View Full Version : Best summoner wep?
jlmccown
21-12-2006, 14:48
I'm getting ready to suit my summoner back up, and was thinking about what wep to use? shouls I use aokl or the runeword beast? I want to get the absolute most dmg I can from my skellies? Also, what is better? Skellies or my mages? thanks!
Eilo Rytyj
21-12-2006, 16:15
Cheap, or for prebuff: AoKL
Expensive, on switch: Beast
HotO = no contest.
AoKL is fine as an end-game weapon. Enigma (if you have, of course) lets you escape those nasty prisons that threaten your existance...
Skellys vs Mages? BOTH!!!! Max both of them and you'll be laughing.
Cheap, or for prebuff: AoKL
Expensive, on switch: Beast
HotO = no contest.
AoKL is fine as an end-game weapon. Enigma (if you have, of course) lets you escape those nasty prisons that threaten your existance...
Skellys vs Mages? BOTH!!!! Max both of them and you'll be laughing.
agree that aokl is great weapon that actually gives a ton of buffs for summoners. except for its bone prison autocast i like it better than hoto.
perihagen
21-12-2006, 19:29
hoto have 30-40 all res, 40 fcr, +15%mana, 20 lif replenish and 3 all skills. Much better than AoKL!
architectofpain
21-12-2006, 19:43
put an ares jewel into AoKL. then you get more skills + res. I was searching forums and chat rooms last night. People are selling it for 1 hr now. Rediculous. I guess I'll wait for one to drop (which won't take long).
If you're not going for CE, then Beast is a good buff to your skeletons but CE > Skeletons unless you're in a big player game where I wouldn't know because I don't summon in large player games because peopel always complain of lag
As I say again and again, your main killing power comes from your merc and CE as a summoner, not your skeles, so grabbing hoto, which gives good resists, good fcr, and +3 ALL SKILLS, is much better than using a lesser skilled (for CE) AoKL that also have much less resists (even after jewel) and much less fcr, as for wiz and beast....they dont even give skills, severly hampering your killing ability with CE -.-
DeathSpawn
22-12-2006, 04:17
arm of leoric + boneflame 3 skils to summon skellies then change to beast and homomculus. this way you loose the resists from hoto but if you put a pdiamond or Um in homo and a UM in your helm then problem solved.
i agree with deathspawn.
you could get an act1 merc and use faith hydra on her.
then use hoto. but otherwise, beast DOUBLEAXE is the best choice.
and dont max CE. its pointless.. 1 point is enough. your better off maxing golum mastery. or getting all the curse's.
they dont even give skills, severly hampering your killing ability with CE -.-
That's not true; AoKL gives +2 to P&B skills.
The best weapon for your Summoner depends on what you're going to do with him and on your wealth.
If you're going to MF, then either HoTO, an Ali Baba, a Gull or an 6-isted weapon is nice.
If you're going to take on the Ubers, DEFINATELY summon your minions with AOKL. Whether you like Beast or HoTO better, depends on personal preference. If you don't have problems with resist, take a Beast. But against Mephisto and his -125 all resist (except poison) Conviction, you might want to have HoTO around.
No matter what you do, AoKL is the best weapon to summon your minions, though you might not need it when you're just going to MF.
AnimeCraze
22-12-2006, 19:00
Summon with AoKL, run around with beast, tele and spam CE with HotO. Your active switch should be beast and HotO.
Anti-Life
22-12-2006, 22:31
ive found hoto a waste on a summoner.
AoKL w/ homuc for summoning and teleporting
Beast w/ P dimond SS for killing
2 ist ali baba/4 ist monarch in cube.
just going general killing? summon with summon switch go to beast switch
MFing? summon with summon switch go to MF switch
but one thing people dont think about: make beast out of an iron golem IF ur high enough level and not going near oblivion knights, frees up options
AnimeCraze
22-12-2006, 23:01
AoKL for teleporting? That thing has low FCR, and no resist. It's even lower on the list than wiz spike.
Here's my setup.. and I think it works fine.
Wiz: For teleing around (reach FCR breakpoint) when there is no need to stop and attack. This weapon is really nice, because having maxed resists in hell guarantees your survival.
AoKL: I'd always use this for raising minions... no other use.
Beast: A nice weapon for clearing areas. You're fairly safe behund your wall of minions, and your curses should help with keeping the Souls/ ranged attackers at bay. Minions should be attacking/ killing fast enough for you to not need the extra FCR.
HoTO: If you find that FCR is *really* needed (to reach a certain bp..)... ex/ your minions don't kill fast enough without your constant CE-ing...
ilovesoda
23-12-2006, 01:14
i agree with deathspawn.
you could get an act1 merc and use faith hydra on her.
then use hoto. but otherwise, beast DOUBLEAXE is the best choice.
and dont max CE. its pointless.. 1 point is enough. your better off maxing golum mastery. or getting all the curse's.I disagree. With a big ranged CE you will pk/pvm better. And for pvp, beast is the only weapon imo cause your main attacks are your skeletons.
HoTO: If you find that FCR is *really* needed (to reach a certain bp..)... ex/ your minions don't kill fast enough without your constant CE-ing...
