PvM Untwinked Lightning Trapper

[Tok97]

Hello,

Im following jrichard's guide for an untwinked Lightning Trapper.
Im playing on Single Player and I wondered : what would suit my character better, going with maxed FireBlast, CBS, Shock Web and LightningSentry or switch Shock Web for DeathSentry?

If I go for max Shockweb, would FireBlast alone be enough to deal with fire immunes? And would my CBS without Shockweb do enough damage?

Remember that Im playing Single player untwinked.

Thanks in advance.

[ilkori]

This is just my preference, but I find CBS to be overrated. FB/LS/DS is the route I usually go. I also put my points in SW and used that along with Fire Blast in between laying down sentries. I also got a decent Shadow to come along with me.

Fireblast is enough for most lightning immunes. Every once in a while you find a boss that requires your merc to finish.

[stephan]

Do not play a trapper without a maxed Death Sentry. Certainly untwinked, it is the only trap that can take down mobs fast enough. In fact, troughout hell act 2 and 3 you'll find that FB + DS will be your main skills.

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Hello,

Im following jrichard's guide for an untwinked Lightning Trapper.
Im playing on Single Player and I wondered : what would suit my character better, going with maxed FireBlast, CBS, Shock Web and LightningSentry or switch Shock Web for DeathSentry?

If I go for max Shockweb, would FireBlast alone be enough to deal with fire immunes? And would my CBS without Shockweb do enough damage?

Remember that Im playing Single player untwinked.

Thanks in advance.


I've never gone the maxed Death Sentry route. I've played the first skill setup a number of times. It can easily go through hell untwinked. Take some time to shop for claws as the guide recommends. I prefer +2 sin claws rather than +3 trap claws for end game gear. That also allows another weapon on switch, such as a teleport staff or a wand of life tap for your merc or wand of lower resists to help your traps.

I act1 you can shop for 3socket ring mail and 2 socket helms to stuff chiped gems in and if you don't mind using a bow early you can shop for a 3 socket bow to put gems in.

I only put one point in shadow master. I find that to be enough for my playstyle. The other points that would have gone into shadow master I put into death sentry for the better radius and synergies. Use Mind blast and cloak of shadows liberally.

So my build would look like:
20 Fire Blast
18 Shock Web
20 CBS
20 LS
1+ DS (all remaining)
1 Shadow Master, Fade, Weapon Block, Cloak of Shadows , Mind Blast

Early on I find that I can't put as many points into fire blast untwinked as the guide recommends due to mana concerns, so after you add a point use it for a bit before you decide to pump it more.

[sexyfool]

So my build would look like:
20 Fire Blast
18 Shock Web
20 CBS
20 LS
1+ DS (all remaining)
1 Shadow Master, Fade, Weapon Block, Cloak of Shadows , Mind Blast

Early on I find that I can't put as many points into fire blast untwinked as the guide recommends due to mana concerns, so after you add a point use it for a bit before you decide to pump it more.

Amen,amen,amen.

I am not an sp player but i have played a few untwinked ladder chars. You need to consider several things when building an " all areas " character. First you need crowd control. Secondly you need killing power and third you need an " omg its immune to everything " option.

For light trappers I agree with Grumpy's suggestion. LS will kill very well with 2synergies and a couple of plus skill claws. DS is what you cast when you have 2 or more bodies for godly crowd control. A strong mercenary, a2 defensive for me, is what you use for the monsters that are fire/light/stone skin/mana leech/fast etc.....

DS's light damage is too low to be effective on players 8 settings but once there are bodies down the ce effect is the same at level 1 as it is at level 21, only the radius changes so..... use mb as often as possible. The monsters hate turncoats and seem, imo, to attack "converted" monsters more so than you or your minions. Create tight packs of monsters with MB and then cast DS in the middle for maximum effect. Remember that your points in fire blast increase the number of CE's you get, from memory its 1 extra CE for every 3 pts in fireblast..... I think......

The only difference I would suggest in mine and grumpy's approach is that I would leave DS at 1 and put my extra pts into MB. I like the extra stun time and chance to convert. In reality this is a matter of play style rather than of effectiveness. Either build order would be very workable pvm ladder or sp.

Best of luck. :smiley:

[BIGeyedBUG]

Death Sentry is haxx, even at one point. The FB/LS/DS build is wtfbbqwithpotatosalad haxx.

