My Two Projects: Anti-Hammerdin PvPer and to make the "underdog" PvPer!

[LeegionOnEast]

So, I want to make two new builds.

Build One:
Make a specific anti-Hammerdin build. One that just can not lose to a Hammerdin. I'm thinking a beafy, teleporting Barb that can stunlock them...any thoughts?

Build Two:
Take the most rediculous, but atleast PvM possible, build idea and make it competitive.

So...help!

[bogie]

Meleemancers FTW!!!!
It is possible on paper.... I just havnt tested my idea for it

[MysticDragon]

1. Bow/Java hybrid
2. Make a Passive zon.

[IMCanadian]

ZZomg...where have you been?????Shifter....FTW...can pwn every build...ezies hdins..n Is the amazing undeerrdoggg...wait!! do you even no who kiba is!!?!?!?!

Now..in all seriousness..hybrid auras pwn..tho most hdins can duel stack/sorb to a degree..

I wouldnt say theres a build that gg's hdins..yet, they arent unbeatable..for an underdog..hmm, definitly a passive zon..using passion for zeal/zerk and make her a tank ( I had 4k+ life, max block and pretty good dmg with huge atk speed and great ar..tho I got dodge locked to ****..so thats a problem.)

iMC :grin:

[Lyrs]

By Jav, do you mean Psn or Lightning?

Bonemancer w/ Revive stack works as well. You could build a Max Tele/ES, Max Warmth, Max Enchant Sorc using a Faith Rogue and try MercKilling. Just Teleport around and let your merc do the shooting/killing.

Builds that can't lose to hammerdins:

Any lvl 8 char
Town Druid Summoner
100% Defensive Chars

As for PVM, go with an Amazon Potion Thrower.

[pedu]

Any lvl 8 char


Hehehe. That was funny. Or then im just tired. :laugh:

[Lord Nyax]

You may want to try a Plague Ama. 95% of Hammerdins are unwilling to desynch around for 3 hours, so they pretty much have to tele. At that point, you step down 3 "yards" and toss a Plague jav, then you just wait for the inevitable 1-life Hammerdin-tele and toss a LF. It's a pretty sure bet, most of the time.

Of course, there are no builds that "cannot lose" to a Hammerdin...there are some that don't lose often, and some that have an easy time with them 95% of the time...but you probably understood that from the beginning.

[elmek]

As for the hammerdin anti-char, go for Windy.
No worries anymore ;)

[AlmostInfinity]

Any lvl 8 char

Hehehe. That was funny. Or then im just tired. :laugh:

I was laughing at that too. :laugh:

[Silent Shaddow]

make a lvl 18 char and run around in puppies stun locking ppl :rolleyes: its fun!

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

Make a Fury/Rabies. Definitely an underDOG build, can kill a lot of noob pub hdins who just aren't used to Tombreav's range 4.

[primerib]

You may want to try a Plague Ama. 95% of Hammerdins are unwilling to desynch around for 3 hours, so they pretty much have to tele. At that point, you step down 3 "yards" and toss a Plague jav, then you just wait for the inevitable 1-life Hammerdin-tele and toss a LF. It's a pretty sure bet, most of the time.

Of course, there are no builds that "cannot lose" to a Hammerdin...there are some that don't lose often, and some that have an easy time with them 95% of the time...but you probably understood that from the beginning.

If the hammer was smart at all they'd have good all around res and would cleanse as soon as they got hit. Without a bow, the zon would be easy prey for desynch.

Since the thread starter is probably talking about pubs, I'll assume the hdin is atleast semi bm. If so, that rules out all fire, lit, and cold chars due to sorb and stack. Anything that have uber close ranged attacks are also ruled out. This pretty much leaves bowzons, necs, and of course, druids.

Bows can be pked easily if the hdin equips grief. Necs are very good vs hdins. They can create ibs fields when a hammer goes defensive, and nl spear/spirit followed up by boneprison. They also have high enough damage to utilize the walking tactic vs. a hdin. Druids are a well known hdin killer. Their summon stacking allows them to teleport on the hdin, get off one or two nados, then tele away without getting hit. There are a few tactics the hdin can use to beat uneducated druids, but druids have a complete advantage over the pally for the most part.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

If the hammer was smart at all they'd have good all around res and would cleanse as soon as they got hit. Without a bow, the zon would be easy prey for desynch.

