WW/Trapper Hybrid Guide v1.2 (For sticky) [Archive]

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:07

Intro
Hi everyone, I’m Ollie, and I play on US West. Since I started playing Diablo 2, I’ve primarily played Assassins. I love the class, especially its versatility. I feel that over my time playing, I’ve played enough assassins, experimented with enough builds, and gained sufficient skill and experience to offer up this guide to help other players use the class to its potential. I don’t claim to be the absolute best with this character, but I am one of the best, and this guide is based on a very long period of testing, building, testing and rebuilding. This is a PvP build for patch 1.11. My goal with building this character is to make an assassin that can take on the vast majority of duelers out there.

An important note here. I say that I’m building this character. I do NOT take credit for creating this build, it’s been around longer than I’ve been playing, and many very skilled players contributed to its making, I’ll give credit at the end.

The goal of this build is to combine the trapper and whirlwind assassin builds. A trapper with any skill (i.e. not one who sits in his traps and hopes the enemy dies on their own) uses mind blast to hold the opponent in place while the traps do their work. Most of the best trappers I’ve seen also trap aggressively, using traps to close with the enemy and keep pressure on them. They can also switch to a defensive style of play, slowly wearing the opponent down if the foes is too dangerous to stay close to. Whirlwind assassins on the other hand have a pretty simplistic game plan. They Dflight to the target and demolish it with a bramble fueled whirlwind. Whirlwind assassins (the good ones) use Wake of Fire traps and mind blast also, to stun the enemy, reduce their block and make them an easy target. Many (some would consider them the best ones) have adopted a play style using Enigma’s teleport and traps with mind blast to cripple the opponent with stun lock while still effectively whirlwinding their targets to death. This last build provided some inspiration for this one. These are simplistic versions of these classes, this character is capable of much more than simply emulating these styles.

I understand that it’s the practice of many guide writers to include a list of acronyms. Here’s mine:

AR - Attack Rating
BoS- Burst of Speed
CoS- Cloak of Shadows
CoA - Crown of Ages
CTA - Call to Arms
DF - Dragon Flight
PDR – Physical Damage Reduction
FHR - Fast Hit Recovery
GC - Grand Charm
FCR- Faster Cast Rate
IAS - Increased Attack Speed
LS - Lightning Sentry
MB - Mind Blast
OW - Open Wounds
PLR - Poison Length Reduction
Res - Resistance
SC - Small Charm
SM - Shadow Master
WB – Weapon Block
WW - Whirlwind

What you will achieve with this build:

Offensively
1. 4 Frame Whirlwind. This means that you have the most possible hit checks when your opponent is within range.
2. 6k Damage LS, good damage considering that you also have a strong whirlwind. This can go as high as 8k, depending on gear.
3. Good Open Wounds, critical against casters/barbs.
4. A 3k Whirlwind. This is what your screen shows. The actual damage is higher due to the double poison application bug.
5. Satisfactory attack rating (this is a tough part of the build).
6. 65% Fast Cast Rate, enough to mind blast effectively and teleport quickly.
7. 9 Frame Trap Laying.

Defensively
1. Over 3000 life without lifers, much more with them. 4.2k is the functional maximum.
2. Max res in hell after losing 30 Res all to the Anya bug.
3. 50% PDR after fade.
4. 58% or higher Claw Block (this is huge).
5. A strong shadow master to minion stack, cause diversion, etc.

Now, how do we get these numbers?

This is the meat and potatoes of the guide, the items and skills. Afterwards comes the smoke and mirrors, the strategy section.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:09

Character Building
Skills
The skills for this build are pretty straight forward. Here they go:

Traps Tree
1 Fire Blast
1+ Shock Web (All of your remaining skill points go here, around 12 usually, can be almost maxed if you level to 99, though that is a waste of time for most players)
20 Charged Bolt Sentry
20 Lightning Sentry
20 Death Sentry

Shadow Tree
1 Claw Mastery
1 Psychic Hammer
1 Burst of Speed
1 Cloak of Shadows
1-5 Fade
1 Weapon Block
1 Shadow Warrior
2 Mind Blast
1 Shadow Master
20 Venom

Martial Tree
1 Dragon Flight (and prerequisites, only important if you can’t get it on a claw.)

These skills allow us to have strong LS and Venom with our WW. There are several glaring weaknesses in the skill set. These will be covered in gear. Its worth noting that my original character had 20 points in Claw Mastery. After dueling for a while with her, I found that her traps were too weak. I have experimented with my current character using these skills and bramble sin gear against other bramble sins, and I’ve found that there isn’t a huge difference between the two chars. This means that it really is possible to get strong traps and barely sacrifice anything in terms of whirlwind ability.

A note about Mind Blast. Having the extra point in there causes your shadow master to cast it much more often. This is quite useful, as she does it at extreme range, and being an AI she never misses. If you want this feature, put the points in. If you feel you won’t use it much, by all means save the point for a trap synergy.

Stats
Base or 40 Strength
Base or 35 Dex
Max Vitality
Base Energy

Keep in mind that these stats are ball park, I recommend leveling to over 75 before adding any stats at all so that your torch and anni will save you Strength. These can change by +/- 5 points or so depending on charms. If you are a real perfectionist, level to 90 for the max Strength on Enigma before equipping gear. With this setup you can switch to Bramble/Shako/Gores in certain situations. Keep in mind that if you use a Circlet as opposed to CoA, you can use less Str and thus have more vitality. 167 is your new target, Dancers are still the superior boots for this build.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:12

Gear
Okay, here we go. This character is expensive. No way around it, you must have great gear to perform at a high level. If you have Bartuc’s instead of Fury, you will not win much. If you have Waterwalks instead of Dancers, you will not win much. If you can’t use one of the recommended helms in particular, you will notice a serious reduction in either survivability or speed. Keep this in mind when gearing up. I’d like to recommend cheaper options, but this is a PvP hybrid, and to make a truly good hybrid you need to squeeze every last point out of your skills and gear. I happen to know that with a little help and 2 weeks of hard trading, a player of US West has geared up a satisfactory hybrid.

Helm: The choice of helm makes a big difference for your build. Either a Circlet or Crown of Ages are the two main choices. With a Circlet, you hit 65% FCR easily, you have more skill points, and you can have mods like Visionary which will help your AR. You will have slightly higher traps. If you use a Crown of Ages, you will need a 15%+ fcr ammy with sin skills to compensate and get your break point. This is tough to find. I personally use a Circlet. Your circlet must have the following mods: +2 Sin skills, 20% FCR, 15+ Res All. After that, look for visionary, life, mana, Str boost, an extra socket, etc. Put a 15/15 (15IAS/15 Resist All) jewel in your circlet. If you use a CoA, get a 2 Soc and socket it with a 15/15 jewel (15IAS/15 Resist all) and a -15/15 (-15REQ/15 Resist All).
Finally, I can’t write a guide for a Ghost build without mentioning 1.08 Valkerie Wing. This powerful helm gives 30 to FCR, FHR, Faster R/W and IAS. It includes no skills or resists, but it allows you much more leeway with your other gear. Also, if you socket it with a Shael Rune, it will allow you to use an extra 2 Lifers in place of FHR GCs. If you use 40 lifers, it’s quite a large HP boost. This helm is heavily duped and may poof, so keep this in mind when deciding whether or not to use it.

