what druid is the best PvM?

[fordraceingman]

talking single player one that hopfully later after some time invested could solo 8 player games

thanks

[Verashiden]

Shock Bear + Summon or Some attack hybrid. Best crowd controller in the game.

[fordraceingman]

and they can solo hell in /players 8 ?

hows a wearwolf? wearbear? and windy compare to that?

[rolling stoned]

shockwave+maul+hunger = crowd control, dmg, and an easy way to leech life back :thumbsup:

[Kirah]

Welcome to the wild, wild world of wolves!

Check out Electric Blue's guide on the hybrid summoner/fury wolf! With the right stuff you'll be able to rip your way through everything, have massive life, be able to summon minions that give 'auras' (OS / HoW), summon blinding ravens that help with crowd control, and either three dire wolves or a big ole' bear that does the WWF smackdown! Lots of fun!

Good luck and good hunting!
Kirah

Awooo!!!!

[Cdnexpat]

Soloing 8 player hell is more dependant on gear than on build. Casters do it by having a boatload of + to skills and melee do it by having a lot of CB and doing a ton of damage. Pretty much any of the standard builds be they wind wolf, bear or summoner can solo hell and some can do quite well with cheaper gear. There are some exceptions but as a general rule all builds kill slowly if you are soloing in 8 player games. If you can give a suggestion as to how much you have to invest in this project and if you want melee or caster it would be easier to make specific suggestions.

[SSoG]

and they can solo hell in /players 8 ?

hows a wearwolf? wearbear? and windy compare to that?

About the only druid builds that can achieve a decent killspeed in Players 8 are Fireclaw Bears, Fury Wolves, and Windy Druids... although you're going to need some very high-end gear to do it.

My favorite druid build is the Fireclaws Bear, because it's the only one of the three "power builds" that has access to Shockwave, one of the best safety skills in the entire game.

[Madagou]

My pure fury druid does better than OK in a hell 8 player game, for lister it takes about 1 - 2 to take him down i think, and normal other monsters half a fury.

It does 5k-20k at 4fpa, has 3.2k life with Bo, max res and 85 res in light.
So the only thing that killed it so far is of course iron maiden, and a pack of those flying winged things in worldstone keep which had might aura.

[fordraceingman]

what is a fury druid? (ive never really played a druid)
what does shockwave do?

thanks

[SSoG]

what is a fury druid? (ive never really played a druid)
what does shockwave do?

thanks

Fury Druid is a Werewolf Druid that uses the Fury Skill. Fury is basically Zeal for Werewolves, except with a lot more ED% to make up for the lack of Fanaticism.

Shockwave stuns enemies. Slvl 15 Shockwave stuns for the full 10 seconds (which is maximum stun time). Since Stun isn't reduced by difficulty (slvl 15 Shockwave stuns for 10 seconds in Normal, Nightmare, *AND* Hell alike), Shockwave is one of the best crowd control skills in the game. It's basically like a directional War Cry (it's got about twice the range, but you have to aim it in a particular direction rather than having it go all around you), except it can't kill like War Cry can, and it has *WAY* longer stun.

[fordraceingman]

But the best werewolf druid is a Fury Druid correct?

are they better PVM then a windy and a werebear?

how are they untwinked from start through hell?

BTW im trying to look at guides but it seems like the guides links are broken

[Queen Mebd]

My favorite druid build is the Fireclaws Bear, because it's the only one of the three "power builds" that has access to Shockwave, one of the best safety skills in the entire game.

I'll second that. Running my fc bear (keeping in mind I use him mostly for pvp) through hell was a cinch. Everything that wasn't fire immune died quick. And everything that was got stunned via shockwaved and skirted around - shockwave is a beautiful skill.

[Monopoly]

dont you think a wind drood can do some dmg in pve? maby a wind/sumon so he can pick the imunes?

[HuggieTheBear]

PVM wise, I would say a Wind druid beats the other guys. I say this because the fury needs really specific gear to be made a powerhouse (which can be expensive). While a windy is good right out of the box.

[Liquid_Evil]

About the only druid builds that can achieve a decent killspeed in Players 8 are Fireclaw Bears, Fury Wolves, and Windy Druids... although you're going to need some very high-end gear to do it.

You forgot physical damage Werebears (which I personally hold the highest of all pvm wereform...they just need *great* gear). They have GREAT crowd control, leech, and damage but are often forgotten because all three aspects come from different skills (Shockwave, Hunger, and Maul respectively). Properly equipped they destroy the killspeed times of Fireclaws bears.

If there is one overrated druid tree its summoning. Aside from the godly and very pwnworthy spirits, Oak and HoW, I think that dire wolves and grizzly's aren't very competitive when it comes to damage. Aside from making decent distractions (and with a good merc, how many do you really need?), I found the pets to be pretty poor in comparison to doing the damage yourself.

