Question about Fishymancer

[IntelligentX]

Thanks to this long ladder season I am out of stuff to play. So I have start thinking about a fishymancer, a necromancer who will use raise skeleton as main skill.

As the skeletons only use melee attack, will it not viable at Chaos Sanctuary as iron maiden present in that area?

Here is my thoughts on skill point allocation:
20 to Skeleton mastery
20 to Raise Skeleton
20 to corpse explosion
1 to raise skeleton mage
1 to revive
1+ to clay golem (Probably main golem for slow purpose)
1 to iron golem (in case I need meditation)
1 to golem mastery
1+ to summon resist
1 to teeth
1 to bone armor
1 to bone wall
1 to bone prison
On curse tag, all will be placed one point except attract and lower resist
total 79 skills

Is this skill allocation looks good? If not any recommendation?

Thanks for any replies!

[Mikk0]

core looks real nice and summoners can be build and playd suiting everyones needs, heres what i did

mages are handy so i would max them out (i did)

i tossed 1 pt to all curses just for the sake of the spammin opportunity

fire golem is fun if rushing screwing around in normal (and gives sync to toher golems)

i didint bother with the bone armor etc, never felt the need for that


im still stuck @ lvl 95 with 7 or 8 avaivable skill points, i just feel like i dont need anything :scratch:

necs can do cs.. infy on a merc for boosted dmg of ce/mages and easyer hitting for skellies/revives. my necs merc uses insight for the medi since ce/revive/tele costs alot of mana and i hate pots :shocked:

do i dare to ask what you'll be wearing? im curious..

[IntelligentX]

I seriously have no idea, cause I never build a necromancer before...
Either Enigma for mobility, or COH for resistances.

[Mikk0]

well generaly when building summoner based builds i'dd go for enigma just for the fact that it gives you the ultimate control of the minions

after enigma anything else is up for customising to suit your style of play :grin:

[FrankWest]

Yeah, if you have an option of going with Enigma - take it in a heartbeat. Without it, your army will do as it pleases. With it, you can focus on an enemy of your choosing/pull them instantly back if the IM gets to be a problem. Which, by the way, it has never been for me. Not entirely sure why, but my skellies never seem too concerned with IM. It'll kill my merc instantly, but my army always manages to hang in there. And if it gets to be a problem, use your teleport to back off a little and hide behind your army until it wears off. Revives in the CS will also help you considerably. Those Pit Lords + Urdars are indispensible.

[IntelligentX]

Thanks for the advices!
By the way, max block or not? It seems necromancer will stay at back, but will it get hit often?

[FrankWest]

Thanks for the advices!
By the way, max block or not? It seems necromancer will stay at back, but will it get hit often?

No, not at all. Mine has about ~50%, with a Homunculus, and I can't remember the last time I died without it involving me being incredibly foolish. I have just enough Dex for a hel'ed Wizardspike (60, naked, and even that is excessive and has had me contemplating re-building from time to time out of sheer vanity) and I rarely get hit. Pump all your points not needed for gear into Vitality and it really won't matter if you do get hit a couple times - you'll have the army to back you up and enough HP to survive anything except for a full-fledged unique pack of Burning Souls zap - and even that is managable.

I wouldn't even consider going for a decent block % with a Fishy. It's absolutely not needed. You're in good hands with your summons. :thumbsup:

And if it's feasible for you to leech/stagger-around-with-low-req-gear your way to 65, with a Bplate or Mplate Enigma, you actually wouldn't need to put any points into anything other than Vitality at all...

[Mikk0]

well i went for max blcok with homun cause it helps when teleing and vs ranged idiots (slingers with pierce) :rolleyes:

and you will have stats points to burn cause of the base str and base energy

[bmathew]

On curse tag, all will be placed one point except attract and lower resist

Denied! :grin: Put a point in Attract for getting that beginning corpse easily and not having your Merc swarmed. its an awesome crowd control spell. Im pretty sure you wont regret that one point being loss with all those + skills in the end.

Get lower resist as well. That point might make a Immune to Fire and Physical monster to Immune to Physical only. hence allowing some damage to be done with Corpse Explosion.

By the way, max block or not? It seems necromancer will stay at back, but will it get hit often?

