My WW Sin Hybrid, evaluate please!

[Updawg]

Alright this Assassin hasn't been built yet but I have all the gear ready, I currently have a WW/MB/Kicker sin that I'm converting into this new assassin as followed:

This is for a level 89(pretty attainable) Build PvP Assassin:

At level 89 you have 100 Skill points and 455 stat points assuming you have done all the quests.

Used Skills(83 points):
20 Venom
20 Claw Mastery
10 Weapon Block
08 Fade (or what ever will get you 50 dr with gear, my gear has 18%)
20 Lightning Sentry
01 Dragon Talon (or 0 if a claw mod, personally like against bosses)
01 Shadow Master (don't get this a claw mod unless you have a hard point)
01 Mind Blast (or 0 if a claw mod)
01 Blade Shield (or 0 if a claw mod, saves 3 skill points!)
01 Dragon Flight (or 0 if a claw mod, saves up to 3 points!)

Unused Skills (8 pts)
05 Charged Bolt Sentry (max this out as you get beyond 89)
01 Death Sentry (or this)
01 Shock Web (or this)
01 Charged Bolt (or this)

Pre Reqs (9 Pts)

(All my gear is legit except the two 15/15 jewels)
Gear (this below is what I'm using):
Claw 1: Chaos Claw +2 Dragon Flight +2 Lightning Sentry
Claw 2: Chaos Claw +2 Dragon Flight +2 Lightning Sentry
On Switch: CTA/Spirit ( my cta has 136 dex req =( )
Helmet: Crown of Ages socketed with 2 15/15 jewels
Body Armor: AP Enigma
Belt: Arachnid's Mesh
Gloves: Trang's Gloves.
Ring 1: 10%FCR + 20 str 8% Cold Resist Half freeze duration
Ring 2: Raven Frost 20 Dex 202 ar
Ammy: +2 Sin 18% FCR (bunch of random usless mods)
Boots: Shadow Dancers +2 Shadow +19 Dex (working on getting 25 dex)

Charms:
3/20/20 Assassin Torch (yes, this is legit)
18/18/8 Annihilus (looking for a 20/x/x)
9x Shadow Discipline Grand Charms
11x 20 SC Lifers

Stat Point Distribution (the amount on top of the base stat points):
Strength: 29 or 31 (depending if I trade for an annilihus)
Dexterity: 31 or 39 (depending if I trade for an annilihus plus perfect shadow dancers)
Vitality: 395 or 385 (depending on gear)
Energy: 0

With Gear at Level 89:
Str: 194
Dex: 136
Vit: 455
Energy: 65

Breakdown of Character:
Between my enigma and COA I have 18% DR. With level 8 fade and skill bonuses I'll have level 32 Fade reaching the 50% DR limit. Claw block will have about a 62% Chance to block and I'll have max resists in hell. Also I'll have 4 frame WW speed along with Level 45 Venom and Level 38 Lightning Sentry. You'll also break the 75% fcr frame rate. Great for trap laying, mind blasting, and teleporting.

Dueling:
Switch to your CTA/Spirit precast Battle Command & Battle orders along with venom, fade, blade shield, shadow master, and recast Battle Command & Battle orders.

Switch back to your two claws any lay traps around you as defense, the traps will stun and do a descent amount of damage(2.1k). Cast cloak of shadows (level 24) which increases your defense by 79% and lowers op pents by 84%. On your left click have dragon flight always enabled and on your right teleport. Never run with your character because weapon block goes to 0 while moving, so only teleport or dragon flight there. Once in range switch to WW and make smooth triangles around opponent. Stun your opponent with MB lay traps in surrounding area and continue to WW.

[Von Lazuli]

Hmm... A few comments.
1) Your skill layout reveals that you come from a WWsin background. The high Claw Mastery and Weapon block are not really really needed. By putting 9 more points into weapon block you gain about 3% block, where you could gain a very decent amount of trap damage. Also, Claw mastery is a tricky one, and is what really decides your breakdown between WW and Traps. Do what you will with this, but I warn you, too much claw mastery and your traps will do nothing, too little and you will have quite low attack rating.