I'd say that the Wind Druid will be the easiest untwinked. You just need a certain level of fast cast (99) and +skills. Melee characters are much more gear dependent, usually needing great weapons to keep up with casters.

[Cdnexpat]

But the best werewolf druid is a Fury Druid correct?

are they better PVM then a windy and a werebear?

how are they untwinked from start through hell?

BTW im trying to look at guides but it seems like the guides links are broken

Untwinked Fury, I would go with IK maul, gloves, belt and boots. I'd try for duress armor or a cheap elite unique that gives a bonus to strenght, Jalal's for a helm, a raven ring, the other ring and ammy i'd see what else I needed/could find.

Untwinked windy, wizard spike or spirit sword, spirit sheild, vipermagi armor, jalals again (or rare if you get lucky), trangs gloves and belt,40 rw boots (there are a few to choose from the one from the sin set would probably be best), a fcr ring, an ammy that boosts ele skills or +2 druid,.

Most of this stuff is pretty cheap, a 4os monarch for spirit isn't so cheap but you could run the pits till you got one. If you got lucky spirit rolls you could possibly give up viper and use skullder's as armor.

[SSoG]

You forgot physical damage Werebears (which I personally hold the highest of all pvm wereform...they just need *great* gear). They have GREAT crowd control, leech, and damage but are often forgotten because all three aspects come from different skills (Shockwave, Hunger, and Maul respectively). Properly equipped they destroy the killspeed times of Fireclaws bears.
Physical damage Werebears are, in my opinion, overrated. Fury gives almost as much ED% with 20 skill points than Werebears get with 40 (max Werebear and Maul). Fury Wolves also attack faster, and have drastically better AR. In the end, higher damage, faster attack, and better AR means Fury Wolves are head and shoulders above Maulers in the physical damage department- especially since it takes high-end Maulers 13 or more hits to fully charge up the ED from Maul (meaning for the first 12 hits, they're dealing less damage per hit than Fury- sometimes significantly less).

Also, I've never seen any mauler of any description that could deal as much damage as an insane Fireclaws Bear. A really, really high-end Fireclaws Bear can deal 150,000 fire damage per second. I have yet to see a Mauler that could even deal a third of that.

If there is one overrated druid tree its summoning. Aside from the godly and very pwnworthy spirits, Oak and HoW, I think that dire wolves and grizzly's aren't very competitive when it comes to damage. Aside from making decent distractions (and with a good merc, how many do you really need?), I found the pets to be pretty poor in comparison to doing the damage yourself.
True, but it's just a question of safety. The more safety a skill provides, the less damage it provides. It's just like how Strafe deals less damage than Zeal, and Hydra deals less damage than Meteor. A very well-geared Summoner can get his minions to deal 10,000 damage per second, which is still very good, and he's 100% IM-proof, to boot.

I'd say that the Wind Druid will be the easiest untwinked. You just need a certain level of fast cast (99) and +skills. Melee characters are much more gear dependent, usually needing great weapons to keep up with casters.
Fireclaw Bears are also ridiculously easy untwinked- probably easier than Windy Druids. All you need is a fistful of shaels. A 6-shaeled Phase Blade is actually the uberest weapon on the planet. I've made guardian wearing Smoke armor (Nef + Lum), a 3-PDiamond Large Shield, and a 6-Shael Phase Blade (as well as an imbued Pelt and a gambled Amulet with +2 Druid and +2 Shapeshifting, respectively).

Untwinked Fury, I would go with IK maul, gloves, belt and boots. I'd try for duress armor or a cheap elite unique that gives a bonus to strenght, Jalal's for a helm, a raven ring, the other ring and ammy i'd see what else I needed/could find.

Untwinked windy, wizard spike or spirit sword, spirit sheild, vipermagi armor, jalals again (or rare if you get lucky), trangs gloves and belt,40 rw boots (there are a few to choose from the one from the sin set would probably be best), a fcr ring, an ammy that boosts ele skills or +2 druid,.

Most of this stuff is pretty cheap, a 4os monarch for spirit isn't so cheap but you could run the pits till you got one. If you got lucky spirit rolls you could possibly give up viper and use skullder's as armor.
Most of that stuff *is* pretty cheap, but I don't think you understand what untwinked is. Untwinked means only self-found stuff, not just really cheap stuff. So even if you could trade for an IK Maul for mere pennies on the dollar, it's still not a very good gear suggestion untwinked, since you'd need to run Hell Diablo 500 times or so in order to get one (and how you're going to run Hell Diablo when you don't already have the IK Maul is beyond me).

Generally the best untwinked gear recommendations are really cheap runewords (such as Smoke, Lionheart, Honor, that sort of thing), because while you cannot count on finding particular uniques or sets, you *CAN* count on finding particular low-to-middling runes.

