New Baal Runner

[Pooshy]

Okay- I'm making a baal runner to get quest drops (Ie i don't get Matriach, instead i just run baal in games that i can't complete the quest)
Now I am curious as to what build I should do for her.

I found Pure lightning to be boring.
I've got a firewall/orb sorc- didn't go so well.
I've got an abandoned Pure Blizz sorc (who quest dropped meph) but previous attemps at a blizz sorc left me sore doing baal runs.

I plan on using full tals set, so if I go cold and fire I don't have to put a point into CM which i kinda like. But I also want to avoid the need for skillers (possible?) instead I want to fill up on 7%mf's

I was thinking Meteor(fireball) and Frozen orb. Or Blizzard and Fireball.

Or hydra and frozen orb.

Also is baal worth quest drop running?

[PhatTrumpet]

I was thinking Meteor(fireball) and Frozen orb. Or Blizzard and Fireball.

Or hydra and frozen orb.
1. Meteorb or Blizzball are definitely your best bets with full Tal's. People like either build for various reasons. My theory is that Meteorb is mainly a focus on fire damage with cold damage as a secondary attack whereas Blizzball, while being slightly tighter on skill points, can lean towards either fire or cold (or attain a balance of both) depending on how you spend your skill points (i.e. there's the potential more flexibilty).
Also is baal worth quest drop running?
2. Depends on how you go about doing it. If you can do it relatively quickly then it's definitely worth it.

[Bjorgin]

I plan on using full tals set, so if I go cold and fire I don't have to put a point into CM which i kinda like. But I also want to avoid the need for skillers (possible?) instead I want to fill up on 7%mf's


You can use an infinity mercenary to do the effect of cold mastery for you, Allowing you to skip dumping any points into CM :jig:

[Kupa]

I use my standard Meteor/Orber to run Baal all the time, I've got a doom/might mercenary (to deal with any cold/fire immunes).

Just your standard 20 meteor, 20 fireball, 20 orb, 5-8 CM (with skills its at 17ish~), This time around I only put 1 point into firemastery, though thats because I have fire skillers. I also dumped my left over points into ice bolt, which knocks my orb upto 670~ damage, which easily deals with the last 2 waves of minions.

Never really liked BlizzBall, since I figure if your going Blizzard, mine as well max it otu w/synergies and just run mephy all day long, y'know? Sides Orb is pretty easy to aim.

-Kupa

[zebulin]

I use my standard Meteor/Orber to run Baal all the time, I've got a doom/might mercenary (to deal with any cold/fire immunes).

Just your standard 20 meteor, 20 fireball, 20 orb, 5-8 CM (with skills its at 17ish~), This time around I only put 1 point into firemastery, though thats because I have fire skillers. I also dumped my left over points into ice bolt, which knocks my orb upto 670~ damage, which easily deals with the last 2 waves of minions.

Never really liked BlizzBall, since I figure if your going Blizzard, mine as well max it otu w/synergies and just run mephy all day long, y'know? Sides Orb is pretty easy to aim.

-Kupa

You can (barely) max the synergies on blizzard using a blizzwall sorc as well.

[bergbusen]

i also had that thought which char to make. I made boltrress/fire ball, which was realy fun, but you have to got pretty good gear to make viable in hell and 125 fcr is a must. But that was the funniest sorc i build.

[smokeydeadhead]

Do baal runs have more fire immune or cold immune?

Plus is smarter to lean more towards meteor/fb or orb? I plan to do pit/meph/baal.

Oh, and can someone give me some good mf gear setup(price not important)?

thanks

[AnimeCraze]

Fire immunes. Think Lister. The venom lords have pretty good fire resist too.

[smokeydeadhead]

what about denhagen?

[Hector]

Do baal runs have more fire immune or cold immune?

Plus is smarter to lean more towards meteor/fb or orb? I plan to do pit/meph/baal.

Oh, and can someone give me some good mf gear setup(price not important)?

thanks

Fire Immunes. The 1st pack and Lister pack are all naturally Fire Immunes; some other bosses may be FI as well if they spawn Fire Enchanted or Magic Resistant. In the clearing of the room when you get there, some Doom Knights may be FI as well so you want a good cold attack. Fireball really destroys Souls better than anything, though.

None of the minion packs are naturally Cold Immunes except for the skeletons that spawn with the 2nd wave; some other bosses such as Lister may be CI as well if they spawn Cold Enchanted or Magic Resistant which will make them CI/FI so all you can do is Static and let merc kill. Clearing the room before the minions might be harder with cold because there are Succubus, Oblivion Knights and Dark Lords (those undead mages) all Immune to Cold.

Most of these immunities are unbreakable which is why most people attempt it with a Lightning sorc and Infinity to break nearly every immunities (Lister can have an unbreakable Light immunity though and it is a bit worse because against that even Static you cannot, but hopefully the merc can handle him).

[Eilo Rytyj]

You can use an infinity mercenary to do the effect of cold mastery for you, Allowing you to skip dumping any points into CM :jig:


You don't need Infinity if you're using Tal's set. You seem to forget that Tal's Orb gives all 3 masteries for free! That means you don't need to spend any points in them and still get them.


125 fcr is a must

err... someone's been playing Pallys for too long. It's 105% FCR for 8 frame normal casting. The next bp is 117% FCR for Lightning/CL/Inferno cast rate.

Do baal runs have more fire immune or cold immune?

Plus is smarter to lean more towards meteor/fb or orb? I plan to do pit/meph/baal.

Oh, and can someone give me some good mf gear setup(price not important)?

thanks

Meteorb build with full Tal's Set, Magefists, Spirit works great. A FCR ring is needed to reach 105% FCR if Spirit is less than 35% FCR.

20 points in Frozen Orb is all you need for the Cold tree. Tal's Orb grants you Cold Mastery. Don't be tempted to put that point into Cold Mastery. A mastery-less Frozen Orb kills fine until level 65, which is usually the end of NM for most characters.

20 Fire Ball, Meteor, Fire Bolt, and the rest in Fire Mastery. Max Fire Bolt first, not Fire Mastery. This gives you higher Fire Ball damage in the end, and comparable Meteor damage (only around 1k less, but you don't use Meteor as often as Fire Ball so in effect it's better that way).

The usual 1 point in Teleport, Telekinesis and Static in the Lightning tree, and the 1 in Warmth.

that's pretty much it.

[Kupa]

I rarely don't put points into CM with a Meteor/Orber tal-set user, specifically because I want to reach slvl 17 cm (-100%) that coupled with with +15% cold damage makes orb a very nice "secondary attack"

And tbh, it takes very few points away from the fire skills, which at any decent level are doing thousands of damage anyways.

I would like to mention that, although the last 2 packs of minions aren't fire immune (err or is just lister's pack?) both have some serious fire resistance, in which Orb, even a low one, works better then Meteor/Fireball.

Also, if you have a mercenary that is having trouble against boss monsters (ie: lister) that are dual immune to you, I find either high defense-equipped defiance mercenaries, or holy freeze mercenarys with some slow (kelpie snare, blackhorn's, or Reaper's Toll) makes very short work out of any serious boss that you can't damage.

Don't forget Telekinesis either, it may not damage worth a squat, but the knockback can help your merc attack lister and prevent lister from stunning your merc =P

I also suggest laying off firemastery untill you've maxed meteor/fireball and possibly firebolt. Fire mastery is nice, but not THAT important. With 1 point in FM and maxed meteor/ball my baal does 6k damage, and meteor something like 13k... I think. Havent checked raw damage for awhile.

-Kupa

[AnimeCraze]

I disagree with what you say about fire mastery. It should be added in such a way that the damage is maximum (which depends on the amount of _skills you have). There is a guide on this in this forum. Using the same # of points, fireball damage is generally, proper split > all firebolt > all fire mastery.

[Pooshy]

i personally don't use sojs (haven't found one yet, don't enjoy wearing dupes) so should i go for FCR ring+ or maybe a neatures peace? IS 35 spirit really needed or will say a 33 do? I don't know how much fcr comes with the tal set.

50 from set, 35 spirit
20 gloves

105...damnit, gotta reroll my spirits i guess

[kuafu]

If you have open ring slot, wear one wisp projector (assuming you have one) with high lightning absorption. It really makes a difference against souls in baal runs.

[smokeydeadhead]

what about pit?

[Kupa]

I disagree with what you say about fire mastery. It should be added in such a way that the damage is maximum (which depends on the amount of _skills you have). There is a guide on this in this forum. Using the same # of points, fireball damage is generally, proper split > all firebolt > all fire mastery.

With +18 some to all fire skills, 1 in fire mastery is enough for me.

In the past I usually went 1 to fire bolt, 1 to mastery, and just alternated (since at this point I was in the 90s). Still, once your fireball gets to like 7k damage increasing it anymore, especially for pvm play, seems rather extreme. Unless your a dueler, there is no need to max out your fire damage to such extremes =P

Wisp projectors will never heal you from the lightning from Wisps, being percentage based absorb. However it might help some, personally I would rather have maxed out light resistance, or simply the FCR to teleport past them.

Pits you could use nagels. Pits aren't to difficult, just be careful, and watch out for archer packs w/curse fanat extra strong/etc... other deadly mods =P

-Kupa

[Eilo Rytyj]

I would like to mention that, although the last 2 packs of minions aren't fire immune (err or is just lister's pack?) both have some serious fire resistance, in which Orb, even a low one, works better then Meteor/Fireball.


Ventar isn't always Fire Immune, nor is his pack. But they are all very resistant to Fire.

There's a very good solution to Lister and his buddies. It's called Glacial Spike. It's a 1 point prerequisite to Frozen Orb, and it completely freezes Lister's buddies in place while Orb chips away at them. It keeps your merc alive, and it prevents them from eating you as well. Once his pack is down, Lister can be finished off with Orb, or if CI, just TK and your merc.

And yes, my 530-554 damage Orb @ -85% Cold Resist (from 1 point CM) makes short work of them easily. My remake Meteorb will have an Anni and (hopefully) a second SoJ, so I can expect it to be even easier than it already is.

