View Full Version : New to Assassins. Looking for the best all-around PvM build.
TheMightyGoat
25-04-2007, 22:56
I played since 1.01, quit at 1.09 and only started again a few months ago. For some reason, I've never built an Assassin. So I s'pose it's time. I want to make the "best" (in terms of killing speed and survivability) PvM Assassin build that I can. Right now I'm leaning towards the Warrior-Monk, as I'd like to be able to do Ubers as well. I've read the guides, and each seems to be pretty happy with their character (or else the guide wouldn't be written, I expect), so I'm just looking for some votes from the people who've tried them.
Forgetting semantics and subjectivity, what would you say is the best Assassin build for general PvM - particularly keeping in mind souls and nastyness in Baal runs?
TheMightyGoat
26-04-2007, 08:36
Also, are the 1.09 builds still viable? If not, that really just leaves the Warrior-Monk for a melee PvM build?
Why is it that none of the guides seem too impressed with Enigma? Is the convenience of Teleport so easily outweighed with resists and damage to demons?
A warriormonk or a Flashdancer are probably the strongest builds for PvM, although any build that uses Death Sentry won't have a too hard time.
TheMightyGoat
26-04-2007, 09:08
Another question. The Warrior-Monk guide says that 32% equipment-based IAS is necessary to hit the 9/3 breakpoint. Is this excluding weapon-based IAS? How much is needed to hit the 7/3 breakpoint (without Burst of Speed)? How does this change with a Phase Blade instead of the Berserker Axe referenced in the guide? (The speed calculator linked to is down.)
mephiztophelez
26-04-2007, 09:14
ilkori'sin v1.11, flashdancer variant (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=405240)
hands down the best PvM assassin build ever. imho a warrior monk does not even rate next to a dancer.
Trapper and k/ts (Kicker/Trapper hybrids) are easily the best "all-around" PvM builds. The Warrior/Monk will excel in very specific situations (basically, the Ubers, or any other extremely high-life monster), but for general "all-around" PvM play, Trappers and k/ts will kick her butt. In addition, Trappers and k/ts are safer (a big consideration if you play Hardcore), and can even do a little bit of dueling of you're of a mind to. Not great, but better than any other PvM-based Assassin builds, no matter how great the gear.
TheMightyGoat
26-04-2007, 10:10
ilkori'sin v1.11, flashdancer variant (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=405240)
hands down the best PvM assassin build ever. imho a warrior monk does not even rate next to a dancer.
How does this build rate for Ubers?
mephiztophelez
26-04-2007, 10:33
How does this build rate for Ubers?
i've ubered with a flashdancer on a number of occasions. i do have to make a few gear switches from my general 'tool'in around in hell' gear, but it's perfectly viable.
its much more challenging than with a smiter, thats for sure.
lukefojut
26-04-2007, 13:04
I'd say a traditional trapsin, but only if:
a. You can afford Infinity
b. You don't need to do the Ubers
By traditional, I mean a lot of points into LS, DS and the synergies, some points into Shadow Master and Shadow Skills and no martial arts. It's very easy to play (and easier once your merc gets that Infinity polearm!)
TheMightyGoat
26-04-2007, 21:20
I'd say a traditional trapsin, but only if:
a. You can afford Infinity
b. You don't need to do the Ubers
By traditional, I mean a lot of points into LS, DS and the synergies, some points into Shadow Master and Shadow Skills and no martial arts. It's very easy to play (and easier once your merc gets that Infinity polearm!)
I can afford Infinity. I just don't want to make a PvM character that relies on a mercenary. I'd sooner have her tote the polearm herself.
Just FYI, I have a Warrior-Monk, and I gotta say, she's strongly recommended.
Mine's pretty decent equipped though.
She is mainly for ubers, but she works great all round. Even for packs, the trick is to kill one and place death sentrys all over^^
CE chain reactions is the **** :grin:
Anyways, like I said mine is for ubers, but as long as you make sure you have
Life tap
Loads of Crushing Blow
Loads of resists (especially lightning)
You'll be fine.
TheMightyGoat
27-04-2007, 06:09
As I look at the skill recommendations for the Lightdancer and the Warrior-Monk, I don't see a lot of significant difference and it looks like there's still some room in each build. Here's the distribution from the guides.
The Lightdancer:
12 or 18 in Talon with +skills
20 Death Sentry
20 Lightning Sentry
3 Fireblast
0 or 1 Venom
0 or 1 or 18 after +skills in a Shadow
1 BoS, Fade, CoS, MB, BF
Rest into synergies for Lightning Sentry (I split mine evenly between CBS and Shock Web)
The Warrior-Monk:
1 in Fire Blast (prerequisite)
1 in Wake of Fire (prerequisite)
1 in Blade Sentinel (prerequisite)
1 in Blade Fury (main skill!)
