M.R.A.P. vehicle

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/mrap.htm
A IED and mine-resistant troop transport to replace the Humvee.

The Navy is planning to test 9 models of MRAPs (http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0107/news/270107_mrap.htm).

Now that you have had an opportunity to familiarize yourself with the MRAP:



Kudos to Joe Biden
TODAY'S EDITORIAL
April 2, 2007

Six-term Democratic Sen. Joe Biden of Delaware has a rhetorical reputation for shooting from the hip. But Mr. Biden wasn't doing that during two war-related speeches he delivered Wednesday. First at a presidential forum hosted by the AFL-CIO and then on the Senate floor, even as the House and Senate had become mired in bipartisan warfare over Iraq, Mr. Biden displayed remarkable leadership. His action resulted in the bipartisan embrace of a policy that will help to protect the lives of tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers and Marines fighting in Iraq.

"If [the armed forces] build a new type of Humvee called an MRAP [Mine Resistant Ambush Protected] vehicle," he informed the union members, "there is four times less possibility of injury to a soldier inside that vehicle." This is crucial because 70 percent of American casualties in Iraq are caused by improvised explosive devices (IEDs), the roadway bombs that often detonate underneath the flat-bottom un-armored Humvees. MRAPs have a blast-resistant V-shaped hull that displaces much of the explosive power of IEDs. "We need 7,700 [MRAPs]," Mr. Biden continued. "We're only going to build 2,000 of them this year because it costs $8.5 billion," he said with evident disgust.
Rest of story (http://www.washtimes.com/op-ed/20070401-101451-1591r.htm)

I'm truely suprised that Sen. Biden did this. But I must say, good job Sen. Biden. Well done.

What do our vets have to say about this?

[Amra]

One of the TV news programs did a story on this vehicle.

Seems like money well spent to me* as long as they save lives.


*not a vet

[Dondrei]

Mine resistant? Is that like my old $5 watch's "water resistant"?

[jmervyn]

Mine resistant? Is that like my old $5 watch's "water resistant"?Yes, but as long as the mobility is unimpaired... :rolleyes:

As far as I'm concerned, if it keeps even a single soldier from being injured from shrapnel, it is worth every penny. I, too, am amazed that Biden is associated with this.

[SaroDarksbane]

As far as I'm concerned, if it keeps even a single soldier from being injured from shrapnel, it is worth every penny.
We'd like to say that you can't put a value on someone's life, but at some point, you kind of have to.

Good on him, though.

I, too, am amazed that Biden is associated with this.
Why is that? I don't know much about the guy, myself.

[jmervyn]

Why is that? I don't know much about the guy, myself.I imagine he's contemplated a name change before this. Something like "Slimey McDemo" or "Corruptible B'Staarde, Sr.".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden

[SaroDarksbane]

I imagine he's contemplated a name change before this. Something like "Slimey McDemo" or "Corruptible B'Staarde, Sr.".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden
Read it already. Didn't see anything "surprising".

[TakeMyCrabs]

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/mrap.htm
A IED and mine-resistant troop transport to replace the Humvee.

The Navy is planning to test 9 models of MRAPs (http://www.defense-update.com/newscast/0107/news/270107_mrap.htm).

Now that you have had an opportunity to familiarize yourself with the MRAP:



I'm truely suprised that Sen. Biden did this. But I must say, good job Sen. Biden. Well done.

What do our vets have to say about this?

This vehicle got nothing on the mine-destroyer I saw on Future Weapons (Discovery Channel Series). It had a bunch of swinging chains in the front with heavy weights attached at the end. The chains mull up ground (up to 3ft deep) and destroy any mines (including tank ones) without a problem and without hurting any of the passengers.

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

Different vehicles for different purposes. You fail the thread

[TakeMyCrabs]

Different vehicles for different purposes. You fail the thread

Oh no. How will I ever continue with my life?

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

I suggest you drink two beers and RTFA

[TakeMyCrabs]

I suggest you drink two beers and RTFA

RTFA? What's that stand for?

I can and will drink those beers though. I have some of that blueberry ale I posted in the other thread.

[S Z]

Mine destroyers are typically for use where you know there are mines in the vicinity. Great (ish) for mine field clearance. Not really of much use in the roles that Humvee's fill in Iraq.

Lotta money needed to do this though. Whole lotta money.

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

Speaking just on money, how much does it cost to train a man to fight? How many lives will this save? How long till the expenditure of the vehicles is paid for by not having to have to train more men to replace those that have died?

Taking it further, after those men have not been killed and rejoin civilian life, how much will they contribute to the economy over their lifetime? Speaking strictly of money, there is no reason NOT to.

[jmervyn]

Speaking just on money, how much does it cost to train a man to fight? How many lives will this save? How long till the expenditure of the vehicles is paid for by not having to have to train more men to replace those that have died?

Taking it further, after those men have not been killed and rejoin civilian life, how much will they contribute to the economy over their lifetime? Speaking strictly of money, there is no reason NOT to.Let's not worry the pretty little heads with these nasty issues. BLCD!~

That being said, I don't really see anything new on this vis-a-vis the earlier thread. These are all armored cars, not HMMWV upgrades. The last I heard, there was an effort to re-replace the M-151 series with flex-fuel or hybrid vehicles, since replacing the M-151 jeeps with HMMWV's is one of those outstandingly bad ideas that the military comes up with sometimes. I think I read the article on Wired, and it mentioned just how much this particular act of stupidity has cost us over the life-cycle.

[S Z]

No-ones saying that I implied that the cost isn't worth it, are they?

[Module88]

It's been in testing for a while IIRC, and it's great news. But I'm still waiting for the 416 and Dragonskin.

[SaroDarksbane]

No-ones saying that I implied that the cost isn't worth it, are they?
I don't know what he's ranting about. I haven't seen anyone in this thread yet say that it doesn't seem worth it . . .

[Syxx]

I haven't seen anyone in this thread yet say that it doesn't seem worth it . . .

Hi Saro,

Then let me be the first ... if I was one of the millions of poor citizens, at the bottom of American society, I'd have a hard time being happy about 8.5 billion of tax payers money spent on a few thousand armoured Hummers.

Governments spending tax dollars is always about priorities. My personal opinion is the money could be better spent on looking after your own citizens who don't have it so good.

Education, Healthcare > Things which go bang

Regards
Syxx

[pip boy]

8.5billion?

What makes these things so expensive.

Serious question?

[Gertz]

8.5billion?

What makes these things so expensive.

Serious question?

i guess its the armor development. the armor has to be thin and still resistant.

but its about time someone comes up with this. the hummers are - afaik - used for scouting missions and stuff like it. when they are driving tactically its hard to watch out for suspicious IED's which often are hidden in other vehicles..
there has bin IED's for so long now, its about time they consider to do something against it :P

[jmervyn]

8.5billion?

What makes these things so expensive.

Serious question?

Well, um, because there's serious money to be made. Duh. :rolleyes:

One can make an armored car in any garage (the Israelis made a bunch during their nation's "nativity"). Only influential corporations can charge $8.5b for them.


i guess its the armor development. the armor has to be thin and still resistant.Not so much. While I've seen TV articles on two of the vehicles, they're still plain old rolled steel - any innovation is on the engineering side of the house, like with the V-shaped hulls to improve the ballistics on their bottom.


but its about time someone comes up with this. the hummers are - afaik - used for scouting missions and stuff like it.Quite correct. The HMMWV is a modern version of the old Dodge light duty truck, and jeeps were basically eliminated from the inventory.

[Dondrei]

I'd say this (http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2725/0813tp6.jpg) ought to be able to take an IED or two. Watch you where you're pointing your flamethrower while you're inside though, even if you do have acid on you.

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

It's been in testing for a while IIRC, and it's great news. But I'm still waiting for the 416 and Dragonskin.

Bad thing about the 416 is where it's made. No matter what, a nation needs to build it's own arms in it's own factories on it's own soil. Now if we get the rights to manufacture it then that's fine.

Dragonskin... What can one say except "Mommy, I want some!"

[Module88]

Bad thing about the 416 is where it's made. No matter what, a nation needs to build it's own arms in it's own factories on it's own soil. Now if we get the rights to manufacture it then that's fine.

Dragonskin... What can one say except "Mommy, I want some!"

It's a copyright thing more than anything else. We have the capability and the know-how to produce the 416 (and I think Colt is even working on a piston model.

But the fact that we haven't gone to it is absolutely absurd. Hell, if keeping Colt alive is a concern, buy the lower receivers from them, and get the uppers from HK. That way, everyone wins. But that'd be too intelligent. :rolleyes: