View Full Version : Cookie cutter PVP char!!!!
Camintoi
10-03-2007, 15:12
Howdy, I'v made several pvp chars and they all seem to work quite good, pvp bone nerc, bvb, blizz and the such. However I'm wondering if there is such a pvp character that is just an ultimate pvp char that with good items has the potential to beat every class. I hate those guides where it has these "exotic" characters for pvp just for fun. I'm just wondering out of curiosity is there one? I was thinkin of a trapsin or far cast zon maybe... Dunnno tho. Tell me what you think and why
Howdy, I'v made several pvp chars and they all seem to work quite good, pvp bone nerc, bvb, blizz and the such. However I'm wondering if there is such a pvp character that is just an ultimate pvp char that with good items has the potential to beat every class. I hate those guides where it has these "exotic" characters for pvp just for fun. I'm just wondering out of curiosity is there one? I was thinkin of a trapsin or far cast zon maybe... Dunnno tho. Tell me what you think and why
Every build can, to some extent, beat every build. This is due to how the PvP is built:
Skill
Luck
Character Advantages
Gear
Now, if Gear and C.A. is nulled, you are left with Luck and Skill. With enough Skill, you can overthrow Luck.
But no, there is not a single build that can just go and beat everyone, you need immensive amounts of skill and even then you are guaranteed to lose at times.
Some of such characters would be:
Bonemancer
BvC
Hammerdin
Why these three? BvC is one of the best if not the best melee character in the game, Bonemancer is the only other magic-dealing caster PvPer out there and Hammerdin is simply amazing with their huge damage, life and the like. However each of the builds needs immensive amounts of skills to beat the rest. Even more so the BvC, which requires immensive amounts of skill just to be better than average.
CaptnSparrow
10-03-2007, 15:30
Anything elemental cannot be considered ultimate.
Beat-all classes are:
BvC
Bone Nec
Hammerdin
BvCs are limited by BvBs, and Bone Necs are hard pushed against really high es sorcs, but they're still pretty well off.
Anything elemental cannot be considered ultimate.
Beat-all classes are:
BvC
Bone Nec
Hammerdin
BvCs are limited by BvBs, and Bone Necs are hard pushed against really high es sorcs, but they're still pretty well off.
I have to disagree at a few things:
BvCs can beat BvBs, just that it takes a hellish time. Of course there are some that cannot be beaten (40% FCR teleporting ones).
As for Bonemancers, one that has either a single pt in Poison Nova or just uses that dagger or anything with +Poison Nova can beat ES sorcs, just that it takes time. And they can beat them even with their own spells, just that it can take a good 75 or so hits.
CaptnSparrow
10-03-2007, 15:36
As for Bonemancers, one that has either a single pt in Poison Nova or just uses that dagger or anything with +Poison Nova can beat ES sorcs, just that it takes time. And they can beat them even with their own spells, just that it can take a good 75 or so hits.
I think that qualifies as "hard pushed."
I think that qualifies as "hard pushed."
That 75 is assuming 3000 life, which I don't see happening. With 2500 life, that would be a mere 63.
Heck, with Blackbog's, it can be as quick as 33 Poison Novas.
Plus, the sorcs are not that hard:
Lightning sorcs are plain crap with their minimal average damage
Fire sorcs are beaten with a Fire Golem (making their spells do pretty much no damage)
Leaves you with cold ones, meaning blizzard and orbers. Orbers are easily beaten via Ravenfrosts. So, only Blizzard sorcs. And they just won't have a 95% ES unless they take a lot away from their synergies. Well, if they wanted to 1-hit-kill a bonemancer, they would need ~11.5k damage. Heck, it would be 2 hits with a mere 5200 damage, which would allow them to only spend 20 in Blizzard and Cold mastery, with 12 total in other synergies, coming out with a base lvl 20 ES, meaning an easy 95%.
However, such a sorc wouldn't be too good, because they would do a mere 1800 damage per hit even after -100 CR.
CaptnSparrow
10-03-2007, 18:02
That 75 is assuming 3000 life, which I don't see happening. With 2500 life, that would be a mere 63.
Heck, with Blackbog's, it can be as quick as 33 Poison Novas.
Plus, the sorcs are not that hard:
Lightning sorcs are plain crap with their minimal average damage
Fire sorcs are beaten with a Fire Golem (making their spells do pretty much no damage)
Leaves you with cold ones, meaning blizzard and orbers. Orbers are easily beaten via Ravenfrosts. So, only Blizzard sorcs. And they just won't have a 95% ES unless they take a lot away from their synergies. Well, if they wanted to 1-hit-kill a bonemancer, they would need ~11.5k damage. Heck, it would be 2 hits with a mere 5200 damage, which would allow them to only spend 20 in Blizzard and Cold mastery, with 12 total in other synergies, coming out with a base lvl 20 ES, meaning an easy 95%.
However, such a sorc wouldn't be too good, because they would do a mere 1800 damage per hit even after -100 CR.
A... "mere" 63? ;x Fire Golem doesn't do much against a fire sorc unless you are insanely good at walking off. Minion stacking with it gets you hit from splash damage. If you tele -> walk off really quick then you're okay but for 63 hits (hell, even 30 hits would be pushing it)? And if they lock you then forget about it.
I don't understand you're lightning sorc thing at all. Unless you plan on sorbing with something in addition to the standard tgods or wisp (which would be bad manner by most standards, usually 1 piece of sorb is allowed), they still have pretty large max damage values. And I don't think that max damage can be ignored when the necro needs to hit them such a great amount of times, since they'll obviously have a good handful of chances to hit.
Blizz wouldn't even need full es to win, but if they got close to 95 they probably would be prebuffing. If you're wearing dual ravens, that's bad mannered by most standards as well, so they should have no issues about prebuffing against you. And unless you change around your whole setup, including charms, the amount of stack the average necro has is very minimal.
I don't understand you're lightning sorc thing at all. Unless you plan on sorbing with something in addition to the standard tgods or wisp (which would be bad manner by most standards, usually 1 piece of sorb is allowed), they still have pretty large max damage values. And I don't think that max damage can be ignored when the necro needs to hit them such a great amount of times, since they'll obviously have a good handful of chances to hit.
Their minimum damage is barely in two digits. Their maximum damage is huge. Thus their average damage is absolutely crap. A 45k max damage Lightning ends up being something like 22 522 average. Not to mention ES ones with their 18196.5 average damage. Plus, as an attack, Lightning is absolutely crap. It's got a short range, not even homing, easily avoidable and the possibility of crappy hits is gigantic.
If the maximum damage occured even once during a duel, it would be decent, but the chance of that happening is minimal at around 0.00278% which just isn't good enough. Or why do you think all PvP damage is measured in averages? Because the chance of the maximum occuring is too small. Heck, even with Grief it's too low, and the difference between Grief's damages is a mere 667 after all multipliers. Even so, counting the maximum damage would be too much since it would only occur once in 667 hits, meaning 0.149925% of the time. If it was even 1%, then it would be good, but there just isn't an attack with 100 variables.
Blizz wouldn't even need full es to win, but if they got close to 95 they probably would be prebuffing. If you're wearing dual ravens, that's bad mannered by most standards as well, so they should have no issues about prebuffing against you. And unless you change around your whole setup, including charms, the amount of stack the average necro has is very minimal.
2 ravens = BM? Yeah right, say that when they have -100% CR. Stack is not needed with dual ravens most of the time. But as I already said, blizzard sorc is the only one of them who's of real trouble.
I already showed you that an ES blizzard sorc can go 20 base ES to reach a nice amount of +90% ES with no prebuff. That would require them to hit the necromancer twice instead of once, though. Plus, they would be trashed versus most other characters, such as Windies because they would deal minimum damage to them.
far cast zon maybe By this do you mean 'legit' or not?
I have just made a Hammerdin that roughly follows a 1v7 build. I go into duel games, hostile all, and have some fun ;) It's relatively cheap, very powerful, and if you get bored you can just slap on a grief pb and own some chars with it.
I have problems vs hammerdins. Thats all. All other chars can be hammer'd or grief'd with a certain degree of skill involved. FoH palas kill me a lot as well for somereason despite me having 90lr with stack and a tgods. Not sure why...
Anyway, it's a good char that will kill all chars in a duel game if you can use it
By this do you mean 'legit' or not?
I have just made a Hammerdin that roughly follows a 1v7 build. I go into duel games, hostile all, and have some fun ;) It's relatively cheap, very powerful, and if you get bored you can just slap on a grief pb and own some chars with it.
Excuse me, you call 24 * 20/5's "cheap"? Not to mention the European version of it with it's BBelt that, the last time I was active at least, cost around 11-14 * 32020s, each of those 32020s going for 2-4 sojs, total for a nice of 22 - 56 sojs. That's more than my whole welfare BvC. Not cheap. Not to mention that 20/5's also cost like 1.5 - 2 * 32020s, so for the load of 24 you would pay 72 - 192 sojs. You call that cheap? Total for charms and a single belt = 94 - 248 sojs, which is 2 - 6 times the cost of my welfare BvC. Not cheap.
