Meleemancer; Some Discrepancies

[Zelvital]

I am new to Diablo II (Still brining on new players in '07), and am interested in making a Meleemancer character. I've read every guide I could find on how to make one, and all of them seem to contradict each other. To assist you in assisting me, I'll tell you the basics of what I want to do. I want to be a Meleemancer that uses two-handed weapons (A greatsword eventually), maybe summons one or two golems, and uses some offensive magic. I want to play on line with him, so PvM and PvP are both equally important.

Skill Point:
Most seem to tell you that you give yourself enough dex and strength to use your weapon of choice, and put the rest in vitality. This seems to be viable, as supposedly you can raise most everything you need through good equipment.

Skills:
This is where the contradictions are most apparent

Bone Armour: I have heard everything from recommendations to max this skill out, to recommendations to not use this at all. As a n00b, it seems like an extremely logical skill to use as a melee based character.

Amplify Damage: Again, some say max, others say don't bother. I've noticed that decrepify has a similar effect and is supposedly good for pvp.

Weaken: Some say this is good against bosses and uniques.

Decrepify: Some say this can substitute amplify damage. To me, it looks solid.

Iron Maiden: I understand that patches have messed with this skill quite a bit. Some say it is a good skill (in conjunction with confuse and blood golem), others say not to bother.

Terror: All of the guides I've read have said to put at least one point in this, though some people say it's an all or nothing skill.

Confuse: Again, things vary.

Bone Wall and Bone Prison: To me, bone prison seems more useful, but again accounts vary.

Bone Spirit and Bone Spear: Most guides say that one of these will become your primary offensive spell, another says that these are only used as prerequisite.

Poison Nova: Guides either say max or leave at 0.

Any help would be great.

[Austere]

Well, keep in mind that a necromancer can only have one of any type of golem active at any time. Meaning, you can't have a fire and a blood golem active at once or have multiple fire golems active. As for the guides that say to use bone spear and bone spirit as your primary offensive spell (for meleemancers), these guides must have been written before synergies were intoduced. Bone spirit and bone spear are only useful if you max synergies, and if you plan to have summons, you won't have enough skill points to max bone spells. So I would say no to bone spear and bone spirit.

If you're interested in having offense spells, then I suggest poison spells, as it will only cost you 60 skill points to master those. Amplify damage only increases area of effect with skill points. I think one point into amplify damage with plus to skill items will give it enough area of effect, unless you have lots of summons running around, then you might need a bigger area of effect. Decrepify is a really good spell too. The problem is, that its area of effect is so small, that amplify damage is usually more effective in PVM. However, in PVP since you only have one enemy, decrepify comes in handy.

I think a meleemancer would most benefit from the AI affecting curses (dim vision, terror, confuse, and attract). Dim Vision and terror can work as excellent crowd controlling spells that allow you to pick monsters off without getting swarmed. Confuse and attract will give you some back up when fighting crowds. I would definately invest into the AI curses if I were a meleemancer.

I would suggest investing into the poison spells, maybe a clay golem, bone armor, amplify damage, and a couple of the AI affecting spells. But maybe you should wait for some feedback from other people in this forum.

If you go with bone armor, only put one point into bone armor, since the bone armor syngergies (bone wall and bone cage) will give more life to bone armor than putting points directly into bone armor.

[bogie]

With a meleemancer you dont want to get swarmed, so I would go the Bone Armor route, giving you massive amounts of protection, adding in a golem (clay or fire) with maxed golem mastery and one point into each curse. The skill setup could look like this.

20 Bone Armor
20 Bone Wall
20 Bone Prison
1 Teeth
1 Corpse Explosion
1 Bone Spear (these are all prequisites to Bone Prison)
1 Clay Golem
20 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist
1 Blood Golem
1 Iron Golem
1 Fire Golem
10 Curses

Spend your remaining curses as you like, id suggest boosing your curses if you dont have many +skills, as their radius will be lacking.

If your just starting out, and wont have much in terms of good gear, then id suggest going ultra defensive. You wont want enemies to hit you, so throw a bonewall between you and the enemies and poke them through the bars with a range 3 or above weapon. Besides, nothing makes you feel safer than surrounding yourself in a massive screenwide wall of bonewalls (haha get me now).

Did you get your info from Arreat Summit? I remember that they have that advice about bonespear and spirit...Arreat Summit is sadly far behind, and they havnt updated their strategies much, they still seem to be going on about strats that worked in 1.09 =(

[Mad Mantis]

I want to be a Meleemancer that uses two-handed weapons (A greatsword eventually), maybe summons one or two golems, and uses some offensive magic. I want to play on line with him, so PvM and PvP are both equally important.

Welcome Newcomer to The Darkness. Grab a brew (http://www.holland-at-home.nl/images/bier.jpg) and feel free to raise some corpses.

Forget PvP. You AR won't be getting high enough to actually hit a player. And your damage won't be very much.

Swords aren't the fastest kind of weapon for a Meleemancer. They do better with other ranged weaponry like Scythes.



Bone Armour

Good skill, but max the synergies first. They give a higher return per point invested. The synergies also give a more varied kind of protection.



Amplify Damage, Weaken & Decrepify.

Amp is good when you start and against certain targets that can't hit you. One point can never be wrong. However more often than not a Meleemancer, certainly later in the game, will be busy staying alive and that is where Decrep can help. It seriously cripples enemies. Weaken really only shines in the very first few spots in the game.



