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thorsa
24-01-2007, 11:17
how much strenth would you say on a bh swordback ww BVB 250 or 300

Akukami
24-01-2007, 16:33
how much strenth would you say on a bh swordback ww BVB 250 or 300

Depends on the damage of your BHammer.

- Akukami

magnet
24-01-2007, 20:45
get a 17x bh and try with 40 strength.

Mikk0
24-01-2007, 20:55
get a 17x bh and try with 40 strength.

kind of an OT here but..

isnt bvb all dmg, who cares about life? :grin:

just to show my noobnes i havent done melee char since 1.09 (xept my mf baba at the moment)..

forumfreak
25-01-2007, 01:23
get a 17x bh and try with 40 strength.

bhammers require 100 str

Akukami
25-01-2007, 04:00
kind of an OT here but..

isnt bvb all dmg, who cares about life? :grin:

Hehe, I've actually taken that attitude with a new Barb I've been trying to get gear for. I'm now just missing the Helm and the Weapon, and with all of the dupes flying around, it's hard to find non-poofer items. :sad2:

- Akukami

zaxien
25-01-2007, 06:32
pure str bvb ftw

2k 1 handed ww damage yay

Fists of War
25-01-2007, 07:03
Just to clarify here, BvB does not always have to be WW does it? what about a pure concentrate barb for insane defence, or a pure beserk barb? and is a BvC stand for barb vs caster? Sorry for the semi-OT questions but I gotta learn somewhere. :P

-fow

WarlockCC
25-01-2007, 09:54
Just to clarify here, BvB does not always have to be WW does it? what about a pure concentrate barb for insane defence, or a pure beserk barb? and is a BvC stand for barb vs caster? Sorry for the semi-OT questions but I gotta learn somewhere. :P

-fow
Interesting, never actually looked at Concentrate.
I sense a project coming up :

Concentrate
Mana cost: 2
Attack Rating: +250%
Damage: +465%
Defense: +290%
Convert to magic damage: 0%
[Synergy] Bash: +100% Damage (5% / Lvl)
[Synergy] Battle Orders: +200% Damage (10% / Lvl)
[Synergy] Berserk: +0% to converted magic damage (1% / Lvl)

Bash
Mana cost: 2
Attack Rating: +215%
Damage: +150%
Damage: +20
[Synergy] Concentrate: +100% Attack Rating (5% / Lvl)
[Synergy] Stun: +5% Damage (5% / Lvl)

Iron Skin
Defense: +220%

Shout
Mana cost: 6
Duration: 315 Seconds
Defense: +290%
[Synergy] Battle Orders: +100 Seconds (5 / Lvl)
[Synergy] Battle Command: +5 Seconds (5 / Lvl)

Battle Orders
Mana cost: 7
Duration: 325 Seconds
Stamina/life/mana: +92%
[Synergy] Shout: +100 Seconds (5 / Lvl)
[Synergy] Battle Command: +5 Seconds (5 / Lvl)

Battle Command
Mana cost: 11
Duration: 205 Seconds
to all skills: +1
[Synergy] Shout: +100 Seconds (5 / Lvl)
[Synergy] Battle Orders: +100 Seconds (5 / Lvl)

With 40 ias on my 138 battle hammer and 10 from some high defense gloves, I get the 50ias breakpoint, so I'd be down to 13 frames per attack.
Or, if I wear sigons and sig belt, I would have the 70ias breakpoint and that wouldn't even cost me much defense, since the belt has that +2 def/level mod. And that grim helm I recently found will add a good bit of defense as well.

There are bound to have been others who tried this, does it work in either pvm or pvp ?
I'm still going to build one, regardless if it works or not, just wondering what other people's experience with this is.

Akukami
25-01-2007, 13:18
pure str bvb ftw

2k 1 handed ww damage yay

Yeah, you should make that Barb of yours now instead of screwing around on XPac. :grin:

- Akukami

thorsa
25-01-2007, 14:00
OK Guys what are we saying here all str or enough strenth 4 gear and rest vit?