Amulet: A few choices here. You can either use a godly crafter assassin amulet with 15%+ FCR and +2 skills, resistances, other good mods, or you can go with a unique ammy if you have a Circlet. Maras is a strong option with +skills, +res, +5 stats, all good things. Highlord’s Wrath is also a good amulet, with a +skill, Light res, and its big Deadly Strike bonus. If you use Highlord’s and Fury, you will do good physical damage from all the deadly strike. My personal preference is Maras, it’s more well rounded.

Armor: Enigma. Mine is a Dusk Shroud, either Dusk or Mage are good choices.

Boots: Shadow Dancers. These give you the highest possible kick damage on Dflight, +2 Shadow Skills (important in this build), FHR, and an awesome Dex boost. Since we’re already building for CoA, the Strength requirement isn’t important. Even if you go the circlet route, these boots save you points in Fade (+Shadow skills), as well has helping a lot to get good FHR.

Belt: Arachnid’s Mesh. This is for skills, FCR, and that’s it. The other option is a 15% DR Verdungos Hearty Coil. Using the 2/15+ ammy and the Dungos is one of the best options, it allows you to have maxed DR without adding points to fade and ultimately costs only a little life and resists.

Gloves: Trang-Oul’s Claws. These phenomenal gloves practically make the build work. Note that their 25% bonus to poison damage actually works twice, once when the skill is cast and once when you hit a target with a melee attack. If you take these off, you will take a BIG hit in your poison damage.

Rings: 1 Raven Frost is a must. A fast cast ring with Mana, Life, Resists, and Dex or Str is the best other option. If you use a Valk, you can use a second Raven (nice to have), or a powerful Dual stat ring.

Claws: This is a claw assassin, and your choice of claw is very important. Chaos is a must obviously. It should be your offhand claw. Your Chaos should have +Venom, +Lightning Sentry and +DF on it. For your primary claw, there are really two options. A Fury claw with +Venom and +Lightning Sentry is a very strong option. If you really need the last skill point, look for one with Wake of Fire or Shadow Master. Also, try to get a Fool’s Claw with 40% IAS and good +skills as well. There are really two sets of mods to look for on a Fool’s claw. If you intend to use the Fools only as a switch item to get high AR against heavy melee, then look for one with IAS, high % ED, and 2 Sockets. Another option is to use the Fool’s claw as your primary claw all the time, and switch to Fury only for highly defensive opponents. In this case, look for a Fools with good +skills first and foremost, then IAS, then ED, then sockets, etc. Ideally, you should use a claw that gives +4 or more to your Lightning Sentry, as this will give you powerful traps. I use a Fool’s claw about 90% of the time on my Assassin. Try to get all these claws in Runic Talon. After that, the best options in order are Feral Claws.

I’ll provide a little information about claw speed. Basically, you need over 14 IAS on both your claws to get the highest WW speed break. This is a combination of the weapon’s base speed and the IAS that is actually on it. Suwayyahs have a base speed of 0, so they must have a minimum of 14% IAS (in practice, 20) to hit the BP. This is not a problem if you use Chaos/Fury, because both claws have a very high IAS bonus anyway. On a Fool’s claw, it must have this IAS. On a Feral or Runic claw, you don’t need an IAS for the WW breakpoint. Now, there are other breakpoints that should be taken into account. The speed with which you lay traps is important to your ability to stun lock. This is based on your claw speed. If you use a Runic Talon on your primary claw spot with 40% IAS, you will hit the highest trap breakpoint if you socket a 15% IAS jewel in your helm.

Charms: These will make or break your character. 9 Shadow GCs, 2 with 12% FHR, the rest with life if you can or Strength if you cannot (a 6 Strength charm is like a 18 lifer). Torch, Anni, +Life SCs or +Res SCs, which ever you prefer. Ideally’ 5 Res SCs with Life. 1 5% FHR SC to hit the 86 FHR Breakpoint. The 9 Shadow Charms are an absolute must.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:14

Strategy
Basics
I assume your dueling in pubs. If not, most of this still applies, ignore references to heavy sorb, etc. I also assume that you’re playing in a relatively friendly manner. If you want to NK a pub into oblivion with this build, you can, and your traps are certainly nasty against naked chars. I won’t include advice on this however, mostly because I’m a poor NKer due to lack of practice.

A word on BM (bad manners). A lot of duelers seem to abide by a fairly arbitrary (and very variable) set of rules. Basically, BM is whatever anyone doesn’t like, so it’s a pretty useless term. Heavy absorb, naked kills, town guarding and using hacks to improve playing skill are the general forms of BM most commonly practiced. I mention them because there are somewhat important to consider when building a character. This is not a BM oriented build. It doesn’t do well against stacked absorb, it doesn’t do well when an opponent heals often. If you are looking for a character that thrives in such an environment, this one is not for you. That said, my personal feeling on BM is this: If an opponent continues a practice against you after you ask them nicely to stop or unhostile, then do whatever you feel like to beat them. Get your merc, load a belt of juvs, Iron Maiden them, whatever, and then NK them till they leave. Another option is to just leave and find other duelers whose set of rules is more in line with yours. Either way, if someone is trying to ruin your fun, you have every right to ruin theirs, and this build CAN do it.
A word on absorb. A heavily sorbing Smiter or BvC is your toughest duel by far. These classes are tough for WWsins in general, add in your relatively low Ar and lack of bramble and you are in trouble. You actually cant use your traps much to stun at all because they will provide healing for the enemy. A key advantage is that that they must sacrifice good gear for absorb. This can be as big a difference as CoA for Kiras. Go to fire trap for stun, but try a light trap when they go back to town and come out again. If you stop using light traps, they may switch back to the superior gear thinking that you’ve been faked out. You can sometimes get them with their sorb off and their proverbial pants down. This is a situation in which you can use judgment. Personally, I sometimes nk a player who is heavily sorbing and acting in an offensive manner. If they are nice and sorbing, then do what you feel is best.
This is also the reason that you have bramble and WWsin gear in your stash. The bramble will give you a large bonus to your venom and increase your chances, especially against smiters. There is a trick with switching this though. You must allow venom to run out before you equip bramble and cast it again. There is a game mechanic that causes a significant loss in damage if you equip the bramble while your venom is still active and cast venom again. Also, be careful in bramble mode, because most strong casters can take huge advantage of your lack of mobility and nail you from range while your inadequate Dflight miss-fires trying to hit them.
Finally consider having an Act 2 Holy Freeze Merc with Infinity, Fortitude and Vampire Gaze that you can bring in if a sorber is really giving you trouble. Consider that a seriously trap locked opponent can actually be physically hit by the Merc, often for huge damage from his powerful weapon. My Infinity happens to be an ethereal Cryptic Axe, for very high damage, especially since he wears Fortitude. Always carry gold (take some from a pker if you run out, they’d do the same to you) and stash it at a non Act 1 waypoint, in case you need potions or your Merc.

