Bowazon PVP/PVM? possible? Worth it?

[SOJMAN]

Hello

I'm starting my first bowazon and i read the guides but I feel they are a bit dated.

Is it worth it to create a bowazon? even when pallys and sorcs seem to be the most truly overpowered classes in the game (tons of pallys out there)

I wanted a MS/GA/CS zon with the best gear i could find (i got a decent mf sorc for that)

I remember back in the days where zons would just stand outside town and whip out GA and kill everything in sight.

The Fun factor is, I like being a bowazon cuz they are a dying breed and could be awesome if the build is right.

What do you guys think?

Also ps. When people say "might merc" they mean "combat" right?

my friend's lvl 79 pally takes out everything with this BotD eth zerker ax, im looking for a counter to this.

Amazon?:prop: :prop: :prop: :prop:

[fallen angel of satan]

bowzans are awsome fun and also very powerful :) the guides might be dated but the game is old and not much has changed. I came back to the game myself last week after a few years break.

a bowzon has no problems soloing any normal content in the game at all. not tested myself against the new ubers yet though been told they are super hard for bowzon :) gonna give it a try when my gear is good enough :)

as for pvp guided arrows still owns :) just get very nice run/walk and you will own :) palas really arent much trouble at all

[Bjorgin]

as for pvp guided arrows still owns :) just get very nice run/walk and you will own :) palas really arent much trouble at all

Hmm, i beg to differ.

[ThatWasShockin]

Some pallys are hard, but you can find a way to beat any kind.

[Bjorgin]

Some pallys are hard, but you can find a way to beat any kind.

i watched a video on youtube about a bowzon vs smiter and all they did was a storm+titan switch with lightning bolt :undecided:

[ThatWasShockin]

Yeah, I personally use fury but sometimes light bolt works.

[Punkonjunk]

My FoHer takes down zons like nothing.

I would disagree with pally's being overpowered - Rather, there are so many unique builds for pallys, that it's hard not to have one. XD

[ThatWasShockin]

Fohers are acutally one of my favorite fights, usually takes 10+ fohs to hit me.

[dodobird]

I have a pure bowa and I love her. Yes, duels are harder when you have only enough life for one hit, but its a challenge and I don't want to be a pally just b/c its easier and 99.99999% of pubs go for that.

[ShazamLies]

Without a hammerdin by your side... you will PVM slower than most other paladin builds. Also your pvp skills will be great as a team, and totally fun, but certain characters you will not stand much of a chance against. Any paladin that can charge, barbs with block, wind druids, necromancers, trap assasins with block, etc etc. Bowazons have many many weaknesses including low life and relatively low damage. :shocked:

However they are stylish, fun to use, and great in parties. As standalone characters they are weak. In order to be really effective you have to be incredibly wealthy, and I took my zon into an 8-player hell game, and had lots of trouble clearing chaos or act 5. With gear such as a faith grand matron bow, fort, 120/45 helm, it still took me what seemed like DAYS to clear a pack of monsters.

[Bjorgin]

trap assasins with block


90% of bnet trappers sit in their traps and wait for you to come within range. just sit off screen and throw some GA's at them and watch them continue to sit eating arrows.

[ShazamLies]

90% of bnet trappers sit in their traps and wait for you to come within range. just sit off screen and throw some GA's at them and watch them continue to sit eating arrows.

max block through SS or have decent claw block, they teleport up to you and then what? mindblast/traps/ww/shadowmaster will > GA's lock abilities. Especially since you will be stuck dodging or in hit recovery because of low res...

teleport, mindblast namelock, teleport, mindblast namelock, traps here and there, wait for shadow master to dragon flight... block destroys bowzons unless the character has pidly dr/poisonres/life :cry:

[ThatWasShockin]

Your name says it all, you lie haha. Bowas are awesome characters and once you learn to use them there arent alot of fights you will lose. Low damage? You consider 5-7k shooting at 7 frames low? Not all of them have low life either, if you only get enough dex for max block with titans and ss on switch you can have over 2k life without bo.

[PFSS]

Without a hammerdin by your side... you will PVM slower than most other paladin builds.
This is incorrect.

Bowazons have many many weaknesses including low life and relatively low damage. :shocked:
Low Damage?!

[ShazamLies]

5-7k damage... pfft!!

In real life my last name is very closely linked to LIES hahaha...

