BvB and BvA questions.

[draffut]

I caught the bug to make a PvP-oriented barb. But I really don't care to make another BvC at the moment, so figure I'd give either BvB or BvA a whirl. At the moment I'm undecided as to which I prefer.

I took some of my PvM built barbs out to public duel games, just to get a feel for what I might prefer, and came to the (startling, yea right) realization that public games are not exactly the smarter places to do research.

For starters, curious if Leap is at all useful for BvB? Or is it simply a waste of time and the points should be devoted entirely to Shout and Iron Skin after WW/Mastery/BO are all maxed?

Any BvA guides out there? Or is it really just a hybrid of BvC and BvB? Or is it a totally different style of playing than the other two?

[Jackson]

There is almost no focus on leap in BvB. BvB uses almost completely different equipment than BvC. There isn't as much emphasis on resists, but rather on block, DR, and damage.

Try using the "Search" function on the forums. You'll find some interesting stuff.

[draffut]

There is almost no focus on leap in BvB.

I see, thanks.

Try using the "Search" function on the forums. You'll find some interesting stuff.

No, I really won't find interesting stuff :sad:

The search function doesn't allow me to search for "BvA" because it's too short a phrase. "barb versus all" or any deviation thereof produces no real results for me either because all those terms are too common.

I did, however, scour the first 20 pages of topics, but information on BvA seems to be restrained. The two most prevailent pieces of information I dug out of the first twenty pages of topics were:

1. BvA is mostly just a BvC with max block (with a handful of topics elaborating it as w/ stormshield, Fortitude, and Angelics).
2. BvA is x times more expensive to build than BvC.

Those are the two most agreed upon opinions I've run into in all those topics, and they don't make any sense to me. If a BvA is a BvC with max block and those types of specified equipment, how is it more expensive than BvC?

And how is a BvA played like a BvC if you're using Fortitude and not Enigma? Cause as I understand it, BvC is built around Leap, TELEPORT, and WW, which would be impossible with a Fortitude. All these statements on BvA are either, as far as I can tell, completely contradictory, or stated with some kind of other information that I'm not given, leaving me at an odd to understand. Does BvA use Fortitude, and faster run/walk instead of Teleport? Or is it simply a matter of using Enigma most of the time, and Fortitude when necessary (which would be the same for BvC, no? but in the topics I found, it made it out as if Fortitude was specific to BvA and not BvC)?

[Ce Olba]

.I did, however, scour the first 20 pages of topics, but information on BvA seems to be restrained. The two most prevailent pieces of information I dug out of the first twenty pages of topics were:

1. BvA is mostly just a BvC with max block (with a handful of topics elaborating it as w/ stormshield, Fortitude, and Angelics).
2. BvA is x times more expensive to build than BvC.

Those are the two most agreed upon opinions I've run into in all those topics, and they don't make any sense to me. If a BvA is a BvC with max block and those types of specified equipment, how is it more expensive than BvC?

It doesn't mean it in the way you are thinking. It's talking about how to make a non-trashed BvA, meaning one with high life and so on.

And how is a BvA played like a BvC if you're using Fortitude and not Enigma? Cause as I understand it, BvC is built around Leap, TELEPORT, and WW, which would be impossible with a Fortitude.

ARG! A little common sense, people! Of course you're not going to use Fortitude all times. Or how did you think you are going to kill any half-decent casters with no teleport?

Does BvA use Fortitude, and faster run/walk instead of Teleport? Or is it simply a matter of using Enigma most of the time, and Fortitude when necessary (which would be the same for BvC, no? but in the topics I found, it made it out as if Fortitude was specific to BvA and not BvC)?

Yes. You are correct here.

Fortitude is used by all barbarians at some time. BvBs use it always, BvAs use it versus barbarians, smiters, hammerdins ... And BvCs use it versus hammerdins and Smiters.

The reason for this is found by simple common sense:
Let's compare two barbarians: One uses Enigma always, thus it has more life than the other one. The other one uses a Foritude on all times, thus he has more damage but less life.

If you look at how WW works, the second barbarian (the Fortitude one) will win more matches than the Enigma one. This is because of how Whirlwind works: You cannot be hit without being hit unless you are superior to your opponent either skillwise or gearwise.

With this statement in mind, the times the Fortitude barbarian will hit will be like: He hits for a lot of damage and loses less life due to the opponent having less damage.
As for the Enigma one, it will be like this: He hits for lower damage and loses less or the same amount of effective life due to Enigma.

The key here is, when comparing the two, they are exactly the same, except that the Enigma-barbarian hits for less life and can still take the same amount of lost effective life, which would make him auto-lose.

Hope this is not too confusing.

[draffut]

It doesn't mean it in the way you are thinking. It's talking about how to make a non-trashed BvA, meaning one with high life and so on.

While I appreciate the answer, I'm still at a loss as to understanding _why_ BvA is more expensive than BvC. As far as all these topics I've been trying to find, the equipment is largely the same. I realize a BvA's life is far lower than a BvC's because of the points into dex for max block. But that doesn't really tell me why BvA is more expensive than BvC.

Is it simply a matter of BvA _requires_ high end charms to not be "trashed" where as for BvC, high end charms are _optimal_ but not as required to be x-level of efficient?

Because the way I'm looking at it right now, people are telling me BvA and BvC equipment (for the large part) is similar. Whatever high end charms a BvA may or may not require, I'd imagine would be just as useful on a BvC. So that leaves me without an explanation on why BvA is so much more expensive than BvC.

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Also, when building a BvA, would some points from Leap be diverted to getting a stronger Shout/Iron Skin, or would you end up diverting points from say Natural Resistance toward the defense-based skills?

[Ce Olba]

While I appreciate the answer, I'm still at a loss as to understanding _why_ BvA is more expensive than BvC. As far as all these topics I've been trying to find, the equipment is largely the same. I realize a BvA's life is far lower than a BvC's because of the points into dex for max block. But that doesn't really tell me why BvA is more expensive than BvC.

Is it simply a matter of BvA _requires_ high end charms to not be "trashed" where as for BvC, high end charms are _optimal_ but not as required to be x-level of efficient?

Because the way I'm looking at it right now, people are telling me BvA and BvC equipment (for the large part) is similar. Whatever high end charms a BvA may or may not require, I'd imagine would be just as useful on a BvC. So that leaves me without an explanation on why BvA is so much more expensive than BvC.

A BvA absolutely needs to have the best possible charms. This is to make sure that the lack of life won't be gigantic. Because if it is, then you are just making a crappy barb that will have next to zero chance of beating BvBs and casters. Not that you have much chance of beating BvBs anyways.



Also, when building a BvA, would some points from Leap be diverted to getting a stronger Shout/Iron Skin, or would you end up diverting points from say Natural Resistance toward the defense-based skills?

Leap, Natural Resistances, Increased Speed. Pretty much everything. And even then, at most you can only max Shout, leaving you with a darned low defense, making your seriously crippled versus BvBs. Specially if you start doing stupid stuff like saving stat points with EBotdZ and still think that you have even a chance of beating a decent BvB.