Slayer Guard or Guardian Crown for BvB?

[mephiztophelez]

ok, i'm in the process of rebuilding my bvb. my 'inspired' overspend in Leap has proven to be complete folly. it's left me with anywhere between 13k & 19k def (testing setups: duress/fort/e-toot & various weapons), which is way too low.

for mah rebuild, i'll be pumping iron skin once shout/mastery/ww/bo are done.

so, onto the main question: do i up mah arreats?

sketchy back-of-a-coaster figures indicate its going to cost me a massive wodge of life, like somewhere above 500'ish for a total of ~3k added def (very sketchy numbers, if someone can point out a clear benefit one way or the other i'd be obliged). i have a rather nice sup'AP fort at the moment, if i up the arreats should i then bite the bullet and make a sacred fort? i'd rather not do that in all honesty.

if it helps, i'm going an AR/OW build, looking at 91% OW and somewhere in the realm of 28k+ AR. other goals are 48fhr, 50%DR, max block etc.

i'm making a GM baba, so no e-bug fort/chant/prebuff suggestions please. while my charms are 'ok', they aren't the greatest possible. mostly a motly mix of AR/Lifers of various sizes with the odd max/ar/?? thrown in. there is currently around 10-15 stat-points available to me if i build in the current charmset, yay/nay? is it worth using a couple of +DEF charms?

any bvb/bvc gods please lend me your opinions & any reasons for one choice or the other. slayer guard or guardian crown?

[Tankmobile]

if you are not going for the massive defense of using a forti with a high strength req., it aint worth it :smiley:
leave it at slayer guard unless you plan to be using sacred armour.

[marcello]

I think you shouldn't upgrade it, how much defense does it get? I don't find it worth unless it's 200%ed eth and gets a perfect upgrade. Even then I'd still be unsure wheter to use 200%ed nonupped noneth. or 200%ed eth nonupped.

[kalesh]

just get a damn guillume for bvb... 35% cb and 15% ds make a lot of different in BVB . esp cb. pure bvb barbs having 5.5k hitpoints crushing blow does makes alot of difference even though its 1/8 in pvp.

with guillume,gore and rends u can have 60% crushing blow..it would definetly be better than arreats..

if u want to stick to arreats etheral would definetly better..make sure u get a high def one(arreats defence varies a lot).

and abt upped and non upped, depends upon ur build.

[kalesh]

I think you shouldn't upgrade it, how much defense does it get? I don't find it worth unless it's 200%ed eth and gets a perfect upgrade. Even then I'd still be unsure wheter to use 200%ed nonupped noneth. or 200%ed eth nonupped.

non upped arreats are around 350def ..while upped arreats can go to 504 def max.. so i think its worth it.

Also ed dont matter much when it comes down to upped arreats coz. 170ed arreats can have more defence than a 200ed one.

ive seen people uppping there 195+ed arreats and getting a mere increase of 50 def.

So its better to buy an upped one rather than testing ur luck.

[Tankmobile]

nope,use arreats with its strength, dex bonus (saves 40 for vita)
AR% bonus
skill bonus (so dmg bonus)
and has afew juicy other mods...
CB isn't big in PvP
OW will do the most damage.
deadly strike will trigger often enough with highlords and Gores and Grief
but defnitely dont just pump strength if its purely to use arreats...
use non up'd in that instance...

[ViciousXV]

I think you shouldn't upgrade it, how much defense does it get? I don't find it worth unless it's 200%ed eth and gets a perfect upgrade. Even then I'd still be unsure wheter to use 200%ed nonupped noneth. or 200%ed eth nonupped.

highest defense eth upd arreats ive seen was 756def which is more than worth using and the str req is only 186 which is exactly what u get after u equip your ss. I dont think you should ever use a non up'd arreats unless its eth

[mephiztophelez]

thanx for all the replies. i fink i sharl leave mah helm az a slayer guard.

deadly strike will trigger often enough with highlords.....
:shocked: please tell me how i can get 28k+ AR using a HIGHLORDS :shocked:

[aiwa]

[QUOTE
:shocked: please tell me how i can get 28k+ AR using a HIGHLORDS :shocked:[/QUOTE]

ya id like to know 2.:jig:

[Tankmobile]

oops, forgot BvB dont use highlords, just angelics :smiley:
my bad lol.
but never did i mention you would get 28K+Ar with ti :thumbsup:
but anyway, there's a damned good reason most BvB's use arreats. Guillumes isn't a great helm for the job.
mods are made from elsewhere.

[hardnfast]

The only time I would use non upped arreats was if I was using zod bugged eth Fort AP. Defense > life all day long in bvb. Who cares how much life you dont have if you aren't getting hit.