But anyhoo, bowzons with 5k-7k damage PHYSICAL is PIDDLY SQUAT. And as we all know massive 300+ psn sc's will suck in pvm and pvp they are easily negatable. 5-7k damage, compare that to any other decent character? (Zons can't even make use of crushing blow as much as other builds can because of the ranged penalty)

Zealer, Smiter, Barbarian, can all pull max damages higher than 10k AND hit faster/more reliably. (Except in certain areas where strafe/multi help)
Most other casters with the exception of wind druids and necros will outdamage the zon BY FAR.

I not saying that the bowazon is ineffective, but given the SAME amount of wealth and put to proper use on most other chars, you will both PVM and PVP better.

Lets say the zon does 6k physical damage? Take that you add the pvp penalty, you now do 1k damage. Factor in 50% DR it is now 500 damage. Factor in either max block or summons... on average you will have to shoot 4 guided arrows to do 500 damage...

And zons that do have life are still going to have to sacrifice their damage, even with inventory full of 3/20/20's you're going to get one-shot by most characters unless you luck out on dodges... (that stop you from attacking/running anyways)

[ThatWasShockin]

5-7k damage... pfft!!

In real life my last name is very closely linked to LIES hahaha...

But anyhoo, bowzons with 5k-7k damage PHYSICAL is PIDDLY SQUAT. And as we all know massive 300+ psn sc's will suck in pvm and pvp they are easily negatable. 5-7k damage, compare that to any other decent character? (Zons can't even make use of crushing blow as much as other builds can because of the ranged penalty)

Zealer, Smiter, Barbarian, can all pull max damages higher than 10k AND hit faster/more reliably. (Except in certain areas where strafe/multi help)
Most other casters with the exception of wind druids and necros will outdamage the zon BY FAR.

I not saying that the bowazon is ineffective, but given the SAME amount of wealth and put to proper use on most other chars, you will both PVM and PVP better.

Lets say the zon does 6k physical damage? Take that you add the pvp penalty, you now do 1k damage. Factor in 50% DR it is now 500 damage. Factor in either max block or summons... on average you will have to shoot 4 guided arrows to do 500 damage...

And zons that do have life are still going to have to sacrifice their damage, even with inventory full of 3/20/20's you're going to get one-shot by most characters unless you luck out on dodges... (that stop you from attacking/running anyways)

Have you ever made a bowzon? If not I suggest you do, if you have I suggest you remake her cuz you obviously did something wrong if this is how you think.

[jinzo]

5-7k damage... pfft!!

In real life my last name is very closely linked to LIES hahaha...

But anyhoo, bowzons with 5k-7k damage PHYSICAL is PIDDLY SQUAT. And as we all know massive 300+ psn sc's will suck in pvm and pvp they are easily negatable. 5-7k damage, compare that to any other decent character? (Zons can't even make use of crushing blow as much as other builds can because of the ranged penalty)

Zealer, Smiter, Barbarian, can all pull max damages higher than 10k AND hit faster/more reliably. (Except in certain areas where strafe/multi help)
Most other casters with the exception of wind druids and necros will outdamage the zon BY FAR.

I not saying that the bowazon is ineffective, but given the SAME amount of wealth and put to proper use on most other chars, you will both PVM and PVP better.

Lets say the zon does 6k physical damage? Take that you add the pvp penalty, you now do 1k damage. Factor in 50% DR it is now 500 damage. Factor in either max block or summons... on average you will have to shoot 4 guided arrows to do 500 damage...

And zons that do have life are still going to have to sacrifice their damage, even with inventory full of 3/20/20's you're going to get one-shot by most characters unless you luck out on dodges... (that stop you from attacking/running anyways)

i have a bow zon and she has 4.5k dmg with lvl 9 GA and can chaos 8 player game:flip:

[ShazamLies]

i have a bow zon and she has 4.5k dmg with lvl 9 GA and can chaos 8 player game:flip:

How long does this take soloing chaos in a 8p game?

I've made a bowzon before with all of the right gear... and it would take a lot of multi's/strafe's before I got anywhere. And 4.5k dmg is your max damage listed right? Almost all other characters I've made aside from my necro has had AVERAGE damages THOUSANDS higher. (not to mention they also do more damage per frame)

Can you kill diablo in an 8pl game solo in under 3 minutes? Or solo the throne room? Without teleport you have to run there, and with low life you're gonna have to kill everything in your path, you can't afford to run past them...