1~20 in Death Sentry
1 in Claw Mastery
1 in Claw Block
1 in Psychic Hammer
1 in Burst of Speed
1 in Shadow Warrior
1~20 in Cloak of Shadows
1~20 in Fade
20 in Shadow Master
1~20 in Mind Blast
20 in Venom
1~20 in Dragon Talon
1~20 in Dragon Flight
Why would it not be possible to build a viable compromise between the two? Say something along the lines of:
My Hypothetical Build:
18 Dragon Talon (level 24 with 6 +skills)
20 Venom
20 Death Sentry
20 Lightning Sentry
5~10 Fade
12 Shadow Master
1 Burst of Speed
1 Cloak of Shadows
1 Blade Fury
9 Prerequisites
102 points total, finished at level 91.
Does that sound like a build that makes any sense? Have I overlooked anything? 6 skill points could be taken from Dragon Talon, dropping it down to 4 kicks in favor of another skill if necessary. I am not sure of the diminishing returns on Fade, so there may be some extra skill points available there depending on my equipment selection. Maybe a couple synergy points could be sacrificed from Lightning Sentry as well, if necessary.
My equipment will be something along these lines.
Last Wish
Duress
Highlord's Wrath or Mara's
Stormshield
Upped Goreriders
Thundergod's Vigor
Ravenfrost
Dual leech rare or Wisp
Crafted 20 IAS
Undecided on helm - Guillaume's probably
Annihilus
Torch
What does everyone think of this idea?
TheMightyGoat
27-04-2007, 07:10
Follow-up:
It looks like I won't need Last Wish, Guillaume's, Duress and Gore Riders all together. (Unless the extra deadly strike/open wounds is worthwhile for PvM?) I'm thinking I may swap out Duress for Enigma or the Guillaume's for... something else. Any thoughts there are welcome too.
Don't waste so many points in Fade if you are going to use Last Wish.
TheMightyGoat
27-04-2007, 07:37
Don't waste so many points in Fade if you are going to use Last Wish.
Fair enough. What about the build in general? I was aiming to design something that could do the job of both the Dancer build and the Warrior-Monk. Should I give it a try or have I missed something?
Also, since I'm planning to use Fade instead of Burst of Speed, I see that with a Last Wish Phase Blade I should only need 46% IAS to reach the highest breakpoint on Dragon Talon. If I've read the tables correctly. 20 IAS gloves + Highlord's will get me 40, and I can throw an IAS jewel in Guillaume's to make sure 46% is covered without Burst of Speed. Or, since I don't really need Guillaume's for the Crushing Blow in light of my other gear, I might opt to throw a couple IAS jewels in a Crown of Ages to reach that breakpoint and have some extra skills. That would free up the glove slot, too, which I could replace with Dracul's or Trang's.
...but I'm getting ahead of myself. I'd just like to know if the premise of my build is worthwhile.
Fair enough. What about the build in general? I was aiming to design something that could do the job of both the Dancer build and the Warrior-Monk. Should I give it a try or have I missed something?
I'm not sure what WM has to add to a Dancer and vice versa. The main difference between them is the skills they *use*, not even so much the skill layout. Equipment wise they are pretty much the same if you are rich as well. I'd simply make a flashdancer, but with your gear I have no idea how your build could not work...
TheMightyGoat
27-04-2007, 08:51
I'm not sure what WM has to add to a Dancer and vice versa. The main difference between them is the skills they *use*, not even so much the skill layout. Equipment wise they are pretty much the same if you are rich as well. I'd simply make a flashdancer, but with your gear I have no idea how your build could not work...
Well, that is what this would (hopefully) add. I don't see why one build can't use all of those skills.
TheMightyGoat
27-04-2007, 09:30
Holy hell. No one ever told me Assassins don't need keys to open locked chests.
Moving on...
Would putting Last Wish in a Phase Blade make Blade Fury damage too low to be worthwhile? I think even if so I'll do it anyway for the IAS, but I don't want to spend those extra points if I'm not going to use the skill.
Also, as I've omitted Dragon Flight - is that skill necessary for anything outside of PvP?
You'd need 120*34/(120-34) = 48 IAS to reach 9/3 kicks with a Beserker axe. That is fast enough for PvM. Certainly if you are going for 5 kicks the difference between 9/3 and 7/3 is not that big.
I can't comment on DF as I never got the hang of it. It is a good skill to get you into trouble, but a lousy one to get you out of it.
Silent Shaddow
27-04-2007, 18:16
i find dragonflight exceeding useful,
everytime i go to kick somethingi use it to get extra prodage and minion stack
its not hard, just click near a monster and you tele right on top and then kick once, :wink3:
mephiztophelez
27-04-2007, 19:54
I'd just like to know if the premise of my build is worthwhile.
you will be able to get through Hell and Uber wuth your build and some skill.
personally i would do the following flashdancer build (it's a lot cheaper for a start...)
skillz:
max: Lit Sent, Death Sent, CBS
d-talon to slvl 17 or 23 with +skills (for an Uber build, more kicks is "better")
one point: all shadow disciplines, d-flight
spares to Shockweb
gear:
helm: guillaumes (socky with res/iDR/FHR) (note: nowadays i use a 22res/36iDR circlet instead of a Guillaumes, but thats a kind of esoteric bit of kit)
ammy: skills & res, maras is a good choice
rings: raven + <whatever>
armour: treachery in something light
belt: t-gods
wep: stormlash (socky with whatever, i have a res-jool in mine)
shield: stormshield (socky with whatever, i have a p-diamond at the moment, i might replace with a Sol)
gloves: dracs
boots: up'd gores
stats:
str: 156 to be able to equip SS/Up'd Gores, final of 186 with SS boost
dex: max block with SS
vit: the rest
NrG: Base!
this build can solo hell with ease. by subbing a Kiras for the guillaumes and a Smoke for the Treachery, i have ubered with this build. much faster in general PvM than a warrior-monk can ever hope to be, although i conceed a WM would probably be a little (not much, but a little) better in uber'ville.
my current flashdancer is only 2-points from fully synergised traps and has perfectly respectable kicking abilities. actually, her kicking ability is bloody awesome thanx to t3h 'Lash!
fyi: i find d-flight to be an exceedingly useful skill. its definatly worth a point + pre-reqs for pvm.
I'd say a traditional trapsin, but only if:
a. You can afford Infinity
If you need infinity, you're doing something seriously wrong. With the combonation of merc and shadow, MB and CoS, you should have everything you need. Item dependance does not make you a better player.
b. You don't need to do the Ubers
Heh, I do SP, so such things don't bother me the slightest. Sorry for the trolling, but item dependance aggrivates me immensely.
If you need infinity, you're doing something seriously wrong. With the combonation of merc and shadow, MB and CoS, you should have everything you need. Item dependance does not make you a better player.
The question was what Assassin build was the best for PvM. A pure lightning trapsin without infinity relies on his merc to kill 25-30% of the monsters, and a FB/DS/LS trapsin without infinity doesn't have better lightning traps than a flashdancer and Dtalon is of equal or better value as FB for a LI solution and simply a superior boss killer.
Does a trapper need an infinity? No.
Is a trapper without infinity comparable to a Flashdancer (even when not considering high-end runewords)? Also no, IMO.
My Hypothetical Build:
18 Dragon Talon (level 24 with 6 +skills)
20 Venom
20 Death Sentry
20 Lightning Sentry
5~10 Fade
12 Shadow Master
1 Burst of Speed
1 Cloak of Shadows
1 Blade Fury
9 Prerequisites
102 points total, finished at level 91.
What does everyone think of this idea?
With Last Wish 1 pt in fade.
Is Phoenix Strike Assassin viable?
For normal PvM yes. Not for ubers.
Zigot_HD
02-05-2007, 17:27
Trapper and k/ts (Kicker/Trapper hybrids) are easily the best "all-around" PvM builds. The Warrior/Monk will excel in very specific situations (basically, the Ubers, or any other extremely high-life monster), but for general "all-around" PvM play, Trappers and k/ts will kick her butt. In addition, Trappers and k/ts are safer (a big consideration if you play Hardcore), and can even do a little bit of dueling of you're of a mind to. Not great, but better than any other PvM-based Assassin builds, no matter how great the gear.
In summary:
-Trapper : Safe and strong PvM build: ( but not for Ubers )
-Trapper + Infinity : Killing speed +++
-Trapper Kicker : Safe and Strong build + Ubers + Anything + More fun to play
-Trapper + Kicker + Infinity : Killing speed +++
I'd take hybrid trap+kicker any day over trapper because she's so versatile and fun to play.
mikebones
19-10-2008, 23:10
i can show you my phoenix strke assassn own hell soloing...however when iron maiden becomes a factor...she just sucks
i can show you my phoenix strke assassn own hell soloing...however when iron maiden becomes a factor...she just sucksLol, fade and Blade fury are your pals vs Iron Maiden :P
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