Right, down to business. You will duel in two modes, offensive and defensive. You have to be able to transition between these two modes easily. If you can only play defensively in particular, you will quickly run into people who refuse to play your game. Generally though, you will find that you play offensively against casters and defensively against melee. This does not mean that you will only trap against melee and Whirlwind against casters. You need to use all your attacks, Traps, Whirlwind, Mind Blast and Dragon Flight against all your enemies. You have a shadow, as well as your own high defensive attributes to protect you. You should have relatively high life. All of these things add up to make you a daunting prospect for duelers. I’ll outline the templates here, and then reference them as I explain class by class strategies. I’d like to emphasize that the best way to get good with this char is not to read my notes on strategy but rather to go out and duel. If you are having consistent problems against a particular build then come look at the notes. Keep in mind that you will likely encounter people who are very skilled and above average in particular builds. Against these people, your own skill and strong build will be your best allies. Just remember that they may be just as intimidated by your unusual character as you are by theirs. For example, I recently (in a pub) ran into the first and only Trapper/Kicker I’ve ever seen who’s char was actually strong. This resulted in me losing repeatedly until I figured out new tactics. Because I kept dueling him and didn’t descend into the “you’re cheap, I could beat you except _______” mind set, I not only started to kill his char, I became better at dueling against trappers.
The following will cover skill use, templates and finally class specific strategies.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:15

Skill Use
Hotkeys
When this guide was in the critique phase, I received a lot of questions about hotkeys. Here are the ones I use, make up your own or copy mine, but use a setup that is comfortable for you. Practice with it a lot.

A = Whirlwind
S = Teleport
D = Lightning Sentry
F= Mind Blast
G = Wake of Fire
W = Dragon Flight
R = Cloak
F7-F12 = Prebuff spells

Mind Blast
This skill is very important to trappers, and it is very important to you also. You must use this skill a lot, and you must get used to hitting an oncoming opponent with it with one click. If a smiter is in your face, don’t mb him, your cast animation will get you hit. If he’s a click of his own away, use it. Often they misjudge the distance and miss while getting stunned. Mind Blast is also excellent because it is a phenomenal finisher. It deals a small amount of damage, one point of which generally gets through and kills an enemy at one life. You will frequently end up with enemies at one life, and mb provides a safe and effective finisher.

Dragon Flight
This skill is very powerful and useful. You can hit casters quite hard with it while they are running. The trick is to enter the flight animation when you are on their screen. Keep in mind that it is slow and easily interrupted. Never Dflight at a caster when they are casting at you and you are in immediate danger of being hit. The 24 frame animation will get you killed. Still, while it has a shorter range than Mind Blast to Teleport Whirlwind, it auto aims and hits quickly when you land. Use it well, and remember that you can kill highly defensive casters with only flight and open wounds.

Whirlwind
This is one of your most important skills. It takes practice to get used to the bugs and eccentricities of whirlwind. This skill has a few important attributes. Firstly, it is defensive in nature. You can move with it while maintaining your block. Furthermore, you can attack with it, by whirling through or next to your opponent. It is preferable to whirlwind and “clip” your opponent instead of passing through them. If possible, try to catch a caster in continuous hits with a “triangle” whirlwind, where you execute a neat triangle around them and constantly hit them. The techniques for whirlwind are:

1) Pass: You teleport on an opponent, whirlwind them, and teleport away.

2) Clipping: You catch the opponent with the edge of the whirlwind. This works best against smiters and other melee characters. Keep in mind that if you are moving away from the enemy whirlwind will auto hit, ignoring defense.

3) Triangles: This is similar to clipping, but you try to keep the enemy in the center of a triangle and cause them to be locked up in either hit reaction or block. It is a tough technique to learn. Search Google for “Smash BvC” and you will find some excellent demonstrations of a triwhirl. Keep in mind that your assassin moves slower while in whirlwind, and has less range, so your triangles generally need to be tighter than a barb's. However, a barb has only his Whirlwind to keep the opponent trapped, if you are playing right, you have then stunned by traps as well.

4) Straight: In this technique, you whirlwind straight through your opponent. Only useful against barbs in certain situations or against casters if you are still learning triangles. If you can triwhirl with relative efficiency, you pretty much never need to use a Straight whirl except in WW vs. WW.

Lastly, keep in mind that whirlwind can cause you major problems. This generally happens when you execute a “long” whirlwind, where you are in the animation for an extended period of time. This makes you vulnerable, unable to stop, cast spells, dodge or prevent the enemy from escaping. Avoid this by keeping your cursor in the middle of your screen when using whirlwind and never doing a namelock-whirlwind.

Lightning Sentry
Lightning Sentry shoots in a line. If you lay traps in a field, try to go through the middle of them and then to one side. Avoid perfectly circular trap fields. They reduce the number of hits. Remember, your opponent is likely moving slowly in the field. Another tactic is to lay all of your traps in the same place. This will produce a very strong extra large bolt of lightning. Use such a technique when you lay your traps behind you, as you can whirlwind towards the traps and get a concentrated hit on the enemy at least once. With this build, you don’t lay traps very fast. Replace them one at a time against melee opponents, and keep this fact in mind when dueling in general.

Wake of Fire
This trap is useful for stunning. It stuns very well, and, combined with lightning sentries, can completely lock up the enemy. Use it against Hammerdins, Zons of all types and Necromancers and you will get the most of it. Only cast one or two though, and remember to mind blast to make them effective. They count towards your trap total and will reduce your damage output if you use too many of them. This will also be your main trap against an opponent who over-absorbs you.

Cloak of Shadows
Cast this on your opponent to lower defense. This works best against low def melee opponents like whirlwind assassins and some barbarians. Also, use it to reduce the effectiveness of Necromancer summons and Druid summons as well, as they will be blind when it is cast on them.

Teleport
This is a very important skill. It allows you to keep your block up while moving. It also causes your shadow to stack with you and absorb attacks that would hit you otherwise. Finally, it is a faster closing mechanism than dragon flight, has no cool down time, can land right on your enemy through namelock, and, with good hotkey speed, you can exit teleport in a whirlwind on your opponent. Learn the mechanics of teleport, get a feel for how fast you do it, how far you can do it, and for casting it from a mind blast namelock and you will have a powerful tool in dueling. It can also be used evasively, to dodge, move just out of the way of a whirlwind, or retreat quickly.

Guided Arrow
This skill is important if you choose to use Widowmaker. You cannot fill the Blood Moor with arrows the way an Amazon can, at least not with Fade active. Pump off a few arrows and keep moving. Use this skill to make a highly defensive opponent go offensive (such as a run-away hammerdin) or to deny an area of the map to an opponent. A useful technique against casters who jump on you (some types of sorceress) is to fire off 4-5 GAs, then switch to your claws and teleport along their flight path. If you do this right, they will land in your GAs in much the same way as you land in a necro’s spirit cloud on a bad teleport.

Claw Block
First of all, this isn’t a skill you actively use, but it is very important. A high level claw block is an extremely useful asset, and if you play correctly it will allow you to virtually double your effective life against all attacks, as it blocks pretty much everything (even smite). This skill does have a flaw though. It will not check if you are moving. If you are teleporting, whirlwinding, or standing still, you get 58-60% block on all attacks, with the exception of a few rarely druid spells. Run, and it goes away. So watch your running and avoid it if you may be hit.

Shadow Master
This is a valuable skill. The master will stack with you, taking hits that would otherwise hit you. It is vital against amazons and necromancers in particular. You will also notice that your high level master is sometimes immune to elemental damage. Use this to your advantage if it happens, but don’t count on it. Finally, the Shadow Master can be used more actively as a form of defense. Cast it in trap fields to draw fire, put it ahead of you to draw arrows, or cast it between you and an FoH pally to take his first hit. If your Shadow Master is killed, recast her, but keep in mind that you won’t be able to Dragon Flight for a few seconds after you cast it, so don’t do so if you think you’ll need flight in the next three seconds. This can really screw you over if you forget about it.

Prebuffs
I generally cast my skills from my gear on this build. I first cast Battle Command to boost my skills, then Venom, Fade and Shadow Master. Finally I cast Battle Orders for the life boost on myself and my shadow. Strong prebuff claws with +3 Shadow Skills and +3 Venom are useful to this character, but really unnecessary.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:17

Templates
Offensive
In this template you are chasing your opponent. You will do this by means of teleport and Dflight. Generally, you are chasing a fast caster. You must get on their screen and initiate Dflight. If you Dflight when they are off screen you will kick slowly in place. If the caster in question is a good bone necro, you probably just died because the spirits just caught you. If, however, you start the kick sequence while on their screen, you will flight them even when they are off your screen. This is the ideal way to hit them, because they just landed from their tele and can’t squeak out from under your kick with their fast cast.
You must remember to trap while you are chasing a caster. You should be dropping a trail of traps behind you, and to the sides. Try to make a caster back track though your traps and get hit. Your shadow will mind blast them while you tele, but you should also try to hit them with a few when they stop to attack or come too close. If you can, keep name lock from your mind blast and teleport to them by switching keys with the mouse button still held down. If you are lucky, you can exit on top of them and whirlwind, possibly clipping them and getting venom in.
Against the very best casters, this will be a long duel. You will be relying on Open Wounds to wear them down, while hoping that they catch a trap and get stunned long enough for you to land a killing blow. Keep a lot of mana pots on your belt. If they try to tank, lay a trap near them and make sure they are mind blasted. They will be seriously stunned if you get this right. Finally, and I feel a little ridiculous having to say it, but keep your Whirlwinds as short as possible against casters. Good casters generally get you when you whirl too long.

Defensive
In this template you are waiting for the enemy to come to you. You lay a trap field and then actively defend the area you are in. This does not mean you lay traps and stand in them. You must be mind blasting, teleporting and doing all the things a trapper does. You can walk your traps towards the enemy to make them come close, you can tele towards them and trap, but generally you are staying near your traps at all times. Do not allow yourself to get far from your traps or you lose your advantage.
This is where the build shines. For most trappers, getting caught is a terrible thing. For you, it means you get to hit the enemy very hard and keep them in place. A mind blasted enemy getting hit by traps and whirlwinded is in trouble. Usually about two seconds of it, then they are dead. The basic technique of this is simple. Make your Whirlwind down the line that the traps fire on. This will ensure a large number of hits from both attacks. Once your enemy starts to get wise to one tactic, switch. You can mix and match as much as you want also. Remember to mind blast. Remember to bring your trap field with you if you chase a retreating enemy. Keep the concept of keeping the enemy in your traps shots and you won’t go far wrong.
Finally, a strong offense will always trump a good defense, the very best duelers are aggressive, and if it’s at all possible to go offensive, then do it.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:18

Gear Switching
I use a number of gear switches on my character. These can be as simple as Arachnid’s for Tgods, but in my case it can include a complete transition to Bramble assassin gear, as well as the ability to use Widowmaker, stack a lot of resists, or alter my Claw setup in several ways to beat a variety of opponents. There are two important things to mention here. One, in your standard “pub” setup, you can beat pretty much anyone. The best BvCs, BvBs, Smiters and Fist of Heaven’s paladins basically require gear switches for a good chance to beat them. Two, gear switching is a route you choose to go. You will need to build in more hard dexterity and strength to do it. My Assassin has 3.6k life, she could have as much as 3.8-4k in the same gear if it wasn’t for the Dex investments I’ve made. A lot of pure CoA sins with good gear and Enigma built in (this means no strength, no dex) top out at 4.2k life, which is quite nice. However, also consider that life isn’t everything, and my Nekisi has been fully capable of beating other hybrids with much more life than her.
Important gear switch items are:

The Bramble Switch
This is not one item. You will swap out the following items: Helm, Belt, Armor, Switch Shield, and Boots. Helm should be Shako or Giant Skull, depending on opponent. Shako is better against Barbs, Giant Skull against Smiters. These are the two opponents for which you should be making this switch. It is also effective against aggressive Hammerdins. Boots should be Gore Riders, Belt should be Verdungo’s, Armor should be Bramble, and Switch Shield will need to go to Lidless Wall, since Spirit’s Strength requirement is so high. Shako should have a 5/5 Poison Facet socketed in it, Giant Skull should have either BerBer or BerJah.

Widowmaker
I can just swap out my BO gear for this. This is a very useful tool against Barbarians without teleport, Necromancers, Hammerdins (especially), but can be effective against everything. You’ll need to BO, then switch items, or just go without the BO if you don’t prebuff or aren’t allowed. Using Burst of Speed greatly increases the power of Widowmaker, but it also makes you very vulnerable. In fact, using this weapon is generally a tricky business. On your bow switch, you cannot block at all and your traps are much lower. Be careful not to get hit with the bow out. Always cast traps with your claws, always move with your claws unless you are sure it is safe to move a little with the bow. Finally, try to shoot on the move, take advantage of your teleport speed.
Using Widowmaker effectively makes this build all the more powerful, as you can engage the enemy at long, medium, and close range, as opposed to merely medium and close range without the bow. It is also a very hard technique to master, since this build has enough hotkeys without constant weapon switching. A few item switches pair well with Widow. On is to use a Highlord’s amulet for the additional Deadly Strike and IAS, both of which are nice. Also, the Dracul’s Grasp gloves go great with this bow, since they add plenty of Open Wounds, and can even cast life tap. If you want to get very intricate with your weapon switches, fire off a volley of arrows, then switch so that your Fury claw is on. The OW on Fury will afflict opponents hit by your arrows. Tough to pull off, but very satisfying.

Resists
Basically, it’s good to be able to put on a lot of resists sometimes. Some characters seriously deplete your resists, which will be generally just over max in Hell mode (considering the Anya Bug). A Kira’s Tiara with 65-70 res all and an Um rune is very useful. I also carry a Jade Talon, socketed with a Shael rune, for major stack against FoH pallies and Infinity users if I want it. A useful aspect of Jade Talon is that you can keep your 65 Fcr with it on. If you equip a Jade Talon, make sure you switch your claws so that Chaos is in the primary slot. Jade is a terrible claw to hit things with. I also carry a Tgods, although I try not to use it much. I have no other absorb in my stash, I think it’s a crutch. If you want Hotspurs, Wisps, Dwarf Stars, a LoLo CoA or such things in your stash, go for it, but know that you can win without it. If you consistently beat a caster with absorb, but lose without it, you are doing something wrong.

Fast Cast Ammy/ Circlet
This is basically so that if you want to, you can keep your 65 Fcr against an opponent and change an important piece of gear. Switch your helm or ammy for this item, and be able to use a different ring, belt or ammy/helm.

102 Fcr
This is the cast breakpoint above the standard 65 that you aim for. It is attainable with 2 Fcr Rings, a Fcr Amulet, your Arachnid’s, Trang’s and a helm with more than 20 Fcr. There are two helms in the game that have this. One is Griffon’s Eye, which besides the cast rate has terrible mods. The other is Valk. This is really only a useful thing to get against Necromancers, since you cannot maintain resists in this setup. With 102 Fcr, you can stay right in a necro’s face all the time, they literally can’t run away as long as you stay on them. I’ve only used this once or twice against the best necros I’ve dueled, and as of this writing it is still a technique that hasn’t been fully explored by me.

