Poll on the Most Skill Required pvp build

[thefrag]

I've never been a fan of easymode play, and get a lot of satisfaction out of playing a hard to master build and dominating with it. That said I'm interested in what you guys all feel the most skill intensive build is. Now I don't mean like a grimward barb, because while it would take an insane amount of personal ability to pull that crap off, I do want results that when mastered, the char can really be a monster, even if still beatable.

So far I personally believe a good Hybrid sin to require the most skill to play effectively and rock hard in a public duel game. A well played one can pretty much take all other classes out, but that's the hard part, playing one well. Mastering tri-whirls, learning when and how to attack with melee, and balancing traps for side damage and stun can take some practice, especially against mobile enemies.

Also what do you guys think would be the least skill intensive char? I gotta say auradins take this spot for me =p

[mainaman]

here is my take at this

bvc
sin sybrids such as kicker/bow, ghost
v/t, mage,
might be missing some tho

[Rabbitz]

Pure Ghost Sin
BvC
Kick/Trapper
Mage

[Moritz]

Pure Ghost Sin
BvC
Kick/Trapper
Mage

I agree with you, Rabbi x]

[Ouallada]

Pure Ghost Sin
BvC
Kick/Trapper
Mage

Quoted for truth.

[crawlingdeadman]

Also what do you guys think would be the least skill intensive char? I gotta say auradins take this spot for me =p
any character built for pure melee duels.

[Ouallada]

^I think that honour should belong to pure summon necromancers.

[inanefedaykin]

BvC
Flaming Rabies builds

[ulmty]

Flaming Rabies builds

I have one of these and the hard part I find is the low life, and the large amount of synergies. IE FC,rabies,2xfc synergies, and sneaking 10pts into psn creeper. This leaves only one pt in lycan/oak/wolf. Thats why I'm rebuilding into a fury/rabies, that and the etomb I bought.

[inanefedaykin]

A melee glass cannon without teleport. If that doesn't take skill I don't know what does.

[Ouallada]

^So basically a bowa?

[inanefedaykin]

Except bowas aren't melee.

[Summerfun]

Mage
Hybrid sin

[Miikai]

Bow/Fury Wolf

Only heard of this build, never seen.

[Ouallada]

Except bowas aren't melee.

Meh, pedant. :P

[crawlingdeadman]

Bow/Fury Wolf

Only heard of this build, never seen.

wow i can only imagine how hard that'd be to play with.

[mephiztophelez]

my $0.02:

ww/kick'sins (speeder'sins)

and

BvC's <-- my 'standard' 200+ ping makes these nigh-on impossible for me ply effectivly

[wizAdept]

Kinda hard to answer this question, cause truth is just about any class takes a bit of learning. You can be a hammerdin just charging back and forth in the moor and get kills without knowing what the hell you are doing, but playing a hammerdin effectivly against gg players can be very very difficult.

For me, coming from playing assassins for so long, I found a bvc difficult to play because of the limitation of skills, you only have leap, zerk, unsummon, tele, ww. This was difficult for me because I was used to characters that had instant stun spells and other attacks.
On the other hand some players coming from using wwbarbs find wwsins and assassins in general very difficult because of the use of damage over time and use of multiple skills instead of one main form of damage.

I'll tell ya from my experience kicksin (bowsin) took me a very long time to learn to duel with properly, and I enjoyed the learning experience very much, only single character that kept me playing the same build for so long.

[Skull Bash]

Well, hybrid sins certainly look difficult to master, although I've never tried one(but the more i see of them the more i want to). But in my experience, learning to master Armageddon and the skill timers effectively on a Fire Druid in a duel environment was about the hardest.

[Moritz]

For me, coming from playing assassins for so long, I found a bvc difficult to play because of the limitation of skills, you only have leap, zerk, unsummon, tele, ww. This was difficult for me because I was used to characters that had instant stun spells and other attacks.

On the other hand some players coming from using wwbarbs find wwsins and assassins in general very difficult because of the use of damage over time and use of multiple skills instead of one main form of damage.



Heh funny, I just started practising with a bvc a few days ago in private IP games with edited 'legit' chars (similar to d2pk if you want so), and your description depicts 100% what I felt.
I consider myself as a more or less experienced assassin player, including WW-sins.
But it's just a totally different thing on a bvc, I wouldn't have thought that before I tried it out. I am just too used to ''prepare'' my melee attacks with stunlocks or at least I can often keep my opponents in trouble with traps so they don't start northshooting when I teletalon them etc.
Bvc is just about teleing on/near your opponent without even having a namelock before (exception are unsummon locks) and triwhirl them - on an assassin almost nothing works without namelocks.
That's weird because wwsin and bvc seem similar but are totally diffrent in handling.

[erians]

Real builds:
Hybrid sins
BvC
Mage

Basicaly most Hybrids are required more skill, but there are ofc exceptions. Hybrid = more skills = more skills to master & more hotkeys & more rapid skill switches. As for Bow/Fury hybrids, thats not really a "real" build, there are a bunch of wierd and insane hybrids that doesnt really work unless in the hands of a super-natural uber-d0rk with liek 1337 zKiLLz. Least skill required is probably BvBs, just WW around with a million defence. Or possibly pure FoH palas, just letting Conv tap a player then click (u dont even have to name lock, a click close to the player sets off a FoH o.O).

[Amaruak]

Least skill:

any pala with foh..
bone necs
fball sorcs
any class that revolves around defensive tele spamming basicly. sure you can play them offensivly, but you get my gist.

[elmek]

Out of what I tried so far, must be a mage. So many skill/aura switches I was getting a headache...

[MysticDragon]

[QUOTE=Amaruak;5583505]Least skill:

any pala with foh..
QUOTE]

Well... Some of us mentioned a Mage.

[jakotaco]

if someone manages to play competitively with a phoenix striker I'm sure that would count as a skilled dueler... but guess that was not what the question was about :rolleyes:

[Ouallada]

Well, yeah. A mage is super hard to play perfectly. My fingers get entangled from all the hotkeying. A pure foh is devoid of skill requirements, but I'm thinking a summon necro is worse. At least the foh pally needs to desync.

[Rabbitz]

Out of what I tried so far, must be a mage. So many skill/aura switches I was getting a headache...

I should let u play on my assa just to mess with ur head =D

[ThatWasShockin]

Mage hotkeys
throw
tele
hammer
conc
foh
conv
charge
vigor
holy freeze
fant
smite
battle orders
battle command
holy shield

wwsin hotkeys
psychic hammer
light sentry
mind blast
wake of fire
battle orders
battle command
ww
tele
fade
venom
shadow
cloak of shadows
kick
throw
burst of speed
dragon flight
blade shield
balde fury

Hmm, wwsins only have a few more skills to hotkey then a mage. The wwsin is a bit easier to play for me tho, although I don't find either hard to play.

[elmek]

I should let u play on my assa just to mess with ur head =D
Yeah, I can imagine Rab :wink3:
Windy is fine for me so far, however on the other hand, I always wanted to master assas. Looks like I never had the luck to come across a decent claw to start one :undecided:

[elmek]

Mage hotkeys
throw
tele
hammer
conc
foh
conv
charge
vigor
holy freeze
fant
smite
battle orders
battle command
holy shield

wwsin hotkeys
psychic hammer
light sentry
mind blast
wake of fire
battle orders
battle command
ww
tele
fade
venom
shadow
cloak of shadows
kick
throw
burst of speed
dragon flight
blade shield
balde fury

Hmm, wwsins only have a few more skills to hotkey then a mage. The wwsin is a bit easier to play for me tho, although I don't find either hard to play.
Many of the wwsin's hothey's are buff types, so as the final conclusion, it does not turn out that bad I guess. At least you do not have to set one skill to activate another, like conc/hammer, conv/foh, fana/smite. That sucks on a Mage, at least for me.

[ThatWasShockin]

I just keep the skills like that right next to each other, that makes it pretty easy.

[Ouallada]

I would add holy shock to the list of mage hotkeys. Useful against certain necro hybrids and possibly druids to get rid of minions that have low life. Can finish off low life opponents as well at a better range than foh. Higher level means better radius than holy freeze. For pubs, where everything generally degrades into a bad mannered cesspool, I often use cleansing and meditation too. Gear switch should also be counted as a hotkey, because the switch gear is typically foh sided.

I found a mage hard when I started it because hammer and foh are not intuitively compatible, not in the way ww and traps are, or the way smite and foh are. At first, the temptation was to be defensive, as hammers and foh are great defensive weapons when used that way, but they seemed mutually exclusive at first. For a mage to go offensive, the player has to make foh and hammer combine instead of using them independently, while desyncing and using holy freeze to stop desync and to keep opponents within range. I can't really speak for a trap hybrid, but at the least the traps act as a passive source of damage, while the mage has to juggle two sources of damage. A trap hybrid's real difficulty probably lies with maintaining mobility, trap coverage and correct WW movements, while intercepting opponents with WWs and MBs.

That said, BVCs are near impossible to play perfectly as well, as are ghosts, the latter because you lack the damage from traps, so opponents can focus on venom/ow singly and react accordingly.

[elmek]

I would add holy shock to the list of mage hotkeys. Useful against certain necro hybrids and possibly druids to get rid of minions that have low life.

Dunno why, but only auradin pulses clear my wolves efficiently. Definitely not a holy-shock flashes of a mages. At least it never worked against my windy so far...:thumbsup:

[Ouallada]

Well, auradin pulses are coupled with convic. Mage pulses are without. Either convic or pulse. The thing is that when minions have low life, a pulse could kill a couple, which is more efficient than hammer or foh.

Holy shock is decent at killing low life zons as well, as they cant dodge, and it is irritating to kill a zon with 1 life with hammer or foh.

[Rabbitz]

Yeah, I can imagine Rab :wink3:
Windy is fine for me so far, however on the other hand, I always wanted to master assas. Looks like I never had the luck to come across a decent claw to start one :undecided:

Ahh =D , should have asked me earlier, I gave kijya almost a whole setup to toy with =P

[elmek]

It happens very rarely for minions to have low life, they are either dead or full.
Anyway, mage has really hard time with windy, nothing to elaborate about here.

Also for killing low life zons, I'd choose foh. Can it be dodged?

[elmek]

Ahh =D , should have asked me earlier, I gave kijya almost a whole setup to toy with =P
Nooo :cry: Well, perhaps he'll make more use out of it, I do not have much time nowadays to play anyway, will get better in July.
So you do not play anymore?

EDIT: Sorry Mike, I just reminded myself, that the edit button is there for a reason :rolleyes:
My bad.

[Rabbitz]

I kinda still do =D but I've gotten quite some richer since u left =P . I got a tuned double outfit for my char and the previous one I was using for Kijya. Also upgraded N4blers char =D

[erians]

It happens very rarely for minions to have low life, they are either dead or full.
Anyway, mage has really hard time with windy, nothing to elaborate about here.

Also for killing low life zons, I'd choose foh. Can it be dodged?

Yep, but usualy zons can be killed with 1-2 convicted FoHs, so dodge is imo not a very big problem.

[Uncle_Mike]

I kinda still do =D but I've gotten quite some richer since u left =P . I got a tuned double outfit for my char and the previous one I was using for Kijya. Also upgraded N4blers char =D

newsflash: we have an OT thread :wave:

:tongue:

[Rabbitz]

Sorry =(

Pure Ghost Sin
BvC
Kick/Trapper
Mage

Quoted for truth then!

[elmek]

Quoted for truth then!
Yup, I guess we all assumed you were saying the truth back then, Rab :wink3:

That Speeder's assa build looks especially crazy hard to master, after reading the guide some time ago.

[HappyAssassin]

BvC or pure Ghost, they both have their challanges, they both involve perfect triwhirls, which are very hard to get down.

[Cppo-The-Wild]

Fire elemental druids ain't that easy either...

-Cppo

[Ouallada]

^Especially when opponents stack. :)

[rainbowpen]

first thing i thot was fire druid lol..cant even win when ppl put on like..80 res >.>

waterwalks ftw lol

are there any hard zons to master?
maybe like..psn/bow?

[wizAdept]

cs/plague hybrid zons are fairly difficult to play if you are looking for a difficult zon to master.

cs in general takes a while to master to legit fc every time, and takes being a very fast namelocker to use properly.

[inanefedaykin]

The only psn/bowazon I know is cdm's level 30 one. His bow damage isn't exceptional but the poison damage is scary as hell, if it wasn't easy to dodge it would be a pretty gg build. Overall the gameplay is simple for most duels so to answer your question no, zons are easy.

I also see every legit fcer say it takes practice but once you get the hang of it it's very easy to farcast legitly.

[tSDt]

I think WW/trapper would be hard to master.

Having to lay traps while mb + ww all at the same time seems hard to do. This could be especially hard without tele.

[ThatWasShockin]

The only psn/bowazon I know is cdm's level 30 one. His bow damage isn't exceptional but the poison damage is scary as hell, if it wasn't easy to dodge it would be a pretty gg build. Overall the gameplay is simple for most duels so to answer your question no, zons are easy.

I also see every legit fcer say it takes practice but once you get the hang of it it's very easy to farcast legitly.

Legit fc is very easy once you get the hang of it.

[CaptnSparrow]

Ghost
BvC
WW/Trap



Top 3. WW/Trap > Kick/Trap since WW requires more skill to lock down, in my opinion.

[Rune-Templar]

If someone could make pvp spearazon build, I'd be impressed. I don't even see pvm spearazons.

[wizAdept]

people have made spearazons on d2pk, they are entertaining, but have sever limiations. Some opponents like winddruids just stomp them really bad and there is nothing they can do. And the no block or hp means opponents like barbs can pk them really fast.

It's not really a difficult build to play, just very fragile, and can get killed by evadelock like any other zon. The way players have built spearzons is to take advantage of d2pk's rare import weapons and use 450ed/+ rare eth spears, with an all str zon build. enigma with a bit of fcr, and go telestomping people in pub games to wtfpwn them with some rediculous damage. If they hit they kill, if they dont they are very fragile and get killed fast. Entertaining build, not too difficult to play from a gameplay perspective just.. very fragile and a limited build because of this.

[TheJezus]

The more switches you need, the more difficult is the char to master effectively. Mage, V/t etc. I have 6 maxed chars and the hardest to play is my V/t. Ofc a to master hamemrdin is certainly not easy without talent and some basic IQ.

[StrawberryCake]

BvC, Hybse

[SicHalo]

for me i use all three;

mage
BvC
ww/trapper

all of these build have a degree of high skill needed just to get average pub kills


some of the least skilled builds i tried was;

auradin/foh
bvb

hold down charge most of the time w8ing for "slain message" to appear occasionally change to foh to kill of dieing or absing opponment on my fire dmg.

in bvb u simply hold down ww and whirl through ur opponment..

not much skill what can i say..

then a build that i beileve relies on ur opponment skill and possibly team dueling;

glass bowazon

ga + run put some multi lf on switch in the mix... did not like cuz i spent most of the time dieing and this build relies more on the person ur dueling skill lvl and luck...

plus vs block chars it seemed like not much hope, as for smiters.... even worst