[kalesh]

The only time I would use non upped arreats was if I was using zod bugged eth Fort AP. Defense > life all day long in bvb. Who cares how much life you dont have if you aren't getting hit.

:shocked: zod bugged eth fort AP:shocked:

[Summerfun]

Also ed dont matter much when it comes down to upped arreats coz. 170ed arreats can have more defence than a 200ed one.

ED% DOES matter verry much! When you upgrade a item the base def is reroled. So if you are unlucky when you upgrade an Arreats it can get lower def than a non upgraded

So when you upgrade your Arreats use only high ed ones.

Slayer Guard Arreats Face.
Base def allways 121.
Final def 302 - 363.

Guardian Crown Arreats Face.
Base def 117 - 168.
Final def 292 - 504.

If you use a 200% arreats for upgrading the def will be betwen 351 - 504
So cross your fingers! it would really BLOW to get a upgraded with lower def and higher requirements!

[hardnfast]

:shocked: zod bugged eth fort AP:shocked:

yeah, on uswest ladder. The extra life gained by using a low str requirement armor with more defense than a sacred fort. It's hard to beat those numbers legitly.

[Summerfun]

Defense > life all day long in bvb. Who cares how much life you dont have if you aren't getting hit.

This have ben discussed so manny times! And pretty much all the experts agree that there are no such thing as def/ar/life/dmg beeing more important!

You have to have a high ammount of all! But...
AR suffers from deminishing returns,
Def suffers from deminishing returns,
Damage dossent
Life dossent

So if you allredy have 20-30k def then the extra 5-10k wont do much for you,
same goes for ar.

My point beeing, dont give up life to get extra def

[kalesh]

ED% DOES matter verry much! When you upgrade a item the base def is reroled. So if you are unlucky when you upgrade an Arreats it can get lower def than a non upgraded

So when you upgrade your Arreats use only high ed ones.

Slayer Guard Arreats Face.
Base def allways 121.
Final def 302 - 363.

Guardian Crown Arreats Face.
Base def 117 - 168.
Final def 292 - 504.

If you use a 200% arreats for upgrading the def will be betwen 351 - 504
So cross your fingers! it would really BLOW to get a upgraded with lower def and higher requirements!

i was talkin abt upped arreats...not abt upgrading them...it says "UPPED ARREATS"....

[Summerfun]

dont you think its the same? Not sure what you are saying

[hardnfast]

This have ben discussed so manny times! And pretty much all the experts agree that there are no such thing as def/ar/life/dmg beeing more important!

You have to have a high ammount of all! But...
AR suffers from deminishing returns,
Def suffers from deminishing returns,
Damage dossent
Life dossent

So if you allredy have 20-30k def then the extra 5-10k wont do much for you,
same goes for ar.

My point beeing, dont give up life to get extra def

Which experts? I've read allot of threads in the barb forum and can't remember that consensus being reached... The difference between 30k and 50k defense is 4% chance to hit.

[Summerfun]

How can you say its 4%? it totaly depends on the situation.
Its not 4% if its a lvl 9 char with 100AR that attacks you.

I would rather have 50k def than 30k but if those 20k extra cost me say 1k life, than no way

[hardnfast]

How can you say its 4%? it totaly depends on the situation.
Its not 4% if its a lvl 9 char with 100AR that attacks you.

I would rather have 50k def than 30k but if those 20k extra cost me say 1k life, than no way

Same char level 20k ar from memory. (why bother mentioning lvl9 with 100ar , silly comment didn't add anything and it bloody obvious.!)

I'm happy to test your theories on open. Do you or have you actually done much BvB?

[Summerfun]

I Have done ALOT! and stile do some.
I have done bvb since 1.08 and pretty much only did bvb through 1.09.

I still do some but not as much cause i dont have as much time as i had then.
i would be more than happy to test on open, but you would have to make the char for me as i dont have any editors!

If you want to do it i would want:
Non upped arreats same % as you socket 40/9dex
Same weap as you (if Botd i might want my arreats to be upped)
Fort Archon Plate
Storm Shield same base def as you socket Cham
Draculs grasp
Verdungo same % as you
Gores upped/non upped

Perfect torch/anni
Same charms as you. Thinking 3/20/20s or 36/20s

[hardnfast]

I don't have a character editor either, when I think about it I'm not really that interested anyway. You can do things your way and I'll do mine.

I do wonder why you use the cham'd stormshield? e.g if I was dueling you using your listed gear you wouldn't be getting frozen, as is the case with most bvb gear.

[Summerfun]

Well, some BvBs have maybe an item that have cold dmg, and in that case i really love the CBF from cham. If there is no source of cold dmg, then a 40/9 dex storm or maybe even eld would be the way to go.
I just dont have enough stash space on my BvB, so i just go with the Cham'ed SS