The odds of finding an IK Maul, IK Boots, IK Belt, IK Gloves, an Um (for duress), a Jalal's, *AND* a Ravenfrost by the end of Act 2 Hell are pretty much nonexistant, unless you're willing to do thousands of magic-find runs. Ditto that for the odds of finding a Wizzy, Jalal's, Trang's Gloves, and Trang's Belt, although dual Spirits and the rest were good recommendations (it's good to focus more on the mods that you're looking for than on specific pieces of gear that might have those mods).

[AnimeCraze]

If untwinked, I would rather go for windy. You can ignore your resist (cyclone armor, and carry antidotes if you have to), and +skills and FCR items are easy to come by (lore, stealth, spirit, +3 element ammy). With good playing (or maybe you need near perfect play), you should hardly get hit at all, making defense gear irrelevent.

[Cdnexpat]

Physical damage Werebears are, in my opinion, overrated. Fury gives almost as much ED% with 20 skill points than Werebears get with 40 (max Werebear and Maul). Fury Wolves also attack faster, and have drastically better AR. In the end, higher damage, faster attack, and better AR means Fury Wolves are head and shoulders above Maulers in the physical damage department- especially since it takes high-end Maulers 13 or more hits to fully charge up the ED from Maul (meaning for the first 12 hits, they're dealing less damage per hit than Fury- sometimes significantly less).

Also, I've never seen any mauler of any description that could deal as much damage as an insane Fireclaws Bear. A really, really high-end Fireclaws Bear can deal 150,000 fire damage per second. I have yet to see a Mauler that could even deal a third of that.


True, but it's just a question of safety. The more safety a skill provides, the less damage it provides. It's just like how Strafe deals less damage than Zeal, and Hydra deals less damage than Meteor. A very well-geared Summoner can get his minions to deal 10,000 damage per second, which is still very good, and he's 100% IM-proof, to boot.


Fireclaw Bears are also ridiculously easy untwinked- probably easier than Windy Druids. All you need is a fistful of shaels. A 6-shaeled Phase Blade is actually the uberest weapon on the planet. I've made guardian wearing Smoke armor (Nef + Lum), a 3-PDiamond Large Shield, and a 6-Shael Phase Blade (as well as an imbued Pelt and a gambled Amulet with +2 Druid and +2 Shapeshifting, respectively).


Most of that stuff *is* pretty cheap, but I don't think you understand what untwinked is. Untwinked means only self-found stuff, not just really cheap stuff. So even if you could trade for an IK Maul for mere pennies on the dollar, it's still not a very good gear suggestion untwinked, since you'd need to run Hell Diablo 500 times or so in order to get one (and how you're going to run Hell Diablo when you don't already have the IK Maul is beyond me).

Generally the best untwinked gear recommendations are really cheap runewords (such as Smoke, Lionheart, Honor, that sort of thing), because while you cannot count on finding particular uniques or sets, you *CAN* count on finding particular low-to-middling runes.

The odds of finding an IK Maul, IK Boots, IK Belt, IK Gloves, an Um (for duress), a Jalal's, *AND* a Ravenfrost by the end of Act 2 Hell are pretty much nonexistant, unless you're willing to do thousands of magic-find runs. Ditto that for the odds of finding a Wizzy, Jalal's, Trang's Gloves, and Trang's Belt, although dual Spirits and the rest were good recommendations (it's good to focus more on the mods that you're looking for than on specific pieces of gear that might have those mods).

Color me corrected. I thought the term for that was pure and that untwinked was starting from scratch but that trading things you found for other stuff was acceptable.

[Oniflame]

Color me corrected. I thought the term for that was pure and that untwinked was starting from scratch but that trading things you found for other stuff was acceptable.

I was under the same impression.

[Ed from Russia]

Although there are different opinions on what untwinked means, I think the general consensus is as SSoG describes: only using equipment that the character finds himself. This is pretty tough, and many common builds are simply not feasible untwinked in Hell. The ones that are doable are the ones where damage comes from skills and not from equipment.

For the Druid the best options are Fireclaws bear and Windy. I think both are doable and it's impossible to judge which is better. But since they have completely different play styles, you should just pick the one you think suits you, or the one you feel like at the moment.

[SSoG]

I was under the same impression.
The definition varies a lot from individual to individual, but the accepted standard is "self-found items only". Everything else is either low-twink, or budget, or something else. Many untwinked players even go so far as to refuse to mule on so much as a Full Rejuv or a PGem (or accept them as gifts from others), to the point where I once fought DClone with someone who only had 3 Full Juvs, because he'd just used most of his store and refused to take some of my spares.

[Liquid_Evil]

Physical damage Werebears are, in my opinion, overrated. Fury gives almost as much ED% with 20 skill points than Werebears get with 40 (max Werebear and Maul). Fury Wolves also attack faster, and have drastically better AR. In the end, higher damage, faster attack, and better AR means Fury Wolves are head and shoulders above Maulers in the physical damage department- especially since it takes high-end Maulers 13 or more hits to fully charge up the ED from Maul (meaning for the first 12 hits, they're dealing less damage per hit than Fury- sometimes significantly less).

Also, I've never seen any mauler of any description that could deal as much damage as an insane Fireclaws Bear. A really, really high-end Fireclaws Bear can deal 150,000 fire damage per second. I have yet to see a Mauler that could even deal a third of that.

Physical werebears overrated? I think they are the most underrated and underplayed "common" variants in all of Diablo. Fire claws bears are good in their own right but they have some glaring problems. Fire Immunes make up something like a third of all the immunes in Hell, being the most common of all the immunities. Sure everything that isn't FI simply melts away, but everything that is FI (roughly a third of the hell monsters?) is basically a brick wall. Fire claws also doesn't leech. They swing super fast for lots of fire damage but are inferior to proper Maulers who are able to tackle anything in the game by themselves. Fury wolves are also not as good simply because of the lack of Shockwave and the dependence on Life Tap. This is all just one man's opinion though (but I've built them all).

A well-equipped Mauler can achieve the following: (very real stats)
-3.5-16K physical Maul dmg (6 fpa, 2hand)
-1-4K physical Hunger dmg (5 fpa, 2hand)
-lvl 15 Shockwave (10 second stun)
-3K life
-8K defense
-10K AR
-50% Crushing Blow
-64% Deadly Strike (scaling)
-Max Resists (80 LR)
-300% ED (Fort)
-350% Dmg to Demons (Dracul's aren't needed with use of Hunger)
-190% Dmg to Undead (with Tomb Reaver)
-7 frame FHR
and a merc equipped with a Reaper's Toll and appropriate targeting allows for a Decrepify curse to be piled on top of all these already nice stats.

[Strid]

A patient druid with little to no life or simply too much time on his hands is probably the better PvM druid. Been there, done that, tried about every build there is.


Probably a wolfie, in my opinion. If you got good caster items, then go with a teleporting wind druid. They're rather easy to play, which is why they're also popular for PvP.

[SSoG]

Physical werebears overrated? I think they are the most underrated and underplayed "common" variants in all of Diablo. Fire claws bears are good in their own right but they have some glaring problems. Fire Immunes make up something like a third of all the immunes in Hell, being the most common of all the immunities. Sure everything that isn't FI simply melts away, but everything that is FI (roughly a third of the hell monsters?) is basically a brick wall. Fire claws also doesn't leech. They swing super fast for lots of fire damage but are inferior to proper Maulers who are able to tackle anything in the game by themselves. Fury wolves are also not as good simply because of the lack of Shockwave and the dependence on Life Tap. This is all just one man's opinion though (but I've built them all).

A well-equipped Mauler can achieve the following: (very real stats)
-3.5-16K physical Maul dmg (6 fpa, 2hand)
-1-4K physical Hunger dmg (5 fpa, 2hand)
-lvl 15 Shockwave (10 second stun)
-3K life
-8K defense
-10K AR
-50% Crushing Blow
-64% Deadly Strike (scaling)
-Max Resists (80 LR)
-300% ED (Fort)
-350% Dmg to Demons (Dracul's aren't needed with use of Hunger)
-190% Dmg to Undead (with Tomb Reaver)
-7 frame FHR
and a merc equipped with a Reaper's Toll and appropriate targeting allows for a Decrepify curse to be piled on top of all these already nice stats.

I've build a big Mauler before, and I definitely enjoyed it (give me Shockwave and I'm a happy camper :smiley: ), when I said it was "overrated" I just meant that I feel like it's the poor cousin of the shapeshift tree. The entire time I was playing my Mauler, I kept thinking how he wasn't as good as my Fury Wolf, my Fireclaw Bear, or my Fire/Physical Hybrid Bear.

[Strid]

I've build a big Mauler before, and I definitely enjoyed it (give me Shockwave and I'm a happy camper :smiley: ), when I said it was "overrated" I just meant that I feel like it's the poor cousin of the shapeshift tree. The entire time I was playing my Mauler, I kept thinking how he wasn't as good as my Fury Wolf, my Fireclaw Bear, or my Fire/Physical Hybrid Bear.

I agree, they can definitely hold their own, but they're not as effective as werewolves. I feel they're around 75% as good as werewolves (my own subjective impression). Where they really shine, though, is in parties, especially untwinked and at lower levels. Shockwave is simply the ultimate crowd control for smaller melee parties. Also your spirit will benefit the entire party = nice.