[AnimeCraze]

With +18 some to all fire skills, 1 in fire mastery is enough for me.

In the past I usually went 1 to fire bolt, 1 to mastery, and just alternated (since at this point I was in the 90s). Still, once your fireball gets to like 7k damage increasing it anymore, especially for pvm play, seems rather extreme. Unless your a dueler, there is no need to max out your fire damage to such extremes =PTrue, there is no need, but why not do it if it takes like 10 seconds, and doesn't cost you any extra equipments?

[Pooshy]

i effed up and accidently put 2 points total in blizzard (damn lag) this worth a remake?

And- since i'm only mfing, it would be alright to put points into STR right? I figure I'll need to to wear the tal armor, I've got my hands on a cta (only 3 bo but meh) so i shouldn't be too bad on life. And I'll be using a prayer merc+insight to go along with it.

This sound okay? BTw Meteorb (maxed orb now, working on fire tree - fireball then meteor then firebolt)

[Eilo Rytyj]

i effed up and accidently put 2 points total in blizzard (damn lag) this worth a remake?

And- since i'm only mfing, it would be alright to put points into STR right? I figure I'll need to to wear the tal armor, I've got my hands on a cta (only 3 bo but meh) so i shouldn't be too bad on life. And I'll be using a prayer merc+insight to go along with it.

This sound okay? BTw Meteorb (maxed orb now, working on fire tree - fireball then meteor then firebolt)

Naw, don't worry too much about that 2 points in Blizz. It's not going to wreck your character much at all.

I'm a perfectionist though, I'm working on making my Meteorb absolutely perfect, or at least very close. I'm trying to get a 10k+ Fire Ball, 22k+ Meteor, and 600 damage Frozen Orb, with slvl 17 Cold Mastery with no actual points in it. So yeah, mine will be Fire mainly, with a decent Orb backup. Orb is fine at 400 damage for MFing in Hell, so this will be... crazy.

You probably want 156 strength to use a Spirit shield. A Torch and Anni give up to 40 str, so that's as low as 116 str your base strength can be. If you have a nice +stat rare ring, then that's even lower. A 3BO CTA is pretty good, mine's only a 1BO and I have 2250 life, and it can be higher.

Skill progression sound about right to me. Some good levelling items are Spirit Sword, Oculus, "Lore" Helm, Skin of Vipermagi, Lidless Wall, Magefists, and +1 Sorc skill Ammys are available at level 27.

[Kupa]

SKip on the prayer/insight, grab a Holy Freezer. Prayer/insight is awesome for leveling up through nightmare/normal, but becomes a pain to keep them alive in Hell.

-Kupa

[Eilo Rytyj]

SKip on the prayer/insight, grab a Holy Freezer. Prayer/insight is awesome for leveling up through nightmare/normal, but becomes a pain to keep them alive in Hell.

-Kupa

Nonsense. My merc never dies, only to IM. A Holy Freeze merc has an equal chance to die as any other merc. Both will be struck down by Meph in the same time. The trick is using skillful tactics to keep your merc alive.

Insight/Prayer is there as sort of a "regen totem", and the Prayer gets increasingly bigger regen as your merc reaches higher levels. Add to that every +1 skills on his equipment equate to 2 levels of Prayer, and it's not so bad. That's right, give your merc a CoH and Andy's Visage, and cast Battle Command on him, and it's like +10 levels of Prayer.

Insight/Prayer is one of the best merc combos in the game, it's a shame you turn it down so blindly.

[Kupa]

Nonsense. My merc never dies, only to IM. A Holy Freeze merc has an equal chance to die as any other merc. Both will be struck down by Meph in the same time. The trick is using skillful tactics to keep your merc alive.

Insight/Prayer is there as sort of a "regen totem", and the Prayer gets increasingly bigger regen as your merc reaches higher levels. Add to that every +1 skills on his equipment equate to 2 levels of Prayer, and it's not so bad. That's right, give your merc a CoH and Andy's Visage, and cast Battle Command on him, and it's like +10 levels of Prayer.

Insight/Prayer is one of the best merc combos in the game, it's a shame you turn it down so blindly.

I've got a high level prayer/insight (17 med even) combo on my hammerdin, but without the defense boost from defiance, or the freezing effect from HF, he dies (or at least causes me to baby him) much more often then any other mercenary I use -- and I use mercs on EVERYTHING =P

I also consider insight more of a hindrance later on. The mana regen is so ridiculously intoxicating, that it makes me hesitate to switch to other more powerful combos, mercs, or whatever.

A mercenary will not tank Mephisto until you cast Life Tap on him. Even a Prayer/Insight merc will work for an extra few seconds, but often I also run into problems in long games where Insight will stop working (ie: the meditation like, stops -- without the mercenary dieing -- it is really quite annoying).

I love the combo. But there are better choices to turn your mercenary into a tank later on ;)

And don't me wrong either, I've had uber amounts of fun with an Insight/Prayer combo on an ES-Based sorc I had awhile back. Just for normal PVM play, defiance, or better, HF based mercs will survive a lot better.

Then again, once you hit 88+ any merc you get will survive pretty well =P

-Kupa