2) Gear: 2 Chaos claws is a no no, Chaos adds only a little to your whirling, where Fury or a Fool's claw have a lot they could add. (If you are wearing Chaos for the strength... don't) Fury has similiar physical damage and heaps of open wounds. Fool's has the AR you need to hit high defence opponents, and can carry more open wounds than Chaos. Also, if you intend to trap, these should be fast claws (mine are Suwayyhas, and that was a bad choice. I am remaking to Greater Talons).

The rest of your gear looks pretty good, but mods more than strength would be nice to have on the ring...

I assume you calculated he stats correctly, they look pretty normal for no switch gear.

About your dueling strategy, I know you know what you are on about, and you will be forced to learn other tricks as you go along, but it is not overly clear to a non-assassin player. Plus Cloak of Shadows is additive with the opponents defence multiplier, not multiplicative, so it doesn't work as well as you hope.

Laz

[akamaru]

i would recommend reading happys stickied thread hes pvp mod now and i followed his thread exactly (to poor to get some of the gg gear) and i own in most pubs cept for getting jumped by double teamers and against perfectly equipped duelers

[Updawg]

I've had the fury/chaos combo and I like the chaos/chaos combo more.. I really don't think the damage is negligible... also with the gear I have I should be able to get around 2.8k trap damage. I'll still have the 4 frame ww, and I will be doing 4k damage on each claw with level 16 WW which is +70% damage and +75% AR along with Cloak of Shadows... I think I will be good.

However I think I might drop my weapon block to 5 and just pump CB sentry. I really just want to shoot for 60% block.

[akamaru]

hmm i doing something wrong then i only got 3k trap dam each claw well then agian got like 6k traps

[Updawg]

What do you mean by that?

[CaptnSparrow]

Most duelers have max res, there's a 1/6th pvp reduction, and the traps have a minimum damage of (basically) 1.



I don't see the traps being much of anything but stun aids, which could be done with base level traps. If you're gonna be a hybrid you should be shooting higher on that trap damage, in my opinion.

[Updawg]

So if I had my traps at 3k with max res's and the 1/6th pvp penalty I would be doing up to 125 damage a trap so around 60 average. That is still pretty good imo especially if I'm attacking a ww barb. Where they would be hit repetively..

[yelopen]

So if I had my traps at 3k with max res's and the 1/6th pvp penalty I would be doing up to 125 damage a trap so around 60 average. That is still pretty good imo especially if I'm attacking a ww barb. Where they would be hit repetively..

125 is poor damage, believe me. The average barb has 5k-6k life. That would take 40-48 hits with LS alone. With WW it would still take forever and you will die VERY quickly. With 60 average its 83-100 hits.

With Speeder's build, you will have LS for stunning only, meaning your WW is much more effective along with maybe kicks and a high MB level.

With Happy's build, you will have around 6k traps, which is 250 instead of 125, doing twice as much damage. Sure, your WW damage suffers a little but it's sufficient.

[Updawg]

The only difference is that i'm not losing any physical/venom damage from my last build and I'm gaining LS damage which will stun and inflict "descent" damage. Each trap fires 10 say I hit with 20 while dueling a ww barb thats 1200 average damage.. plus my actual ww damage. My build when done should have 4k life. You can't kick a WW barb it's pointless.. however, I will have around level 25 mindblast with one skill point. So I'll be doing the same damage as Speeder's build while doing half the damage of Happy's Build

[soul killer]

Well its not a 100% that the barb will be nice and stand in the traps, he will move away.
Its likely that not even a single bolt of lightning will hit a good barb.
Chaos+Fury is a crap load beta than Chaos+Chaos.
Chaos+Chaos is just wrong, chaos has nothing good bout apart from str and ww.
Dont look at the Magic Dmg.

[mephiztophelez]

Alright this Assassin hasn't been built yet but I have all the gear ready, I currently have a WW/MB/Kicker sin that I'm converting into this new assassin as followed:

This is for a level 89(pretty attainable) Build PvP Assassin:

At level 89 you have 100 Skill points and 455 stat points assuming you have done all the quests.

