View Full Version : why can't my sorc handle hell?
Ok i'm pretty upset with the situation i'm in @ the current moment.
b4 i started this char i did a bit of reading, but i guess i must have read the wrong things, because my sorc can barely play through hell with another char. Ok tell me what i'm doing wrong. I wanted to make a pvm sorc that could handle most situations in hel.
Setup:
__________________________________________________ _______________
lvl 85 Meteor orb
Full Tals Set (maybe this is the problem)
35 spirit
2 soj's
Frosturns
War travs
lvl 33 Meteor = 13k-14k dmg
lvl 33 Orb = 550-575 dmg
life: 1335
Mana: 1115
Act 2 merc, Eth Cryptic Doom Axe, shaftstop, Tal mask
skills:
maxed meteor, fireball and lvl 30 fire mastery
maxed orb, lvl 20 cold mastery... only 7 points initially invested
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i can't do baal properly, i tried doing a chaos run, that didn't go 2 well.
Can someone tell me wherei went wrong ? maybe i used the wrong class sorc.
damnit i'm an old 1.09 guy.. meteor orbs rocked then. i read a 1.10 guide i thought it'd be the same.. but i guess not :sad2:
help anyone?
-Ped
SmiterMcZealot
24-01-2007, 06:23
Full Tal's is definitely not the problem. On my SP Meteorb I'd desperately love to have Tal's, and it's what every Meteorb I've made for the past two years has used. It's numerically the best equip you can get for a Meteorb.
One thing: you aren't hitting the 105 FCR breakpoint. I'd switch the Frostburns for a magefist. More Meteor/fireball damage, hits the breakpoint.
Did you put points into firebolt for meteor/fireball synergy by the way? And are you using fireball between orb/meteor casts (you should be able to get 2 out)?
Once you hit the 105 FCR bp, you should have no troubles. If you do, you just need more practice.
If you're having mana problems, switch to using a holy freeze merc and Insight.
AnimeCraze
24-01-2007, 06:28
I really can't see anything wrong. Even with 63 FCR it should be enough. I reckon it's your playing style? A sorc is not a hammerdin, after all.
SmiterMcZealot
24-01-2007, 06:50
I really can't see anything wrong. Even with 63 FCR it should be enough. I reckon it's your playing style? A sorc is not a hammerdin, after all.
Yeah, 63 is enough for a skilled sorc easily, 105 can cover up for beginner mistakes though.
that and 105 is just plain sweet
My guess is not having a good merc or don't know how to use a merc. Don't use an Insight merc though, 1100 mana with enough +skill should mean no mana problem at all.
As for the particular two locations ou mentioned. Baal runs might go bad when 1) there're souls, your gears aren't very optimal for souls (you'll notice a significant difference if you switch one soj for a good wisp); 2) there're dolls, that's why you need a good merc. Other than that, baal runs should not be a problem. Chaos runs can go bad more easily because your merc won't survive, and the skellies are either fire immune or cold immune. Chaos is not a good place for meteorb in general.
These kind of posts I just do not understand...
"Help me!!11!one!! I have some of the best gear in the game for my character, but I still can't kill in Hell." [/few minor details follow]
"I read a guide, bought all of the best stuff on ebay, and I still can't kill in Hell...."
"Why can't I put anything in my sockets??!!!?"
If you have lvl 85 Full Tal's, Spirit (35 FCR, nice roll...), 2x SoJ, +13 skill, cookie cutter meteorb and still die in a 2 player Hell game, I really don't think the problem is not reaching the next bp.
Maybe try putting a few points into vitality? Getting max lightning resist, at least?
Or maybe you don't die, you just can't drop Baal in 30 sec like you thought. If that was really your question, I suppose I misinterpreted "[i] can barely play through hell." I apologize.
Might I suggest an Infinity Merc? Maybe with Fortitude and that Tal's helm for leech. I don't know, really, because you don't really say why "[I] can barely play through hell ."
Perhaps lowering your expectations?
Or perhaps, just perhaps, maybe a little practice?
Good luck,
DudSpud
edit: toned down
Why not post your stats and we can see how you worked with that? Your equipment is perfect for the build, and damage is optimal. I'm thinking it's a playstyle?
Eilo Rytyj
24-01-2007, 08:52
How is your Fire Ball damage? That's your main Fire spell as a Meteorb. Not Meteor as the name suggests.
You should max Fire Bolt instead of Fire Mastery first, then rest of points into Fire Mastery. Why? You get more Fire Ball damage that way. Work it out on a skill calc. My current Meteorb does 7.5k-8.2k FB damage with max Fire Mastery. I've worked out that I can do 8.5k+ damage by maxing Fire Bolt instead. I'm currently in the process of rebuilding to take advantage of this.
105% FCR is required to get the most damage out of Fire Ball. It's just that simple, speed kills. The difference between 63% and 105% FCR for FB killing speed is phenominal. Magefists>Frosties on everything other than a dedicated ES sorc. Which you're not.
You don't need a single point in Cold Mastery either. Not one. Tal's Orb GIVES you Cold Mastery for FREE. It can still be boosted to slvl 17 with +skills for that -100% res.
FO is a back-up skill, nothing more. Those 7 points could have gone to Fire Mastery/Bolt as a synergy, to increase Fire damage.
TBH, this build should have been called a "FireBallOrb", because that's just what it is. Fire Ball as main skill, Frozen Orb as a secondary skill, Meteor as tertiary group/boss-killer skill. You'll be surprised how much you DON'T use Meteor if you play this sorc properly. Fire Ball is simply much more effective 90% of the time.
It's just that FireBallOrb doesn't sound right...
Can't imagine using two timered spells as main killing skills :flip:
Definetely your playstyle. I've done Baal runs as soon as lvl 80 with half your gear. Takes more time but it's duable.
My guess?
DudSpud got it right.
KingOfBloodBath
24-01-2007, 22:17
I guess the problem is meterorb was overrated, everyone talking about how a cookie cut sorc it is, but in fact, it is quite difficult in 1.11 as meterorb lack of killing power in hell, especially in a mutiple players game. and because you can't kill fast enough, you put your merc in a danger position to be swarmed by monsters. so you have to constantly re-position him in order to keep him alive.
I would say meterorb is good for a single player game, but when it is more than 3 players in the game, it's getting hard to kill with your orb. however it still can sole most part of the hell if you have patient, but I would rather using a blizzard sorc, which is way faster in killing speed and easy to do boss runs.
I guess the problem is meterorb was overrated, everyone talking about how a cookie cut sorc it is, but in fact, it is quite difficult in 1.11 as meterorb lack of killing power in hell, especially in a mutiple players game. and because you can't kill fast enough, you put your merc in a danger position to be swarmed by monsters. so you have to constantly re-position him in order to keep him alive.
I would say meterorb is good for a single player game, but when it is more than 3 players in the game, it's getting hard to kill with your orb. however it still can sole most part of the hell if you have patient, but I would rather using a blizzard sorc, which is way faster in killing speed and easy to do boss runs.
My first char was a meteorb. My accounts expired so I went single player and tried a pure blizzard sorc to try to enjoy that superior kill rate.
I'm not seeing a superior kill rate in hell from blizzard as compared to my meteorb.
In fact the meteorb seemed much stronger at rapid killing due to it's superior damage spam than the blizz has been.
Sure the blizz sorc can spam Iceblast or glacial spike but I'd swear meteorbs fireball outdamaged either of those and both IB and GS freeze enemies which only further compounds my other exasperation with blizzard sorcs.
That other problem has been the odd randomness of blizzard itself. If the targets are stationary for any reason I seem to be totally unable to damage at least some of them at all with any amount of blizzard until I reposition the cursor experiementally before recasting it and finally get the blizzard damage to 'lock' on to the monsters that are somehow slipping between it's cracks. Of course most monsters can be made less stationary by refraining from spamming IB or GS towards them but that leaves nothing but timered spells with whcih to damage the enemy.
Meteorb was surprisingly powerful. Blizzard has been surprisingly dissappointing. :sad2:
I Mat'd my Meteorb, and I really think it comes down to play style...
I've even tampered w/ the /pX setting for Norm and NM... If need be (I assume you are on realms) is to play with no more than 3 people in game... I played most of Hell on /p1 or /p3 which is a 1 player or 3 player game on realms...
I didn't have any SoJs, PERFECT Spirit, or Skillers... I just had Full Tal's, Magefist, Ravenfrost, Tri-Res Ring, War Travs, and 'Rhyme' Grim Shield... Nothing to it... Just take your time, don't go into a big players setting, and you'll do just fine... Especially w/ the equipment you are using... Once you get the grasp of handling the Meteorb, w/ your equipment, you should be able to handle AT LEAST a 5 Players Game...
GL!!!
Aerwynd
It should be really easy with that setup.
1. If at one point in the game you find yourself not spamming fire balls during the casting delay of FO and Meteor, you are not playing the char correctly.
2. Don't be afraid to use static field. If you can remove ~50% of HP of all non-LI monsters in your area in just a few casts you've really done yourself and your merc a big favor. Of course for easy monsters you don't need to do this.