Since the thread starter is probably talking about pubs, I'll assume the hdin is atleast semi bm. If so, that rules out all fire, lit, and cold chars due to sorb and stack. Anything that have uber close ranged attacks are also ruled out. This pretty much leaves bowzons, necs, and of course, druids.

Bows can be pked easily if the hdin equips grief. Necs are very good vs hdins. They can create ibs fields when a hammer goes defensive, and nl spear/spirit followed up by boneprison. They also have high enough damage to utilize the walking tactic vs. a hdin. Druids are a well known hdin killer. Their summon stacking allows them to teleport on the hdin, get off one or two nados, then tele away without getting hit. There are a few tactics the hdin can use to beat uneducated druids, but druids have a complete advantage over the pally for the most part.
By uber close, do you mean range 2~3? You're leaving out bvcs, hyb sins, etc?

Its not a windy's summon stacks that allows them to avoid hammers. Hammers hit everything in its path, unlike WW. If 100 targets is on exactly a same spot, 1 hammer will hit everything in it.

Telejumping on a Hdin with a Windy is a stupid thing to do, unless you're very pro at finding a sneaky spot where hammerfield don't intercept, ex: just southeast of hdin. Tornado > Hammers because direction control, range, and speed to get from point A to point B.

163% fcr windies are absolute hammer killers.

[moro]

By uber close, do you mean range 2~3? You're leaving out bvcs, hyb sins, etc?

Its not a windy's summon stacks that allows them to avoid hammers. Hammers hit everything in its path, unlike WW. If 100 targets is on exactly a same spot, 1 hammer will hit everything in it.

Telejumping on a Hdin with a Windy is a stupid thing to do, unless you're very pro at finding a sneaky spot where hammerfield don't intercept, ex: just southeast of hdin. Tornado > Hammers because direction control, range, and speed to get from point A to point B.

163% fcr windies are absolute hammer killers.

actually you are wrong. barbs and sins blow vs hammerdins (especially bm/pub ones) and hammers only hit one creature in the stack. otherwise windies would be worthless =)

[akumaxyz]

no under dog can kill bm hdin.

[Summerfun]

Its not a windy's summon stacks that allows them to avoid hammers. Hammers hit everything in its path, unlike WW. If 100 targets is on exactly a same spot, 1 hammer will hit everything in it.

This is ofc not true! as long as the summons are right on-top of you the hammers only hit 1 target at a time, meaning you can tank 6 hammers before loosing any life (5 wolfs and oak sage.)
Ie. its better to tele ontop of the pala spam 2-3 tornados tele away and resummon your army.

Paladins with 125 Fcr is 1 frame faster than 163 Fcr druids.

[Summerfun]

Sry for double post, but i might have made it sound to easy to kill hammerdins with druids; its NOT!

its doable and the druid have the advantage if you are equaly skilled and geared. But its never easy

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

actually you are wrong. barbs and sins blow vs hammerdins (especially bm/pub ones) and hammers only hit one creature in the stack. otherwise windies would be worthless =)

Ugh, is this true..?

Then how do hdins have such ez time against summonnecs..? :tongue:

[bogie]

Yeah, from my experience dueling hammerdins with my summoner, hammers cant pierce minions, as the typical duel against a high def hammerdin goes like this...
1) I tele
2) He spams hammers
3) I cast amp
4) I sleep at keyboard for a few minutes as he works his way through dozens of minions
5) 20% chance that my mages kill him
6) 80% chance my skeles couldnt get through his def and they all die
7) W/O minions, I soon follow

This average duel vs hammerdins shows that hammers do not in fact pierce minion stacking, or else I couldnt possibly survive for more tahn 2 seconds or less

Edit: Whoaah, I wouldnt say they have such an easy time, its just that hammers > skeles, and it can only take so long to work through the minions, especially if that 150% ed vs undead applies to my minions :tongue:
Ive fought many hammerdins in which the duel was a race, could the hammerdin kill my minions before they killed him :shocked:

Bogie,

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

Ok, cool, then how does the game determine which target to hit, if minion stacked? completely random? so if 60 minions, your char is not neccessarily the 61st target?

[LeegionOnEast]

I have Fury wolf as of now. It tanks a whole lot of Hammers with nice FHR. (9k life, 3 frame FHR). However, I need to use my eBOTDGPA setup, which and I use FRW boots. I still don't kill efficiently enough.

I will think about the Windie. That might work.

What about teleporting trappers? Teleport around and draw them into the trap field? I was thinking about usinng the Shadow Master/Warrior to cast my spells, while I just teleport around. I know, sounds stupid. Who knows how it would work.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

I have Fury wolf as of now. It tanks a whole lot of Hammers with nice FHR. (9k life, 3 frame FHR). However, I need to use my eBOTDGPA setup, which and I use FRW boots. I still don't kill efficiently enough.

I will think about the Windie. That might work.

What about teleporting trappers? Teleport around and draw them into the trap field? I was thinking about usinng the Shadow Master/Warrior to cast my spells, while I just teleport around. I know, sounds stupid. Who knows how it would work.

Pure Trappers are easily negated. If anything they will grief charge you. This is why bowers won't work.

I do not know much about hyb sins, they seem to fare better. Ask rabbitz, arbe, hapasn, whoever.

[theredpredator]

All i know is..

If u see a hammerdin, nk him whenever u can. The best hammerdin is a gone hammerdin if u know what im sayin

[bogie]

You will always be the last guy in line to be hit, as the game places ALL of your minions above you, so all of your minions have to die out (or at least the revives to break the stack) before the hammerdin can hit you.

Note: Larger Revives are needed for minion stacking to be truly effective.

Edit: Im still voting for meleemancer for underdog, they may not look it, but they have the potential to be very good anti-casters (except hammerdins :cry: )

[bobofuzzlymunky]

noone said this? jeez....

2fpa claw block bearsin!

sera's had 2k+ venom (over .4 secs mind you)
*2*fpa, the bear was twitching dammit!
blocked 3/4 hammers i threw. (claw block DOES block hammers)


killed me every time unless i tele'd in circles around her.

[Arbedark]

noone said this? jeez....

2fpa claw block bearsin!

sera's had 2k+ venom (over .4 secs mind you)
*2*fpa, the bear was twitching dammit!
blocked 3/4 hammers i threw. (claw block DOES block hammers)


killed me every time unless i tele'd in circles around her.

Then you were doing very badly.

Simple desynch hammer will easily take care of any non-tele character...

Hammerdin = one of the hardest duels for any sin pretty much. With T-Gods (or hotspur if you're fire), it takes an ungodly amount of fire power to take them down. If they are good desynchers you are bound to get hit with tele-whirls and tele-talon only works if you play extremely defensively.

[akumaxyz]

seriously the only best char can kill a hdin is another one or a boner, all other chars you use he can bm you with pots, those 2 chars are the only one can kill fast enough.

[elmek]

seriously the only best char can kill a hdin is another one or a boner, all other chars you use he can bm you with pots, those 2 chars are the only one can kill fast enough.
Windy is a no.1 hdin killer. Period.

[akumaxyz]

Windy is a no.1 hdin killer. Period.

sorry hdin with grief pb> windy, i like to see how you get 163 fcr with max block with legit items you will simply get charge lock to death if he gets one on you. if it comes to worst he can just wear marrows and tap your wolfs :prop:

[LeegionOnEast]

I was thinking of the trapper idea...and I came up with a kind of cool build. I call it Big Brother.

Basically, you cast Shadow Warrior. You teleport around when needed, and let the Shadow Warrior cast Traps/MBs. I would most likely use dual Jade Talons and max Weapon Block. I don't know how the points would look...

20 Claw Block
20 Mind Blast
20 Wake of Fire
20 Wake of Inferno
20 Fire Blast
20 Shadow Warrior

Maybe I could use Dragon Flight to teleport instead of wearing Enigma? I'm not familiar with Assassin skills, do I need to target something...and is Flight right or left click? Also, which would I max last?

[Arbedark]

I was thinking of the trapper idea...and I came up with a kind of cool build. I call it Big Brother.

Basically, you cast Shadow Warrior. You teleport around when needed, and let the Shadow Warrior cast Traps/MBs. I would most likely use dual Jade Talons and max Weapon Block. I don't know how the points would look...