Anyway, it's a good char that will kill all chars in a duel game if you can use it
Even so, a decent BvC will pretty much rip hammerdins apart.
Wo, I think that's a bit harsh I was just getting my opinion across, no need for such a serious rebuttal imo, but everyone is entitled to their opinions.
My pala is relatively cheap, I don't have many/any of the charms you have listed and the rest is history. I don't claim I own the game, I claimed I have fun with my build, which is killing more people than dying. I do find I suffer sometimes and my skill with the character isn't of an extremely high level as its the first LoD pala I've made.
Even so, a decent BvC will pretty much rip hammerdins apart.
Agreed, but the bvb's I have fought weren't that decent.
A hammerdin build with a few points put into resist lightning, some semi good gear that gives good fhr res and fcr is enough. It may not be the best but you can still practise a lot with it and still be successful in most public games, or at least this is my experiance, no doubt everyone has also had their own experiances.
Why did you quote the bit about legit fc Ce Olba? I don't see it's relevance to what your saying, as obviously if he's referring to a fc zon that farcasts automatically then, well, I don't want to discuss it :)
Agreed, but the bvb's I have fought weren't that decent.
BvBs are always trash.
Why did you quote the bit about legit fc Ce Olba? I don't see it's relevance to what your saying, as obviously if he's referring to a fc zon that farcasts automatically then, well, I don't want to discuss it :)
Because I was too lazy to edit it out? If it was more than a 1-liner, I would've. 1-liners are not important.
KK, I meant bvc's as well lol.
KK, I meant bvc's as well lol.
Don't ever put BvCs in the same category as BvBs unless you are talking about barbs in general. And barbs in general suck. About 90-95% of all barbarians have no idea of what they are doing and the rest rarely frequent the pubs and when they do, it's clearly visible.
Don't ever put BvCs in the same category as BvBs unless you are talking about barbs in general
I obviously didn't as we both know they are different animals and I just said I made a typo.
About 90-95% of all barbarians have no idea of what they are doing and the rest rarely frequent the pubs and when they do, it's clearly visible
Agreed, but that applies to a lot characters in public duel games. Sometimes people just like having fun and don't see it as a competitive environment.
Cheesehed
10-03-2007, 21:16
im sorry ce olba but a bvb should never lose to a bvc
im sorry ce olba but a bvb should never lose to a bvc
Whirl vs. Whirl, this is true. But if the BvC takes out Widowmaker and the BvC is stupid enough to try and catch him with a mere swapping of armor, there's no way the BvB will win. The BvC will have to get the same 40% FCR and teleport. Then it's a bit trickier. Mcm has proven multiple times that a BvB is very beatable on a BvC. Well, too bad that mcm happens to be the best BvC around.
CaptnSparrow
10-03-2007, 22:42
2 pieces of absorb has always been bad mannered. But like I said, if you can be bad mannered with the 2 Ravens they can be bad mannered and prebuff es, meaning more damage because of less hard points in energy shield. ;\
akumaxxyz
10-03-2007, 22:42
max block bvb with 40% fcr and engima will always kill a bvc. this assumes equal player skill level.
2 pieces of absorb has always been bad mannered. But like I said, if you can be bad mannered with the 2 Ravens they can be bad mannered and prebuff es, meaning more damage because of less hard points in energy shield. ;\
Whine more? 2 pieces of sorb would be BM if the necro didn't have -100% CR, which he of course will have.
So you are saying that 2 pieces of absorb (which is the same as an effective 64% resistances) is Bm when they have -100% CR?
2 Ravens is not bm vs a blizz sorc due to the amount of - res the mastery has if the bone nec only wore 1 raven it would be kill in 2 hits easily. Its bad enought when a barb does not wear ravens or stack vs a blizz sorc as even a BvC can get taken out in like 3 blizz hits as the first ignores the absorb making it the hardest hit followed by the rest.
If the complain about 2 ravens i would go and get stack gear instead which is worst than using 2x ravens, and the thing is stack is considered more gm.
And yes a bvb is very beatable i beat most bvbs i have seen, i use widow and drive by-ww when they run etc to catch them out.
Whirl for whirl a bvc will always lose so this is why widow is important and vs a decent bvb that can tele with 40% fcr u will lose most if not all the time.
CaptnSparrow
11-03-2007, 19:16
Whine more? 2 pieces of sorb would be BM if the necro didn't have -100% CR, which he of course will have.
So you are saying that 2 pieces of absorb (which is the same as an effective 64% resistances) is Bm when they have -100% CR?
Oh snap he's reachin boiling point. :O
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