Are bowazons good new characters?

[zzzackkk]

My CD key got stolen so i guess I'm going to another realm for a while. I want to make a bowazon but I don't know how good they are PvM. Can they do runs? Will she be a good char with mediocre gear, seeing as in how I'm gonna be finding all of my own gear now. And what kind of bowazon should a make? She needs to be good with crowd control, can a bowazon handle all of that?

[nnloso]

Yeah I have an Amazon with Strafe and I love it. But if you want to start a new character, it's better you start with a Sorceress. Because she can do MF.

[crawlingdeadman]

yeah because nothing other than a sorc can wear mf...

[emar]

I think you would have greater sucess with a FA/LF hybrid or something to that effect, than a straight bowazon - depending of course what you want to run. A physical damaging character can encounter many frustrations if their gear is not up to par. If you don't happen across a nice bow, you could be pulling your hair out with due time. FA (freezing arrow) allows for crowd control (freezing targets) and LF (lightning fury) coupled with pierce is really sick. Of course you can always go strafe/multi and FA.

There are many options for untwinked characters - some are just easier than others. Bowazon is certainly viable; however, my first choice is always a java (or hybrid) for untwinked fun - each person has their own preference.

Anyone can wear MF, however sorcs and summon necros are really the queen and king in that respect. High MF and continued viability; not to mention the built in tele on a sorc.

[HobbesAC]

a good bow ama who can kill fast are very expensive you will need items like 120/45 helm, forti, a good faith or wf, lots of very expensive charms etc so i would not recommend bow ama as a mf character to someone who just started playing on a new realm

[WhisperndaWind]

I really wouldnt recommend a bowazon for a new character, mostly because if you dont have a windforce or a faith. your already screwed far as damage they are highly expensive. I also wouldnt recommend a sorc for Mf'n either as a new toon. If you go pure sorc ( ie one elemental skill ) your going to need an infinity less you plan on just doing andy/meph. I think a better choice would be a hdin. As they can actually take a few hits with medocre gear and survive. where as less you have a sorc with alot of fhr (so you can tele after being slapped) or energy shield to absorb damage you'll be dead during your tele especially if you have problems with lag.

[AnimeCraze]

Typical poor sorcs do have lots of FHR's. 2x spirit is 110FHR, after all, and if you can't solo hell with 1 element, why not use 2? There's always the tried and tested meteorb sorc. Hdin is poor compared to the sorc simply because you can't teleport at all. (don't say enigma, since if you can afford an enigma, you can probably get a faith).

As for bowie, a harmony bow would be enough to do hell and the pits. However......, if you are just starting, even getting a Ko rune would be a problem.

[Veilside]

I'd recommend a java, a bowama would just be far too reliant on a decent bow and getting ias gear to work well as a first character. You could easily do nightmare baal runs with some crappy javelins and find some good equipment to make a bowamazon though.
What realm are you going to play on? I might be able to help you out with some stuff next week if you're on europe ladder.

[KavikKang]

You can't really have much MF on a bowzon, so it doesn't make a good first character. At least for me, my first character is always an MFer. I personally go with a Summon Nec, but if you are saying "Enigma is too expensive for my first guy" then you would want to use a Sorc. The bow issue isn't a huge deal for the Bowzon, Witchwild String is cheap and almost as powerful as Windforce. The problem is actually that it is difficult to get even a measly 100MF on a Bowzon while it is easy to have 300 on a Sorc...and not too tough to reach 500 on a Sorc.

But if you don't care about MF, and just want a cheap bowzon... Witchwild String is the key to pulling that off.

[Veilside]

You can't really have much MF on a bowzon, so it doesn't make a good first character. At least for me, my first character is always an MFer. I personally go with a Summon Nec, but if you are saying "Enigma is too expensive for my first guy" then you would want to use a Sorc. The bow issue isn't a huge deal for the Bowzon, Witchwild String is cheap and almost as powerful as Windforce. The problem is actually that it is difficult to get even a measly 100MF on a Bowzon while it is easy to have 300 on a Sorc...and not too tough to reach 500 on a Sorc.

But if you don't care about MF, and just want a cheap bowzon... Witchwild String is the key to pulling that off.


Yeah but there's still the problem of finding that WWS to be able to play your bowama if you have absolutely nothing else. As far as amazons are concerned a javazon can kill most anything with a pair of cracked javelins, that's why they're good for playing untwinked. The summon necromancer is probably the best non-twink, easy mf character you could make though, just depends what you prefer playing as.

[crawlingdeadman]

hmm let me see i remember reading about a pit strafer... skulders (15 ias jewelable, 1.25% mf per clvl), goldwrap (10ias, 30% mf), steelskull (10ias (25 w/ jewel if needed), dual leech, 30-50 mf)...how much mf is that again? bow is whatever you can find and i know that this is "good" gear to a new starter character but what're you putting on your sorc to get 300?

zons can mf too is all i'm saying. they can also complete the game with gear they find. who cares if it's "harder than a sorc" it's a zon that makes it better.

[methecsgod]

A bowazon is entirely gear-dependable. If you want to have a fully playable character(and not just a MFer), you will need a lot of expensive items. In that sense, it's not really good as a starter.

[crawlingdeadman]

A bowazon is entirely gear-dependable.
sure, but what isnt? (blah, blah, blah blizz sorc...meh)
you will need a lot of expensive items
wrong, unless you consider 3pgem items "expensive." have you ever made a bowzon without using fort, faith, wf, 120/45, cat's eye, or loh? if you haven't then you should it's actually fun to play the game when you're playing the game.
In that sense, it's not really good as a starter.
i agree that it's not the starter for everyone, but it is a "good" starter.

[WrongdayJ]

Actually, if I may chime in here, there are some Bowazons that aren't equipment dependant.
A frostmaiden (like all builds) can benefit from high end equipment, but it is not required at all. I have seen MANY Frostmaidens (and strafers for that matter) roll quite nicely through hell without Faith, Ice, enigma, CoH, torches and anni's and all that other high-end stuff. An Upped and shael'd Riphook is a really nice strafer Bow (and FAST as heck). The only thing I would think is necessary would be a Razortail belt. Other than that- I can't see why a Bowazon wouldn't be a great starter character.

I can honestly say this: The very first character I ever played in Diablo II was a bowie- and I still have her today- 4 1/2 years later. And still no fancy gear on her.

[crawlingdeadman]

i forget about frostmaidens all the time, J. it's a build i havent yet made. it's similar to java in that the more +skills you have the better, but where they come from isnt necessarily all that big a deal. is that a fair statement?

[WrongdayJ]

Absolutely. I agree with you CDM.

+skills- from any source- is the hot ticket with elemental builds (that would include PoiZons, Frostmaidens, Lightning Javazons, Frost Zealots, Rangers, Wind Druids, etc.)

You've never built a Frostmaiden, CDM?! It's time you did! Hey- the hardest parts of the entire GAME for me with a Bowie- is Normal Duriel believe it or not, and the Hell Ancients. The other bosses have room to run-and-shoot, but you are kinda weak and there's nowhere to run (and you're slowed on top of that) with Duriel, and with the Ancients (as you know) they tend to Bum Rush you alot. Hey- if you wanna make one, I'll start another one with you- Untwinked HC only please. Just give me a time, Date, Game name and password and I'll be there. It'd be cool to run dual Frosties I think. Each with a different Act II merc for the auras.

Let me know. . .:thumbsup:

[MrKaxe]

...and with the Ancients (as you know) they tend to Bum Rush you a lot.


Damn right...and the cold immunity one always spawns with makes your killing pace slow down...i can't do Hell Anc as they are all chasing me (ignoring Decoy, etc) and can't get a shot off!! I run with full Mav's on my Frostmaiden and she is tons o fun...

[WrongdayJ]

I know EXACTLY what you mean.

I think Blizzard intentionally made Hell level really, really hard to run solo- even with a really powerful build. It can be done, but man is it easier when you're partied up with:
An Ice Sorc (w/ a couple points in Enchant or Static Field)
A Barb shouting and using BO & BC- and providing the Melee action
A couple Pally's (one with sancuary, one with fanatasism or conviction) and more Melee action
A Fire Druid with an Oak Sage on as a healer/butt kicker when needed.
A Lightning Javazon to tank Bosses with CS, and the occasional Chain Lightning burst for help with the crowds
All the while having your friendly neighborhood Necro Amping everything in sight and help clearing crowds with CE.

I'd like to roll with a big multi-player game like that- but no mercs, players only. Where everyone knew their job and there was a job for everyone. No Pk'er screwing it up for everyone. No Duped or hacked gear slowing down the servers. Just good old Untwinked, Hardcore, watch your back and everyone elses Diablo II.