I'm not saying bowazons are impossible, but for their money they are SLOWWWWWWWWW

Have you ever tried them pvp? They are essentialy a team character. They need protection. Even the best bowzons I have faced can't handle most characters that have max block (aside from hdins) Only way you are going to beat classes like bvc's, windies, necros, etc are if the other play is poorer or less skilled

[ThatWasShockin]

It takes under 10 minutes to kill everything from the waypoint to diablo in a chaos game. Diablo takes around a minute, that's not that long. Killing everything in the path just means you get more exp.

In pvp they do great solo, they just do alot better in teams because people have the same thoughts you do about them thinking that they suck and ignore them.

Take a look in the pvp forum for bowzon vids. Here's a few of my own and I'm not even that experienced with one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-F-IV3CrUY -that is vs. mysticdragon, a skilled bvc player. Both of the zons in that are pure dex.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfWJo-v8ZFk

Try watching some of the other people like stuslegend on his zon. He's in 2nd place on the east ladder right now I believe.

What realm do you play? I'm sure there a bowa on there that would love to duel you.

[ShazamLies]

It takes under 10 minutes to kill everything from the waypoint to diablo in a chaos game. Diablo takes around a minute, that's not that long. Killing everything in the path just means you get more exp.

In pvp they do great solo, they just do alot better in teams because people have the same thoughts you do about them thinking that they suck and ignore them.

Take a look in the pvp forum for bowzon vids. Here's a few of my own and I'm not even that experienced with one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-F-IV3CrUY -that is vs. mysticdragon, a skilled bvc player. Both of the zons in that are pure dex.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfWJo-v8ZFk

Try watching some of the other people like stuslegend on his zon. He's in 2nd place on the east ladder right now I believe.

What realm do you play? I'm sure there a bowa on there that would love to duel you.

10 minutes is kinda long. For more experience its actually better to just kill the pinks and then kill diablo. There are a lot of chars that could get to and kill diablo in around 3 minutes time mainly because they don't have to clear out chaos. And throneroom is gonna be a ***** with the zon too.

Anyhoo I used to play on USWEST ladder and there the better clans like UC still couldn't field a zon that could take on well-built characters. That youtube video is actually pretty good and you/your friend did very well vs. a skilled bvc. However I think he could have tried harder...
I don't know why he didn't bust out a shield for block, especially considering you guys were pure dex. (I actually can't tell since he's str bugged but there are several scenes where he gets pummeled in a row by GA's and if he was blocking he wouldn't have been kb-locked)
He should have also used doom from the start, stops you guys from running as much and your attack speed is much slower.

Nice switch, is it a lacerator?? I remember using fury for OW on my bva O_o

Beautiful you cleared the pub. What realm is this? Its funny when someone builds a bvc (expensive to make properly) and doesn't learn how to use it. The bvc's in the pubs never heard of leaping or namelocking during the ww and they should have ran more. I think with 120 fr/w you can outrun the arrow so that you run away from the zon and teleport in so that you don't get locked.

Even vs. a bvc with no block, there are still many harder duels out there for the zon. Zons will face much more trouble with other builds that are played with skill like smiters, block/es sorcies, block necro's, block druids, block sins. I only see bowas play consistently vs. hdins, javazons, nonblock builds, and ppl who don't know what they're doing.


P.S. I'm also confused, is there a pvp ladder tourney stuslegend is 2nd place in? Or are you talking about the lvl 99 ladder thing?
Props if he did either though, even lvling to 99 with a pure bowa would be amazing...

[ThatWasShockin]

10 minutes isn't that long, but I agree other chars can do it much faster. With my mage I clear the entire chaos in about 3 minutes in a full game. The throne room is actually very easy, you cast a decoy close to where they spawn and by the time they kill it you have killed them too.

A bvc putting on a shield usually doesn't help all that much, it just lowers the chance they have to hit. He didn't use doom the entire tiem because they were gm duels. Most barbs do use a doom tho and I still kill 80% or more of them, I switch gear to ias armor and matriarchal bow to keep my speed up.

120 frw isn't enough to outrun arrows without vigor on too. It's USWest. Most smiters you can just switch and use fury, block/es sorcs aren't to bad unless they also have chilling armor or use nova. Necros and druids are pretty hard as is a good wwsin. Yes, it's a lacerator.

[ShazamLies]

10 minutes isn't that long, but I agree other chars can do it much faster. With my mage I clear the entire chaos in about 3 minutes in a full game. The throne room is actually very easy, you cast a decoy close to where they spawn and by the time they kill it you have killed them too.

A bvc putting on a shield usually doesn't help all that much, it just lowers the chance they have to hit. He didn't use doom the entire tiem because they were gm duels. Most barbs do use a doom tho and I still kill 80% or more of them, I switch gear to ias armor and matriarchal bow to keep my speed up.

120 frw isn't enough to outrun arrows without vigor on too. It's USWest. Most smiters you can just switch and use fury, block/es sorcs aren't to bad unless they also have chilling armor or use nova. Necros and druids are pretty hard as is a good wwsin. Yes, it's a lacerator.


Yay you're as bored as I am right now.

Anyhow I guess i'm coining it wrong, a BvA putting on SS nets 50 dr with a dungo's and the 75% chance to block means 1/4 of the arrows get through. And a 1 handed ww will still kill a pure dex zon if it hits.
Mmmm I was never sure the Doom BM thing because its so helpful on so many different chars O_o

Hmm, 120 fr/w might not be enuf but if a portion of it comes from increased speed than it can I'm pretty sure, because the skill boosts your inherent speed. Anyhow I know you could probably dominate most smiters, sorcs, bvc's etc (because of a difference in skill/equip, not inherent character ability). Only thing I'm trying to distinguish though is that I bet you could beat these same characters using another build with the same wealth, only difference this time is that it would probably be much easier and much more consistent.

[ThatWasShockin]

I have a temp ban right now haha melee sorcs do baal runs to fast. :grin:

BvA are very hard, but still usually a 50/50 duel. I believe he had 40+ dr in those vids. It usually takes 2 hits to die and with max block and dodges at 60+ nobody gets 2 in a row haha.

What barb has 120 frw tho? That zon is a very cheeply made zon, maybe 4 hrs total. Not many chars that can do what a bowa can when it's that cheeply made.

[ShazamLies]

Faith alone is more than 4 hrs if its nice
Then you got fort, hopefully thats a 120/45 helm and not a mavinas...
charms etc

But barbs get 120 from...

Lets say a lvl 9 increased speed from +skills and such say you get 35% frw
lets see 45 from enigma, 30 from boots, lets switch to cat's eye for the speed and dex to block another 30 frw tada!

105 fr/w from items and 35 fr/w from skills (skills matter more)

(My car I forgot last night at Golfland and I have to get picked up before I can get it back :badteeth: )

Yea but problem with the ww thing is that if you get hit once, you can get ww again. Because of the fhr animation and ww only takes 4 frames... And bva's will almost never get kb-locked.

Reason why I am so disenchanted with zons is because I put a decent amount of hrs into it, and though it was great, it was not worth the investment.
I made a 100 vita zon res into dex.
PFaith GMB
Fort
120/45 30fr/w helm
cat's eye
dual ravens
20ias kb gloves
nos coil
and some randy rare boots
Had a mix of dmg/frw charms and around 2-3000 dmg in poison.

It was fun to play but I hated shooting someone and seeing their shield block most of my attacks. Only thing that it really shined against was hammerdins. Btw how did you avoid smiters that could tele smite once you busted out your shield???

I had this idea awhile back of getting a 160/60 armor instead of fort. Get a visionary circlet, use dual angelics and maybe hsarus boot/belt combo. Max dmg/ar charms and then max strafe/penetrate. Hopefully you get high enough AR to hit a smiter on every hit of strafe... combined with knockback it might stand a chance... you'd shoot too fast for them to tele and with knockback they can't charge...

[ThatWasShockin]

My faith is a 12 1 3 haha not nice at all, and yes it's mav's helm too. I have high enough frw and dodges that telesmite rarely works. I have 20+ pvp chars geard at all times so I pick the ones that need to have the better gear and make do with the minimum on the others.

[dodobird]

Actually since you guys are discussing this anyway, I thought that I'd say that the only characters I have trouble with are smiters. Their max block along with charge is really annoying. If these buggers jump you before you're ready... no chance. Its not as bad when you're ready. I also hate going again against other bowas, just because these are always boring and are decided on who got luckier with the dodges. Also thought I'd mention auradin in the hated list, but I never consider these actual duels, just some kid that thinks all the flashy crap under his char looks cool, no skill.

You mentioned that bowas are team chars, and I have to say it looks good on paper to me, but personally I hate team dueling.

As for that video, I have to say that barb owned you, and for good reason. You stand still too much and shoot. Never do that.

For myself, I have found from experience the different strategies for all types of characters, and I don't think I'll duel with another char. Bowas are challenging because the majority of people play characters that do well against them, but thats what makes them fun.

[shaolinty]

bowas are pretty weak i think