Tanking
This is occasionally useful, especially in Sin vs. Sin dueling, when you just want to out muscle the opponent. I find it is most effective in a hybrid vs. hybrid duel where absorb is being used, and traps effectiveness is seriously reduced. As a result, in such a duel, the ability to absorb WW hits becomes very important. This setup sacrifices speed for life. You equip Tgods, Shako and a BK ring if you have it, while keeping your enigma build. Basically, you will gain almost 400 life, because of the +3 to your BO (good for about 150 life), the + 125 or so on shako, and the +50 on BK, and the +20 Vitality on Tgods, while actually improving your WW damage and maintaining trap damage (the +3 skills will improve WW’s level and damage, also the poison Facet in your Shako is good for more damage).

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:19

Class Specific Strategies
Amazon
4 types here. They can all be strong, though you should do very well against them.
Bow: Offensive. Most of these are child’s play. Teleport to them, Whirlwind and they’re done. There are some very good ones, who have their attack speed and damage dialed, who are a tough prospect. Against these, assume that you’re whirlwind goes slower than their run speed. You must hit them while they stop to shoot. Use traps if you have an opening to trigger Evade and get a Dflight or tele-whirlwind in. They generally die quickly when you can actually hit them. If you play well, keep your whirlwinds tight, have good fhr (you do) and tele accurately, you should never lose to these. The most dangerous moment of this duel is when you transition from tele to Dflight, which has a much slower cast rate and can cause you to get locked in guided arrows. I generally tele exclusively unless they are running.

Bow/Spear: Offensive. This is a subset of the bow class, which uses an SS to block and defend with limited charged strike and fury to damage the enemy in this mode. They generally prefer to use the bow. Close quickly. If they run, tele ahead of them and trap, then try to box them in. You’re goal is to make them switch to a bow thinking they have space, then whirlwind them. They’re shield switch is weaker than a normal zon’s so if you can lock them up in traps and whirlwind you’ve as good as won. These zons tend to be quite skilled, so look out.

Charged Strike: Defensive. Most of these are easy. Just trap them with a mix of WoF and your trusty Lightning Sentry. Most have Tgods as a part of their build, so expect to kill them with whirlwind. The thing is, their usually excellent defense works against them and causes them to get locked easily. Wear your own Tgods and some extra res if you find that they can kill you in one or two hits. It’s worth mentioning that there are a lot of farcast zons around these days. Ignore everyone in the game whining about their farcast and focus on killing them because if can be done. Trap towards them from off their screen and then tele on them quickly and whirlwind. You can lock them while only taking 1-2 farcast hits. It’s worth noting that Tgods will not protect from farcast very well, but tgods + kiras will.

Poison: Offensive. Tele to them, in a non-linear pattern, trap and whirlwind them. Mostly an easy kill. Against the skilled ones, you must kill them quickly and keep them locked. Mind blast even if you feel like you’re not getting enough whirlwind hits. You can often keep them from delivering the killing hit even if you are at 1 hp. If they have a bow, tele on them quickly and hit them while they are on the bow switch. Often, even if they make the switch, it takes them a second to get their poison fields up. This is when you lock and kill them.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:20

Necromancers
3 Types here, with possible variations.
Bone: Offensive. By far the most common, Bone necros are also the most dangerous. Their spells are quite powerful and unresistable. Because of this, use Burst of Speed against a pure bone necro because it will give you fast trap laying. They also home in on you, which make them the most spammable spells in the game, along side frozen orb. They have tough defense up close, often having max block and full bone armor. They can teleport fast and hit high fast hit reaction breakpoints. These things mean that you must play carefully, but still be quick and aggressive. Trap at all times, as you can catch the necro and often the traps will do serious damage, as necros almost never absorb and often have sub-par resists. Do not chase them three times around the Blood More while they spam at you. It won’t work. Make them come to you. If they insist on running, well, they aren’t much of a threat then. Go back to dueling someone else.

When you catch them, do a short whirlwind and then run, or go for a Triwhirl for the kill. This largely depends on whether or not a bunch of spirits will catch up with you if you stay. I sometimes wear gores against necros for the additional open wounds. Your venom and OW go through Bone Armor. You will need to slowly bleed them. Rarely can you demolish a necro with whirlwind. If you get them on a trap while MB’d, whirlwind them very tight and hope that they don’t get lucky and escape. If they are still there when you leave whirlwind, try to mb them again and whirl again. A good necro will start casting bone spears while you whirlwind him, and these can kill you quickly. Luckily, you have the advantage up close, because your whirlwind can move in an arc while still hitting them. Many spears will miss because of this. You can also block their skills, and you are the only class that can do this. I consider this fact something of a responsibility to go after the necros, who generally dominate most pubs. If you can kill a good necro consistently, congratulate yourself. They are a very tough duel.

Summon: Offensive. Summon necros generally have a meat shield of larger-than-them monsters that they move around as a giant minion stack. They use much lower damage bone spells than bone necros, but they often use prison and curses as well. Your fade will help with the curses a lot, and most necros are not used to recasting as often as they will have to. The favorites are Iron Maiden, Amp and Decrepify. You can whirlwind a pack while you have Iron Maiden on you. I’m not sure why, but I’ve done it a lot. The trick here is to cast cloak of shadows to blind the minions, then repeatedly mind blast the necro pack and trap all around them, hopelessly stun locking and killing the minions while you whirlwind the necro. These are generally less hard than Bone necros.

Poison: Offensive. These guys need to come quite close to you to hit you. Use this to your advantage, and jump them when they do. Make a perimeter of traps, then tele on them when they come near and whirlwind-mb-trap them. You should win 90% of the time, even against the best geared ones. Accept that your life will go to one, try to kill their fire golem before this happens, and play very aggressively with your stun and you will beat them.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:22

Barbarians
Two types here really. Flexible barbarians will fit into one of these types depending on how they try to deal with you.

Barbarian vs. Melee: This barbarian uses a shield and a high damage weapon like grief. The ones who use Phoenix are more dangerous than those with Stormshield because they hit harder. Regardless, get ready for a long duel and trap them. They will whirlwind out of stunlock, but you can still hurt them a lot with traps. When you get them locked up, tele on them and whirl away quickly. You must have good ar to ensure a hit, because regardless of your high life and PDR they will hurt you a lot when they hit. Their block is better than yours, so you can’t straight whirlwind them. Try to lay traps along their line of whirlwind, keep them mindblasted and keep a trap or two near your own feet. Never try to tele whirlwind them when they are in whirlwind, you will die. These are difficult to beat but you can do it, certainly more effectively than a regular whirlwind assassin. If they sorb, go to your anti-sorb tactics.

Barbarian vs. Caster: These things are a serious threat. This is probably your hardest duel baring a powerful necro or perfectly made smiter. They generally carry a lot of sorb gear and use it liberally. They cannot block though. Their basic tactic is to teleport on you and whirlwind you with a huge damage duel wield whirlwind. You should watch for their leap or teleport (leap generally precedes teleport) and whirlwind before they start their whirlwind. You are hoping to hit them as they exit tele. Keep traps around you at all times. If they are nice and not sorbing, try to get them with traps and mind blast, then whirlwind them. They will whirlwind away, so when you land trap more and mind blast more. General trapper tactics, except you must always be ready to tele or whirlwind away when they get close. A tricked out one will be very tough to beat, but you can do it with practice. With this build, you will not be dominated by Barbs the way your WWsin sisters are.

Paladin
These guys are very diverse. They can be casters, powerful melee, a mix of the two and my personal favorites, Auradins. There are many types of hybrid pally, so it’s impossible to cover every variation within this guide. I’ll go with the main ones.