It's nice to dream. . .:cloud9:


Too bad it's just a dream though.

[crawlingdeadman]

i have given thought to your proposal and i dont think i want my first experience with an ice zon to be untwinked hc. i may be interrested to make a javazon however since i'm more comfortable with the build.

[WrongdayJ]

What better way to make the point that Bowies are good starter characters than to START one as your 1st experience with the build in HC?

If it sucks and you die. . .then you'll know and you can share the experience with the community here. If it turns out good and you blaze a trail all the way to Hell. . .you can share that experience, too. Kinda like a low-calorie version of SuperDave.

I've done a couple trial builds in SC Twinked- they really impressed me. Now I'm doing one just to see how far I can go untwinked HC. If you want in- I'd love to go tag-team with an experienced player. It's cool though if you want to become more familiar with playing the build. They are a bit different than strafers to play. More running, too.

[crawlingdeadman]

okay you talked me into it. have you started yet? pm me the details we'll do it.

edit: i still dont know that i'd want to go with the build i dont know very well. you've tried a few already so i think i'd be better off w/ the familiar. dont wanna get you and i killed do to inexperience.

[WrongdayJ]

I never worry about dying. It's part of the game, man.

I usually set it up so that I meet the people I play with in Lut Golein. That way you get a basic feel for the game and have a chance to find some decent gear/develop some skills without the stress.

Once you beat Andy though. . .then it's on.

I'll PM you later with the details and we'll go from there.

I'm definately going Frostmaiden- If you feel comfortable with the Jav, then go that way. It'll make the immunes later easier to deal with.:thumbsup: I know I'll feel ALOT more comfy with Duriel if you're a Javazon.

[MrKaxe]

I know EXACTLY what you mean.

I'd like to roll with a big multi-player game like that- but no mercs, players only. Where everyone knew their job and there was a job for everyone. No Pk'er screwing it up for everyone. No Duped or hacked gear slowing down the servers. Just good old Untwinked, Hardcore, watch your back and everyone elses Diablo II.

Too bad it's just a dream though.

It's not a dream if you're on Europe HC Ladder dude...if you're interested in that kinda thing head over to the Hardcore forum and read up on our KTA (Kill Them All) exploits in HC...i'm the curse/cleanup Necro running with most of the characters you described there...with the druid and the barb i have 3k life UNTWINKED!! A good solid party really does the Bizz in Hell...:thumbsup:

[WrongdayJ]

Sounds like you guys on Europe have your act together. . .but I think there may be a problem with the time schedule thing. You all probably play when it's like 2:30am here or something. . .and prime Diablo II time here where I live is probably not good for you guys.

I'll have to look into the KTA thing, though. Sounds awesome. I am very interested in getting in on that action.

[Hector]

Sorceress or Javazon for MF are my picks.

[justlovingu]

all u need is a faith(2 to 4 hrs),a fort(2 to 3 hrs),a pair of gore riders (1hr) and a
vamp gaze(1 to 2 hrs),and u r all set for hell chaos.i dont even need might merc.it just takes a little trading and common sense to get what u need.bowzons arent great at killing bosses though

this setup is not complete though...swap faith with windforce,4 40/15 jewels, highlords, some fancy rings(dual leech) and a might merc and hell chaos in 8 player games will be a piece of cake.

[WrongdayJ]

. . .bowzons arent great at killing bosses though. . .

I disagree with this statement.

Baal/Diablo/Mephisto all go down like little punks when you attack them like this:

MA (or GA or Standard arrow attack here)
FA
MA
MA
MA
FA
MA
MA. . .rinse and repeat until they're dead.

Couldn't be easier. . .and all the while you are safe from a distance while the valk and merc tank for you (until they get toasted, of course). But if you have a switch weapon of LIFE TAP (props to SsOG) then they can tank anything except when IM'd.

[crawlingdeadman]

except when IM'd.
i assume you mean IM'd on anything other than a ranged character...

[museamazon]

my amazon takes down bosses fine, with my merc/valc/decoy i just stand back and pound them with lovely guided arrows

and in answer to the topic, yes they are a good class to start as, i started as one (played the game b4 but havent played for 2 years)
its easy enough without any decent gear but you collect stuff quite fast

must admit moving from my lycanders to my self made faith made a huge differnce (only took about 2 weeks of playing before i got one though, just collect gems and make use of this forum)

goodluck

[WrongdayJ]

i assume you mean IM'd on anything other than a ranged character...

Yes. :azn: