubbies on west non-ladder are stupid then cause they dont get many hits in and i seem to be a poor excuse for a dueler (which is why i like the dreamer). I seem to have no trouble with bowazons due to charge and the desynch. They also dont know how to duel a dreamer on non-ladder which gives me the upper hand =)

[hardnfast]

I wouldn't bother maxing holy shield the added defense is of no use vs most classes and maxed smite with grief will give higher damage.

[Ouallada]

However, you will own those classes that the def is useless against, while said defense is terribly useful against classes that have a natural advantage over dreamers.

[hardnfast]

I've tried both and prefered the 1 point hs. Make a list of the main builds you duel in pubs and for the most part defense becomes abit of a non issue particually as a barb will kill you regardless of your defense.

Out of interest what defense do you achieve with your maxed hs? From memory (I deleted that dreamer) myn only reached 10k with ber'd shaft/dream ST/Dream grand crown/verdungos

[Ouallada]

With caster setup I am at 13k. If I switched in the melee setup I would go higher.

I will do the exact numbers later, but if I only used a single point, I would only be at around 7k defense, which is miserable against melee classes. Zeal is probably better than smite against barbs, esp as I use a fool's/cruel/ias rare to zeal. Smite is probably definitely used for druids and zealots, as well as BvBs.