Akukami
25-01-2007, 15:01
Like I said, it depends on your gear, so perhaps posting it would be a good idea. :grin:

- Akukami

thorsa
25-01-2007, 15:17
Like I said, it depends on your gear, so perhaps posting it would be a good idea. :grin:

- Akukami


Hi Akukami

i have not aquired a good bh yet but have full cleglaw set so i am going to go with that for this build but str at 55 to use gear does not seem like it will do a lot of dmg, but only putting 55 str i can have high vit.

So what would the recommended str be for this build to be viable in bvb

thanks

zaxien
25-01-2007, 19:39
give me a week or so and i will post stats/skills/damage/life etc on my mostly pure str barb im gonna make. He ought to be quite fun

Rawly
25-01-2007, 19:57
Hi Akukami

i have not aquired a good bh yet but have full cleglaw set so i am going to go with that for this build but str at 55 to use gear does not seem like it will do a lot of dmg, but only putting 55 str i can have high vit.

So what would the recommended str be for this build to be viable in bvb

thanks

one of the reasons for going with clegs is to go base str/dex use twitch swordback and goblintoes if you get to nice lv 85+ you will do lots of bleed damage so the weapon doesnt have to be spectacular. This build is way cheap and will beat alot of more expensive builds just because of the high block and good bleed/crushing blow damage. Obviously you will need angelics for ar. Gloves and helm not that important, could go for bloodfists for fhr and more life. belt can be deaths sash for cant be frozen although not that important for bvb. Helm something like a 3 p ruby socket death mask.

Locke07
25-01-2007, 22:31
Hi Akukami

i have not aquired a good bh yet but have full cleglaw set so i am going to go with that for this build but str at 55 to use gear does not seem like it will do a lot of dmg, but only putting 55 str i can have high vit.

So what would the recommended str be for this build to be viable in bvb

thanks

Go 300 strength on a Clegs barb, use twitch sword back.

@rawly- You can't use bloodfist because you are using clegs gloves. Helmet should be Bonnet which adds more ed, and belt should not prevent cold dmg because being frozen adds more hits during ww, instead aim for fire dmg, strength and life!

fledgeling
25-01-2007, 22:45
what is so good about clegs sword then?
I thought you'd use the shield for 35% crushing blow

a high damage BH wouldnt be better?

Fifty Squirrels
25-01-2007, 22:48
Damage based on level

30% bonus to attack rating
50% chance Deadly Strike

Akukami
25-01-2007, 23:07
Go 300 strength on a Clegs barb, use twitch sword back.

@rawly- You can't use bloodfist because you are using clegs gloves. Helmet should be Bonnet which adds more ed, and belt should not prevent cold dmg because being frozen adds more hits during ww, instead aim for fire dmg, strength and life!

You're going to get crushed by a well-built old-school BvB using a high damage BHam + Orn + Grim Shield if you go that route. I'm not saying the 300 Str idea is bad, but it won't really work with Clegs. Also, a 3 Socket PAmeth Helm adds more damage than Biggins.

For the added Str route, go 170 Str so you have the option of wearing an Orn later on.

If you want to go the Pure Vita route, find a 15+ Str Belt with base Str req below 30. For BOing, you're going to be using Berserker's, so find a BO amulet with 1-6+ Str.

- Akukami

Locke07
26-01-2007, 03:19
You're going to get crushed by a well-built old-school BvB using a high damage BHam + Orn + Grim Shield if you go that route. I'm not saying the 300 Str idea is bad, but it won't really work with Clegs. Also, a 3 Socket PAmeth Helm adds more damage than Biggins.

For the added Str route, go 170 Str so you have the option of wearing an Orn later on.

If you want to go the Pure Vita route, find a 15+ Str Belt with base Str req below 30. For BOing, you're going to be using Berserker's, so find a BO amulet with 1-6+ Str.