I defintely say GO for Max block. Its not like that extra points you invest in Vitality is going to give you a ton load of hp anyway. Further more it helps if you teleport into a monstergroup by accident. If you have an Anni and Torch its not like you have to invest so much anyway so plan the max block with your gear in consideration.

[FrankWest]

Get lower resist as well. That point might make a Immune to Fire and Physical monster to Immune to Physical only. hence allowing some damage to be done with Corpse Explosion.

I defintely say GO for Max block. Its not like that extra points you invest in Vitality is going to give you a ton load of hp anyway. Further more it helps if you teleport into a monstergroup by accident. If you have an Anni and Torch its not like you have to invest so much anyway so plan the max block with your gear in consideration.

1) Agreed. Since CE is 1/2 each Fire and Physical, I always LR the PIs before CEing them. It's almost as good as Amping non-PIs before CEing them. Definitely worth a garbage point, here.

2) Well if you tele into a mob, you're teleporting your army on top of you. I've done this boneheaded maneuver many-a-time, and my meatshields have always taken the brunt. Just be sure to tele just around to the very outside of them as soon as you can react to your situation, and let your army decimate theirs. Trying to WALK out, yeah, that'd get a man killed. :grin: I understand the motive behind maxing block for situations like this, but it still strikes me as a poor use of stat points. As you say, torch + anni + gear will have you at a decent block % anyway, so shooting for a universal 75% is overkill.

Ultimately, I think it's just a 'different strokes for different folks' decision. There's no real harm in maxing block (a couple hundred less life, big whoop, you're getting hit less) or not touching Dexterity (15% less chance to block, big whoop, you're almost never getting hit anyway and now you've got a couple hundred more life) so ultimately it will come down to playing style and personal taste. :thumbsup:

I'm certainly not going to go all claws-and-fangs either way - the Fishy is such a versatile and well-situated build, it's really open for personal touches more than any other build out there.

[GotFriana]

I ve tried both all vita and max block with homunculus, as already said here both builds are almost the same there isnt much difference in your life by the end and you shouldnt get hit too often. Anyways I prefer max block, it is like a treat to block that only hit that went through from time to time. Plus you dont really need a high defense whether you go max block or not so you dont have to invest much in str either, those points go to life, get enigma in a light armor like Mage Plate. Socket a Pdiamond in a homunculus (I think there s no better shield for a summoner), after that is very easy to reach max resists with rares and a few charms, Arm of King Leoric as wand or Hoto and you are finished.

[bmathew]

Well if you tele into a mob, you're teleporting your army on top of you. I've done this boneheaded maneuver many-a-time, and my meatshields have always taken the brunt.

Whenever I do this with my Skellies I take the damage :/ and Golem. however I dont take it if I have revives which are huge like Urdars. I guess teleblobbing is efficent to a certain extent but Im definitely nto convinced ti would protect the necro from everything melee.

Ultimately, I think it's just a 'different strokes for different folks' decision. There's no real harm in maxing block (a couple hundred less life, big whoop, you're getting hit less) or not touching Dexterity (15% less chance to block, big whoop, you're almost never getting hit anyway and now you've got a couple hundred more life) so ultimately it will come down to playing style and personal taste.

I believe this is the ultimate truth of whether one should go Max Block or not...Personal choice :grin:

[IntelligentX]

At the moment my necromancer is level 60 and I have put like 200 stat points into vitality. Not sure if I am going for block or vita, therefore I have some stat point unused.

Now I have a question about mercenary:
At the moment my act 2 prayer mercenary is using insight so it can provide mana for spectacular-looking corpse explosion, add that double healing rocks too. But to benefit my skeletons more, I have some options on polearm here:
1. Insight, ie current one, for double healing.
2. Pride with might aura, for raw damage
3. Infinity, increase chance to hit for skeletons + increase corpse explosion damage. May slightly help those magi a bit, but won't help a lot cause I have only put a point into magi.
4. +4 skill arioc's needle with might aura, poorman's pride
5. (Your input)

Any input/experiences will be appreciated!
BTW, I quite like summoner now, it is like, 20 vs 1 when fighting bosses, although they are actually quite weak =X

[Eilo Rytyj]

yeah, go the old Infinity+Might merc. It's been done to death, and EVERYONE uses it, but it works and it's probably the best. I'd also suggest to you to max out those Magi, not only for their damage, but for the numbers. More minions around means more targets for monsters and less chance of monsters targeting you. It also means more overall damage your army is doing, and what people don't realise is that Summoners are all about strength in numbers. The more minions you have, the more you're gonna pwn.