[SSoG]

I've never gone the maxed Death Sentry route. I've played the first skill setup a number of times. It can easily go through hell untwinked. Take some time to shop for claws as the guide recommends. I prefer +2 sin claws rather than +3 trap claws for end game gear. That also allows another weapon on switch, such as a teleport staff or a wand of life tap for your merc or wand of lower resists to help your traps.

I act1 you can shop for 3socket ring mail and 2 socket helms to stuff chiped gems in and if you don't mind using a bow early you can shop for a 3 socket bow to put gems in.

I only put one point in shadow master. I find that to be enough for my playstyle. The other points that would have gone into shadow master I put into death sentry for the better radius and synergies. Use Mind blast and cloak of shadows liberally.

So my build would look like:
20 Fire Blast
18 Shock Web
20 CBS
20 LS
1+ DS (all remaining)
1 Shadow Master, Fade, Weapon Block, Cloak of Shadows , Mind Blast

Early on I find that I can't put as many points into fire blast untwinked as the guide recommends due to mana concerns, so after you add a point use it for a bit before you decide to pump it more.

Since Death Sentry and Charged Bolt Sentry both provide the same synergy bonus to everything, the only reason to max one over the other is if you plan on using it. Since you maxed CBS and not Death Sentry, I can only assume that you plan on using CBS and not Death Sentry. That means you think that there are situations where CBS will outdamage Lightning Sentry. Let's look at the numbers, shall we?

First off, a damage comparison between LS and CBS assuming +12 skills (which I consider doable, no-twink, using Treachery, dual +3 Trap claws, and and +4 from your circlet/ammy), assuming only one hard point in Death Sentry. In that situation, assuming *ALL BOLTS HIT*, Charged Bolt Sentry will be dealing 3251 average damage per shot. Lightning Sentry will be dealing 2110 average damage per shot. Alright then, you might look at those numbers and say "great, so CBS is dealing more damage", but that's not really the case. You see, that's the damage if ALL BOLTS HIT from CBS, and if the bolts only hit a single monster from Lightning Sentry. If the bolts from LS pierce and hit two monsters (which they usually will), then LS is dealing 4220 damage per cast. If only 8 of the 11 Charged Bolts hit (which is actually a *GOOD* shot, in my experience), then CBS is only dealing 2364 damage per shot. Suddenly, LS is dealing twice as much damage per shot as CBS.

It gets even more unbalanced if you get even more +skills, and it becomes even more unbalanced still if you put more points into Death Sentry (which synergizes LS more than CBS). With 10 points in Death Sentry and +15 skills, CBS deals 3120 damage per cast if 8 bolts hit, while LS deals 2957 damage even if it doesn't pierce.

In the end, 98% of the time putting out a CBS is going to be a waste of a trap, compared to Lightning Sentry. Even against Act Bosses, the 2% of the time it's actually better, the difference is going to be very minor, and if the boss moves then you're screwed anyway. In my mind, it makes far more sense to pump and cast Death Sentry, since that one actually makes sense to cast (i.e. a DS is more useful than a 5th LS more than just 2% of the time, unlike CBS).

[stephan]

DS's light damage is too low to be effective on players 8 settings but once there are bodies down the ce effect is the same at level 1 as it is at level 21, only the radius changes so.....
First of all, with an untwinked trapper you are not going to play hell at players 8 unless you have a lot of patience. An untwinked trapper can get only +7-10 trap skills, which means LS with 2 synergies (I don't think FB can be ommited untwinked) will do about 1800 average damage and it takes about 22 LS shots (or 4-5 shots per 5 traps, which is half their ammo) to just take one act4 doom knight out. Since your merc is not gonna last that long (even not considering IM) you have no way out but to use MB and CoS, but this will make everything only last even longer because the conversion of MB has to wear out + it gives you less targets to hit (which makes corpse explosion less effective) and CoS is not a real good skill to get tight mobs (which again, makes a small range CE less effective). So you weren't going to kill really fast to begin with and the only way to survive is to kill even a lot slower. If you have lots of time, of course, it is not impossible, but I don't think it will be any fun to play that way. There are more challenging ways to play this game than an untwinked trapper.

About DS's range... if you have ever seen 2 or 3 DS's taking over and clear out your whole screen and way beyond that with corpse explosion heaven, you will realize that DS can never have enough range. You are making your life so much easier when you don't need the tightest of mobs for CE to work. :-)

While MB and CoS are good crowd control skills, they can really hurt your damage output, so try to avoid to use them where you can. A holy freeze merc + a shadow already provide a lot of control in most situations.