Friendly suggestions for hybrids and kickers

[zejive]

Never played a hybrid, but if in a gm duel (with no heavy absorb)...perhaps frw on a helm/cat's eye/charm can help against smiters when played defensively. faster ww speed...walking smiter cannot catch up with you--allows you to tele away and set traps...bypassing speeder's trademark complete bramble switch and maintain trap damage and mobility.

dual claws setup with 3 poison faceted offhand claw and 1 facet and two ums on primary....allows defensive stance/tanking ability for dweb kickers with claw block when they need it and have effective 40% boost and -20 to poison...IF facets works from offhand.

[Queen Mebd]

Heh, makes sense now, use the Cat's Eye with "enigma" for a ww/trapper and the claw/claw for a kicker.

I suppose you could run a Cat's Eye easily on a ww/trapper. You'd be loosing either some fcr and/or skills depending which amulet/helm setup you normally run. Since you'll be using a fool's claw for the ar rather than angelics, it should be a possibly manageable switch. I would be skeptical of having less than 42 fcr if you're using a CoA as opposed to 2/20/whatever circlet. With the ciclet (20), Trang's (20) & fcr ring (10) you'd easily be able to swap it in without losing the bp. Happy's guide actually doesn't call for angelics for a smiter setup though, you might be thinking of Speeder's guide there:

I have on a couple occasions seen people mention sticking with "enigma" for the mobility like you mention (give the comments posted on the ww/trapper guide for sticky a look).

As far as the claw/claw setup for kickers, I'll wait for someone more experienced with that particular type of 'sin to chime in.

[zejive]

Wait, you mention using the fr/w on Cat's Eye for more ww speed, then mention using a 15/15 claw and a 5/5/50 ow claw? I'm missing something here, are these two different setups? As if you use both at the same time you're losing ww by not having "Chaos" equipped. If you did mean to use the claw setup for kicking I can see that being problematic; Speeder's guide call's for using a Giant Skull for the kb against smiters - allowing you to clip them, deliver poison and ow, then knock them back out of immediate smiting range momentarily - if however a kick connects you'd just knock them out of range and have to close again to kick again. You're loosing the benefit of making them have to move after you to attack in that case.

sorry should made it clear it was two different suggestions: faster ww speed for hybrids....and claw switch for dweb kickers/claw kickers.

I've seen alot of hybrids going for a pure bramble switch setup (I believe it first suggested by speeder in his/her new ghost setup). Speeder does that because for a ghost to inflict any damage on anyone...you must hit them with ww.

However, a hybrid (ww/trapper) don't necessarily need to hit with ww to inflict damage....by introducing frw into the build against a walking smiter, a hybrid can always maintain a good distance between them and let traps do all the work. the key here is to have enough frw to be able to tele away when approached by a walking smiter..if your ww speed is faster than their walking speed you will always be able to have the option to tele away and not engaged in any ww. Again, i don't play a hybrid nor do I have a dueler ghost now to test out how much frw i would need to out ww a walking smiter. But as far I know....with a pure ghost setup, a walking smiter will always be able to get very close to me and it can be hard tele away (even with knockback). Perhaps an addition of cat's eye by itself will give you alot of window to not engage in any contact and to tele away after traps runs out.

[GalenDoUrden]

To tell you the truth I haven't really had problems with smiters. I ww away so they have to come towards me and it's easy to hit them. I haven't lost lately to a smiter that doesn't LT me.

[wizAdept]

To tell you the truth I haven't really had problems with smiters. I ww away so they have to come towards me and it's easy to hit them. I haven't lost lately to a smiter that doesn't LT me.Thats cause you duel ****ty smiters. I kill pub smiters that way with my nats set wwsin, just ww away, they walk right into it and get pk'd. Works on 95% of smiters I encounter in public games, fails horribly against any smiter that knows what they are doing.

A good smiter player will never walk at you while you are wwing away, they will teleport a step ahead of your ww and shift-smite you as you get within range. Believe me dueling a top notch smiter or vt with a wwsin isn't an easy duel, regardless of how simple wwsin vs smiter may seem in the pubs.



@ main thread topic: frw is godly, 2/20/30 circlets are very underestimated. The problem with any trap hybrid however is you are desperate for +skills as weak traps are not much better than level 1 stuntraps, Ive always been a fan of cats eye on shadow disc pvp asns (the ones that dont use 2/15/stat or shide amulets) but on a trapper hybrid you really don't want to take away from your +skills.

Also enigma is really a must, as much as frw does help get out of range quicker and dodge attacks, you really can only r/w out of charge/smite for so long until desync catches up to you, and at that point you die. Teleport helps you relocate faster when you notice the opponent desyncing heavily towards you.

dual claws setup with 3 poison faceted offhand claw and 1 facet and two ums on primary....allows defensive stance/tanking ability for dweb kickers with claw block when they need it and have effective 40% boost and -20 to poison...IF facets works from offhandweaksauce.
If you can get claws close to them, my d2pk kicksin uses Artisans runic of Quickness (3venom/3mb/3wb staffmods) socketed UmUmUm primary and +6 venom claw (3venom/3mb/2talon) socketed with 2x 5/5 facets offhand.
Of course not too realistic on battlenet, but a +3 venom fury/ 6venom claw setup would be better than what you suggested for a kicksin.

[mephiztophelez]

Never played a hybrid.....

this is where you lost me.

[mpbu mpsu]

an assa can NEVER kill a decent smite.

[HappyAssassin]

I honesly wouldn't ever use a cat's eye on my sin vs. a smiter, because I switch to dungos and I need my 65 FCR against any good one, and especially a V/T.

Wiz, sick claws. My kicker uses a +3 Venom Fury and a Jade Talon, I'll try the facet claw idea.

A good smiter is a challange for a WWsin. If they absorb they can be downright tough. The smiters who mainly beat me are those who use FHR and the TMC mod to teleport fast, they can teleport right out of a solid trap lock and shift smite me. Most legit Smiters in GM duels are pretty easy to kill, its the GG V/Ts who are tough.

n assa can NEVER kill a decent smite.

Thanks to their 30k damage right? No.

[Speedasin]

frw is godly, 2/20/30 circlets are very underestimated.

I've been looking for one of those!

How rare are these circlets? I'd actually be happy with just a 20/30 doesn't need the skillers but it is always nice. Expensive?

[HappyAssassin]

Yes.

10chars.