Hammerdin: Defensive, unless you absolutely must go Offensive. These can be either very easy or very tricky. You have limited defense in the form of claw block, but 2 hammers will generally kill you, certainly three. You must keep these paladins locked up with traps and mind blast while you fight them. Use BoS for this, because fast trapping is important against Hammerdins. Even one cast can seriously hurt you, so it behooves you to keep them very well locked. Even if they are sorbing your light, use it to tied them up, namelock and trap/mind blast, but NEVER namelock teleport on them. You should tele on ground to the bottom right of the paladin. Whirlwind them, but up and down this side, not triangle unless they are severely stunned. If they try to tele on you, whirlwind down, trap and start mind blasting. The toughest of these will try to desync you by charging around and dropping hammers at random. These hammers may or may not become invis also. Don’t chase these guys; just stay a bit out of their range and trap. If they screw up or tele, do a quick drive by whirlwind and tele away. Make them come to you, as they can run and spam forever and you will never hit them.

Auradin: Offensive. When I duel auradin’s my success is always based in part on lag. They basically just run away from you and you get hurt the whole time. I have no qualms about using an element of sorb. Also, wear your Kiras, it’ll help. If you have Jade Talon, put that on too. With this gear, they will hurt you slowly. Lock them with mind blast, mb away, throw some traps and wait till they get tripped up. Most of them you can just flight while they run around. Don’t worry if they take a while to kill, just keep on them, you can kill them with an OW hit and mind blast if necessary. If they use charge or zeal, this is tougher, but it also brings them near you, so mb them and whirlwind clip for the lock. The really dangerous ones use smite with grief and dream gear, and for these you need to be very careful. If they run, flight them and ww away to prevent them from locking you up in smite. Generally you will hurt these guys a lot, as their aura gear gives poor defensive attributes.

Smiter: Defensive. These are generally easy. Put out traps, whirlwind away from their smite, remember to mind blast. Simple. BUT, there are a few smiters who are really good, have tele smite skills, possibly Fist of Heavens with conviction available, big life and high speed attacks. These are beatable with standard tactics, but if they sorb your light switch to Bramble Gear. Put on Bramble, Dungos, Gores, Shako or BerBer Giant Skull if you have it. With this gear you can do high whirlwind damage and still force them to give up gear by trapping. Whirlwind carefully. You’ll find that the more you mb the better you do. Also, be careful mind blasting because your cast rate is lower now and they can nail you while you do it. You can offensively clip these guys, but only while they’re in a trap lock. Expect them to get out of lock quickly and never walk around. You should either be mind blasting or whirlwinding or trapping. The most dangerous part of this duel is often when your traps run out. Replace them one at a time or the pally will charge you dead. If tapped, whirlwind away in a straight line. Tap runs out quickly. If I find a pally is tapping me a lot, I’ll switch to Marrowwalks and use their charges to tap him. Mine lasts longer, and I can do it from namelock. Very useful.

Fist of Heavens: Offensive. These are tough. Wear your res stack gear and Tgods. Always have your shadow out. The teleporting kind is easy, just mb/trap/ww, but if they charge they are harder. Consider them like Auradins, except that they can hit hard only rarely and you’ll block a lot of their attacks. Try to get them open wounded, mind blast constantly and do namelock mind blast to teleport whirlwinds to get in hits.

In general, Paladins are hard opponents. Remember that attack rating is your friend, so if you have a fools use it, and never assume that a caster doesn’t have a Grief/HoZ smite available until you know they don’t.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:23

Druids
There are two real druid duelers. I’ve seen literally two Wolves that were skilled enough to fit this category. I’ve seen one fire shaman the whole time I’ve dueled. So Windys are the main threat here.

Wind: These druids are very susceptible to stun lock. MB them often, and trap them. 90% of these will telestomp you and die horribly. If you have a trap at your feet and they are MB’d, you shouldn’t lose. Whirlwind them, and they are hopelessly locked, poisoned, getting hit, cyclone gives out, and they’re dead. Now, most of these will just repeat this pattern, or try it a little closer to you. The smart ones will play defensive caster, but they have poor range, so they are always relatively close. Tele after them, but keep trapping at all times. Think of the traps as a shield between you and a telestomp. Often they will try to draw you off and then quickly tele on you. This can really hurt. If you notice this pattern, pursue, but drop a trap at your feet often. Try to make them think you’re over extended by trapping near them. When they stomp you, they get stunned and whirled. See above for the outcome. You are a very strong build against wind.

Wolf: Traps and MB are your friends here. Stun them a lot, but keep in mind that they don’t stay stunned very well. I mostly just trap them down and whirl occasionally. Don’t let them land a clean hit, because it will be unbelievably damaging if they’ve built right. One druid on West Ladder has one-hitted me with a clean fury sequence when he asked to test his damage. With that in mind, these are a non-teleporting melee class with interruptible attacks, so not too much trouble here. One final note is that you should never use a shadow against these, as they can easily Rabies it and you will become infected if you teleport.

Sorceresses
Sorceresses are generally quite easy for this build. You are 50% Ghost, and Ghosts are excellent caster killers. A very skilled sorceress is difficult, but most of the best use eShield, which gives you a big advantage. You mostly play aggressive Ghost against sorces, but remember to mb and trap, because you can trip them up and end the duel quickly if you catch them on a trap.
Blizzard: Offensive. They generally try to make you run into a killer blizzard as they run. Tele to them and either Dflight or tele/ww, then immediately move away unless you see that they have poor FHR. If they dodge without casting blizzard at you name lock them as they leave your screen and spam mb/tele/ww. Some will use Ice Blast at close range, but they have to stop to cast it. You can tank their Ice Blast, just be careful. Self blizzers are easy, just trap them. Always keep a shadow out.

Orb: Offensive. These guys are spam happy. Play aggressive, move outside of the line directly behind them. The shards won’t hurt much, the big orb will.

Fire Ball: Play fast and aggressive. If they try a running spam, you can either tele carefully and dodge or stop chasing and trap. They will need to come close eventually if they want to duel. When they do, go as fast as you can and hit as much as possible. If they try to tank, you should too. You will out tank them easily with claw block. If you have time, put a trap and mind blast on them as you tank, but don’t get caught at medium range whatever you do, or they will kill you.

Lightning: Offensive. Play these like Fire Ball, except they cast fewer, more damaging attacks.

Infinity: Defensive. These sorcs need to get close, so play trapper against them and whirlwind them when they get hit by traps. If they try to run and cast lightning, follow them at mid range and go offensive. Their lack of block and FHR is their undoing.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:25

Assassins
Ah, your sisters in arms. Except they are trying to kill you. One interesting thing about this build is that no matter what kind of assassin you meet, you can do everything they can (except kickers, but the only time I’ve died to a kicker was naked kill). Few types here.

