Claws of Thunder Mechanics.

[Krim]

Could anyone please inform me on how much the amount of bolts increases per level in CoT? (Claws of Thunder the Assassin Material Art skill)

I assume a Shadow Warrior would use the exact same skill, as the Assassin, so if that's the case and you have let's say 52+ to all skills (I know this isn't possible but just for seing how it works) then you've for SW:
72 / 3 + 72 / 2 = 60

Boosted by a level 60 Phoenix strike then it should get an average damage of 13k

So how many bolts will be produced?

Is this PVM viable, an Assassin using a given maxed elemental MA attack together with a maxed Phoenix Strike, and then combine with a maxed Shadow Warrior and a maxed Fade?

Thank you in advance.

[RTB]

Shadow Warrior attacks slowly (once per 30 frames or so), and IIRC the number of bolts does not change with Slvl. Not to mention the nextdelay issue with the nova and bolts.

[Krim]

Hey RTB

Hehe your answer, as most of the time, seems to open up a lot fore questions. :wink3:

Do you know what the fixed number is? :smiley:

Is it due to the AI the attack is so slow? So it will take 30 frames * 2 (Phoenix strike) + 30 frames * 3 (Charged Bolt from CoT) + 30 frames (the attack itself) = 7,2 seconds for my minion to finish off one attack?

How is the next delay on those bolts and novas, how will it effect the effectiveness of this build in damage / second wise?
I thought it work work similar to charged strike combined with the sorceress nova.

Thank you very much for your information.

[PhatTrumpet]

How is the next delay on those bolts and novas, how will it effect the effectiveness of this build in damage / second wise?
I thought it work work similar to charged strike combined with the sorceress nova.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=128208

2nd and 3rd charges have a 4-frame next-delay, meaning portions of the attack or multiple same attacks cannot hit a single target within 4 frames of eachother.

And from the guide in the Strategy Compendium (http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=599):

Keep in mind that the 2nd and 3rd charge of this skill are affected by Next Delay, a part of the game that prevents monsters from being repeatedly struck by the same dource of damage more than once in a specified period of time. The 2nd and 3rd charges are best saved for groups, while the 1st charge is best for single targets (like bosses).

[Krim]

Hi PhatTrumpet

That seems to change everything, so I guess meteor from Phoenix strike is the best single opponent killer?

Thank you.

[SSoG]

Is it due to the AI the attack is so slow? So it will take 30 frames * 2 (Phoenix strike) + 30 frames * 3 (Charged Bolt from CoT) + 30 frames (the attack itself) = 7,2 seconds for my minion to finish off one attack?
You say that is if your Shadow is smart enough to play it that way. In reality, it will go a lot more like this:

Normal attack. Phoenix. Normal Attack (release phoenix1). Phoenix. Phoenix. Phoenix. Phoenix. Phoenix. Normal attack (release phoenix3). Phoenix. Normal Attack (release Phoenix1). Normal Attack. Phoenix. Phoenix. Normal Attack (release Phoenix2).

Trying to get a shadow to release a specific charge of Phoenix is an excercise in futility.

Hi PhatTrumpet

That seems to change everything, so I guess meteor from Phoenix strike is the best single opponent killer?

Thank you.
Available to a Shadow, yes. Available to an Assassin, no- Dragon Talon is a much better single-target killer.

[Krim]

You say that is if your Shadow is smart enough to play it that way. In reality, it will go a lot more like this:

Normal attack. Phoenix. Normal Attack (release phoenix1). Phoenix. Phoenix. Phoenix. Phoenix. Phoenix. Normal attack (release phoenix3). Phoenix. Normal Attack (release Phoenix1). Normal Attack. Phoenix. Phoenix. Normal Attack (release Phoenix2).

Trying to get a shadow to release a specific charge of Phoenix is an excercise in futility.


Available to a Shadow, yes. Available to an Assassin, no- Dragon Talon is a much better single-target killer.

