Kicksin viable in hell?

[el leeto]

Im sure the answer to the topic question is yes, but i dont understand how. None of the kicking skills are synergies or listed as so at least. I just dont see how a build based off of unsynergized attacks could do enough damage to be useful could someone explain please. I also dont understand why a kicksin invests a point into almost every skill available except a few. I started one recently and am at level 21 now and have unlocked all skills that this guide recommends for a pure kicksin http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=405240. Should I keep saving points until 30 or should I start pumping a skill. I want to start doing some real damage im sick of being sidelined lol. Anyhow id appreciate it if anyone could lend me some insight as to why this build is effective and what skills I should start pumping first.

[stephan]

Fast attacks + crushing blow is what makes Dragon Talon so powerful. Once you have one enemy down, the corpse explosion from Death Sentry is going to help you a lot. Finally, with Cloak of Shadows you make sure that nothing can see you (except bosses, which are a good target for Dragon Talon anyway) and therefor hit you. The only 'problem' with this build is that in the beginning it doesn't seem to be that good, due to a lack of attack speed and items that give you crushing blow.

Since the base Dragon Talon build requires few skillpoints you can customize it with good venom or trap damage quite easily.

[Silent Shaddow]

seconded, its the CB and fast attack speed that make this powerful, not the damage,
alot you can use a bigger variatity of weapons becuase the weapon dmg doesnt matter, fleshripper is a very good common chioce iirc

[el leeto]

Thanks for the replies. What should i start pumping first though Dragon talon? Or should i save pts for the lvl 30 skills?

[wizAdept]

Thanks for the replies. What should i start pumping first though Dragon talon? Or should i save pts for the lvl 30 skills?

I would recommend placing 1 point in every skill you are going to have by your endbuild first, to unlock all the 1 point wonders.
Get enough dtalon for 3 kick bursts, then save skill points to max death sentry levels 30-49. If you are planning on an LS/kick hybrid build, put points in LS, have 1 point in all the other skills, and don't spend more points in kick since you want to dedicate as many skill points as possible towards synergies. For a pure kicksin build without LS support, you should still have maxed Death Sentry asap. When you have spare skill points place them in shadowmaster until you get a beefy slvl 17+ master. Afterwards you can place points in venom or more dtalon (if you want more kicks), don't worry about that in low-mid levels.

Make sure to unlock all your 1 point wonder skills asap. Also having 2+ points in mindblast is recommended.

[el leeto]

Im not sure what LS is. Im making a pure kicksin but the guide recommended death sentry for basically every variation of a kicksin so ill do what you said an pump that first after i unlock everything. In the meantime I guess ill have to make a sorc or something for mf.

[deadbeater]

LS=Lightning sentry, used vs immune to physicals.

If you are a good enough kickasin, you don't need to max Death Sentry, not immediately at first. At higher levels, you don't need to even use a set-up move, such as Tiger Strike. Remember, open wounds(Edge/Dracul's), amplify damage (Atma's scarab/Lacerator) and crushing blow(Guillaume's Face) are key. I'm looking for Fleshripper; but meanwhile, any of the one-hand elite axes (Razor's Edge, Lacerator) will do as main weapon. Be sure to pre-buff with dual Bartucs or 2-skill rare claws first.

As for me, I maxed my Shadow Master first, after maxing Talon and Venom. The max-level Shadow can cast a level 18 Death Sentry before you can get around to do it, I believe.

If you are worried about kicking *** from level one, or 21, use a Gnasher (level 2 hand axe), or, my favorite, Rixot's Keen (level 3 short sword).

[el leeto]

LS=Lightning sentry, used vs immune to physicals.

If you are a good enough kickasin, you don't need to max Death Sentry, not immediately at first. At higher levels, you don't need to even use a set-up move, such as Tiger Strike. Remember, open wounds(Edge/Dracul's), amplify damage (Atma's scarab/Lacerator) and crushing blow(Guillaume's Face) are key. I'm looking for Fleshripper; but meanwhile, any of the one-hand elite axes (Razor's Edge, Lacerator) will do as main weapon. Be sure to pre-buff with dual Bartucs or 2-skill rare claws first.

As for me, I maxed my Shadow Master first, after maxing Talon and Venom. The max-level Shadow can cast a level 18 Death Sentry before you can get around to do it, I believe.

If you are worried about kicking *** from level one, or 21, use a Gnasher (level 2 hand axe), or, my favorite, Rixot's Keen (level 3 short sword).

I would assume you were talking about those axes because of crushing blow. Funny thing is I had one loled it, sold it quick. I didnt realize how dependent this build is on items. It seems I need some sort of crushing blow item my ability to kill things right now is like null. Normally I make a sorc first to mf , but id rather play w/o mfing for my kicksin at least for a little while.

So yah if you have any starter equip you dont need lemme know lol. So you maxed talon and venom first it seems? Is there really any pt in putting pts into talon before i have venom or shadow master or a crushing blow item.