20 Claw Block
20 Mind Blast
20 Wake of Fire
20 Wake of Inferno
20 Fire Blast
20 Shadow Warrior

Maybe I could use Dragon Flight to teleport instead of wearing Enigma? I'm not familiar with Assassin skills, do I need to target something...and is Flight right or left click? Also, which would I max last?

That is possibly THE worst build you could have come up with for dealing with hammerdins...:rolleyes:

[elmek]

sorry hdin with grief pb> windy, i like to see how you get 163 fcr with max block with legit items you will simply get charge lock to death if he gets one on you. if it comes to worst he can just wear marrows and tap your wolfs :prop:
There are ways to instantly remove life tap off the wolves you know...
Also gl with fast switching and desynching hammers vs a good windy. Getting charge lock isn't also easy, you know.
Having 163 fcr I do not need max block.

[akumaxyz]

its hard but once you get one druid is good as dead, and yes recasting wolfs will get rid of tap, but a hdin with grief have a very high chance of killing windys.

[primerib]

You will always be the last guy in line to be hit, as the game places ALL of your minions above you, so all of your minions have to die out (or at least the revives to break the stack) before the hammerdin can hit you.

Note: Larger Revives are needed for minion stacking to be truly effective.

Edit: Im still voting for meleemancer for underdog, they may not look it, but they have the potential to be very good anti-casters (except hammerdins :cry: )

Psn dagger will be slow, blockable, and interruptable.

[LeegionOnEast]

That is possibly THE worst build you could have come up with for dealing with hammerdins...:rolleyes:

That was my underdog idea!

And it wouldn't be THAT bad at killing Hammerdins...atleast I can block the Hammers!

[Arbedark]

That was my underdog idea!

And it wouldn't be THAT bad at killing Hammerdins...atleast I can block the Hammers!

All it does is add 60% on to your life.

Assuming you have 3k Life that adds another 1800 onto that, making the equivilant life to be 4800. Which will get taken out in 3 hammers absolute tops.

Desynch Hammerdin > Trapper.

Hybrids fare better, but the Hammerdin still has massive advantage.

So your SM Trapper idea would be at an even large disadvantage. In fact I could safely say that it simply wont work :sad2:

[mythos]

I was thinking of the trapper idea...and I came up with a kind of cool build. I call it Big Brother.

Basically, you cast Shadow Warrior. You teleport around when needed, and let the Shadow Warrior cast Traps/MBs. I would most likely use dual Jade Talons and max Weapon Block. I don't know how the points would look...

20 Claw Block
20 Mind Blast
20 Wake of Fire
20 Wake of Inferno
20 Fire Blast
20 Shadow Warrior

Maybe I could use Dragon Flight to teleport instead of wearing Enigma? I'm not familiar with Assassin skills, do I need to target something...and is Flight right or left click? Also, which would I max last?

is this a typo? or can you level past 99 now?

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

Realistically speaking, that sin is too much an underdog, its like a sewer rat.

I'd say something like ES/Enchant Bear sorc is about the minimum I'd make for underdogness : effectiveness ratio.

[LeegionOnEast]

is this a typo? or can you level past 99 now?

I always write 20 when I mean max. Sorry, just my own habits. One would be maxed last. You do have more than 99 skill points.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

I always write 20 when I mean max. Sorry, just my own habits. One would be maxed last. You do have more than 99 skill points.

12 extras from skill quests. 98 + 12 = 110.

[Lyrs]

A more viable "underdog" char would be a ES Enchant Sorc using a Faith Merc.

[Uchiha Sasuke]

Underdogs have no chance... the reason cookie-cutters exist is because they work.

For anti hdin, go windy. High damage, and a good enough stack makes for a hard time... unless they can someone manage to make crazy hammerfields, desynch, get a namelock on you with charge, et cetera.

[HappyAssassin]

All a hammerdin usually needs to kill windies is a little smite skill. Fortunately, most of them aren't that smart, so windy is a good anti-build.

Just make sure whatever attack you use can't be negated. Hammerdins are the most stack prone chars in D2.

[akumaxyz]

those class wont kill any hdin who bms unless you are teaming him, yes not even wind druids as they can escape befor you can even kill them, the good ones who bm are much harder in pub.

easiest time with those who bm is a boner with magic immune revives.