Hey SSoG

My intention was to use a shadow warrior and then place the attack I wanted my minion to use on both right and left tap, if that's impossible I guess the idea is pretty bad.

Thank you very much. :smiley:

My plan was getting the maximum amount of damage against one target, both for pvm, and pvp, so I assumed that CoT would work like Charged Strike of the amazon, but since that won't work, and you agreed that meteor was the best single opponent killer for a minion then would Metoer with a boost from Fist of Fire be a good combination?

With enough plus skills I guess you could cast with an averege of 1 meteor per 6th second (if as stated above works with two tapped skills for complete control)

I guess I'll try to make a damage comparision between a shadow warrior and a sorceress both using meteoor. Assuming the minion casts a meteor
each 6th second, eventhough I'm not sure how many Fist of Fire attacks that is needed for an actual synergi to take place?

Now assuming the fire duration is last atleast 6 seconds for metoer of the Shadow Warrior and metoer for the Sorceress:

Phoenix Strike / Fist of Fire
During 12 seconds: (One whole 6 seconds fire duration of FoF and Phoenix strike and one hits from each)
Shadow Warrior: 20/20: 2 * 1152 + 972 * 6 + 2 * 717 + 648 * 6 = 13,5k
Shadow Warrior: 40/40: 2 * 6310 + 5832 * 6 + 2 * 5486 + 3888 * 6 = 81,9k
Shadow Warrior: 60/60: 2 * 15554 + 14575 * 6 + 2 * 14645 + 9717 * 6 = 206k

Metoer / Fire Mastery
During 12 seconds: (Three whole fire durations of Meteor and fire clean hits)
Sorc: 20/20: 4 * 7085 + 1103 * 9 = 38,2k
Sorc: 40/40: 4 * 30925 + 3504 * 9 = 155k
Sorc: 60/60: 4 * 69037 + 7165 * 9 = 341k

So it's clear that metoer is a lot more effective, but getting more plus skills to the Shadow Warrior seems to increase the fire damage a lot more, eventhough 60/60 isn't possible I guess 50/50 may be.

Using the 40/40 and assuming that you've an equal amount of +skills to all threes you'd need x / 3 + x / 2 = 40 <=> x = 48
so a total of 48+ skills.

So the average damage would be 81,9k / 12 seconds = 6.8k per second
After penalties in pvp this ends up being: (assuming 95% fire resist and 0,17 pvp penalty) just about 55 damage per second. That seems extremely low, and it would take 1 minute and 12 seconds to kill an opponent with 4k life.

So isn't there anything the shadow warrior can use that is more suited for pvp, but doesn't take too many skill points to get? :smiley:

Thank you in advance.

[SSoG]

Hey SSoG

My intention was to use a shadow warrior and then place the attack I wanted my minion to use on both right and left tap, if that's impossible I guess the idea is pretty bad.
When you place a skill on your left and right mouse buttons, your Shadow has three choices. She can use your LMB attack, she can use your RMB attack, or she can use Normal Attack. Since she'll keep on mixing in those normal attacks before she's charged up as much as you'd like, it's pretty much impossible to get a Shadow to release a specific charge of any of the martial arts skills. Sometimes she'll release too early, sometimes she'll release too late.

So isn't there anything the shadow warrior can use that is more suited for pvp, but doesn't take too many skill points to get? :smiley:

Thank you in advance.
I don't PvP, but from what I hear all a Shadow is good for in PvP is Mind Blast (because she has perfect aim while MBing). Perhaps someone with more experience in the matter can weigh in, here.

[Krim]

Hi SSoG

When writing more suited for pvp I ment the skill that a Shadow Warrior can get the highest possible damage with per skill point invested.

Thank you for clearing things up with the Shadow Warrior, but I guess if it only takes one strike of FoF to synergise then you could have a synergise before entering the battle, and then just use a combination of normal attack and Phoenix strike all though I don't know how the odds of normal attack, and Phoenix strike would be split into.

Thank you very much. :smiley: