Whirlwind against a Wall

[HappyAssassin]

Yo, I'm just curious how other people handle this. I just dueled a windy with my ghost and it came up. Normally when you triwhirl on a ghost, you go around the opponent in the a very tight triangle. However, in one of our duels I had him namelocked and hit by a trap right next to the river by town (it was a bridge map) so I tele'd on him and started whirlwind. Of course, you can't make a triangle when the top of it is against a wall. I ended up doing tiny WWs back and forth that passed through him (as opposed to around like they are supposed to). This kept him in place enough to almost kill him, but he popped out of the WW with 1 life (or so) and tele'd away. So my question is, if you get someone against a wall with WW, which is the best option:

1) Small WWs through him (trying to stay in range the whole time ofc)
2) A "smushed" triangle (execute the bottom of the triangle but pass through him at the top)
3) Don't bother

This is especially important in pubs, for example, my opponent might have been able to town before I could mb him. Imput?

[Smithenator]

first of all the word is input ;P

When this kind of thing comes up for me I just do the back and forth ww or dont bother and see if they will try to walk out enough for tri-whirls, a smushed tri-whirl really doesnt work too well in my experiences.

[yetee]

yeah I agree with what smith said. ill either back out and let him try to move out or I will trap him mb and then dtalon him to death.

[Captain America]

a smushed tri-whirl really doesnt work too well in my experiences.

I agree with this statement, this might be due to the fact that I'm not too experienced however.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

I'm speaking from my old bvc's point of view but;

you do not want to do the straight back and forth ww.

Why not just mb trap kill him? Ghosts own windies either way anyways.

[Von Lazuli]

Hmm... I tend to either end up trying to Tri-whirl them properly, just out of habit. However much more effective would probably be V-whirling, but the mouse movements feel different... By V I mean whirl the two sides then reverse direction and do it backwards.

Laz

[mainaman]

Hmm... I tend to either end up trying to Tri-whirl them properly, just out of habit. However much more effective would probably be V-whirling, but the mouse movements feel different... By V I mean whirl the two sides then reverse direction and do it backwards.

Laz
yes thats what im trying to do . usually i end up doing ww straight through the oponent tho.

[Lyrs]

Don't WW at a wall if you've been IM'd.

As for the topic, the purpose of WW-triangles are to maintain hit-range/stun-block lock while making it difficult for the opponent to counter-attack. When WW-ing against a wall, you just lose the advantage of a third dimension.

I play recklessly so I'm all for messy and lucky kills/saves. Naturally, a more careful player would simply GA switch or leap-stun to force them to move.

[Camden]

Heh. If I'm on my druid and I wanna play a bit lame I'll sit on a puddle or against a bush; it reduces a ton of hitchecks and is generally harder for them to whirl tightly enough to keep me locked. I'd guess 1 whirl through and then mindblast ~ ~? Not sure how badly this might effect a wwsin but it tends to really mess some barbs up since for most triwhirls are a habit, not a reflex.

[HappyAssassin]

Why not just mb trap kill him? Ghosts own windies either way anyways.

My current char is a pure ghost, so unless I'd MB him to death thats not an option.

Thanks for all the 'input' (my bad) guys. The idea of taloning them to death is good, maybe I'll try that next time it comes up. Otherwise, looks like no "smushed" triwhirls.

[mephiztophelez]

just as a general aside: i find kicks > ww vs druids most of the time. locked up against a wall is definatly kick-time.

a smushed tri-whirl really doesnt work too well in my experiences.

truncated perhaps? :prop:

[Xombie]

Berserk for bvc / dragon claw / normal attack imo

[Moritz]

yeah, I would also definitly kick in that situation.
Maybe whirl once up and down to kill oak, then start kicking + chainlock incase he escapes.
together with traplock thats a sure thing I think.

[Bune]

On Runics you should DEFINATELY be kicking vs windies :) You'll see why, just make sure you have them semi-trap locked with a swirly overhead.

[claniraqback]

Against windies, you should basically be relying on a namelocked tele/upwards WW, not even bothering to try and DoD (triangle ww). You should really reserve that for ww vs melee duels, whereas against casters, traplock/quick WW's should be your main point. Dragon flight is suicide most of the time, but extremely useful in those 1/10 chances. So don't rely on it.


Against windy druids, if their FHR is pitiful enough that you are going to lock them with firetrap/mb, it simply doesn't matter if you WW or kick them to death. You could just hold them in traplock and kill them with the MB/firetrap damage if you wanted. So theres no real situation where you could be kicking that isn't better done with WW.

[Smithenator]

tri-whirl is mostly for melee duels? what? I can think of very few instances where I would use tri-whirl against a melee char.

[Bune]

I'd have to agree with Smith on that one. But if you say ww'ing is superior to kicking on something such as a druid, you are NOT kicking properly. Once you get a trap or 2 down, a swirly above the head, (usually this comes with a namelock MB before you tele in.... obviously, so MB+trap+trap+MB or however you see fit) the second it starts firing you should be ontop of that druid like a fat kid on a cupcake kicking his brains out, he won't escape. The only case where this wouldn't really be viable is if your DR sucks (which means he's going to kill you first) your trapping sucks, or your teleport to kicking sucks.

I highly suggest you give this a try, practice it, then come back and tell me ww'ing is superior.

[mephiztophelez]

I highly suggest you give this a try, practice it, then come back and tell me ww'ing is superior.
i <3 d-talon.

my current build has 2 hard points in it. not bad for a pvp attack.

[clanlraqback]

I'd have to agree with Smith on that one. But if you say ww'ing is superior to kicking on something such as a druid, you are NOT kicking properly. Once you get a trap or 2 down, a swirly above the head, (usually this comes with a namelock MB before you tele in.... obviously, so MB+trap+trap+MB or however you see fit) the second it starts firing you should be ontop of that druid like a fat kid on a cupcake kicking his brains out, he won't escape. The only case where this wouldn't really be viable is if your DR sucks (which means he's going to kill you first) your trapping sucks, or your teleport to kicking sucks.

I highly suggest you give this a try, practice it, then come back and tell me ww'ing is superior.

Actually, quite the opposite way around. I'm a druid player, and have only actually once or twice in the last couple years found a kicker who could actually kill me without mass sorb. And he could kill me 10x easier with WW.

I've used ghosts enough to experiment with pretty much every setup. However, the problem is like I've said; kicks require the druid to ALREADY be stunlocked to actually have a chance of hitting. If hes already stunlocked, he's going to die to pretty much anything. You could pull out a widowmaker or kill him with fire blast.

In real duels, where your enemy is as skilled as you, you're going to need to rely on quick tele/ww's like a BvC does. Sure, kicks can kill a windy, but only if hes already dead.

[Moritz]

Actually, quite the opposite way around. I'm a druid player, and have only actually once or twice in the last couple years found a kicker who could actually kill me without mass sorb. And he could kill me 10x easier with WW.

I've used ghosts enough to experiment with pretty much every setup. However, the problem is like I've said; kicks require the druid to ALREADY be stunlocked to actually have a chance of hitting. If hes already stunlocked, he's going to die to pretty much anything. You could pull out a widowmaker or kill him with fire blast.

In real duels, where your enemy is as skilled as you, you're going to need to rely on quick tele/ww's like a BvC does. Sure, kicks can kill a windy, but only if hes already dead.


Since when can you sorb a stormer? I mean, high-max DR should be normal, and the cold dmg from hurrican won't hurt that much.


And yeah, the topic is about a semi-traplocked druid who stands against a wall or river, which makes it impossible to triwhirl.

I wouldn't start tanking a druid with kicks only without any traps around, but even with wws I wouldn't do so.
At least 1-2 wofs should be firing.

[Box]

Didn't really read the thread, but why not do a "V" ww?

Then again, it WAS a windy, just lock him elsewhere.

[LanceD]

From my experiences, WW'ing against walls is not a bad strategy at all. I've never had a chance to do this against a windy with my barb, but I've done it against several hammerdins and it works very well since the walls block the hammers when they come flying around.