[zwu]

Hehehe well well.

I personally recommend 1 / max DTail as it deals a reasonable amount of damage and knocks back crowds.
After knocking back the crowds, you can mindblas them to keep them in position and then kick them down. The damage i would disagree to be quite powerful indeed as a good kicksin can have around 1.5k avg kick damage, and with 5 or 6 kicks, it's quite reasonable (well, it does kill things in hell) but then again, you need a good venom for a good "pure kicksin" and by "pure" I don't refer to the one that the particular guide outlines.

Again, I am personally not a big fan of traps but I find 1 point in DS (Death Sentry) very useful if you want to take down crowds. Then again, you could use WW (although many of you would disagree) as a PvM skill to deal venom to the crowd, provided that they're stunned form Mindblast already.

Anyway I wrote a pure Kicksin guide but GameFAQs is being slow... I don't know if this community might want it...

[deadbeater]

We want it, if only for you to provide some insights we may have overlooked on our builds.

I'm not saying your likelihood to kill is null without the items mentioned. The thing is we assassins want to kill things quickly, especially vs physical immunes. The crushing blow. etc. help us in that regard.

[zwu]

Doesn't matter, I just read the Monk-Warrior guide and found that mine was basically quite a similar build except my guide is meant to be like one of those that explain to begginners how to play it etc. etc.

PIs? Venom right? And Fire damage from Death Sentry (1 point). I personally find handling masses of PIs (e.g. the place where you find uber duriel - i was swarmed with a full screen of PIs - the swarm things because I wanted to finish duriel off quickly but tagged on heaps of enemies)

[Hymn]

Doesn't matter, I just read the Monk-Warrior guide and found that mine was basically quite a similar build except my guide is meant to be like one of those that explain to begginners how to play it etc. etc.

PIs? Venom right? And Fire damage from Death Sentry (1 point). I personally find handling masses of PIs (e.g. the place where you find uber duriel - i was swarmed with a full screen of PIs - the swarm things because I wanted to finish duriel off quickly but tagged on heaps of enemies)

PIs are easily dispatched by equip elemental damage, if you do have it. Also, if you have Static Field, it hits everything in a generally large area.

[zwu]

PIs are easily dispatched by equip elemental damage, if you do have it. Also, if you have Static Field, it hits everything in a generally large area.

Cresent Moon is one of the many good choices for the Kicksin but I prefer Last Wish or Beast.
+I usually can't get enough elemental damage from equipment to kill fast

sorry - cresent moon used on switch

[mephiztophelez]

just to throw it in (all comments are PvM in nature):

1: Gimmershred on any 'talon useing 'sin can get you through Hell.
2: Stormlash is probably the Greatest Kick Weapon EVARRRR
3: d-sentry is your friend and main killing skill. while it is certainly possible to use this as a one-point wonder, i see no reason not to max it on pretty much any PvM built 'sin. for a straight kicker, your not particularly strapped for skill points, so i say just max it and reap the rewards.

[Silent Shaddow]

there is not 'greatest' kicksin weapon... tell me? can you block fireballs etc with that weapon?

at OP, there is no best, but common favourites are things like Black rw fail,
flesh ripper, strength flail, etc, look for CB, OW, Elemental damage
but possibly the most useful of the cheap weapons imo is lawbringer... this imply awesome weapon, knocks back and provides etc thro its aura, decrefiplys for easy kills + boosted CE dmg from Deathsentry, has a nice lump of cold and magic dmg. however this weapon also has 'slain monsters rest in peace' which means that any kicked enemies cant be exploded by CE, annoying but managable (you have to kick the rest of the pack as well, unless you have maxed LS)

remember, you kick dmg doesnt depend on weapon dmg! so ignore it!

[el leeto]

Thanks for the help everyone. I guess I have a basic idea of how I should be allocating skill pts now. I think ill definitely put 1 in venom and 1 in death sentry before I continue putting any in dtalon currently 2. I can see that dtalon alone at low levels is not going to kill lots of monsters for me. Now crushing blow seems to be a big deal (it comes from the weapon your holding correct me if im wrong). So should I try to get a crushing blow wep asap? Also would you recommend pumping pts into venom / death sentry before I max dtalon or just the initial unlock then pts in dtalon/shadow master or something before I max them?

[deadbeater]

Crushing blow can come from your other gear as well. Besides the great low level items I mentioned before, concentrate mainly on acquiring Guillaume's Face around level 35. The cheapo weapon with crushing blow and Guillaumes together with Gore Rider should get you through nightmare, or until you get up to level for your endgame weapon. Guillaume's is of course the endgame helm.

As for allocating levels when, do what is comfortable for you to survive. If you feel like being Bruce Lee in Enter the Dragon, go for venom. if you want to be more ninja-like, concentrate on Death Sentry and optionally your Shadow Master.