I personally don't go with max block, because I'd rather use a +3 Boneflame or Darkspawn as a main shield instead of Homunculus, purely because they're +1 Summoning Skills higher than Homunculus. Getting max block with one of those requires way too much dex. Avoiding those Slingers is about as easy as walking a little to the left or right, you aren't going to be doing much else while your minions are killing things.

As for the Teleporting dilemma... Just keep an eye where you're teleporting! Teleport a little to the left of a big mob of monsters so they don't eat you alive.

A Summoner Necro still makes a decent Chaos and WSK runner, even with the threat of Iron Maiden. I've had Chaos runs where my merc hasn't died, even while affected by IM. Quick reflexes with teleporting, and a TP to town to clear the IM is all it takes, even though it's annoying as hell to do it each time. Tele-bombing Oblivion Knights fixes the Iron Maiden problem quickly, and doing it with Revived Doom Knights and Urdars makes it even easier.

And yes, it will seem like they're pretty weak at the moment, but just wait until you get your minions to slvl 35 or higher... you'll be the king of PvM, and you'll know about it too.

[IntelligentX]

Cool, I will use infinity with might then.
I am thinking of using an low requirement weapon on him, as I have the access of life tap so if he is iron maidened he won't get himself killed in one hit. Even he is low in life, I can always give him pots or life tap a monster. Is that good enough?

[Stompwampa]

I've found the by using Decrepify in the Chaos Sancuary prevents the Oblivion Knights from using IM...I'm not sure why, and i'm not sure if it really works that way, but I have NEVER had a problem with IM when I've used Decrepify.

[Mad Mantis]

Taking away his toy when in areas with IM is also a good way to keep him alive.

[IntelligentX]

Thanks for the advices everyone, infinity seems does better than pride in terms of overall killing. But know that CE is VERY mana consuming, I plan to use a insight iron golem, so should I max iron golem or golem mastery?

[bmathew]

Thanks for the advices everyone, infinity seems does better than pride in terms of overall killing. But know that CE is VERY mana consuming, I plan to use a insight iron golem, so should I max iron golem or golem mastery?

Max Golem Mastery. Before you quit Diablo make sure you have your summoning gear on because the next time when you open diablo cause if I recall right the golem takes the stats of the skills on the character when you start Diablo. You might want to reconfirm this. Also if you open the trade window I think the same thing happens when opening the trade window. Refer to message on the Home page. Someone might want to reconfirm this though.

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

I confirm that I have read on these forums what bmathew refers to regarding starting Diablo 2 (and the trade window) vs Iron Golem.

[DoWatThouWilt]

I currently have a lvl 88 fishy who does very well in the WSK, Pits, Chaos Sanc, and Meph. Here's some advice from my own personal experience.

You have to realize that this game is NOT all about theory and numbers - experience far outweighs theory here. In my experience, gameplay generaly goes like this: You're walking through the pits. A horde of monsters rush at you and land 2-3 hits before you take a few steps back and cast Attract/Amp. Your skellies are very quick to rush in and block for you. It won't take long before a monster is killed, and then 1-2 CEs clears the screen.

Therefore I've found that having Max Block/Bone Armor speeds up gameplay. It ALLOWS you to run in front of your skellies without dying, rather than slowly inching your way.

As long as you have, say, 800 life and some experience, you'll do great. I used to have a problem with Gloams, until I learned how to fight them. Not all monsters are the same, learn to deal with them. Cast 1-2 Attract, then Amp them. If lightning is hitting you, DO NOT stand in place, move around a bit. Teleport a step to make sure all your summons are with you, and once a monster dies CE kills all Gloams. They are not scary, they are very doable.

Attract is incredible for getting the first corpse. Just attract a group and amp them, the curses 'stack'. Your merc gets one corpse down, and CE gives you 10 more. I NEVER have to go to the blood moor or pindle's garden to raise anything. I make all my skellies in the WSK.