Trappers: Offensive, but BE CAREFUL. Trapper duels are interesting. Against the less skilled ones, your traps will effectively kill them. Throw traps in with theirs, and it forces them to move away from their trap field. If the traps are in one place, stacked, or in a lose field, you can often teleport directly through them and hit the trapper with a tele-whirlwind. If they were poor enough that this technique hit them, you can usually triangle whirlwind for the win. Now, against better trappers, you need to be much more careful. They will mb you, often heavily, and trap from namelock. On your side, you have high FHR and whirlwind. Whirl a short distance and tele quickly to get out of lock, or simply tele if there are few traps. Trap at them, and remember to mb when you can, but don’t make it a trap war. Tele on them, preferably from namelock if you can, then whirlwind once and tele away. Let them bleed for 8 seconds, then rinse and repeat. You can flight to deliver OW also, but don’t do it when there are traps around. You should make repeated passes like this. Often the trapper will become offensive when you bleed them a lot, which makes it easier to land even more hits. Finally if you ever get the trapper at close range when they are away from most of their traps, whirlwind and mindblast/trap mercilessly, ignoring the 1-2 traps that are on you. 99% of the time you will kill them before they kill you. If you feel it is appropriate, wear a Tgods against trappers. I rarely do this, because often fast teleporting can keep my from getting hit much. If a trapper is causing trouble in a game, remember that you can over absorb them easily and make them useless. Just watch out for Fireblast.

Whirlwind: Defensive. A pure bramble sin has a stronger whirlwind than you, and that’s about it. Trap heavily, tele away from their whirls, and trap/mb them as they go along. You have them namelocked, so at the end of their whirlwind you can often do a pass and whirl them while they stand still. If they make the fatal mistake of trying to desync run out of traps at the end of their whirlwind, this can often mean three of four hits for you, which will seriously hurt them. If they are very good, or can negate your traps, you’ll need to play defensive against them. Try to anticipate their teleport on you and be in whirlwind when they try it. Trap lock them a lot, do a pass and get out, similar to trappers. Finally, mb constantly, it will slowly hurt them and generally make it difficult for them to do the things they want to do.

Ghost/Whirlwind Hybrid: Your mirror image. This is a tough duel if they know what they are doing, not so much if they don’t. Ghosts are complex to play, and a poorly played one is truly bad. However, playing Ghost vs. Ghost is a huge test of skill when you play against a good opponent. Play Offensive and Defensive. Look at the way you duel, consider your weak points, and look for your opponents. It’s difficult to provide concrete strategies for such duels, go with some basic points:

1. Very rapid shifts from defensive to offensive can often get you a free whirlwind hit. Don’t do it often, or they will see it coming.

2. Their most vulnerable phase is when they are in whirlwind. The same applies to you. The lack of control once a whirl is initiated is the reason for this. If they are in and you are not, lock them and trap/mb, then tele near their exit and whirl or don’t depending on the situation.

3. Ghosts rely on damage over time. If you hit them, and they miss you, be patient and go defensive for a short time.

4. Teleport and MB speed have a big impact. If they have 65, and you have 42 (likely if you don’t have the cast ammy), you need to play in a more defensive and reactionary way. If you have the same, i.e. 42/42 or 65/65, you should mix trapping and limited mb. If you have more, MB them a LOT, even if you aren’t trapping as much. It throws them off.

The real keys to Ghost vs. Ghost are forcing them to make mistakes and getting the little things right, having good namelock skills, and playing in a confusing manner so they miss attacks or don’t see traps in the corners of their screen. Good luck, and have fun; my most enjoyable duels have been against other Ghosts. Huge props to legs, Stun, Bune, SiN_D (finally beat me bro!), WsB_GreySin, Huy, EndlessRain and lena_zoids for providing some great duels and teaching me a lot.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:27

My Current Assassin
Aerial, Level 90

Base Stats
Strength: 36
Dexterity: 31
Vitality: 438
Energy: 25

Stats in Gear
Strength: 177
Dexterity: 115
Vitality: 539
Energy: 59

Life: 4074
Mana: 480

Gear:

Helm: 2/20/27Str/11 Res All Circlet, 15Res/15IAS jewel
Amulet: Raven Emblem Crafted Amulet, 2/15/16Fire Res/15 Mana
Armor: 765 Enigma Dusk Shroud
Claw 1: Fury Feral Claws, +3 Lightning Sentry, +3 Venom
Claw 2: 306% Ed Chaos Greater Talons, +3 Lighting Sentry, +3 Venom
Gloves: Trang-Oul’s Claws
Belt: 40/15 Dungos
Boots: 2/25 Shadow Dancers
Ring 1: 236/20 Raven
Ring 2: Rare ring, 10% FCR, 30 Life, 11 Res all, 17 Light res
Switch: 6/6/4 Call to Arms, Spirit Monarch
Charms: 45/45/45/43/41/40/40 Shadow Lifers, 43/39 Trap Lifers, x6 Res/life Scs, x6 Ar/Life Scs, 19/20 Sin Torch, 20/16/8 Anni

In Stash:
Arachnid Mesh
Thundergod’s Vigor
Demonlimb
Widowmaker
Hotspurs
2/7 Amulet, 16 Mana, 15 Life, 14 Res all
2/10 Amulet, 19 Strength, 39 Life
234/20 Raven
20% Wisp Projector
Dwarf Star
30 Maras
Raven Thirst Rare Suwayyah, +20% Ed, Fools Mod, +2 Traps, +3 Lightning Sentry, 30% Ias, Um

This assassin achieves the goals that I’ve posted in the guide. Without prebuff gear, she casts level 40 Lightning Sentries and level 48 Venom. She does a little over 3.3k on her Whirlwind, and reaches over 7.6k trap damage. She has 65 FCR, max speed whirlwind, max trap laying. She can wear all of the above gear, though in some cases I switch to certain specific setups. Mess around and find the most effective for how you duel. One I’m a fan of is useful again strong fire sorceress. Switch the 2nd Ring to Raven, put on the 2/7/mods ammy, and equip hotspurs. Result? More mana, more fire res, still 65 FCR, still high damage. This is very effective, if you can change gear you shouldn’t be losing to fire sorceresses.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 02:28

Conclusion
I hope you have enjoyed this guide and found useful information in it. I have really enjoyed putting it together, learning this assassin, and refining this build. I’m still perfecting aspects of my game, and I will be for a long time. This guide has evolved as my knowledge of assassin has evolved, and I feel that it is finished for now. I’d like to especially thank Speederlander (uC-Stun on US West Ladder) for writing his whirlwind/kick/stun assassin guide and providing a lot of inspiration for this one. I’d also like to thank the unknown and now seemingly retired player of the assassin HK_BlueDragon, who was the first hybrid assassin I met in the early days on the 1.10 ladder. If you read this, thank you for all the information, the ideas, for beating my poor Bramble assassin to a pulp, and for inspiring me to develop a WW/Trapper hybrid of my own. Also Derek (Pure-MX, *catalyst-pvp) for being an awesome assassin player and forcing me to improve by leaps and bounds. Thanks to all those who posted on the critique thread at the DiabloII.net forums. Last but certainly not least, thanks to Martin, Jack, Joe, Chris, Jeff, Jimmy and the other Executioners of US West Ladder for providing a great group of friends online and the most fun dueling I’ve had this ladder. I currently play quite rarely, but the members of the Assassin forum at DiabloII.net are very helpful and include many skilled hybrid players, and they should be able to answer questions about the guide admirably. Good luck with your assassins, and have fun. Peace.

Smithenator

04-12-2006, 06:50

Great finished guide happyassasin, hoping this one gets stickied instead of floating off into oblivion like your last one did. BTW do you still play? I know you got hacked like 3 times or something and I haven't seen any exe assassin around since I heard you got hacked. If you still play I wouldn't mind a few duels again, see if I have improved my assassin since the last time I dueled you.