Used Skills(83 points):
20 Venom
20 Claw Mastery
10 Weapon Block
08 Fade (or what ever will get you 50 dr with gear, my gear has 18%)
20 Lightning Sentry
01 Dragon Talon (or 0 if a claw mod, personally like against bosses)
01 Shadow Master (don't get this a claw mod unless you have a hard point)
01 Mind Blast (or 0 if a claw mod)
01 Blade Shield (or 0 if a claw mod, saves 3 skill points!)
01 Dragon Flight (or 0 if a claw mod, saves up to 3 points!)

Unused Skills (8 pts)
05 Charged Bolt Sentry (max this out as you get beyond 89)
01 Death Sentry (or this)
01 Shock Web (or this)
01 Charged Bolt (or this)

Pre Reqs (9 Pts)

(All my gear is legit except the two 15/15 jewels)
Gear (this below is what I'm using):
Claw 1: Chaos Claw +2 Dragon Flight +2 Lightning Sentry
Claw 2: Chaos Claw +2 Dragon Flight +2 Lightning Sentry
On Switch: CTA/Spirit ( my cta has 136 dex req =( )
Helmet: Crown of Ages socketed with 2 15/15 jewels
Body Armor: AP Enigma
Belt: Arachnid's Mesh
Gloves: Trang's Gloves.
Ring 1: 10%FCR + 20 str 8% Cold Resist Half freeze duration
Ring 2: Raven Frost 20 Dex 202 ar
Ammy: +2 Sin 18% FCR (bunch of random usless mods)
Boots: Shadow Dancers +2 Shadow +19 Dex (working on getting 25 dex)

Charms:
3/20/20 Assassin Torch (yes, this is legit)
18/18/8 Annihilus (looking for a 20/x/x)
9x Shadow Discipline Grand Charms
11x 20 SC Lifers

Stat Point Distribution (the amount on top of the base stat points):
Strength: 29 or 31 (depending if I trade for an annilihus)
Dexterity: 31 or 39 (depending if I trade for an annilihus plus perfect shadow dancers)
Vitality: 395 or 385 (depending on gear)
Energy: 0

With Gear at Level 89:
Str: 194
Dex: 136
Vit: 455
Energy: 65

Breakdown of Character:
Between my enigma and COA I have 18% DR. With level 8 fade and skill bonuses I'll have level 32 Fade reaching the 50% DR limit. Claw block will have about a 62% Chance to block and I'll have max resists in hell. Also I'll have 4 frame WW speed along with Level 45 Venom and Level 38 Lightning Sentry. You'll also break the 75% fcr frame rate. Great for trap laying, mind blasting, and teleporting.

Dueling:
Switch to your CTA/Spirit precast Battle Command & Battle orders along with venom, fade, blade shield, shadow master, and recast Battle Command & Battle orders.

Switch back to your two claws any lay traps around you as defense, the traps will stun and do a descent amount of damage(2.1k). Cast cloak of shadows (level 24) which increases your defense by 79% and lowers op pents by 84%. On your left click have dragon flight always enabled and on your right teleport. Never run with your character because weapon block goes to 0 while moving, so only teleport or dragon flight there. Once in range switch to WW and make smooth triangles around opponent. Stun your opponent with MB lay traps in surrounding area and continue to WW.
either put from 60-70+ points in your lit traps OR leave them at base. your traps will be insipidly weak with this build.

[HappyAssassin]

Great use of the word insipid!

Anyway, the 2k traps are really pretty useless. Maxed Mind Blast is better than that. One of the best WWsin players I know used to run a WW/Kick/Stun and switched over to a build like yours. He abandoned it pretty quickly too. A 20 point LS with no synergy is just useless. Chaos/Chaos gives you a pretty char screen and thats it. A little more physical damage is all you get off Chaos (the magic is a small hit, ctc don't go off). Fury has DS to make up for the lack of physical, way more OW and a 20% ar boost (just icing).

Well its not a 100% that the barb will be nice and stand in the traps, he will move away.
Its likely that not even a single bolt of lightning will hit a good barb.

That's rediculous theory crafting, I've never met a barb who could avoid getting hit by traps. Most of the time they get hit a LOT. The issue is that a 85 res barb tanks traps pretty damn well with 7k+ life.