Iron Maiden: I understand that patches have messed with this skill quite a bit. Some say it is a good skill (in conjunction with confuse and blood golem), others say not to bother.

IM isn't the most effective way to get good damage return. Aura stacking would be more useful. You'll need a hefty investment if you want to get some fun out of it.



Terror & Confuse

Both of these AI curses require knowledge of how the targets react. Terror can prevent you from getting swarmed if you know how it works. Best in wide open spaces and when the enemy has a clear path to run. It requires a bit of thinking. One point can be a lifesaver. Confuse can split a group a keep you safe. It requires a few points to get the duration up since it get reduced to 1/4th in Hell.



Bone Wall and Bone Prison: To me, bone prison seems more useful, but again accounts vary.

Both are useful in different situations. Wall is used for making bone fortresses and blocking dungeon passages. Prison rocks against single enemies. Both help each other and BA. Definitely worth it for a Meleemancer.


Bone Spirit and Bone Spear: Most guides say that one of these will become your primary offensive spell, another says that these are only used as prerequisite.

Meleemancers fight with weapons. Not spells. To me a true Meleemancer would not max them. You can get a great synergy going though with a Brand weapon.


Poison Nova: Guides either say max or leave at 0.

Leave it a 0. It requires a hefty point and gear investment to make it shiny. Again you are a Meleemancer.

Anyway these are some of my views on Meleemancing. There are few of us around that like to play the Meleemancer. SSOG for instance likes to play them and he has some very informative posts. Try doing a search for them.

[SSoG]

I've made a lot of posts on meleemancing, and rather than trying to summarize them all, I'll just link you to the highlights.

How to build a meleemancer (lots of info, read the whole threads):
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=531791
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=526353

Also, just in case you decide to make a Zealmancer:
Zeal Breakpoints for Passion Polearms (http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=5044396&postcount=3)
Zeal Breakpoints for Passion 1-handed Swords (http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=5022371&postcount=6)

Also, some big advice- don't try this unless you've already beaten the game several times and are looking for a challenge. Meleemancers are the hardest genuine "build" to beat the game with. Really, really hard. If you can beat the game with a Meleemancer, you can do it with anything.

[NecromanSassin]

I've never built it, and I wouldn't suggest you do. You are new to Diablo, so you don't really have access to any weapons you can transfer to your Necro.

Meleemancer needs damaging weapons, AR, and health.. all of which the Necromancer doesn't have (in general). With damaging weapons, he's slow. To get AR, he has to sacrifice slow from mercenary, making his life lower. In order to get health (only +2 per lvl in Vitality) he needs monster points in Vitality that might take points from skills like Strength and Dexterity, which are also needed.

I'm not against them, but they are extremely difficult, and I commend anyone who has completed the game (no rushes, duh) with one.

[Mad Mantis]

You can start out with one. I did. You don't need to make it the only build you play. Just play and see where it gets you. Take it slow. Play around with other Necro builds and keep practicing the Meleemancer skills. A sure way to get to know the class.

[SSoG]

You can start out with one. I did. You don't need to make it the only build you play. Just play and see where it gets you. Take it slow. Play around with other Necro builds and keep practicing the Meleemancer skills. A sure way to get to know the class.

Agreed. Nobody beats the game with their first character, anyway, so a Meleemancer is as good as anything else for learning the ropes.

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Agreed. Nobody beats the game with their first character, anyway, so a Meleemancer is as good as anything else for learning the ropes.

<waves hand>

Er ... I did. My first character is a necro summoner (mostly) with quite a few wasted points here and there as I didn't really know what I was doing. I was told to check this site out for tips, so I ended up going for a summoner build.

I doubt I'd have beaten the game without the advice I've read here.

Now I have to try and figure out what I want to play next ...

[Darker Realm]

Most meleemancer guides will not be your final destination. The build is still in infancy, and has countless possibilities for strengthening and diversifying the build; it is open for your fun and enjoyment.

[SSoG]

<waves hand>

Er ... I did. My first character is a necro summoner (mostly) with quite a few wasted points here and there as I didn't really know what I was doing. I was told to check this site out for tips, so I ended up going for a summoner build.

I doubt I'd have beaten the game without the advice I've read here.

Now I have to try and figure out what I want to play next ...

I was considering adding a disclaimer at the end of my post that said "unless they build a summoner", because Summoners are without question the easiest build in the game. As long as you spend 20 in RS and 20 in SM, and get at least +5 to +10 skills (easily doable, even no-twink), then you can beat the game with a Summoner without breaking a sweat.

Also, there are other "first-time" builds that can beat the game, but only if you don't mind dying a lot in the process as you learn the ropes ("Hmmm... so when I kill those dolls, they explode and blow me up... interesting..."). :laugh:

Most meleemancer guides will not be your final destination. The build is still in infancy, and has countless possibilities for strengthening and diversifying the build; it is open for your fun and enjoyment.
I don't know if I'd say that Meleemancing is "still in its infancy", since people have been making Meleemancers since the very first month of Diablo II, but I do agree that there's a lot of opportunity for diversification. Meleemancing is all just a mindset (the mindset of engaging monsters with a weapon), and there are lots of different playstyles that all conform to the basic mindset. I, myself, have built three different meleemancers, and none of them resembled each other in the slightest. :smiley: