View Full Version : Enchant from demonlimb is now BM?
Bulgarian
07-01-2007, 05:04
What the hell?
Depends on who you play with, and who cares....
Precast has always been bm.....
Bulgarian
07-01-2007, 06:04
Precast has always been bm.....
Precast? Precast of just enchant on barbs?
Lord Nyax
07-01-2007, 06:56
What you should do is make an Enchantress. Get a level 55 Enchant with ~7k damage. Then if people whine about your Demon Limb, bring her in and chuckle lightly. Then cast it right in front of them.
Alternately, make a Passivezon and cast Inner Sight on them. Then chuckle lightly and bring in the Enchantress anyways. Maybe Decrep them too...
Thoridian
07-01-2007, 07:34
What the hell?
No, people just need an excuse why they lose...
Bulgarian
07-01-2007, 07:34
What you should do is make an Enchantress. Get a level 55 Enchant with ~7k damage. Then if people whine about your Demon Limb, bring her in and chuckle lightly. Then cast it right in front of them.
Alternately, make a Passivezon and cast Inner Sight on them. Then chuckle lightly and bring in the Enchantress anyways. Maybe Decrep them too...
This is the only true solution. :laugh:
bobofuzzlymunky
07-01-2007, 08:23
What you should do is make an Enchantress. Get a level 55 Enchant with ~7k damage. Then if people whine about your Demon Limb, bring her in and chuckle lightly. Then cast it right in front of them.
Alternately, make a Passivezon and cast Inner Sight on them. Then chuckle lightly and bring in the Enchantress anyways. Maybe Decrep them too...
the good ol' days. then after eating pubbies, youd go hork some cows.
Dennis_KoreanGuy
07-01-2007, 17:38
Depends on who you play with, and who cares....
That's all bm/gm is.
O.Al, you seem totally into judging a skill's bm/gm'ness. Who cares? :cool:
Precast? Precast of just enchant on barbs?
If a sorc uses memory + cta before the duel then i would concider that bm as well as using fade.
Bulgarian
07-01-2007, 19:03
If a sorc uses memory + cta before the duel then i would concider that bm as well as using fade.
Thats bull****. There are whole characters built around 'precasting' or prebuffing.
That's all bm/gm is.
O.Al, you seem totally into judging a skill's bm/gm'ness. Who cares? :cool:
Huh? I understand all that. It's just that, you cant get anyone to admit defeat anymore. So far I've heard that draculs on a whirlwind barb and enchant from a demonlimb is BM. I just think thats completely ridiculous.
512 post mark !?
Heh.
There's this little thing you must understand =)
Precasting shows weakness in your build. periode. The moment someone precasts in a duel with me is the moment they loose my respect =)
Depends on who you play with, and who cares....
Couldn't have said it better myself. If it's such a big deal, just party and chant them-rehostile. If its not BvB, just see if they won't mind stashing there cta....:jig:
Dennis_KoreanGuy
07-01-2007, 21:05
Thats bull****. There are whole characters built around 'precasting' or prebuffing.
Like ES FBs.
Huh? I understand all that. It's just that, you cant get anyone to admit defeat anymore. So far I've heard that draculs on a whirlwind barb and enchant from a demonlimb is BM. I just think thats completely ridiculous.
512 post mark !?
A little bit of Enchant isn't going to hurt anyone, actually it will but they got ebug exiles so..
WW does not initiate ctc skills, so much "fairer" than Dracul smiters.
Do you recognize 512 as any special milestone, othere than used for computer memory size? :grin:
Originally Posted by Lord Nyax
What you should do is make an Enchantress. Get a level 55 Enchant with ~7k damage. Then if people whine about your Demon Limb, bring her in and chuckle lightly. Then cast it right in front of them.
Alternately, make a Passivezon and cast Inner Sight on them. Then chuckle lightly and bring in the Enchantress anyways. Maybe Decrep them too...
This is the only true solution. :laugh:
yea that or squelch (much quicker than leaving the game and leveling 2 characters and rejoing the game.... oh theyve gone)
Bulgarian
07-01-2007, 22:30
Like ES FBs.
A little bit of Enchant isn't going to hurt anyone, actually it will but they got ebug exiles so..
WW does not initiate ctc skills, so much "fairer" than Dracul smiters.
Do you recognize 512 as any special milestone, othere than used for computer memory size? :grin:
Exactly....
Just memory size.... 2^9 ftw
Heh.
There's this little thing you must understand =)
Precasting shows weakness in your build. periode. The moment someone precasts in a duel with me is the moment they loose my respect =)
It's their right to be able to use their own skills. So what if it shows weakness? Its their fault if you catch them off guard with no precast, but to say that its BM is... The moment I hear somebody tell me I cant use my own skills is the moment I lose respect in them.
Btw, are you telling me that BO is also BM?
It's their right to be able to use their own skills. So what if it shows weakness? Its their fault if you catch them off guard with no precast, but to say that its BM is... The moment I hear somebody tell me I cant use my own skills is the moment I lose respect in them.
Btw, are you telling me that BO is also BM?
Are you keeping Demon Limb on switch, then it fair..
Do you need to walk back to ur stash to do so, you've just acknowledged that u miss AR and thus..made a faulty build =)
No, bo isnt BM, unless you ( as before) need to walk back to ur stash to do so.
superjayson
07-01-2007, 23:21
Dueling is BM
Bulgarian
07-01-2007, 23:26
Dueling is BM
OMG LYKE, I KNO RITE?
Well then, you chose not to respond, convo over.
Bulgarian
07-01-2007, 23:43
Well then, you chose not to respond, convo over.
I got an idea. Why dont you use the fact that precasts are limited to your advantage? Why not stall the duel and wait for their precast to run out of time? Atleast there your giving a fight. Saying "That is BM." is just like saying, "I dont want to fight because I dont want there to be a possibility of me losing.". It shows weakness right? Then why not demonstrate that you are superior by giving them the benefit of the doubt?
Heh.
I dont refuse dueling them, I encourage them duel me and fail. I cant change the fact thats its plainly bm and weak =)
I dont stall duels, I either play offensive and make sure the duel is over in 30 seconds, or play a tad defensive but never dissapearing off the minimap.
Precasters tend to run to town before they die, to not go trough the extensive precasting minutes again ( heh, doesnt this show they actually know it bads? but continue doing so?)
Bulgarian
08-01-2007, 00:17
Heh.
I dont refuse dueling them, I encourage them duel me and fail. I cant change the fact thats its plainly bm and weak =)
I dont stall duels, I either play offensive and make sure the duel is over in 30 seconds, or play a tad defensive but never dissapearing off the minimap.
Precasters tend to run to town before they die, to not go trough the extensive precasting minutes again ( heh, doesnt this show they actually know it bads? but continue doing so?)
Fact = precasting is bm ?
Since when? BM is opinion based. You told me that it shows weakness(that is your opinion). If you were to play in a private dueling game and ask people not to precast then you would be getting easy kills because they are weaker without it. You arent letting them use their charactesr to their full potentials. Whats the point of setting rules to make it easier on yourself?
Generally precasters in pub games run in town because they are lazy(they dont want to regear themselves), not because they think its bad.
I let them precast all they want, I duel them once, beat them.
If they run back to town before deeds, I ask them not to do it again, mostly they refuse and go on about.. why waste another 5 minutes.
And why would that be giving my an advantage over them, I play a ww/trapper ffs, one of the most abusable ones.. but I actually put time and thought behind my build NOT to need precasting to: stand a chance.
FYI: A chars full potential = always field proof.
Bulgarian
08-01-2007, 00:36
I let them precast all they want, I duel them once, beat them.
If they run back to town before deeds, I ask them not to do it again, mostly they refuse and go on about.. why waste another 5 minutes.
And why would that be giving my an advantage over them, I play a ww/trapper ffs, one of the most abusable ones.. but I actually put time and thought behind my build NOT to need precasting to: stand a chance.
FYI: A chars full potential = always field proof.
a character's full potential = anything given in the game that could be used to help
You choose not to use fade/BoS or venom, thats your choice. You arent using your character to it's full potential. Skills are a given in the game. They were put there so that they can be used.
aslong as they dont run back in town during a duel, I still dont see anything wrong with it
I let them precast all they want, I duel them once, beat them.
If they run back to town before deeds, I ask them not to do it again, mostly they refuse and go on about.. why waste another 5 minutes.
And why would that be giving my an advantage over them, I play a ww/trapper ffs, one of the most abusable ones.. but I actually put time and thought behind my build NOT to need precasting to: stand a chance.
FYI: A chars full potential = always field proof.
Just curious, are you saying that you dont precast BO on your ww/trapper?
Dennis_KoreanGuy
08-01-2007, 00:42
a characters full potential = anything given in the game that could be used to help
You choose not to use fade/BoS or venom, thats your choice. You arent using your character to it's full potential. Skills are a given in the game. They were put there so that they can be used.
and items were given to us so they can be used, so negating an elementalist completely isn't bm?
bm/gm doesn't depend on legitness of the action. For desynching, it is surely not as near "legit" as putting on tgod wisp wisp lightsabre lo'd kira, yet many consider it gm, so therfor, it is gm.