I guess the problem is meterorb was overrated, everyone talking about how a cookie cut sorc it is, but in fact, it is quite difficult in 1.11 as meterorb lack of killing power in hell, especially in a mutiple players game. and because you can't kill fast enough, you put your merc in a danger position to be swarmed by monsters. so you have to constantly re-position him in order to keep him alive.
I would say meterorb is good for a single player game, but when it is more than 3 players in the game, it's getting hard to kill with your orb. however it still can sole most part of the hell if you have patient, but I would rather using a blizzard sorc, which is way faster in killing speed and easy to do boss runs.
What ARE you talking about? Overrated? Killing with Orb? What happened to Fireball? Single Player? What are you comparing meteorb with? Light Sorc with Inifinity, 100 HR gear against non-LI? In my experience on the realms Meteorb is by far the most successful build for a sorc. Light Sorc is obviously more powerful but even now, not everyone can get their hands on the l337est of gears. Even so with top gear Fireball can easily compete with it. Blizzard has already been discussed.
Anyway noone is saying that once you get a Meteorb, Uniques start falling off the sky and ubers commit suicide when they see you but Meteorb is a cookie cutter and probably 1 of the top 5 character build in general. If you can't win with it, IT'S YOUR FAULT! Hundreds of lvl99 ladder sorcies agree.
What ARE you talking about? Overrated? Killing with Orb? What happened to Fireball? Single Player? What are you comparing meteorb with? Light Sorc with Inifinity, 100 HR gear against non-LI? In my experience on the realms Meteorb is by far the most successful build for a sorc. Light Sorc is obviously more powerful but even now, not everyone can get their hands on the l337est of gears. Even so with top gear Fireball can easily compete with it. Blizzard has already been discussed.
Anyway noone is saying that once you get a Meteorb, Uniques start falling off the sky and ubers commit suicide when they see you but Meteorb is a cookie cutter and probably 1 of the top 5 character build in general. If you can't win with it, IT'S YOUR FAULT! Hundreds of lvl99 ladder sorcies agree.
One of the main problems is that many players can't help but compare the killing ability of the Meteorb to their leetest PvMers (i.e., Hammerdins for one). The kill speed doesn't compare and you certainly cannot refute that. I'm plugging my ears if you babble that nonsense...
On the realms, Infinity powered light sorcs are unbelievably cheap - even for the casual player. 100 HRs is nothing now... On an aside, I would never, ever consider a fball sorc with top end gear to be even close to the killing capacity as a lightning sorc with top end gear. The immunities are not broken for the most part.
I made a Meteorb - Mat'd her, twinked her gear and in the end I will always go back to Blizz. Versatility is great, and it is certainly a strong build, but can be highly disappointing for players coming off their "leet" Hdins, Light sorcs, Java's, etc.
I am now regreting my rather derogatory first post. I apologize, ped, if I offended. We all start this game as n00bs, but some of us start with more leet gear than others, and the poorer n00bs among us should not berate the richer ones just because they were born with a silver spoon in their mouths. We SP'ers who refuse to dupe/mod are especially poor, and perhaps a little too quick to deride the richer among us.
ped, maybe you are just starting this game - if so, welcome - and so do not understand it as fully as others here (and I don't include myself as one of the masters). You are right to ask for assistance, we all (or most all) have. But we were all n00bs once.
You have great gear, a solid if perhaps not perfect build, and I think you need to lower your expectations and practice with the build to get it (perhaps) where you want it to be. The Meteorb is cookie cutter for a reason - It's one of the more powerful builds out there, especially with good gear. You should check out the "Superdave" thread in the Ama forum - he's got an essentially unequiped Amazon playing with only the gear she finds and nothing but passive skills deep into Hell. Hardcore Hell, which means he has yet to die. Not even once. Think about that for a moment - not even one death.
People play the game differently and for differnt reasons, but the ultimate point is to play the way that makes you happy (isn't that sweet?)
One of the main problems is that many players can't help but compare the killing ability of the Meteorb to their leetest PvMers (i.e., Hammerdins for one). The kill speed doesn't compare and you certainly cannot refute that. I'm plugging my ears if you babble that nonsense...I think this is a strong point. What is a fast killer in Hell? It really all depends on your expectations.
DudSpud
My Meteororb is certainly capable of soloing hell. In fact as she is 200fcr, I tend to use her for rushing. However, I agree; expectation plays a big part. I still tend to use a Pally for the Ancients and Baals Minions. It's safer. But no-one tele's down to the throne quicker than her. No she doesn't have the power of either my pure light or pure blizz sorc; but she is flexible enough to go anywhere. Having said that, FO is just a bit ... weedy ... in Hell and whist the Meteororb is more than Hell viable, if you find her a bit fragile even with good gear, then try a Blizzballer which is a bit more balanced.
My Meteororb is certainly capable of soloing hell. In fact as she is 200fcr, I tend to use her for rushing. However, I agree; expectation plays a big part. I still tend to use a Pally for the Ancients and Baals Minions. It's safer. But no-one tele's down to the throne quicker than her. No she doesn't have the power of either my pure light or pure blizz sorc; but she is flexible enough to go anywhere. Having said that, FO is just a bit ... weedy ... in Hell and whist the Meteororb is more than Hell viable, if you find her a bit fragile even with good gear, then try a Blizzballer which is a bit more balanced.
Blizz must not be idiot proof because I certainly am not seeing this amazing damage advantage of blizz over my old meteorb. Is there a work around for the "monster stands between the columns of falling ice" problem that forces me to stop and recast blizz sometimes several times to get a few monsters that stayed put as the blizz was dropping down?
The advantage of blizzballer must be that of essentially trading meteor with it's fireball synergy for a maxed blizzard but I had iceblast, glacial spike and blizz all hard maxxed and cold mastery raised to 19 with skillers and yet I still took just as much time to kill groups of monsters as my meteorb did even when no cold immunes were present.
mephiztophelez
25-01-2007, 04:50
my $0.02
your gear is godly, your build is ok but not optimal (pump those fire synergies!)
look at your play style, it might take a little longer to clear an area compared to a hammerdin or k/t sin, but with a base-point in static and some playing skills, you have a character that can hell-rush eZ.
tals is just stupendous gear on a meteorb.
WOW what crazy responce i got from you guys, Thanks alot... reading all this made me realize/understand alot of important things. But i should have been more clear with what i was trying to say in my original post. After spending the last couple of days thinking and reading about it i figured it out! but in the meantime let me clear some things up.
i am no noob to diablo, before 1.10 i only played hc... i built a lvl 99 meteor orb.. so i'm perfectly capable of playing this char. Infact i don't think i've even died once, playing in softcore. (i'm too used to playing cautiously)
I think the reason for my disapointment is the fact that i'm comparing the killing rate back to how 1.09 was. Heh does anyone remember what 99% ofpeople did in 1.09 ? Moooo, moomoomoo, thats right ...COWS!!!, it definatly was alot different than it was now. The Monsters were MUCH easier to kill, didn't have as much life, or as much resistance. With all that said, i think my problem was expecting to clear an 8 plyaer hell game the way i used to clear a cow lvl'n in 1.09.. which definatly won't happen with this sorc...
I was also comparing my kill speed to a Hammerdins, which now i realize was dumb. Yes, Baal + chaos have alot of fire/cold immunes so it's pretty much the worst place for my sorc to be.
btw some stats of my sorc for those who asked:
Str: 169
Dex: 65
Vit: 355
Eng: 63
I want a mass clearer, so i starting building a Hammerdin pally today. Btw i don't ebay my items, i have just a ton of friends who kept playing after i quit.
Thanks alot for all the responce and good luck guys.
-Ped
jesterlolz
25-01-2007, 06:53
Ahh the good times in the channel bahacow, cowing with my nova/orb/ts sorc. Anyway, I think infinity would definately help you more than doom. Doom might give you hf, but an act 2 defensive merc does as well. The -res on his doom doesn't apply when you attack. Infinity, however, can break immunities with its conviction. I would definately suggest getting an act 2 defensive mercenary with infinity, gaze, and shaftstop (lots of people argue other ways, but I think that is more well-rounded). If you find yourself chugging the blues, maybe insight would be a better choice for you.
Aside from that, get the mages and happy hunting.
KingOfBloodBath
25-01-2007, 17:11
What ARE you talking about? Overrated? Killing with Orb? What happened to Fireball? Single Player? What are you comparing meteorb with? Light Sorc with Inifinity, 100 HR gear against non-LI? In my experience on the realms Meteorb is by far the most successful build for a sorc. Light Sorc is obviously more powerful but even now, not everyone can get their hands on the l337est of gears. Even so with top gear Fireball can easily compete with it. Blizzard has already been discussed.
Anyway noone is saying that once you get a Meteorb, Uniques start falling off the sky and ubers commit suicide when they see you but Meteorb is a cookie cutter and probably 1 of the top 5 character build in general. If you can't win with it, IT'S YOUR FAULT! Hundreds of lvl99 ladder sorcies agree.
I am compare Meteorb to a pure blizz/blizzBall Sorc,
Here is the problem of Meteorb in hell, remember there are always more fire immue than cold immue in hell (as much as 2:1 ratio), for example in chaos, the huge amount of venom lord and doom knight are count 50% percent of the monsters here and they are fire immue, as for cold immue, there is only 25% percent of doom knight (those casting knight) , same thing apply in WS and Baal Throne room. Even with those monster are not fire immue, most of them have certain fire resistence, your damage would not fully apply on them, as for blizz sorc, every non-cold immue monster take double damage on blizzard( cold mastery)
for a meteorb, the most killing power comes from fireball, meteor,that's a pain in those area full of fire immue, which you need to rely on orb to kill. when you spamming fireball during cast delay, a bunch of your spamming fireballs will be absorb by those fire immue monster, if there are groups of monsters with mixed immunity. as opposite, blizzard could taking down the certain group much faster, and only leave those cold-immue monster (then it's up to you how to deal with, either you could just tele away, let your merc kill them, or if your are blizzball, spamming fireballs now)
I know meteorb could run more place than a pure bllizz sorc, but regarding the raw killing power...
I will list 4 places that you will see the much difference regarding killing power between these 2 sorcs:
1) a 8 players cow game
2) killing Mephis
3) 4-8 players chaos
4) 4-8 players Throne (only those skeleton magi in second minion spawns are cold immue, all the rest will be distroyed in your blizz in secs)
just do those yourself with these 2 sorc and find the result yourself, you will understand what I am talking about.
@ King of Blood Bath --> Of course a Blizzy has more RAW killing power... You don't fully synergize Meteor/Fireball... It could be exclaimed just the opposite... The Meteorb WILL TOTALLY DECIMATE anything that a Blizzy can't...
NM, I don't want to start a flame war...
Aerwynd
*posted this before reading your thread above, about kill in 1.09 .... made sense then :azn:
It really just HAS to be your playing style.
I have a 89 Meteorb Sorc, that wasnt perfectly built at all ... the meteor dmg is only 9.8k on the high end, and I have too many in cold mastery. I went almost all vitality also.
Freeze merc with Fort and Bonehew (need doom)
I use Occy with cold facet
Enigma
Perfect Kiras
1soj
Tals ammy
and a junk p topaz lidless
I NEVER die during baal runs, unless its due to lag. I can tele everytime, even with souls (merc can kill them), and although it would take a while, I could solo a baal run with 3-4 ppl in the room without dying for sure.
How did he get all that gear if he does not know how to play?
It seems there are many people with perfect gear who seem to be total beginners...
AnimeCraze
25-01-2007, 18:19
Read his reply later. He used to play a 1.09 "pwn j00 4ll" sorc, and......, you can't have such expectations in 1.10.
Read his reply later. He used to play a 1.09 "pwn j00 4ll" sorc, and......, you can't have such expectations in 1.10.
was 1.09 more fun than 1.11?
was 1.09 more fun than 1.11?
regarding the blizzard vs meteorb threadjack I made a little thread soliciting advice for blizzard sorc and there's been zero replies in the day or so since. Does anybody remember anybody else seeing what I seem to be seeing which is blizzard "missing" monsters that aren't cold immune? not damaging them at all?
Maybe I'm the only one to see this and my game is bugged in some way. That might explain the total lack of responses. I may also have to make a new meteorb in case the 3 month or so gap in play time was enough to distort my recollections of her kill rate in hell.
She *did* have full tals set with a max fire orb set with a near perfect fire facet but I assumed that since damage calculators showed my blizz should still have outdamaged her even taking that gear difference into account I've still had higher expectations for the blizz.
So ur basically admitting that Meteorb is just under Hammer, Java, infi Light? That's all I wanted. I ain't saying Meteorb can beat those but obsoleting it is just silly. It's been tested and proven. Personally I wouldn't go for pure light if I didn't have Infi, Grif, Ets etc and I don't. Meteorb is the next best thing and it IS comparable. They both work but the one is just faster...So you CAN compare them right?
Pure Blizz builds are also powerful but run into the same difficulties as Meteorb (Fireball is pretty much maxed in my build). If it's immune, you gotta rely on your merc. At least Meteorb got orb to backup him up. The issue with how many immunes are in baalruns is true but not important enough to make me op for Blizzard knowing it's weird behaviour and inability to deal with some important areas in the game. I know everyone is just getting boosted to hell baalruns these days, but I still play most of the game in hell.
And after all maybe it's just me and you. Some guy said he didn't like Dual-Tree, I say I think Single Tree (except light inf) is too focused... But please, don't you say Meteorb can't do Baalruns and that all dual builds are doomed. Been there done that. Again, if you can't baalrun with Meteorb you're doing something wrong.
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