I don't see the need for mages at all. What arguments are there for them?
1) Elemental Damage - ...Low, insignificant damage that doesn't get boosted by Might or Amp? Excellent.
2) But there will be PIs - That are handled by Amp and CE
3) They are extra meat shields - We have 12 skellies, a merc, a fire golem, and 11 Revives...so let's spend 19 points on a skill that gives us more meat shields.
4) Poison prevents monster heal - What monster are you fighting that is healing faster than 2 CEs do damage to it?
5) Cold slows act bosses down - Decrepify and Clay Golem practically paralyze the act bosses, why waste skill points to slow them more?

I can't find a legitimate argument for mages. The points could be better used to make your golem better, or to get the bone wall synergies. So there's no argument for them, it's a waste of skill points that could be used to make your fishy better, and they die every 2 seconds.


Make sure you have something with teleport. I use Enigma, but it's not 'necessary'. I would say that if you do come across some wealth, the FIRST thing you should invest in is an Enigma.

Hope this helps.

[bmathew]

I don't see the need for mages at all. What arguments are there for them?
1) Elemental Damage - ...Low, insignificant damage that doesn't get boosted by Might or Amp? Excellent.
2) But there will be PIs - That are handled by Amp and CE
3) They are extra meat shields - We have 12 skellies, a merc, a fire golem, and 11 Revives...so let's spend 19 points on a skill that gives us more meat shields.
4) Poison prevents monster heal - What monster are you fighting that is healing faster than 2 CEs do damage to it?
5) Cold slows act bosses down - Decrepify and Clay Golem practically paralyze the act bosses, why waste skill points to slow them more?




There are guides based on the damage of mages itself. Godly gear might be required but thats those builds focussing on its damage alone. Id be happy with that prevent monster heal and slow because I dont use Decrepify or the Clay Golem since I use Amp. If I was playing Hard Core I would have only gone with a few points in ce and have moved the same into more mages or maybe Bone Armor.

However in the end, its just a matter of player preference. If you ask me I wouldnt mind investing in Mages if I had the skill points.

[DoWatThouWilt]

What you're saying is that you would rather have a skill that prevents monsters from healing than a skill that actually kills monsters?

If you want to have an efficient fishy, you have to realize that the skellies are NOT your main skill - CE IS the killer. Having the largest possible radius is mandatory. This is the skill that clears the board. Skellies merely block for you and get the first corpse.

[bmathew]

What you're saying is that you would rather have a skill that prevents monsters from healing than a skill that actually kills monsters?

You are assuming that I dont have CE. Also you are disregarding Fire mages and Lightning mages which do damage as well and since I dont use Decrep I prefer the cold mages. having extra meat shields are only an added benefit.

20 CE
20 RS
20 SM
20 Golem Mastery
10 Curses
1 Teeth
3 Golems (IG,CG,BG)
1 Summon Resist
The rest in Mages.

As I said earlier. If I could remove of few points from CE I would cause I definitely dont feel like I need CE to kill that big of a radius.

If you want to have an efficient fishy, you have to realize that the skellies are NOT your main skill - CE IS the killer. Having the largest possible radius is mandatory. This is the skill that clears the board. Skellies merely block for you and get the first corpse.

Define an "efficient" fishy. For me, I would describe it as a character that can clear any area regardless of what spawns there and have fun at the same time. I can do this with my character and Im happy with it. I guess I prefer to be lazy and watch them kill pretty much everything rather than me do anything I used to use Ce but now I just use my curses and my summons usually do the rest unless I run into a PI. I can use my Curses with help of my merc also and get my first few corpses.

Ill requote what I said earlier.

However in the end, its just a matter of player preference.

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

I too enjoy (occasionally) leaving my skeles to do their work whilst I moon around, looking at drops/chests/squirrels/whatever. Sometimes it's too much effort casting spells, who wants to work for a living? :grin:

And, my mages have been known to kill things quicker than my warriors - especially at bottlenecks, where only one warrior can swing a weapon.

Player preference > anything else

[Sindus]

I highly advise putting points into dim vision even if you choose to avoid placing spare skills into curses. Dim Vision > Gloams/shamans/ranged guys

[DoWatThouWilt]

To me, 'efficient' means that not only can you clear every are of the game, but that you can also do so in a reasonable amount of time. Hence, CE.

So if you, as a 'player', 'prefer' to sit back and eat doritos while your skellies take all day to clear the WSK, fine. But you you prefer to have multiple fast mf runs, or whatever else you do, max CE.

[kykle]

if you are worried about IM, get mages... they are a million times better than everyone thinks