- Akukami

IMO if you are going to use clegs be prepared to lose... you probably will lose a lot, but I have found that and I believe Fredsta agrees with me that going max strength will net you the best results from clegs... and I never thought about the 3 ammy helm

Akukami
26-01-2007, 04:44
IMO if you are going to use clegs be prepared to lose... you probably will lose a lot, but I have found that and I believe Fredsta agrees with me that going max strength will net you the best results from clegs... and I never thought about the 3 ammy helm

Nah, Cleggers just don't cut it at all. They're more for fun than real BvBing just to show up some noob Twitch-SBack-BHam BvBs. Max Str on a Clegger will net you huge damage pool, but you're also open to 1 WW deaths from other high Str Barbs with a range 3 weapon.

- Akukami

Locke07
26-01-2007, 04:50
Nah, Cleggers just don't cut it at all. They're more for fun than real BvBing just to show up some noob Twitch-SBack-BHam BvBs. Max Str on a Clegger will net you huge damage pool, but you're also open to 1 WW deaths from other high Str Barbs with a range 3 weapon.

- Akukami

I am in the process of tooling a blank stat ancient axe barb I have. He has used no stats, and I planned on using a naga, and going high strength plus high defence? I have most of the stuff I think? What do you think of nagas over BH's? FOr a high strength defence baba?

Fifty Squirrels
26-01-2007, 06:59
IMO if you are going to use clegs be prepared to lose... you probably will lose a lot, but I have found that and I believe Fredsta agrees with me that going max strength will net you the best results from clegs... and I never thought about the 3 ammy helm

You can use sig gloves and helm for AR if you like too. Adds 10 str and attack based on level, and I think 100 defense.

thorsa
26-01-2007, 10:52
ok guys thanks 4 input will experiment with 2 builds all str and all vit

thanks again

Akukami
26-01-2007, 14:44
You can use sig gloves and helm for AR if you like too. Adds 10 str and attack based on level, and I think 100 defense.

You'll get an AR boots, but your life will plummet significantly. Honestly, stay away from Sigs if you can.

- Akukami

Akukami
26-01-2007, 14:47
What do you think of nagas over BH's?

Double posting, but I just read this. :grin:

It really comes down to who's better at BvB. However, generally, a Naga BvB can easily take down a BH BvB due to the high range on the Naga.

- Akukami

magnet
26-01-2007, 18:39
bhammers require 100 str

ummm yea...thats 40 strength naked.:rolleyes:

you get the rest of you 100 req from 3 p ame helm, twitch and a 20str belt. so you're only investing 10 points into strength...or if you can find a -req bh...you can go with the base 30 str and add zero strength. but you need a big hammer to compensate for your low strength, or this doesnt work.

vitality bvbs own ladder. dont bother with strength.

Akukami
26-01-2007, 20:32
ummm yea...thats 40 strength naked.:rolleyes:

you get the rest of you 100 req from 3 p ame helm, twitch and a 20str belt. so you're only investing 10 points into strength...or if you can find a -req bh...you can go with the base 30 str and add zero strength. but you need a big hammer to compensate for your low strength, or this doesnt work.

vitality bvbs own ladder. dont bother with strength.

Not at all, and here's why I say that.

I was MFing in a BvB game with my Level 76 250 Str Maul MFer, and I happened to be keeping tabs on who was winning the most. After taking my goodies from Stormtree, I ventured back to Act 1 to see Level several 8x Barbs with varients of the Twitch-SBack BvB and what looked to be high damage BHammers (and 1 Clegger!) I decided to have some fun, and I transferred over my BvB/A gear that I was saving:

Helm: 252 Def 5% AR Bonus 6 Life Grim Helm
Weapon: 120 Dmg 13x AR Naga
Shield: 28x 30/20 5 Str 6 Rep Life 38 Priz Grim Shield
Armor: Rattlecage
Gloves: 9x Def 9 Str 2x CR/LR War Gauntlets
Boots: Goblin Toe
Belt: 10 FHR 8x Def 16 Str 3x Life 1x CR 2x FR War Belt
Rings: Angelic Halo x 2
Amulet: Angelic Wings

With this gear, I managed 280 Str, about 2700 Life from a Level 26 BO, 570ish Max Dmg, and about 3.9k AR. My first duel was against an 81 T-S BvB using Sigs and a 157 BHam: it was over in 3 WWs, and I ended up with a little more than half of my life left. Did I range him? On my last WW, yes.

