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View Full Version : I Killed Diablo with Ravens - RAVEN SKILL ASSESSMENT


Ed from Russia
13-02-2007, 12:38
I announced 2 weeks ago that I would try to kill Normal Diablo with Ravens only, and I did. Sort-of. My merc did some damage until he died (pretty soon, and I didn't revive him), and My Grizzly hit him a couple of times, though I tried to prevent him from getting close.

It took about 25 minutes to kill Diablo. While my Ravens pecked at him I just stayed out of the way. Ravens have a good range so I never felt unsafe; at a distance you can avoid Diablo's attacks quit easily.

Here's an assessment of the skill Raven, since I had the opportunity to experiment in Normal and Nightmare (Act I-III).

RAVEN – SKILL ASSESSMENT

ADVANTAGES

- Ravens cannot be targeted, they don’t receive damage, and they are unaffected by Curses and auras. Monsters are hit no matter what.
- They blind monsters they hit (see Appendix for formula). At slvl 16 all monsters of your level and below are blinded, at slvl 20 even those 4 levels higher are blinded. Blinded monsters stay in one place and cannot fire missiles, revive monsters, lay eggs, etc. Cast 1-2 Ravens close to a ranged attacker to distract him.
- Ravens have a wider ‘visual range’ than you and your minions; they spot enemies before anyone else does and fly in that direction. This makes them good scouts.
- Monsters are distracted by Ravens and you can block-lock them.
- Recasting is not a problem once you reach slvl 15-20; you need to recast them every 2 minutes, comparable to skills such as Fade and Holy Shield.
- In Act I-II Normal they do a lot of damage (more than your Dire Wolves), and you’ll kill Andariel and Duriel faster than you can imagine.

DISADVANTAGES

- You can only have 5 Ravens.
- The damage they deal stays very small and becomes insignificant in Nightmare and Hell. Damage cannot be increased by auras, Heart of Wolverine or by any other effect.
- Although Raven blind monsters they hit, you cannot rely on them to blind fast monster before they get close to you. They often target the same monsters several times and leave others untouched.
- Blind does not work on Super-Uniques and bosses, or physical immunes.
- Blinded monsters can still deal damage if you or your minions come close.

EFFECTIVENESS OF RAVEN

The only reason to max Raven is because of the blinding effect; the damage is negligible. However, blinding turns out to be quite effective, and can really stop attackers from getting close to you. Casting Ravens close to ranged attackers or reviving monsters works well, and helps you to take out groups quicker.

To use Raven effectively you need to have at slvl 15-20, otherwise the chance to blind is too low, and you need to recast too often. There is no good reason to increase Raven beyond slvl 20, because the chance to blind is already 100% and the increase in damage is hardly noticeable. This includes ‘+ to skills’ you get from equipment, so you probably want to get Raven to about slvl 10 only.

WHEN TO USE RAVEN

There is only one build in which Raven should be used: the pure Hunter druid. This is the only build that can spare the points:

20 Dire Wolves
20 Grizzly
15-20 Poison Creeper
15-20 Oak Sage / Heart of Wolverine
10 Raven
Total 80-90.

The common alternative is to put the points in Spirit Wolves, but this does little to make your minions more effective, and Ravens are probably a better choice.

If you don’t mind using other skill trees, you have some options that may be better than Raven:
- Shockwave: this stuns monsters, which is more effective than blinding, but you will need to fight melee (Maul bear).
- Max Cyclone Armor and 1 pt in Hurricane. Hurricane chills monsters and makes it easier for you and your minions to kill them.

In other builds (Wind / Fire Druid, Werewolf / Werebear) you rarely have points to spare to put in Raven. If you have points your first choice should be Grizzly or Poison Creeper, which are more effective. However, if you intend to use Ravenlore (unique Druid Pelt with +7 to Raven), you may get to slvl 16 with only 1 point in Raven. In that case you should cast them as often as you can.

CONCLUSION

Unfortunately Ravens are not as effective as most other Druid minions (Dire Wolves, Grizzly, Poison Creeper), and there is no reason to use them unless you have points to spare or you simply like the way they look.

It is a shame that Blizzard decided to limit its number to 5. At 1 Raven per skill point I would definitely max this skill much more often; 20-30 Ravens would be awesome.

APPENDIX – FORMULA FOR BLINDING

Chance to Blind = 50 + (clvl + slvl – mlvl – 6) *5

Where:
clvl = character level
slvl = skill level (incl bonuses from gear)
mlvl = monster level of target

From this you can derive the following rules:
- Each skill point you add increases the blinding chance by 5%
- At slvl 16, you have a 100% chance to blind an enemy of your level or below
- At slvl 20, you will blind any monster that is maximum 4 levels higher than you

Ravens cannot blind champions, uniques, and bosses. The also don’t blind monsters with physical immunity, because they need to deal damage.

Verashiden
20-02-2007, 08:47
- Ravens cannot be targeted, they don’t receive damage

Incorrect. Raven's actually can be killed by a Sorc's Chilling armor. I've run tests and the Ravens vanish long before they achieve their listed number of hits.

Congrats on killing Diablo though.

superjayson
20-02-2007, 15:58
Incorrect. Raven's actually can be killed by a Sorc's Chilling armor. I've run tests and the Ravens vanish long before they achieve their listed number of hits.

Congrats on killing Diablo though.


I think thunderstorm can kill them as well.

Verashiden
20-02-2007, 16:14
Hmm, I haven't tried with Tstorm. Once I snag my firend I'll test that too.

Ed from Russia
20-02-2007, 21:49
Incorrect. Raven's actually can be killed by a Sorc's Chilling armor. I've run tests and the Ravens vanish long before they achieve their listed number of hits.


You're right - I've heard that before. I never really play PvP so that hadn't occured to me.
Never heard about Thunderstorm killing Ravens, look forward to Verashiden's verdict.

hoi
20-02-2007, 22:04
Unfortunately Ravens are not as effective as most other Druid minions (Dire Wolves, Grizzly, Poison Creeper), and there is no reason to use them unless you have points to spare or you simply like the way they look.

O rly. Haven't heard of anyone saying otherwise so your test was kind of a waste of time and a waste of a char. sorry

Verashiden
21-02-2007, 00:54
... Because it's something to do? Like you posting in this topic for essentially spam?

Anyways. I won't be able to test until way late. Hockey > you all. I'll get you that verdict sometime tonight though.

Lyrs
21-02-2007, 03:28
Yeah, they shouldn't have capped the number of Ravens, especially because it's weaker and even less effective than Dim Vision. Having 30-40 ravens flying around sure would make for an awesome Character build though.

Ed from Russia
21-02-2007, 12:47
O rly. Haven't heard of anyone saying otherwise so your test was kind of a waste of time and a waste of a char. sorry

The fact that the test is disappointing doesn't make it a waste of time. But I apologize to you for wasting your precious time.

I'm continuing this build as a Hunter, and I am quite enjoying it. The last pure hunter I built must have been 2 years ago.

Kirah
22-02-2007, 02:38
Oh my god Ed, you're starting to scare me! Congrads on the kill of the Big D with a totally off-the-wall skill! Starts to remind me of superdave. Only superdave had waay to much patience and determination to make a crazy build work and now that you've switched to a Hunter build, I know that you're not insane enough to try to take a raven master into hell and back.

good luck and good hunting!
Kirah

Jary
22-02-2007, 03:23
LOL. You're insane man, absolutely insane! >< but I love it, that's hilarious. Is your next plan to psychic hammer D to death>? :grin: