Summoner druids are an embarrassment. [Archive]

amazon

23-12-2006, 08:47

Blizzard has guts to call the druid's third branch summoning. You might as well call amazons and assassins summoners as well. Oh, and the sorc, 'cause she can summon hydras. Seriously, what kind of master of nature can only call three wolves--each of which can only take one or two hits--to help him kill prey? If I buy three bulldogs, some poison ivy and a pelt of fur to wrap around my neck, will I become a druid?

When I first heard the word "druid" six years ago, I imagined a summoner who could call twenty wolves out to dispose of his enemies. But no, blizzard limits us to three. Or a single measly bear. Sure, the bear might be able to take a few hits, but still, what kind of summoner can only call one thing at a time? You don't see the necromancer's skeletons' bones shatter when he summons a golem.

If I were blizzard, I'd make it so that you could summon all three vines at once, and at least ten wolves or three grizzly bears. The summoning branch is totally unreasonable...

nebux

23-12-2006, 08:54

true that dr00d summoners are slow in hell. it will be good for more dire wolfes and maybe two bears. yet with good gear they're still slow but fun

Yossarian

23-12-2006, 10:11

Dennis_KoreanGuy

23-12-2006, 16:12

With excellent gear they are actually quite fast. My bear has 6000 life and does over 3000 damage before my HOV 260%+ed, Beast 93%ed, Pride 345%ed and might 180%ed. Mix that with a poison creeper (the games most misunderstood awesome skill) and raven for crowd control and mass damage along with a shockwaving bear, (me) so that everything is constantly stunned, you are insanely tough in pvm.

Plus if you ever get hostiled it's fun as hell to lead them into an area packed with monsters and to TP on top of the person and watch them die almost instantly from your bear and vine and go "WTF" because they thought you were a pussy.

The only weakness is for phy immunes. Having a Lacerator in your cube as you run in areas with lots of them is not a bad idea. Once you've done your summons unequip your hoto with it and cast amp to break them.

Almost any physical dealing char can own PvM with wealth such as of yours. :wink3:

I understand what you mean amazon. Though Druid's are the nature dudes, it seems pretty unfair why they would be so effective at controlling environment spells, especially wind, than living creatures of the nature.

Then again, I like it unbalanced like this. And Druids aren't the only chars that doesn't really go with what they are suppose to be. Take Sins for example. Their martial arts suck, but theoretically MA is a greater deal than laying traps in terms of the idea of being an Assassin.

Don't compare Druid's summons to Nec's summons. They are far more natural, peaceful, and pleasent compared to 30 grave skeletons and 20 dead monsters aiding you.

LorveN

23-12-2006, 17:37

think about it. 3 grizzlys would be too good almost. Not to mention the pvp aspect of it.

Zabo

23-12-2006, 19:14

think about it. 3 grizzlys would be too good almost. Not to mention the pvp aspect of it.

Irrelevant. Blizzard has made it painfully clear that the main focus of this game was PvM and PvP is nothing more than an add-on.

In general, very few chars can get through the game using a single skill tree. You have to use others in conjunction to get through it. A single tree sorc? Ha. Immunes. Hammerdins? You have to use auras along with combat skills. Barbs? Warcries along with combat.

Don't limit yourself to using one tree. That's your own fault, and as a result you see the druid as weak. Granted, it might not be overpowered, but it gets the job done. As mentioned, even using a lacerator would help out. Assist the summons, attack as they do.

Akimbo

23-12-2006, 23:32

Darksteel

24-12-2006, 03:17

Having a shamn druid myself (fire/bear) I do gotta say that having more than one bear out seems a tad overpowering. Maybe if you could have wolves and a bear out at the same time. I've been saying that for a while and I really think blizz should do it.

superjayson

24-12-2006, 04:42

A summon druid isnt such a bad char.. The only problem I really see is too many people expect every char/build to kill in the same way a Hammer pally or sorc can.

iamclaniraq

24-12-2006, 05:28

A pure summon druid can actually do fairly well in pvp. He just gets destroyed by chars that can camp, like a fire sorc sitting in meteors. Of course, if that druid had maxed fissures and volcanos....

Lord Nyax

24-12-2006, 08:59

zeiris

24-12-2006, 09:13

I did some calculations for a pure summon druid (pvp-centric) with flawless gear and whatnot. Got around 12K with HoW active, no might merc with pride - just druid and bear and spirit.

Then I looked at summon necs - which can, imo, afford to use a might merc with Pride - and stopped my calculations when I realised you'd have 11 skeletons, each one doing 2K. (Possibly well over 2K - I didn't finish.)

Does re-summonability (get rid of lifetap/namelock) and skill point effectiveness (20 points for max damage grizzly, 20 more for HoW) make up for that? Ehhh..

... And oh yeah. You can leech off the bear.

vknez

30-12-2006, 10:50

i made summoner on last ladder
this char is most fun of all i played (and i played all)
skills 20 grizzly, 20 dire wolves, 20 how, 20 lychantropy, carrion vine 1

i shape in bear and use shockwave
hoto, spirit shield, jalals, 3 summon amu (teleport charges), bk, arach, +2 armor, 9 skilers, druid torch, raven, ribcracker on switch

might merc with unique tresher (decrepify)

with him i can play every part of hell without any problem, and its slow only in big games

its not the best equipment i can have (beast, cta,anni...)

so dont say anything bad about summoner because i doubt u played him enough or in right way
i think most important is use of shockwave!

i play with how, 3 dire wolves 5 ravens (1 point), and vine
grizzly for bosses

iamclaniraq

01-01-2007, 08:30

There was a build that was fairly common in the 1.10 ( I say "fairly" with considerable...refrain) which was essentially a Fire Druid with a meaty Bear. Funny thing is, Bears can do pretty intense damage. A lot of builds will completely underestimate or ignore the bear on a Druid they think is elemental. Turns out that being whacked upside the head by something you thought was a 1-point skill makes you...feel silly.

It was fun, what can I say. You should try it. Fire druids are freakishly underestimated. They're incredible defensive duelers.

That druid was a Shaman, either me (Grizzly on east) or Earth's Bday (Flames on east)

Anyway, trick is bear only needs 20 points into the skill, all the synergies and HOW are wastes of skill points, which left the fire tree quite open. Both of us are retired now...

But no, a bear won't hit 12k Damage. The damage doesn't stack like that from +% sources, it just adds that to the amount you already get from summon grizzly (which is already like +600%). So you might hit 7k tops, which a good caster build. Still, thats enough to take out a giant chunk of ANY pvp'ers HP. It was pretty common to 1 or 2 hit kill most people as I teleoprted around. Great char for 4v4's

Yossarian

01-01-2007, 10:09

How is the damage calculated? My summons are at lv 37 and my dire wolves diplay like 993 damage with max dire and bear.

201-207 would be the damage unmodded. So how does the 385ed from the bear make it 993 (I think that's exact, I'll double check tomorrow cause it might be low actually)?

LV 37
[(385 bear syn)x(258 HOW)x(345 conc pride)x(180 might merc)] Thats 1198 ed.

My bear lists at near 4000 damage now I think.

Can anyone smarter than my show how this is calculated because I can't get the numbers to work out.

SSoG

01-01-2007, 13:04

The summoning tree line doesn't take up an amazing amount of skill points, use the rest in shapeshift or elemental skills as backup to help you deal damage faster. Also druid summons don't need a corpse, are cheap to cast, and you can spam them all day easily.
That's the real strength of Druids. Sure, decked out Necros might have a much buffer army... but show me a Necro who can spend 5 skill points and get a tank as buff as Grizzly. Or spend 24 skill points and get as viable of a killer as Grizzly.

How is the damage calculated? My summons are at lv 37 and my dire wolves diplay like 993 damage with max dire and bear.

201-207 would be the damage unmodded. So how does the 385ed from the bear make it 993 (I think that's exact, I'll double check tomorrow cause it might be low actually)?

LV 37
[(385 bear syn)x(258 HOW)x(345 conc pride)x(180 might merc)] Thats 1198 ed.

My bear lists at near 4000 damage now I think.

Can anyone smarter than my show how this is calculated because I can't get the numbers to work out.
Wherever you're getting that 993 damage figure from is wrong. Slvl 37 Dire Wolves + Slvl 37 Grizzly = 1105-1246 damage.

Slvl 37 Dire Wolf = 228-257 base damage * 4.85 (Grizzly bonus) = 1105.8-1246.45, truncate both values, and voila... damage range.

Morathi

01-01-2007, 13:25

druid summoners are not a joke they are very very good untwinked characters that can do HC with no problems real problems (well maybe one that is PI's). Take a look at all the tournaments in the SPF and see how many Summoners there are.

Yossarian

01-01-2007, 16:03

Wherever you're getting that 993 damage figure from is wrong. Slvl 37 Dire Wolves + Slvl 37 Grizzly = 1105-1246 damage.

Might be faulty memory but shouldn't that be (*3.85) not 4.85?

SO hwo does HOW, Pride and might effect that?

SSoG

01-01-2007, 20:11

Might be faulty memory but shouldn't that be (*3.85) not 4.85?

SO hwo does HOW, Pride and might effect that?
Grizzly *ADDS* 385% ED, so you multiply by 1 (base damage) + 3.85 (ED).

Think of it this way... if Dires averaged 100 damage, and Grizzly added 50% ED, would you say that Dires should do 100 * .5 damage (or 50 per hit)? No, you'd say that they should deal 100 * 1.5 damage (or 150 per hit).

Whenever you're talking ED values, you always add 1 before you multiply. :smiley:

As for HoW, Pride, and Might... they get added in along with Grizzly ED. If you have 385% ED from Grizzly and 1000% ED from auras, then you multiply by 1 (base damage) + 3.85 (Grizzly) + 10.00 (Auras), or by 14.85.

Jary

01-01-2007, 22:31

Grizzlys are fun to use, they're a lil' too slow pvp but if they land a hit on a sorc or lightweight they can kill. Best suggestion I used is using cheap Doom axe with enigma/spirit and trying to catch people off guard.
Also, that's a good point... you don't even need many points to make a killer Grizzly...however, I used most in synergies ><

Summon skills exponentially increase per lvl too, which can be a big advantage at upper levels. I dont see how people cant get lvl 44-47 range for their summons, its very easy. I dont see why people use Faith and Beast, etc, 'cause for the extra damage you lose like +4-5 skills in synergies, but maybe you gain a lil' speed so its peachy ><.
for example, mine was
Jalal (+2)
Nigma (+2)
spirit (+2)
+3summon ammy/mf
Doom (+2)
2xsojs
arachnid
anni
torch
7xsummon GC
=lvl 46

Unfortunately I stopped at 84, but grizzly did massive damage :)

HyphyFury

01-01-2007, 23:13

Hmm I wanna see hardcore characters go play PVP xD

Yossarian

02-01-2007, 04:55

I dont see why people use Faith and Beast, etc, 'cause for the extra damage you lose like +4-5 skills in synergies

Buff is on swtich. I summon on one side then switch to beast.

Yossarian

02-01-2007, 05:03

My dire wolf damage now: 3385 (max)

Bear: 10319 (max)

Krim

04-01-2007, 13:42

That's the real strength of Druids. Sure, decked out Necros might have a much buffer army... but show me a Necro who can spend 5 skill points and get a tank as buff as Grizzly. Or spend 24 skill points and get as viable of a killer as Grizzly.

Not using any plus skills? 10 points in revive, revive a bunch of Claw Vipers, or a bunch of Gloams. Both to insane damage, and with some few points in SM (or maybe without) they pretty much never dies. Thereby being both a better meatshield, and a better damagemaschine. Only drawback is off course the problem of getting these creatures in the first place, and only being able to use them for duels for 3 minutes. But I personally think that's fair.:smiley:

PFS

04-01-2007, 14:12

Does anyone know - how does the damage bonus from dire wolves eating corpses get added in?

Is it to their base damage before multiplications or is it added on like ED from Auras and the like?

Summon necros are seriously underrated - 3 Dire wolves and Poison Creeper work pretty well when your merc is decrepifying enerything, you ravens blinding all the monsters and you have all the monsters immobilised with shockwave.

hhhrobi

04-01-2007, 14:23

In general, very few chars can get through the game using a single skill tree. You have to use others in conjunction to get through it. A single tree sorc? Ha. Immunes. Hammerdins? You have to use auras along with combat skills. Barbs? Warcries along with combat.

elemental druids can :rolleyes:

safetypro

04-01-2007, 16:59

hmmmmm Summoners no good? Interesting, I just cleared game with my Werebear Summoner and my Dire Wolves/Grizzly stood up very well in hell. :flip:

It all comes down to a few factors in order to determine success or failure, not only to this build, but to all builds.:wink:

1. Proper Gear Selection:
Pick gear that provides additional skills or characteristics (like life leach for melee builds) and supports the character and existing skills (like summons) in terms of correct auras. Don't forget to address the necessary fundamentals like resists, chance to hit and chance to block (when applicable).

2. Support Skills:
The right combination of skill sets are required (eg. Werebear who provides elemental damage compliments summons when facing physical immunes).

3. Player Skill:
All other factors aside, a particular character is only as good as the person who controls it. Learn when and when not to use a particular skill and how to overcome specific weaknesses.

Let's face it, there is no one character that can cakewalk through the game. Each has strengths and weaknesses (eg. Iron Maiden for Melee characters or elemental immunes for certain casters). The players ability to handle those weaknesses through skills, gear and artful character control will make or break a specific build.

Yossarian

04-01-2007, 17:17

Let's face it, there is no one character that can cakewalk through the game.

*cough* megaoverpowerhammerdinsevenwithoutmegapluskills *cough*

safetypro

04-01-2007, 17:56

LOL Yossarian, I have one too. But even a Hammerdin has his weaknesses like gloams and projectile launching monsters. Those winged girl creatures and poison snakes always give me a fright when running D keys.

Jary

04-01-2007, 21:38

Jary

04-01-2007, 21:41

Buff is on swtich. I summon on one side then switch to beast.

oh, ic my bad. I guess since my main item 'Doom' is also my caster I forget ><, I'm a nub lol.

safetypro

04-01-2007, 22:05

4k life and max block/resists? I wouldn't be scared of anything :P

LOL, I have died during a couple of D key runs. Just about the time when you start gaining confidence and think you are invincible, this game has a way of humbling you and reminding you that you can die if you don't play cautiously.

Verashiden

04-01-2007, 23:18

Champion swarm of Gloams in Throne >.<.

Very humbling moment.

Strid

05-01-2007, 00:22

Summons are NO joke.

If you have 40'ish Grizzly+Dire Wolves, you'll rip through even the worst parts of Hell. Add a Faith bow, act II merc with Might and Holy Freeze from that rune word, and the game is too easy.

Even without auras, you can easily get good summons. If you have three direwolves running around with maxed DW and Grizzly, and just a few +skill items, I wouldn't call them a joke by any means.

I agree somewhat with what you say. Why only 3 direwolves, when necromances have like a screen full of skeletons, ressurected monsters and what not? Also, I'm sad that Grizzly, how powerful it might be, is given one of the worst AI in the game. If you have a Grizzly in PvM, it only hits once in a while, not like it's really helping alot, though when it hits, it does serious damage.

For PvP, I haven't been duelling in these new patches (1.10 and up) really, but back in 1.09, I had a really great Shockbear with level 40ish grizzly. It would kill most town guarding Cheap-a-zons in one hit, basically.

Another good strategy is to have Thorns or SoB auras and have 5 Spirit Wolves out, which also make people sort of kill themselves.

5 Ravens can help block lock other players.

Carrion Vine is a real life saver in PvM

Solar Creeper is great if you play untwinked Elementalist

Poison Creeper, well, not really a great skill IMO, but meh, it's there.

Oak Sage, that skill is -teh- king. Insane life boost, if used with CtA, you can get like 6000 life on a caster, without perfect gear. It's not overpowered like I feel BO is, so that's a bit of a down side, comparing the two.

HoW, is a great sill and adds to your partys damage and AR, who doesn't like that. Doesn't quite compare to Barb masteries or Pally auras, though. Still a great skill.

SoB, is like 10% of Thorns, which is why this skill is basically useless except for specific rare cases.

No joke. :grin:

Krim

05-01-2007, 16:20

Another good strategy is to have Thorns or SoB auras and have 5 Spirit Wolves out, which also make people sort of kill themselves.

For a dane studying at Københavns Universitet, you should know, that the lack of life of the 5 summons would do, that the damage returned would lack in the same way. Thereby not being as effective as a resummonable grizzly, although a better meatshield. :grin: (Joke :smiley:)

Strid

05-01-2007, 16:35

For a dane studying at Københavns Universitet, you should know, that the lack of life of the 5 summons would do, that the damage returned would lack in the same way. Thereby not being as effective as a resummonable grizzly, although a better meatshield. :grin: (Joke :smiley:)

Believe it or not, I used to do that before 1.10 with my Shockbear. SoB (Spirits of Barbs, not Son of a ***) and 5 spiritwolves. I wish I could show you, I was able slowly chip away another players life this way. Especially WW barbs and such, this was my only option. They'd just rip right through me and the Grizzly, which never would get a chance to use the infamous swipe attack.
Other strategies included "Wall of SW" which is what I call spamming spirit wolves infront of you to avoid getting hit from ranged attack. SoB spamming is what I call it, when I tried to place an SoB between an attacker and me.
This was all before Enigma. And maybe - MAYBE - I'm just a retard. :laugh:

PFS

05-01-2007, 16:35

Poison Creeper, well, not really a great skill IMO, but meh, it's there.

NO! Poison Creeper is a seriously Awesome skill when you are fighting groups. The listed damage is low but the skill is broken and when more than a single monster is on the mat it does crazy damage. With a fairly cheaply equipped Summon Druid Poison Creeper can do NM Cows without too much problem. I am pretty sure a decently equipped one could do Hell Cows.

Oak Sage, that skill is -teh- king. Insane life boost, if used with CtA, you can get like 6000 life on a caster, without perfect gear. It's not overpowered like I feel BO is, so that's a bit of a down side, comparing the two.
It is not so useful for a summon druid though - you really should not be getting hit very often with blinded ranged monsters, your creeper drawing fire and three wolves as a meatchield. Your summons can just be resummoned when they die - which is not all that often

HoW, is a great sill and adds to your partys damage and AR, who doesn't like that. Doesn't quite compare to Barb masteries or Pally auras, though. Still a great skill.
Not as good as fanatism, but still very nice - and stacks with pally auras in multiplayer games. For a summon druid this is the Spirit/Sage you should be using.

For a dane studying at Københavns Universitet, you should know, that the lack of life of the 5 summons would do, that the damage returned would lack in the same way.
With the druid carrying an Edge Bow they will be returning 810% of the damage they take. And AFAIK Summons don't get PvP penalties for returned damage, this will not work against a decent dueler, but should be fun in Pun games.

Another nice thing about summon druids is that the summon synergies work with +skills as well as hard skill points. Like the Necro summoning tree.

Rabbitz

05-01-2007, 17:12

That's the real strength of Druids. Sure, decked out Necros might have a much buffer army... but show me a Necro who can spend 5 skill points and get a tank as buff as Grizzly. Or spend 24 skill points and get as viable of a killer as Grizzly.

Heh, sorry mate, I really enjoy most of your posts but this one got to me :wink3:

1 point Gumby, 1 point Golem Mastery, 1 point Summon Res.

Tada =)

Strid

05-01-2007, 19:51

PFS, I don't agree totally with you, but I can follow you. Personally, I don't like HoW compared to Oak Sage, I like the extra life better than more damage, but each to his own. Both spirits are great. When you're an elemental druid Oak Sage is especially great, don't forget that. I'll get killed in a jiffy in PvP, but in PvM it works wonders. It's also able to tank to some extend.
I agree that high level Dire Wolves don't die that often, but still. OS also helps the Merc and everyone aren't able to afford CtA.
Also, you shouldn't use Oak Sage, if you opponent's just going to leech off of your summons, then HoW is always the way to go.

Never really looked too much into Poison Creeper; I've never thought of it as being that effective. Perhaps I'm just too 1.09 biased. Just got back recently into the game after stopping just a couple of months after 1.10 hit battle.net. :laugh: I've been playing alot with summoner builds lately, though I've just been ignoring the vines altogether.

Yossarian

06-01-2007, 06:13

DO a search on poison creeper. There was a thread about it just a few weeks ago. It's damage scales to the number of monsters so in packed areas is deadly.

adecoy

06-01-2007, 06:56

Champion swarm of Gloams in Throne >.<.

Very humbling moment.

such a game is never complete without a conviction enchanted fireballing undead pack next to them

Verashiden

06-01-2007, 07:32

such a game is never complete without a conviction enchanted fireballing undead pack next to them

True, True. Don't forget they the Undead is Lightning Enchanted O_o

Anyways, I have a Summoner/Wolf Hybrid and I'm quite pleased with how sturdy my Dire Wolves are and how much damage they can absorb. My only dissapointment was when my Bear got pwned by Uber D's Lightning Inferno : /.

bbdruid

07-01-2007, 04:57

Anyways, I have a Summoner/Wolf Hybrid and I'm quite pleased with how sturdy my Dire Wolves are and how much damage they can absorb. My only dissapointment was when my Bear got pwned by Uber D's Lightning Inferno : /.

I was not able to beat the Uber Diablo Clone with my Summoner (hunter-mentalist). The problem was I couldn't get Prevent Monster Heal to work long enough on the UDC. My Rogue's PMH didn't work on the UDC. So, I had to use a PMH distance weapon. This did allow my bear to slowly bring down the health of the UDC. But then I was getting hit by spells and I eventually needed to run away to where I stashed a pile of potions. As soon as I got back to the UDC, he was back to full life again.

Besides Ubers, my Summoner is a great character. I can handle anything in the regular game. The key to success is following a good build guide and getting top notch gear.

BB ;-)

Verashiden

07-01-2007, 05:17

Hm, my Hybrid pwned Dclone in about 45 seconds. Of course, that was in large part due to my SMART (yes you read that right) HoW who stood behind Dclone out of lightning inferno range :). Hit hit, tap from dracs, gg.

bogie

07-01-2007, 05:56

Summoners are teh bomb. Max damage on grizzly is well over 12k in fact, its more around 18-20k dmg ;). Id like to see you survive that in PVP.

Question about shifter hybrids: Do you guys find that you can attack fast in shifted form even though you have to give up alot of WIAS in order to have weapons like beast?

Verashiden

07-01-2007, 06:46

I personally don't use Beast. I rely on HoW to keep summon dmg respectable. I was running around with Tombreaver.

iamclaniraq

07-01-2007, 20:50

Almost everyone messes up on calculating grizzly damage. 5k is a really respectable amount, and I personally used 6-7k on my Shaman, to great effect.

But lets try to figure out the MAX possible Grizzly damage. (with merc, without allies, without skill shrine)

Precasting Grizzly:
Rare Club with +2 Druid, +2 Summoning (+4)
Blue Helm (+6)
Enigma (+2)
Spirit (+2)
Skill Ammy (+3)
Sojs (+2)
Arach (+1)
Torch (+3)
Anni (+1)
Charms (+9)
Battle Command (+1)
= Level 54 Grizzly
= Level 54 HoW

Level 98 Mercenary
+Level 28 Might
+Level 20 Concentration (pride)

Final Gear:
Faith Bow (+Level 15 Fanatacism)

Now, lets sum this up.
Total Damage: 8554, +555%
Base Damage: 1306.
Mods:
100% (Base) + 555% (grizzly) + 391% (how) + 310% (might) + 345% (conc) + 144% (fanat) = 1845%

So, we have: Final Damage = Base * Mods
x = 1306 * 18.45 = 24095 Damage

Under any conditions, 24095 is the max damage attainable by a grizzly.

A normal, level 45 grizzly with level 26 how, and no auras, hits 7873 damage, which is more then enough for PvP.

Verashiden

07-01-2007, 21:32

Yeah, even wiith 50 PDR you'll be doing ~2k. That's enough to get anyone's attention.

xpumafangx

08-01-2007, 02:27

Ive seen people with summon druids do insanely well using spirit wolves. Ya the druid was decked out. But even still. It just goes to show that you actly can do really well with a underpowered skill. Also from reading others posts I also know from personal expirnce of how using more then one branch is great. I as a werewolf plays offten add 1 point in to spiritwolves, 20 in poisoncreeper, and 20 in oak sage. And in the past have used a mix of elemental and shapeshifting skills as well.

Morathi

08-01-2007, 02:43

SSoG

08-01-2007, 07:38

IMO i would prefer dire wolves to spirit wolves. Spirit wolves deal more damage. They can double damage by eating corpses, Higher AR, way more life and i think max resistance quicker. But spirit wolves are really good early on in like act 1 normal.
Damage-wise, all 3 Druid Summons are pretty comparable.

For example, if all 3 skills are level 50 and under the effects of a slvl 20 Might and slvl 20 HoW, summoned by a level 80 Druid in Hell, they will deal the following damage per second (assuming all attacks land) and have the following AR and total life (for all minions):

Spirit Wolves- 9712 damage, 14313 AR, 4880 total life
Dire Wolves- 9037 damage, 14507 AR, 4701 total life
Dire Wolves (after eating a corpse)- 9943 damage, 14507 AR, 4701 total life
Grizzly- 10043 damage, 14894 AR, 8937 life

Essentially, they all deal exactly the same damage- it's just a question of numbers, durability, and special abilities (offensive teleport, corpse disposal, knockback). Bear has far and away the most life (as well as very, very, very marginally more damage per second and AR), but Dire Wolves and Spirit Wolves might as well be exactly tied in all respects, except that Dire Wolf stats are divided among 3 wolves and Spirit Wolf stats are divided among 5.

iamclaniraq

08-01-2007, 08:09

In pvm, they are pretty much equal, perhaps spirit wolves are even better, but in PvP, its 100% grizzly, owing to the need to resummon constantly. Of course, a grizzly can be fully powered in PvP with no points in synergies or even HOW

Verashiden

08-01-2007, 08:10

Eek! I forgot that Dire Wolves' Enrage only adds to the Bear's damage synergy. Oh man, too many wrong calculations for my wolves now T-T. I hate you, SSoG :P

EDIT- Depends with Grizzly. I rather have six targets (including Sage) for an FoHer to hit than one. Same goes for Charge. Bowas'll get stunlocked by the Wolves. But Bear is fun to pwn someone with once in awhile.

SSoG

08-01-2007, 09:10

Eilo Rytyj

08-01-2007, 10:05

Calcs such as this (http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/druid_pet_calculator.html) little beauty.

merpster

08-01-2007, 10:49

Almost any physical dealing char can own PvM with wealth such as of yours. :wink3:
Then again, I like it unbalanced like this. And Druids aren't the only chars that doesn't really go with what they are suppose to be. Take Sins for example. Their martial arts suck, but theoretically MA is a greater deal than laying traps in terms of the idea of being an Assassin.

Don't compare Druid's summons to Nec's summons. They are far more natural, peaceful, and pleasent compared to 30 grave skeletons and 20 dead monsters aiding you.

actually... druids elemental spells are very much ... 'druid', controlling wind and fire is controlling forces of nature, this is why we have natural disasters, hence Hurrican Katrina or volcanos such as Mt St Helens... as far as their summons being weak I do somewhat agree U have too have very good gear too make an effective pure druid summoner, I know very few people that have done it, and most just agree that U dont make druids Pure summon cuz "they suck":scratch:

Strid

08-01-2007, 10:58

Essentially, they all deal exactly the same damage- it's just a question of numbers, durability, and special abilities (offensive teleport, corpse disposal, knockback). Bear has far and away the most life (as well as very, very, very marginally more damage per second and AR), but Dire Wolves and Spirit Wolves might as well be exactly tied in all respects, except that Dire Wolf stats are divided among 3 wolves and Spirit Wolf stats are divided among 5.

On the paper, they're probably about equal, but I find the Grizzly to need a lot of nursing, it just wanders around unless you resummon it close to targets. Three wolfs are alot better to engage in combat on their own. i don't know if it's because they're more wolves, increasing the chance that one is close to a target or if they have different AI. I think it's proabably a combination. For multitarget PvM, I think wolves are superior. Also they draw more attention to them, which distracts attention from the druid.

Verashiden

08-01-2007, 18:52

Only smart summon AI is Poison Creeper and How : /

Strid

08-01-2007, 19:56

Only smart summon AI is Poison Creeper and How : /

I might go as far as to call it AR*!

*AR stands for Artificial Retardedness.

SSoG

08-01-2007, 22:48

Calcs such as this (http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/druid_pet_calculator.html) little beauty.

That's the one.

Only smart summon AI is Poison Creeper and How : /
HoW? One of my favorite quotes is that Blizzard was too lazy to program the AI for Oak/HoW, so they just gave it the same AI as guided arrow. Seriously, those things are like heat-seeking missiles. It's always easy to find the most dangerous monster on the battlefield, because my HoW is always merrily lighting him up for me.

The smartest summon in the game, though, is obviously Decoy. Poison Creeper is very clever, too- you never see it try to poison PoisImmunes (unlike Shadows, who will happily drop meteor after meteor on FI Fallen packs).