I use Hoto, magefists and 10% FCR because I find that I kill too fast and I can't keep moving fast enough without higher FCR (I move w/ teleport + meditation iron golem).
Senshiki
23-12-2006, 19:52
i agree with deathspawn.
you could get an act1 merc and use faith hydra on her.
then use hoto. but otherwise, beast DOUBLEAXE is the best choice.
and dont max CE. its pointless.. 1 point is enough. your better off maxing golum mastery. or getting all the curse's.
I completely disagree. Maxing CE gives more range, which is the main point of the skill, killing masses. With a standard Fishymancer build, you can still max golem mastery and CE. Hell, with a good iron golem, skele's, amp and a max CE, cows, Baal Runs, and Chaos Runs are virtually instant.
Eilo Rytyj
24-12-2006, 03:42
You guys are completely overrating FCR here... Trang's Gloves + AoKL + Arach's = 50% for an 11 frame cast rate, plenty for anything.
A Summoner's main power comes from his army, his army is what can plow through monsters without even looking. I'm talking about getting level 40+ skeletons, where killing becomes a breeze rather than a chore. I'm talking about 2k+ skeleton damage each with Might/Pride (4k+ after Amp), and that can keep up in 5+ player games.
The proper, correct (I guess you could say cookie-cutter) setup for a summoner requires only 2 weapons.
Summon switch:
AoKL + Boneflame(3 skill)/Darkforce(3 skill)/"Splendor" +3RS/SM/RSM head
Stabby-killy switch:
"Beast" <axe> + <your shield>
A CTA can be thrown in there if doing ubers to boost skeleton's life.
I don't see Wizardspike or HotO in there. You can live with less-than-max resists, even in uber trist. You can even go with just AoKL and no Beast, the difference in damage isn't that big, especially since you don't lose 1-3 skeletons on switch.
AnimeCraze
24-12-2006, 04:14
Tele through some black souls and tell me that again. My venom/summoner gets his rear fried w/o using wiz spike + spirit. Of course, if you are walking around and killing stuff instead of teleing, this is not nearly as necessary.
Ummm what, lol
Ok, first of all, you need 75% FCR to keep up with your minion killing speed in a 1 player game (even without CE) if you're doing runs not just sitting around/running around. If you want stuff done you go for 75% FCR or you're wasting time. Monsters go down really fast, even without beast.
Even with level 48 RS, SSM, SM (which I have and play with) you won't be keeping up in 5+ player games compared to any other players (hammerdins, sorcs, etc) because CE, the power house killing tool loses its effectiveness and so do your summons.
Third, if you go to WSK keep and aren't a leech and actually run through it, try to survive gloams without resists or fire enchanted/etc monsters.
I'm a teleporter not a sit around and wait all day kind of guy and I like my games as fast as possible though. So if you're not trying to get stuff done asap perhaps you'd have a different opinion
AnimeCraze
24-12-2006, 08:17
Even with level 48 RS, SSM, SM (which I have and play with) you won't be keeping up in 5+ player games compared to any other players (hammerdins, sorcs, etc) because CE, the power house killing tool loses its effectiveness and so do your summons.Eh......, no. They don't lose effectiveness anymore than a hammerdin lose effectiveness. Still ridiculously overpowered skills, just not a instant room cleaner like how it is with 1 player. I would say playing higher players is more the reason to max CE, btw.
Why wouldn't you max CE, whether player 1 or player 8?
Mine is around a full screen's area at lvl 35
But the killing power drops a ton
Hammerdins still deal excessive damage
AnimeCraze
24-12-2006, 11:56
Why wouldn't you max CE, whether player 1 or player 8?True, if you are a pure summoner anyways.
As for the killing power......, the damage per second still remains the same. The only issue is that you can't start chain reactions as easily, and need a few bodies before you can clear the whole screen. The hammerdin suffers just as much, IMO, since they also need to take longer to kill monsters (unless it is a really powerfuly hammerdin that can kill monsters in 1 hit, in which case this doesn't apply as much). The only skill I can think of that negates this rule is static.
Yeah, what's that whining about "CE doesn't scale up with more players in the game"? Like any other skill (except Static, like AnimeCraze said) does that.
CE works by blowing up bodies
The longer it takes to kill a creature, the less bodies you have over time
The less bodies you have over time, the lower the DPS
So yes, DPS does decrease
The power per corpse may not decrease, but the total DOT decreases
Nothing is wrong with the skill, and no one is whining, but to argue that it does not lose effectiveness is ridiculous.
Example: Compared to sorcs/hammerdins/druids where there is no initial cost and you can spam excessive damage. Hammerdins tend to do excessive damage, as do sorcs.
AnimeCraze
24-12-2006, 21:12
CE works by blowing up bodies
The longer it takes to kill a creature, the less bodies you have over time
The less bodies you have over time, the lower the DPS
So yes, DPS does decrease
The power per corpse may not decrease, but the total DOT decreasesGood point. That's by far the best arguement I have heard so far. How about the tele drop (which kills almost all common monsters instantly, from what I heard and tried).
Well, You got a point there. I've never looked at it that way.
But still... using Amplify Damage the damage is 90% - 150% of the monster's health (in a 1 player game, yes), to all targets in range. I'd say max it. It's effectiveness also increases exponentially with more points.
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.