My second duel was a 79 T-S BvB who was using a 3-Socket PRuby Grand Crown, Bloodfist, and a 161 BHam. The first WW cut me down to a little over half life, so I ended up ranging him, and 5 WW later, he went splat, and I ended with about 100 Life left and bleeding.

The third duel was probably the most interesting: an 83 T-S BvB using a nice Grim Helm, 1-3 Cold Dmg 19 Str 59 life Light Belt, Bloodfist, and a sweet PAmeth Socked 164 3xx AR Psn Dmg BHam. The first duel ended up as a tie, and I figured he was well aware of the Naga's ranging ability. On the second round, we both carefully aimed WWs, and I caught him several times by ranging, but it took 1 straight WW to take him down while staying at 20 life to get the win. My idea is that he probably would've won had it not been for the Cold Dmg on his Belt; my slower WW resulted in a lot more hits, and I think even he was surprised by that.

Keep in mind that I was at a lower Level than all of these so-called BvBs, and that I was using an Axe instead of a Mace to duel. Just something for you to think about while claiming that Pure Vita BvBs own Ladder. :thumbsup:

- Akukami

deichsela
27-01-2007, 00:31
Also, a 3 Socket PAmeth Helm adds more damage than Biggins.
I'm not sure (http://battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/characters.shtml) about that.


For Thrown and Melee Weapons:
Final_Damage = Weapon_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100

Total Damage:
Dmg = (Weapon Dmg + (+x To Max Dmg)) * (1 + StatsBonus + (+x% Enhanced Damage) / 100) * Modifier


? +30% == +30 str

Fists of War
27-01-2007, 00:52
Interesting, never actually looked at Concentrate.
I sense a project coming up :

Concentrate
Mana cost: 2
Attack Rating: +250%
Damage: +465%
Defense: +290%
Convert to magic damage: 0%
[Synergy] Bash: +100% Damage (5% / Lvl)
[Synergy] Battle Orders: +200% Damage (10% / Lvl)
[Synergy] Berserk: +0% to converted magic damage (1% / Lvl)

Bash
Mana cost: 2
Attack Rating: +215%
Damage: +150%
Damage: +20
[Synergy] Concentrate: +100% Attack Rating (5% / Lvl)
[Synergy] Stun: +5% Damage (5% / Lvl)

Iron Skin
Defense: +220%

Shout
Mana cost: 6
Duration: 315 Seconds
Defense: +290%
[Synergy] Battle Orders: +100 Seconds (5 / Lvl)
[Synergy] Battle Command: +5 Seconds (5 / Lvl)

Battle Orders
Mana cost: 7
Duration: 325 Seconds
Stamina/life/mana: +92%
[Synergy] Shout: +100 Seconds (5 / Lvl)
[Synergy] Battle Command: +5 Seconds (5 / Lvl)

Battle Command
Mana cost: 11
Duration: 205 Seconds
to all skills: +1
[Synergy] Shout: +100 Seconds (5 / Lvl)
[Synergy] Battle Orders: +100 Seconds (5 / Lvl)

With 40 ias on my 138 battle hammer and 10 from some high defense gloves, I get the 50ias breakpoint, so I'd be down to 13 frames per attack.
Or, if I wear sigons and sig belt, I would have the 70ias breakpoint and that wouldn't even cost me much defense, since the belt has that +2 def/level mod. And that grim helm I recently found will add a good bit of defense as well.

There are bound to have been others who tried this, does it work in either pvm or pvp ?
I'm still going to build one, regardless if it works or not, just wondering what other people's experience with this is.

