Poison Javelin/Guided Hybrid Question

[IntelligentX]

I am thinking of making a hybrid amazon (Got the ideas from here (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=587)) as above, but my question is... Max Vita or Max Dex?
I am thinking of max dex as call to arms are not viable unless cta bow is used. But is it a wise choice?

My skill point distribution:
Anni and torch are used so it grants 4 skill points.
20 in poison javelin
20 in plague javelin
1+ in jab
1 in lightning bolt as a pre-requisite of plague javelin

8 in dodge (50%)
3 in avoid (50%)
8 in evade (50%)
1 in valkyrie
4 in critical strike (51%)
1+ in pentrate
1 in pierce
1 (total 3 skill points) in inner sight, slow missiles, decoy as a pre-requisite of valkyrie

20 in guided arrow
5 in multiple shot
1 (total 2) in magic arrow and cold arrow as pre-requisite if guided arrow

Total 98 skill points
Any constructive comments are welcomed!

[Queen Mebd]

I've heard that poison-guided hybrid amazons can be pretty clutch in team duels. If you're thinking of using this gal for teams and could count on a high-level bo, an all-dex build might work well. I'd imagine if you're thinking of doing more 1v1 dueling, a good chunk of vit may not be a bad thing. Finding a nice balance between life and damage with the two skills (as one is based on max dmg/dex and the other from + skills/%psn dmg) is always tricky with hybrids. Also, any idea as to what gear you'd be using?

I'd love to hear some other feedback probably as much as you; I've been kicking the idea for one around ever since messing around with a light & poison jav hybrid that used 1pt ga (a la Liquid's Sidewinder guide) a little while ago.

[DayDream]

I feel that going max vital is probably the better of the two for this kind of hybrid.
You'll be using java majority of the time and whatever switch as a finish. Poison until they are down to low low life then ga for finish. The dext you put in for max block should be enough damage for ga to kill enemies with some life left.. hopefully <<
Just a thought <<

[Zangeif]

Max vita for sure

[antirush]

I have one of these - my build is a bit off the wall but it's quite fun to play and effective vs many builds 1v1. It's not so good in public duel games though:

Maxed plague/synergies
Maxed dodge/evade/avoid
1 point guided

I use a 3pm/30frw/10 -10 circlet
Maras/cats eye
stat ring/raven
bramble
trangs gloves
titan's
Aldur's boots
dungos
On switch a cta ward bow.

My inventory is filled with 3frw/various resist charms.

With maxed dodges, max block and crazy r/w speeds she is quite a tank and, while her damage is lower than a plague-er with skillers, she packs quite a punch. The cta bow is great on my life and does very well for that last hitpoint. :)

[IntelligentX]

I am definitely not a pro in PvP, but I thank you all of your comments!
I will sort this out when I have time later =X

I've heard that poison-guided hybrid amazons can be pretty clutch in team duels. If you're thinking of using this gal for teams and could count on a high-level bo, an all-dex build might work well. I'd imagine if you're thinking of doing more 1v1 dueling, a good chunk of vit may not be a bad thing. Finding a nice balance between life and damage with the two skills (as one is based on max dmg/dex and the other from + skills/%psn dmg) is always tricky with hybrids. Also, any idea as to what gear you'd be using?

I'd love to hear some other feedback probably as much as you; I've been kicking the idea for one around ever since messing around with a light & poison jav hybrid that used 1pt ga (a la Liquid's Sidewinder guide) a little while ago.

I am not entirely sure what I am going to use on gears, but I am thinking of:

Weapon Switch 1: Titans + Stormshield, I am thinking of getting max block with stormshield.
Weapon Switch 2: Upped WitchWildString (Can't think of what is in the sockets yet, though.) when I decide to max dex OR Cta GM bow, if I am going to max vita.
Armor: Bramble (Thinking of putting fort in stash)
Gloves: Trang gloves (Or I have a +2 javelin skill with dual stats gloves) But I guess trang gloves benefits more right?
Belt: Not sure yet, maybe trang belt for CBF and free a ring slot for others.
Boots: Waterwalk?
Rings: Not sure yet.
Amulet: Not sure yet =X

I feel that going max vital is probably the better of the two for this kind of hybrid.
You'll be using java majority of the time and whatever switch as a finish. Poison until they are down to low low life then ga for finish. The dext you put in for max block should be enough damage for ga to kill enemies with some life left.. hopefully <<
Just a thought <<

Ah, that is a good idea IMO, achieving max block but rest in Vita isn't a bad idea at all, thanks!

[DayDream]

For the gear. Should atleast reach one of the bow bps then decide the rest of the gear with survival like trek for fhr

[jesterlolz]

I'm not pretending to be good at all with an amazon, never made any. But I would think that a cta bow on switch would be very helpful, as damage isn't very important, because it's a finishing skill.