If you ask such a general question as is something bm/gm, it depends on too many people that we have to generalize to the general d2 public's opinion, which is definitely not accurate nor smart imo.
and according to mr d2 general public, things vary on gm/bm even in precasts. More than 50% think fade bm, so it is. More than 50% don't think demonlimb buff is bm, so its gm. etc.
Just curious, are you saying that you dont precast BO on your ww/trapper?
I think rabbi's point is that if he has it on switch, its fine. He just frowns on stash switching I think.
Bulgarian
08-01-2007, 00:42
Just curious, are you saying that you dont precast BO on your ww/trapper?
like he said, its fine unless you have to run back in town
he probably has a spirit + cta on switch
Just curious, are you saying that you dont precast BO on your ww/trapper?
Read field-proof.
I can join a game and instantly fight, there's no matter of precasting with me.
Bulgarian
08-01-2007, 00:50
Read field-proof.
I can join a game and instantly fight, there's no matter of precasting with me.
Unless you only duel in pubs, why would you need to be field proof?
Unless you only duel in pubs, why would you need to be field proof?
Lets twist that shall we, in a 1 vs 1, ( which matter btw), would ( as the tones of ur posts are) stoop to any level of " using skills that the games have given you" ?
Or, would you become more then a simple guidewhore?
a character's full potential = anything given in the game that could be used to help
You choose not to use fade/BoS or venom, thats your choice. You arent using your character to it's full potential. Skills are a given in the game. They were put there so that they can be used.
aslong as they dont run back in town during a duel, I still dont see anything wrong with it
I do use fade/bos, I dont prebuff them, simply because I balanced my char not to need to prebuff.
The problem is with them, I offer them fair duels, they try to conceil there lack of skill by prebuffing =)
Bulgarian
08-01-2007, 01:09
Lets twist that shall we, in a 1 vs 1, ( which matter btw), would ( as the tones of ur posts are) stoop to any level of " using skills that the games have given you" ?
Or, would you become more then a simple guidewhore?
I do use fade/bos, I dont prebuff them, simply because I balanced my char not to need to prebuff.
The problem is with them, I offer them fair duels, they try to conceil there lack of skill by prebuffing =)
guidewhore?
give me an example of what skills would make me stoop.
Read field-proof.
I can join a game and instantly fight, there's no matter of precasting with me.
Well I guess that must be pretty cool for you. I'm not seeing anyone dueling that way however. I prefer to duel with skills which are only inherit to my class,
but I can't expect everyone else to conform to my way of thinking. As a matter of fact, I'd say most duelers do not just use skills that are inherit to their class and your hybrid character is really no exception to that criteria. Doesn't mean that I would respect you any less tho.
Well I guess that must be pretty cool for you. I'm not seeing anyone dueling that way however. I prefer to duel with skills which are only inherit to my class,
but I can't expect everyone else to conform to my way of thinking. As a matter of fact, I'd say most duelers do not just use skills that are inherit to their class and your hybrid character is really no exception to that criteria. Doesn't mean that I would respect you any less tho.
Good for you =)
This thread is about prebuffing. If you feel this way ur main concern should be with the threadstarter =)
Good for you =)
This thread is about prebuffing. If you feel this way ur main concern should be with the threadstarter =)
Actually it is relavent, since prebuffing in general involves the application of skills that are not inherit to other skill classes. So, if you use ww and cry if other people prebuff with other skills, I think It's hypocritical. You just happen to enjoy some other charcters skill without the prebuff. Your really not that special.
I didnt start this thread for some self glorifiaction.
Please reread my statements, I dont cry, I duel them on there terms and manage to beat them.
Do not turn this into something personal, try to keep it civil like Og was doing.
I let them precast all they want, I duel them once, beat them.
If they run back to town before deeds, I ask them not to do it again, mostly they refuse and go on about.. why waste another 5 minutes.
And why would that be giving my an advantage over them, I play a ww/trapper ffs, one of the most abusable ones.. but I actually put time and thought behind my build NOT to need precasting to: stand a chance.
FYI: A chars full potential = always field proof.
Kinda sounds like self glorification.
And this kinda of text------->Good for you =) comes across as bit insulting in the context that it was written.
"crying" may have been a poor choice of words on my part, but you come across as very anti-prebuff and I'm failing to understand your point of view, especially since prebuffing makes a character actually stronger. Your beating up on newbs who prebuff doesn't sound relevant to the OG's original complaint. You might not be "crying" but you sure sound like your a part of the group that does.
Heh.
Prebuff = compensating for a weak char, undeniable.
Skill showing would be not needing this, i'm not forcing anyone to comply, they either do or dont. If they dont, they hold no interest for me.
Dueling is about balancing, prebuffing would be the whiny little spoiled kid who wants both.
ViciousXV
08-01-2007, 02:38
enchant in all the credible bvb circles is bm and banned and i agree with rabbitz prebuffing just shows weakness in your build for the most part maybe few exceptions even though i cant think of any off the top of my head
Heh.
Prebuff = compensating for a weak char, undeniable.
Skill showing would be not needing this, i'm not forcing anyone to comply, they either do or dont. If they dont, they hold no interest for me.
Dueling is about balancing, prebuffing would be the whiny little spoiled kid who wants both.
Yeah but it certainly can get out of hand BvB wise. I mean, dueling a barb that prebuffs not only Limb, but also fade w/ treachery(ow belt switch?), full set of wc gear while swapping out 9xWC GC's and prebuffing thier fort is just rediculous. It really doesn't mean that their character is weak, it just means your loss to such a dueler (should you chose to wait that long zzzz) shouldn't have any meaning or weight.
IMO these threads always turn out to be people trying to force their opinions unto others. Neither party is "correct" in the sense that there isn't a universal definition of GM/BM.
The chance of Rabbitz ever dueling with OG Al (for example) is slim to none, so I don't see why you guys would even have to try and agree on a standardized set of rules. :undecided:
Anyways... continuing on with the discussion....
IMO these threads always turn out to be people trying to force their opinions unto others. Neither party is "correct" in the sense that there isn't a universal definition of GM/BM.
The chance of Rabbitz ever dueling with OG Al (for example) is slim to none, so I don't see why you guys would even have to try and agree on a standardized set of rules. :undecided:
Anyways... continuing on with the discussion....
Yeah lol, I shoulda just stopped reading this thread after your original post.
Yeah but it certainly can get out of hand BvB wise. I mean, dueling a barb that prebuffs not only Limb, but also fade w/ treachery(ow belt switch?), full set of wc gear while swapping out 9xWC GC's and prebuffing thier fort is just rediculous. It really doesn't mean that their character is weak, it just means your loss to such a dueler (should you chose to wait that long zzzz) shouldn't have any meaning or weight.
That grasp the concept :laugh:
But it still shows there char cannot stand the heat without all that prebuffing =)
Clay bizzle
08-01-2007, 09:07
Prebuffing is less BM then it is n00b to me. This thread does well to show who prebuffs or not. Typically I don't even use CtA's BC and BO in pubs with some chars since my weapon switch is another weapon I plan on using. Just not even worth running back and forth to the stash over duels that last seconds and mean nothing as far as reputation.
You play a wolfie, were not even in your league :D
I was talking more mainstream, but in a 1 on 1 you surely adept to your oppenent without stashrunning alot?
Bulgarian
08-01-2007, 15:12
Prebuffing is less BM then it is n00b to me. This thread does well to show who prebuffs or not. Typically I don't even use CtA's BC and BO in pubs with some chars since my weapon switch is another weapon I plan on using. Just not even worth running back and forth to the stash over duels that last seconds and mean nothing as far as reputation.
the majority of bnet precasts, I guess that means that theyre all n00bs huh?
the majority of bnet precasts, I guess that means that theyre all n00bs huh?
Heh. You have no idea how correct you are.
Besides, im sure atleast half of bnet dupes, would you?
Bulgarian
08-01-2007, 15:16
Heh. You have no idea how correct you are.
Besides, im sure atleast half of bnet dupes, would you?
Of course... haxors <3
Prebuff = compensating for a weak char, undeniable.
^_^
1234567
Prebuff = compensating for a weak char, undeniable.
Well that makes no sense really, as if your well balanced character would be even better if you prebuff.
Not that I do it... I just lack the patience to get to stash every now and then.
You make no sense what so ever, of course my prepuffed bvc would be better off, that's the whole reason for prepuffing...
Bulgarian
08-01-2007, 20:29
I dont understand how prebuffing with an ES sorc shows weakness. You're using items to compensate for the lack of skills diablo provides.
I dont understand how prebuffing with an ES sorc shows weakness. You're using items to compensate for the lack of skills diablo provides.
:rolleyes:
A lack of skills?
Diablo doesnt provide. Are you kidding me now?
Bulgarian
09-01-2007, 01:22
:rolleyes:
A lack of skills?
Diablo doesnt provide. Are you kidding me now?
Yes, im kidding.
.........
ES sorces dont have enouph points to spend into ES, if they did they wouldnt need any items to precast.
Yes, im kidding.
.........
ES sorces dont have enouph points to spend into ES, if they did they wouldnt need any items to precast.
You mean, like Lightning ES sorcs?
Bulgarian
09-01-2007, 05:56
You mean, like Lightning ES sorcs?
All ES sorces put 1 into ES, dont they?
All ES sorces put 1 into ES, dont they?
But Lightning sorcs have a clear advantage over fire and cold based ones, since they have an automatical +9. However, even they cannot reach the optimal 95% without a memory. But that is the only prebuff they need, compared to the fact that if other builds want to reach 95% ES, they will need to carry around a lot of prebuff gear, mainly skillers and helms/amulets with +3 lightning skills. Actually, if you look at it, with just 1 pt in ES you cannot reach 95% (which takes level 40), since you will end up like this:
1 base
13 from stash
20 from gear
1 outside of gear
total: 35
So you will need a base level 6 ES. That's why most people settle for 90% or 85% or even don't care about the percentage, just that they have it.
But seriously, if it was possible to do what I did on open (a fb sorc with 95% ES, 200% FCR, max block, 50% PDR), that would make a sorc probably one of the deadliest of characters. I mean, 10 000 damage would only do 43 damage to their life, which would be around about 3% of their life. Not cool. However they would die in three OWs time, meaning 24 seconds.
...of course my prepuffed bvc would be better off, that's the whole reason for prepuffing...
Thats what I said!
= )
Thats what I said!
= )
No, that's not what you said, re read your post.
No, that's not what you said, re read your post.
Lol
4567890
Clay bizzle
10-01-2007, 05:08
You play a wolfie, were not even in your league :D
I was talking more mainstream, but in a 1 on 1 you surely adept to your oppenent without stashrunning alot?
I play other chars in PvP too.
Uncle_Mike
10-01-2007, 12:50
What the hell?
It is not bm although not needed vs most oponents. Plus it is a charge that takes .5 sec to use and not amu, circ, 2 rings and 9 skillers etc that take 5 minutes to prebuff with...
Plus why do you even ask that? IIRC you claimed that it is ok to wear tgod 2 wisps and lo'ed items vs light chars because it's their fault they made an absorbable char... You seem way to focused on the bm/gm thing which does not matter at all in public games and in private game you can always discuss rules with the oponent or simply act reasonably. I see no reason why enchant would be bm against a 40k def exile lt slow smiter etc.
Plus many people settle for less %ES because 95 might be an overkill unless you have godly items. You need an insane mana pool and good skills so that you do not lose es after taking some heavy dmg. For example, In the right hands Olbas dream sorc would be crushed with 24k fb vita sorc IMO. Other thing is that for svs vita is said to be >es.
my 2cents
mainaman
12-01-2007, 13:31
meh i have heard that enchant is bm but i have also heard that
LEAP is bm :shocked:
ppl complain about anything when they lose as its been said in one of the previos posts
Lunarhammer
12-01-2007, 23:07
I guess you can say this is a stupid question but whats bm?
I guess you can say this is a stupid question but whats bm?
I think you mean the abbreviation, not the definition of what is bm.
Well, bm is short for Bad Manners. It's a generally abused thing to refuse a duel or make an excuse when you lose a duel: The opponent is "bm" or using "bm items". However, neither exist. You are never "good mannered" as you still want to kill your opponent, and since "good mannered" is the anti of "bad mannered", if "good mannered" does not exist, neither can "bad mannered" exist because everything needs to have a counter-part. That's called "balance". If the balance is off-set, it both goes against the human logic and shouldn't thus exist.
Mythatic
14-01-2007, 09:30
Demonlimb is GM, EXCEPT melee duels
Fade is BM in all cases
Really...fade is for noubz
Demonlimb is GM, EXCEPT melee duels
Fade is BM in all cases
Really...fade is for noubz
Aka, a little longer version: no one can ever use Demonlimb (because non-melee'ers don't do squat with it) and no one can ever use Fade.
Sounds rather funny.
And any reasons please? And still, it's only your opinion. You do notice that you just killed a whole build (melee sorcs) and crippled a whole lot more (trappers, wwsins, ww/trap sins, kickers, every sin) ?
Dont act like you didnt understand he meant fade prebuffing.
Dont act like you didnt understand he meant fade prebuffing.
It's not like I didn't understand what he meant. But it's not about what he meant, it's about what he said/wrote. It said "fade" not "CtC fade" or "fade prebuff", so from what he WROTE you can say that he just crippled a whole class.
Mythatic
15-01-2007, 06:48
Aka, a little longer version: no one can ever use Demonlimb (because non-melee'ers don't do squat with it) and no one can ever use Fade.
Sounds rather funny.
And any reasons please? And still, it's only your opinion. You do notice that you just killed a whole build (melee sorcs) and crippled a whole lot more (trappers, wwsins, ww/trap sins, kickers, every sin) ?
I've played thousands of melee games and in Pn/1 games, and trust me, people have been abused because demonlimb and fade and poison damage in melee games.
I don't think you would understand it for our melee players.
I would say Demonlimb is okay in pub CASTER DUELS, since nearly almost anything goes. But in Melee, we follow rules that satisfies for out duels.
Melee applys to Zealots, Conc Barbs and Wolf Shifters
Who wrote that sorc don't have "enough" skills? that's such a STUPID thing to say as they have alot of skills... It's all about "I choose to use this skill here", and deal more dmg but die faster... Anyway, I always thought that it's one switch choice - the game was made so that you can switch weapons, so choose wisely if you want Cta or Memory...
As for fade CtC... that's so lame waiting for it to triger... If it were a charge thing then it would still be overpowered on everyone who is not an assasin, now it just so lame...
Enchant is OK I think in some duels, it "only" gives some AR to help hit the buged exile smiters with life tap... so less bm then bm? haha
I've played thousands of melee games and in Pn/1 games, and trust me, people have been abused because demonlimb and fade and poison damage in melee games.
I don't think you would understand it for our melee players.
I would say Demonlimb is okay in pub CASTER DUELS, since nearly almost anything goes. But in Melee, we follow rules that satisfies for out duels.
Melee applys to Zealots, Conc Barbs and Wolf Shifters
So you are saying that Smiters and WW barbarians, Kicksins, WWsins are all casters?
Mythatic
15-01-2007, 14:05
So you are saying that Smiters and WW barbarians, Kicksins, WWsins are all casters?
Do you expect them to be all pure melee?
In your definition, are they melee? don't you see them more in caster games more often? don't they bm our melee games as well?
Some WWsins are hybrid trappers too.
I'm applying the demonlimb/fade concept in melee duels, we respect our rules and manners in those type of hand-to-hand Stationary physical combat duels
Do you expect them to be all pure melee?
By the definition of melee, which stands for hand-to-hand combat, yes, they are all melee.
In your definition, are they melee? don't you see them more in caster games more often? don't they bm our melee games as well?
Some WWsins are hybrid trappers too.}
By the definition of melee, which stands for hand-to-hand combat, yes, they are all melee.
And your second-to-last question is just pathetic. Just because they do that, they are not melee?
"caster games"? So, you've totally ignored the fact that there are more games with the name "Barb v Barb" "BvB" and such variations than there are any other class specific duel games? Congratulations
I'm applying the demonlimb/fade concept in melee duels, we respect our rules and manners in those type of hand-to-hand Stationary physical combat duels
Hand-to-hand combat = melee. Being stationary has nothing to do with melee. Or what the hell, martial arts are not melee because they have steps or rolls?
And no, none of the D2 duels are ever physical. Physical, strictly, means non-weapon combat. Which doesn't happen in D2 PvP.
Before you say a single thing, please reform your arguments. The form of words that you use is very open, allowing the other side to exploit any possible loopholes, just as I am doing.
Mythatic
15-01-2007, 16:32
By the definition of melee, which stands for hand-to-hand combat, yes, they are all melee.
Do you include smiters as well?
And your second-to-last question is just pathetic. Just because they do that, they are not melee?
Because they could just lay down traps and kill off melee duelers by taking advantage to their low resists? THis is GM melee duel.
"caster games"? So, you've totally ignored the fact that there are more games with the name "Barb v Barb" "BvB" and such variations than there are any other class specific duel games? Congratulations
Wrong, Zeal duels are more of a common game name in Non-Ladder East which the realm that I play in.
and...when did I say Barb vs Barb? They are WWers. I'm talking about GM melee zealots, concentrate barbs and fury wolfs, not smiters/kickers/WWsins/or BvCS.etc
Do you guys say "!go" ontop of your head when ready for a zeal duel? No, most of them jump, hump, nk take gold, and say "cry nub ez". Respect? Nope
The types of chars like smiters/WWsins hybrids/BvCs, most of them bm, nk and take zealot golds since they take advantage of us most of the times?
Hand-to-hand combat = melee. Being stationary has nothing to do with melee. Or what the hell, martial arts are not melee because they have steps or rolls?
And no, none of the D2 duels are ever physical. Physical, strictly, means non-weapon combat. Which doesn't happen in D2 PvP.
Physical, by mean I meant pure all physical damage, NOT using fists OR Elemental damage....please, this is d2 we are talking about here, not real life fist fighting.
We "click and hold" for all our melee duels. Excluding smiters.
Obviously you've never been the game called Pn//1 or meleepk tournaments. You don't need to know about it though, its just how the rules are.
Before you say a single thing, please reform your arguments. The form of words that you use is very open, allowing the other side to exploit any possible loopholes, just as I am doing.
Thank you for your concern, I'll be aware of that?
ViciousXV
15-01-2007, 16:55
Melee applys to Zealots, Conc Barbs and Wolf Shifters i would have to agree reason kicksins arent consider melee or not let into most melee leagues is cause psn is considered bm and thats most of there damage. ww and smite i dont consider them full melee or maybe i just consider them a different type of melee and the rules are different for smiters and ww compared to other melee. i agree some rules are questionable in all cases but some are to keep up good competition and banning enchant i think is one of the better rules its not fair even if both are using it, cause if your attack rating are upwards of 30k then that takes the skill out of the duel right there if you melee alot you know about this any hard work you put into getting high def or higher ar than your opponent is negated and thats just a waste of time then. Real pvp is all about respect its ok to use chant vs a glitch exile smiter(cause there bm), but if your dueling a non tap smiter using chant i would consider that bm its all a judgement call really if they bm you bm if they gm you gm that easy nothing hard about it.
Do you include smiters as well?
Can you deny that attacking your opponent with anything, be it a shield or an axe, doesn't count as a physical, hand-to-hand combat attack?
Because they could just lay down traps and kill off melee duelers by taking advantage to their low resists? THis is GM melee duel.
Show me a barbarian laying down traps.
Please, give me the universal and official meaning of "GM" and "BM". If you fail to, please stop using such words.
Wrong, Zeal duels are more of a common game name in Non-Ladder East which the realm that I play in.
and...when did I say Barb vs Barb? They are WWers. I'm talking about GM melee zealots, concentrate barbs and fury wolfs, not smiters/kickers/WWsins/or BvCS.etc
So, you tell me what makes WW barbarians different from Zealots? The fact that their attack is a moving one? What makes Smite different from Zeal? The fact that it's ITD, ITB and auto-hit?
Again, please give me the universal and official definition of GM before using such words.
Do you guys say "!go" ontop of your head when ready for a zeal duel? No, most of them jump, hump, nk take gold, and say "cry nub ez". Respect? Nope
"Respect"? Please, define respect universally and officially. After doing so, you can keep on using the word. If you cannot, then don't use it.
The types of chars like smiters/WWsins hybrids/BvCs, most of them bm, nk and take zealot golds since they take advantage of us most of the times?
Please, stop generalizing. For one, I don't go around NKing people, nor do I see any zealots in any games. As for BM, define it universally and officially first before using it.
Physical, by mean I meant pure all physical damage, NOT using fists OR Elemental damage....please, this is d2 we are talking about here, not real life fist fighting.
BAN RAVENFROST! IT ADD'S COLD DAMAGE!
We "click and hold" for all our melee duels. Excluding smiters.
All of all duels are made of pressing buttons, clicking a button on the mouse, moving the mouse around. Nothing else.
Obviously you've never been the game called Pn//1 or meleepk tournaments. You don't need to know about it though, its just how the rules are.
Why should I have been to such games?
And what makes you think that at any time, anyone is even barely interested in what leagues do? Everyone knows about stuff like that. Blah, ctc=bm, doom=bm, grief=bm, blahblah.
A little hint: if your only argument is going to be that this and that is bm and you cannot define bm universally AND OFFICIALLY, please stay out of it.
I was in a dueling guild once, the only things we considered to be BM were stacking specific resist/sorb gear (except ravenfrost for melee), or going to your stash for gear swapping.
If you want to keep precast items in your inventory instead of some charms, sure, go ahead.
Of course, everyone's opinion differs, and things have greatly changed since my dueling days -.-
banning enchant i think is one of the better rules its not fair even if both are using it, cause if your attack rating are upwards of 30k then that takes the skill out of the duel right there if you melee alot you know about this any hard work you put into getting high def or higher ar than your opponent is negated and thats just a waste of time then. Real pvp is all about respect its ok to use chant vs a glitch exile smiter(cause there bm), but if your dueling a non tap smiter using chant i would consider that bm its all a judgement call really if they bm you bm if they gm you gm that easy nothing hard about it.
Well, click and hold duels don't envolve skill anyway. I would agree on the bm/gm judgement call tho.
Well, click and hold duels don't envolve skill anyway. I would agree on the bm/gm judgement call tho.
* sigh *
Mythatic
16-01-2007, 02:36
Can you deny that attacking your opponent with anything, be it a shield or an axe, doesn't count as a physical, hand-to-hand combat attack?
I agree, they are physical, but again Smite > Zeal, can you possibly lose to a zeal even with a 1 point smite using grief?
heck do anyone think Smiters are melee duelers? THEY DONT NEED AR damnit
Show me a barbarian laying down traps.
Please, give me the universal and official meaning of "GM" and "BM". If you fail to, please stop using such words.I said WW/trap sins, and btw that was just an example trying to prove a point to you...read my previous posts.
There isnt a official meaning of GM, THESE ARE JUST OUR MANNERS MELEE GAME RULES damn it.
So, you tell me what makes WW barbarians different from Zealots? Cuase WW barbs dont hold and click?
The fact that their attack is a moving one?yes
What makes Smite different from Zeal? The fact that it's ITD, ITB and auto-hit?yes, COME-ON, Smite > Zeal damnit, they DONT NEED AR!!! RawR
Again, please give me the universal and official definition of GM before using such words.
I won't use gm and bm on this thread from now on.
"Respect"? Please, define respect universally and officially. After doing so, you can keep on using the word. If you cannot, then don't use it.
Respect IN D2 GAME, not universally and officially defined in real life, means as in giving us space for us to get body(you like s/e a lot right?), no gold taking(you like your gold taken, eh?), NOT talking trash(dont you just wanna punch those people? "OMG EZ NUB", "IM HAMMERDIN, BUT IM MELEE YOU KNOW!!!!???", SMITE IS MELEE TOO)", and Jumped on top of people(you like being jumped and humped?)
Well I guess all these questions, you would probably say "no, I don't" to all of them.
You forgot, this is D2 we are talking about, not exactly the same as it is in reality.
Melee(in D2) requires AR, so I would ACCEPT dueling a WWsin or WW barbs.
Please, stop generalizing. For one, I don't go around NKing people, nor do I see any zealots in any games. As for BM, define it universally and officially first before using it.
Are you a Pub? I'm sure you're a gg legit dueler and besides, you're in Europe realm, so I don't really know or care about there.
BAN RAVENFROST! IT ADD'S COLD DAMAGE!
"OMG IM GONNA DIE, phew good thing I have a Raven Frost as well.":wink3:
Lets do simple math:
(Cold dmg+Cannot be Frozen) - (Cold dmg+Cannot be Frozen)
= 0
which means it CANCELS OUT!!!! YAY
Cham your gear or get another raven to deal out cold dmg
All of all duels are made of pressing buttons, clicking a button on the mouse, moving the mouse around. Nothing else.
True, but can you build a well melee geared zealot and go 1-on-1 with other mannered zealots?
Again this is "click and hold"
Why should I have been to such games?
You dont have to, you just dont know, your in Europe realm, remember?
And what makes you think that at any time, anyone is even barely interested in what leagues do? They dont need to care, we were bond to duel with such rules and manners that would make Zeal Vs Zeal or other melee types fun.Everyone knows about stuff like that. Blah, ctc=bm, doom=bm, grief=bm, blahblah.
Exactly, thats in MELEE DUELS, in pub caster duels, everything pretty much goes...really, mercs...farcasts, auto-tele, ctc....
A little hint: if your only argument is going to be that this and that is bm and you cannot define bm universally AND OFFICIALLY, please stay out of it.
BANNED THE WORD: BM AND GM, UNLESS GIVEN AN UNIVERSAL AND OFFICIAL DEFINITION, NO ONE'S ABLE TO USE THIS WORD.
Well, I guess I won't be using it.
This is D2, not real life.
Well, click and hold duels don't envolve skill anyway. I would agree on the bm/gm judgement call tho.
I agree as well.
AnimeCraze
16-01-2007, 03:24
The only hard and fast definition of melee that I can personally think of (it has nothing to do with duels, GM, BM, or whatever) is:
If your attack is converted into pure physical damage, would a necro casting IM on you kill you on the spot (or at least damage you)? If yes, you are melee.
Though I don't PvP, I can't stand the fact that word melee is definied by "advantages" instead of game mechanics.
Mythatic
16-01-2007, 03:52
Double post
EDIT
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