Okay, I recommend looking at Halciet's Conc barb guide in the strategy compendium. It's for LoD but as I said when I told you 'bout the cleric guide it'll be very usefull for you. But a ww barb will most likely be better in PvP, but the conc barb owns in PvP.

Akukami
27-01-2007, 01:55
I'm not sure (http://battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/characters.shtml) about that.


For Thrown and Melee Weapons:
Final_Damage = Weapon_Damage * (Str + 100) / 100

Total Damage:
Dmg = (Weapon Dmg + (+x To Max Dmg)) * (1 + StatsBonus + (+x% Enhanced Damage) / 100) * Modifier


? +30% == +30 str

In theory, this would be correct, but test it out in game for yourself! You'll see a significant difference. :grin:

- Akukami

Zodijackyl
27-01-2007, 04:24
Double posting, but I just read this. :grin:

It really comes down to who's better at BvB. However, generally, a Naga BvB can easily take down a BH BvB due to the high range on the Naga.

- Akukami

Never had a naga barb take my BH barb down, never had one take my exec barb down. Using the range to your advantage might work against a really bad dueler, but any decent BvB knows how to beat you, and consider your 120 naga vs. my 180 BH. The BH has about 60 more min and max damage, over 50% extra to the max and even more to the min dmg (unless it's a very high min naga vs my decent min dmg bh right now, but you're still lacking a lot of damage). Also consider every single barb who tries to range me BvB ends up getting caught out of WW. Ranging is extremely overrated, and there are hardly any good range 3 BvB weapons around this lad, and duped execs are just lame.

As for the swordback barb... don't bother, swordback is lame and it sucks.

Akukami
27-01-2007, 06:36
Never had a naga barb take my BH barb down, never had one take my exec barb down. Using the range to your advantage might work against a really bad dueler, but any decent BvB knows how to beat you, and consider your 120 naga vs. my 180 BH. The BH has about 60 more min and max damage, over 50% extra to the max and even more to the min dmg (unless it's a very high min naga vs my decent min dmg bh right now, but you're still lacking a lot of damage). Also consider every single barb who tries to range me BvB ends up getting caught out of WW. Ranging is extremely overrated, and there are hardly any good range 3 BvB weapons around this lad, and duped execs are just lame.

As for the swordback barb... don't bother, swordback is lame and it sucks.

Right, and how many "decent" BvBs are out there on Ladder at the moment? I can only think of 6, you included, and the rest just hit and run with SBack. :scratch:

- Akukami

magnet
27-01-2007, 16:44
Not at all, and here's why I say that.

I was MFing in a BvB game with my Level 76 250 Str Maul MFer, and I happened to be keeping tabs on who was winning the most. After taking my goodies from Stormtree, I ventured back to Act 1 to see Level several 8x Barbs with varients of the Twitch-SBack BvB and what looked to be high damage BHammers (and 1 Clegger!) I decided to have some fun, and I transferred over my BvB/A gear that I was saving:

Helm: 252 Def 5% AR Bonus 6 Life Grim Helm
Weapon: 120 Dmg 13x AR Naga
Shield: 28x 30/20 5 Str 6 Rep Life 38 Priz Grim Shield
Armor: Rattlecage
Gloves: 9x Def 9 Str 2x CR/LR War Gauntlets
Boots: Goblin Toe
Belt: 10 FHR 8x Def 16 Str 3x Life 1x CR 2x FR War Belt
Rings: Angelic Halo x 2
Amulet: Angelic Wings

With this gear, I managed 280 Str, about 2700 Life from a Level 26 BO, 570ish Max Dmg, and about 3.9k AR. My first duel was against an 81 T-S BvB using Sigs and a 157 BHam: it was over in 3 WWs, and I ended up with a little more than half of my life left. Did I range him? On my last WW, yes.

My second duel was a 79 T-S BvB who was using a 3-Socket PRuby Grand Crown, Bloodfist, and a 161 BHam. The first WW cut me down to a little over half life, so I ended up ranging him, and 5 WW later, he went splat, and I ended with about 100 Life left and bleeding.

The third duel was probably the most interesting: an 83 T-S BvB using a nice Grim Helm, 1-3 Cold Dmg 19 Str 59 life Light Belt, Bloodfist, and a sweet PAmeth Socked 164 3xx AR Psn Dmg BHam. The first duel ended up as a tie, and I figured he was well aware of the Naga's ranging ability. On the second round, we both carefully aimed WWs, and I caught him several times by ranging, but it took 1 straight WW to take him down while staying at 20 life to get the win. My idea is that he probably would've won had it not been for the Cold Dmg on his Belt; my slower WW resulted in a lot more hits, and I think even he was surprised by that.

Keep in mind that I was at a lower Level than all of these so-called BvBs, and that I was using an Axe instead of a Mace to duel. Just something for you to think about while claiming that Pure Vita BvBs own Ladder. :thumbsup:

- Akukami

I've had the best bvb on west ladder for the past 3+ years, using a variation on a vita build, with maces and the "newbie" twitch/sback ladder ghetto setup. thats where i'm coming from. just something for you to think about. :thumbsup:

my bvb's name is OakenEye, and any of you who have bvb'd much on west ladder in the past few years can confirm this boast of mine is in all actuality--a Fact.

I welcome all challenges, from anyone. Legit, manner to 5.

thanks,
:grin:


/w *banned.edu
/w *antii-remix

weep
28-01-2007, 00:23
Never had a naga barb take my BH barb down, never had one take my exec barb down. Using the range to your advantage might work against a really bad dueler, but any decent BvB knows how to beat you, and consider your 120 naga vs. my 180 BH. The BH has about 60 more min and max damage, over 50% extra to the max and even more to the min dmg (unless it's a very high min naga vs my decent min dmg bh right now, but you're still lacking a lot of damage). Also consider every single barb who tries to range me BvB ends up getting caught out of WW. Ranging is extremely overrated, and there are hardly any good range 3 BvB weapons around this lad, and duped execs are just lame.

As for the swordback barb... don't bother, swordback is lame and it sucks.

any decent bvb will not lose to a range 1 vs range 3.

fledgeling
28-01-2007, 05:08
sigon shield gives 74% block?
while grim 60%???

grim gives you 280defense
while sigons shield 60??

even when you multiply the defense with shout, isnt a sigons shield better?


has anyone ever actually calculated the chances of being hit with these two equipment options?

zrk
28-01-2007, 08:33
sigon shield gives 74% block?
while grim 60%???

grim gives you 280defense
while sigons shield 60??

even when you multiply the defense with shout, isnt a sigons shield better?


has anyone ever actually calculated the chances of being hit with these two equipment options?

For a barb, sigons gives 69% to block, grim shield gives 65%, pavise also 69%. So theres no way sigons is the best choice for a def bvb.

Zodijackyl
30-01-2007, 06:51
any decent bvb will not lose to a range 1 vs range 3.

Try me East ladder, plenty say that and not a single one comes close to killing me.

zaxien
30-01-2007, 15:04
Try me East ladder, plenty say that and not a single one comes close to killing me.

I will get ya soon enough!
My naga vs Your Bhammer :jig:

Zodijackyl
30-01-2007, 21:03
I will get ya soon enough!
My naga vs Your Bhammer :jig:

Start leveling it now, then let me know when you're ready!

Also you might want to check out my old NL barb AncientSkin, high def/str Axer on NL.

Akukami
30-01-2007, 22:58
Start leveling it now, then let me know when you're ready!

Also you might want to check out my old NL barb AncientSkin, high def/str Axer on NL.

Yes, he needs to bum a rush off me. :rolleyes:

Then again, that would give me the opportunity to remake my own Barb. :grin:

- Akukami

zaxien
31-01-2007, 00:00
Yes, he needs to bum a rush off me. :rolleyes:

Then again, that would give me the opportunity to remake my own Barb. :grin:

- Akukami

actually 4 rushes off you ;)
you just dont know it yet heh