[IntelligentX]

Now I am going to concentrate faster run walk and poison javelin on this character, and I need some opinion on helmets.
1. a circlet that antirush has (3 passive and magic 30 frw with +10/-10) (Of course, if I am lucky enough to gamble one)

2. Valkryie wing

3. Your choice

And for weapon on switch, I am going to use cta mat bow, as it only requires extra 5 ias to reach 8fpa breakpoint, or is there any better choice?

[crawlingdeadman]

i'm nearly done with my lvl 49 poison zon and while i have fewer helm options i really see valk wing as the near perfect option for the build. except for it's huge str req, which you wont have to worry about if you're getting monarch type str. on the other hand you'll have access to something like 2zon/30frw/2os circlet which would be better imo.

i like the cta mat bow option. i'm going to use a harmony because of my level

i think you should use a faceted monarch when you're not going to be needing ss.

trang gloves are better to a certain point but i think when you get into the really high levels of the skills that skills gloves work better. trangs add damage but not duration so even though the LCS will show more damage w/ skill gloves it adds duration to so check your dmg/second with both and see which is better.

[zarfen]

I have a fairly ok psnamazon. She is not very expensive, sinve I am poor :P
She is fun to play and does pretty well. If no tele (like I) You will need alot of frw. I also use harmony on switch to run away, and I use GA mostly to finish people off (I still have maxed GA for more spamability, and I dont have any better place to put them so...) and for trying to get a lucky hit in to make them interupt somehow.
I dont think I helped out much, just sharing some thoughs :smiley:

Oh, and somewhere there's a guide that states that until you get a certain level on your pjava(which was very high iirc) +3 java gloves does more than trangs.

[IntelligentX]

i'm nearly done with my lvl 49 poison zon and while i have fewer helm options i really see valk wing as the near perfect option for the build. except for it's huge str req, which you wont have to worry about if you're getting monarch type str. on the other hand you'll have access to something like 2zon/30frw/2os circlet which would be better imo.

i like the cta mat bow option. i'm going to use a harmony because of my level

i think you should use a faceted monarch when you're not going to be needing ss.

trang gloves are better to a certain point but i think when you get into the really high levels of the skills that skills gloves work better. trangs add damage but not duration so even though the LCS will show more damage w/ skill gloves it adds duration to so check your dmg/second with both and see which is better.

Thanks CDM for your advices. I am pretty sure I am heading for a Valk now, unless I can get myself a 2 zon/30frw/2os circlet.

And I probably need SS for its max block capability, and I am not rich enough to get a 20/-20 monarch too =X

I will probably think more on this build if I have time later.

[RazCotton]

CTA in a matbow is awesome, just throw plague and when they got 1 life, use guided to knock em out..

[Lyrs]

I don't know if this is wrong, but make sure you watch your psn sources, especially on your bow switch. You don't want to override your Javelin psn.

[RazCotton]

Hmmm, maybe you could point light fury or use charged strike to finish them and have Deaths web/5/5 facet shield (psn fct) on switch....depending on your damage.

[IntelligentX]

Hmmm, maybe you could point light fury or use charged strike to finish them and have Deaths web/5/5 facet shield (psn fct) on switch....depending on your damage.

Does the death's web with 20/-20 poison faceted shield help when the opponent is poisoned?

[Veilside]

Does the death's web with 20/-20 poison faceted shield help when the opponent is poisoned?

I think that's only with rabies.
You could always try to abuse the venom bug with plague javelin but you'll need to land a direct hit on an oponent for that to work.

[IntelligentX]

I think that's only with rabies.
You could always try to abuse the venom bug with plague javelin but you'll need to land a direct hit on an oponent for that to work.

Venom bug? Is it like the one from the tomb vipers in halls of vaught?

[Eilo Rytyj]

Venom bug? Is it like the one from the tomb vipers in halls of vaught?


Nope, it's where the poison damage bitrate from Venom adds to the poison damage bitrate of Plague/Poison Javelin, for the entire duration
. SSoG knows more about it, but basically, if you have a slvl 15 Venom, that's an average 315 damage over 10 frames, or 31.5 damage/frame. With, say, a slvl 30 Plague Jav, which does 22k damage over 14.6 seconds (365 frames), or ~59.2 damage/frame. Now with those bitrates added together, the Plague Jav will now do 33k damage over 14.6 seconds.

With Trang's Gloves involved, and slvl 35 Plague Jav... lets see...

Plague Jav will be 45k over 16.6 seconds normally. 109.1 damage/frame
Venom will be 492 damage over 0.4 seconds (315*1.25*1.25, venom's double mastery bonus). 49.2 damage/frame...

works out to 66k over 16.6 seconds. Going from 45k to 66k is a pretty big leap, but remember you gotta actually hit them with the Javelin to do so.

Even better... Poison Javelin... slvl 35 with Trang's Gloves is 55k over 76 seconds normally is boosted to 149k over 76 seconds with the Venom bug... gnarly... but with no AR% bonus, hitting with Poison Jav is a pain.

NB: all poison damages are the average figure of their damage range. Too messy to try too work out and post a whole bunch of new numbers.

[IntelligentX]

Nope, it's where the poison damage bitrate from Venom adds to the poison damage bitrate of Plague/Poison Javelin, for the entire duration
. SSoG knows more about it, but basically, if you have a slvl 15 Venom, that's an average 315 damage over 10 frames, or 31.5 damage/frame. With, say, a slvl 30 Plague Jav, which does 22k damage over 14.6 seconds (365 frames), or ~59.2 damage/frame. Now with those bitrates added together, the Plague Jav will now do 33k damage over 14.6 seconds.

With Trang's Gloves involved, and slvl 35 Plague Jav... lets see...

Plague Jav will be 45k over 16.6 seconds normally. 109.1 damage/frame
Venom will be 492 damage over 0.4 seconds (315*1.25*1.25, venom's double mastery bonus). 49.2 damage/frame...

works out to 66k over 16.6 seconds. Going from 45k to 66k is a pretty big leap, but remember you gotta actually hit them with the Javelin to do so.

Even better... Poison Javelin... slvl 35 with Trang's Gloves is 55k over 76 seconds normally is boosted to 149k over 76 seconds with the Venom bug... gnarly... but with no AR% bonus, hitting with Poison Jav is a pain.

NB: all poison damages are the average figure of their damage range. Too messy to try too work out and post a whole bunch of new numbers.

First of all, I am very appreciated with the calculations and the work involved, thank you! :laugh:
But what I want to ask now is... the damage done from hitting an target is different from the damage done when the target get infected by the poison cloud?

[Veilside]

First of all, I am very appreciated with the calculations and the work involved, thank you! :laugh:
But what I want to ask now is... the damage done from hitting an target is different from the damage done when the target get infected by the poison cloud?

When you hit them directly with the javelin when you've got venom active the poison damage of the skill and the venom will be combined with the venom adding its normal DPS to the entire length of that poison or plague javelin length. When they are infected purely by the cloud then only the damage from the cloud affects them, regardless of wether or not you have venom. The javelin has to land a hit for it to be effective, hence the need to use plague javelin (for it's AR boost) or rare fools mod javs with a high level penetrate.
I imagine it's probably too much hassle trying to land a direct javelin hit, so it's only really a curiosity untill someone works out an effective way to do it every time.

[SSoG]

When you hit them directly with the javelin when you've got venom active the poison damage of the skill and the venom will be combined with the venom adding its normal DPS to the entire length of that poison or plague javelin length. When they are infected purely by the cloud then only the damage from the cloud affects them, regardless of wether or not you have venom. The javelin has to land a hit for it to be effective, hence the need to use plague javelin (for it's AR boost) or rare fools mod javs with a high level penetrate.
I imagine it's probably too much hassle trying to land a direct javelin hit, so it's only really a curiosity untill someone works out an effective way to do it every time.
Actually, Poison Javelin is preferred to Plague Javelin for several reasons- first off, the spell timer is a LOT shorter, so you can throw a ton more PoisJavs than PlagJavs. Second off, the poison duration is a LOT longer, so it'll deal more top-end damage per hit.

The reason the "Venom Bug" is more of a gimmick than a workable strategy isn't that it's so hard to land a direct hit, it's because no matter what, the damage per second is going to be lousy (making it a sloooooooow killer). Poison Javelin + Venom won't deal anywhere NEAR as much damage per second as even a much weaker, non-venomed Plague Javelin.

[IntelligentX]

Now I am thinking specialising my zon to poison javelin, and here is the equipments I am thinking now:
Weapon Switch 1: Titans + Stormshield, I am thinking of getting max block with stormshield.
Weapon Switch 2: CTA mat bow.
Armor: Bramble (Thinking of putting fort in stash)
Helmet: Valk Wing or 2 zon/30frw/2os circlet if I am lucky enough.
Gloves: Trang gloves if it benefits more, or +2 javelin/dual stats glove instead.
Belt: Mavina's belt for its faster run walk or trang's belt for CBF.
Boots: Waterwalk or shadowdancer, depends if I need FHR or not.
Ring 1: Raven frost if trang's belt is not used, or dual soj/bk ring if CBF is covered.
Amulet: I have two options here, recently I have crafted a +1 amazon skill with 10% increased chance to block and 27 life ammy and Cat's eye for its faster run walk and decent dexterity. Any opinions here?

Charms: Javelin skill charms and life/resist charms as filler.

Again, it is only a brief thinking of my build, any advice is welcomed =)

And the stat point distribution:
Strength: enough for gear.
Dexterity: Max block.
Vitality: Rest
Energy: None

[zjounas]

I have Psn ama like this:

20 poison javelin
20 plague
20 light fury
maxing CS
1 Guided

But I use enigma... If you don't wear enigma you might get pwned by every BvC and every Paladin. My ama rocks ^^
Im in europe ScL whisp me *Zjounas1337 for duels ^^
Oh and I have at least 60fcr all the time P: Trang + Arach + Circlet.

[Wuben]

I wrote a guide about them. On page 2 you can find the Plague/GA hybrid that I would make.

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=427036&page=2