[Updawg]

Thanks for the response Happy,

And on upon further testing I will either switch to a fools claw/socketed with an um used on my boot side or stick with my fury claw after reading multiple posts by you and others.

I was thinking of dropping my fade down to 5, and claw mastery to 10, and eliminating df and kicks (as my claws has + 2 to df), ultimately freeing up 19 points which would give full lightning sentry, one full synergy, and 5 in another at level 89.. which if I did the skill planner correctly would be 4k damage.

Am I just wasting these points? I think that would over compensate for my 10 taken away from claw mastery.

[order]

where do i begin....

your trap damage is not worth the points your investing into it. the bare minimum for a ghost ww/ trap hybrid should be 5k ls. if you cant reach this point i would suggest using wof traps instead since you can synergize them much easier with fewer points. wof traps will also provide you with better stunlock opportunities since you'll need to rely heavily on your ww damage.

only put enough points into clawblock to achieve 60% block. anything more than that and your wasting.

fury and chaos should be used no questions asked. with 2x chaos claws and maxed claw mastery, you may achieve an attack rating around 6k. your going to need as much ar boosting and damage infliction from melee attacks as you can possibly get. a fools modded claw would be even a better choice if you can get your hands on a nice one. most ww/ ls hybrids have a very hard time reaching ar thats sufficient to hit opponents besides casters. cloak of shadows helps, but it cannot solve all problems. finding a higher ar ravenfrost and a fcr ring with str and ar may help solve some ar problems you will be facing as well.

if you can allocate more stat points into vita. maybe trade your phaseblade cta for a lower bo crystal/ flail so you can save yourself around 40 points that can go into vita. the benefit from increased vitality should outweigh 1-2 pts of bo.

also the only way your build will achieve 4k life is with shadowlifers. if you can buy some i highly recommend them.

[Updawg]

Luckily I have come across shadow lifers in my acquisition of the best sin gear possible, however, I will most likely stick to pure ww sin with WoF and LS used to stun lock an opponent... my current build has 3.3k life but I should be able to squeeze out 50 more vit points and I definitely will try to get a cta 6bo flail.

[yelopen]

Luckily I have come across shadow lifers in my acquisition of the best sin gear possible, however, I will most likely stick to pure ww sin with WoF and LS used to stun lock an opponent... my current build has 3.3k life but I should be able to squeeze out 50 more vit points and I definitely will try to get a cta 6bo flail.

Which is basically a Speederlander sin...without kicks? I personally think a pure WW is too weak, at least add in kicks or trap damage.

[Von Lazuli]

@yelopen. Blah. Anyone you can kill with kicks you can kill with Whirlwind... Just when using kicks you never long-whirl, mis-fire or generally screw-up. Anyway, my point is that kicks are not-essential, just handy. Or maybe my point is that kicks are truly worth the 1 point investment, since you most likely use Shadow Dancers anyway.

@Updawg. I warn you, pure whirlwind has some tricky opponents that you cannot just cheat and use traps to overcome *shakes fist at ww/trap hybrids* (Whoops... I just built one, sorry Speederlander.) Because of this I reccomend that you build in a Bramble switch. I have worked out that with Greater Talons, a Fal'd BO sheild and the decision to never wear dual angelics and Jade Talon, you can get a Bramble switch at the cost of a mere 120ish life, which is indeed a cheap price to pay for all the benefits against various Builds.

Laz

[mephiztophelez]

Which is basically a Speederlander sin...without kicks? I personally think a pure WW is too weak, at least add in kicks or trap damage.
for a mere 3 point investment, it's pretty cheap too...
@yelopen. Blah. Anyone you can kill with kicks you can kill with Whirlwind...
true, but there are some opponents where kicks work better than ww, fast-cast sorc's come to mind.

[yelopen]

for a mere 3 point investment, it's pretty cheap too...

true, but there are some opponents where kicks work better than ww, fast-cast sorc's come to mind.

True, I tried using WW on my friends sorc and WW just doesn't deal damage fast enough IMO. Kick is like hold down for 4 seconds and their dead :P