Ah, just remembered a question that has been bugging me for awhile. Ok, so I use a coa on my hybrid and so my trap damage is about 7k, which is generally enough but sometimes it seems like some added trap damage would give a big oomph to my sin. So my question is would just swapping out shadow lifers for trap lifers work in that situation, or do I need to do some big gear switching for trap gcs to work, or do I need to totally rebuild my assassin to accommodate trap gcs?

Smithenator

04-12-2006, 07:52

scratch the first question, just saw you in a duel game

LtSinborn

04-12-2006, 08:34

nekisi, you still play? this is uN-shinobi.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 11:19

I do still play, pretty rarely with a very ghetto assassin (magic circlet, plain gcs, suwayyahs). eXe is mostly moved to Hardcore atm, but you'll see a few of us around. Soz I didn't say hi.

I'm working on getting a real hybrid together but it's slow going. Everything is damn expensive with the economy messed up. If I can land a fools claw that I've got my eye on I might look at rebuilding in a serious way.

nekisi, you still play? this is uN-shinobi.

What up man, pm for some duels some time or something.

Ah, just remembered a question that has been bugging me for awhile. Ok, so I use a coa on my hybrid and so my trap damage is about 7k, which is generally enough but sometimes it seems like some added trap damage would give a big oomph to my sin. So my question is would just swapping out shadow lifers for trap lifers work in that situation, or do I need to do some big gear switching for trap gcs to work, or do I need to totally rebuild my assassin to accommodate trap gcs?

You can and should switch to trap gcs if you want/need to. Wear a CoA on to make up the DR (don't do it with a circlet) that you lose from the lost fade levels, and just remember that your weapon block is lower (so becareful about tanking).

Oh, and look for vM-Bai, he's a good friend of mine who learned a lot about assassins and hybrids from me, has a good char, and a bunch of my old charms. Look him up for some gg duels.

Kiba

04-12-2006, 11:43

I just made a sin 2 days ago that i named Paw based off your guide. =p

went by your guide and to say the least i like it a lot and did very good in the first few duel games i took my new sin into.

i got a +2sin,20fcr,33*life,15allres circlet that is ber'd but i use suwwaya chaos and fury so would a 15ias/mod jewel be better for trap layin speeds with fade on?

Moritz

04-12-2006, 13:40

nicely done.

i personally would add the aspect of kicking as it only requires 1 skill point in dt and works as fine as on a 'ghoststyle' assassin.

great guide ;)

Noite Escura

04-12-2006, 16:24

Comparing you guide to Speederlander one, I noticed he maxed out Claw Mastery for better AR. Which makes me ask you: How much AR can you get with this setup and is it enough to hit Pals/Barbs?

Moritz

04-12-2006, 18:34

you can hit about 11-12k ar with a fools claw with the setup that happy listed. with ench even about 15-16k.

thats usually enough. if you dont feel so, you can use a ring/amu that doesnt have stats on it and keep and agnelics helo+ring at stash.
this boosts your ar to about 22k with ench, which is enough to hit any melee out there i guess.

HappyAssassin

04-12-2006, 19:14

i got a +2sin,20fcr,33*life,15allres circlet that is ber'd but i use suwwaya chaos and fury so would a 15ias/mod jewel be better for trap layin speeds with fade on?

Sadly, even with a 15 IAS jewel you will not get 9 frame traps with those Suwayyahs. You basically need Ferals and/or Runics to make that work.

Comparing you guide to Speederlander one, I noticed he maxed out Claw Mastery for better AR. Which makes me ask you: How much AR can you get with this setup and is it enough to hit Pals/Barbs?

Someone always asks the AR question. 1st, the difference between speeder's assassin and mine is roughly 25 levels of claw mastery. In practical terms this means that you get 3.5k AR instead of 5k with Fury equipped. 5k isn't much in terms of hitting a high def barbarian or paladin, it might make a difference with opponents in the 10k def range.

Now, with a 1k AR WW you can still hit paladins because of how charge works. Speederlander's assassin MUST hit the enemy in order to hurt them. In fact, it must hit them in order to kill them, so AR becomes vital. You have traps damaging the enemy, which means that less hits will still net a win with good trap use. Ultimately, while he can get 30k AR (I believe, with a massive gear switch), I can get 21k AR and I've never found that the difference between 30k and 21k is that great against everything but a top zealot.

Moritz

04-12-2006, 21:40

hmm i have 4.4k ar with fury even, though i play lvl1 cm as well =)

my personal opinion is that points in cm are pretty much wasted. the importance of ar is often overrated on wwsins. i tried a 'speederländersin' earlier and i didnt notice any real difference.

Ooi

06-12-2006, 01:16

hey happy assassin would you recommend

upping a 3 to LS 1 to Shadow Master Greater talon with 3 socs to Runics???

for the chaos runeword???

thx !

olwe

06-12-2006, 01:31

hey happy assassin would you recommend

upping a 3 to LS 1 to Shadow Master Greater talon with 3 socs to Runics???

for the chaos runeword???

thx !

you can only up unique or rare items.

HappyAssassin

06-12-2006, 01:49

hmm i have 4.4k ar with fury even, though i play lvl1 cm as well =)

Um, yeah, that's my bad. I based that off my current assassin who uses trap gcs (that's all I have, I don't recommend it), not a real WW/Trapper.

Oh, and that claw is excellent. Fast, right mods, saves a skill point (if you want to). You don't hit stuff with your Chaos much anyway, the basic damage hardly matters.

Smithenator

07-12-2006, 06:19

Hey happy, I was wondering if max trap laying speed is worth it.

Ok, so I have a chaos with exact same skills as my current one but its in a 30ias claw so thats fine, but the problem lies with my fools claw. Im currently looking for a 30/20ias with 5+ias fools claw, but when I switch to using that chances are Ill need to put a shael in it for trap laying speed, so Ill miss out on the knockback my current one has. Do you think the switch to 9fpa trap laying is worth the loss of knockback vs smiters and other melee chars?

MysticDragon

07-12-2006, 06:30

Nice duels the other day. I'm wondering how much of a difference in life it will make if you go from plain skillers to 9x 35 lifers.

HappyAssassin

07-12-2006, 08:08

Smith, 9 frame traps is worth knockback. Absolutely.

Mystic, yah, fun duels. To explain the lifer difference, I'll just use my current and original assassin's numbers. My sin has a plain gcs except for a 37 lifer, 20 lifer and a 5 strength. She has a lot of scs with low or no life on them as well (giving res and fhr). With my old setup with 35+ lifers and good dual modded life scs, I had 4k-4.2k life (I did have some 40 lifers, so more than 35+), currently I have 3.4k (a little lower actually) on the same assassin in different gear. I think I actually have more straight +life this time around thanks to my nice ammy.

Bune

09-12-2006, 20:06

Great guide :)

Didn't get a chance to read ALL of it (yet) but I figured I'd stop in and give a shout out to you and kiba. Characters stay around for 90 days right? I think its been about 35-40 since I've been on now so Bune should still be kickin around.

Anyway, hopefully I'll get on soon enough, otherwise expect me on around christmas time.

LtSinborn

09-12-2006, 20:31

oi, Ollie

as one of the top 5 trappers on USWEST (i beat Stall, afk-toEZ and She to 5) ive noticed that there is only one or two ww/trap sins that can beat me. one of them happens to be SeKura. After getting to know him, he has a 5k ww and 12k traps. The whole idea of ww/trap is that you will never be able to beat any good bvc's (Grief, uC-V, Epk-IIIIIIIIII, LoH-Qoo). To obtain a level of perfect, your traps will be the main thing, and your ww is somewhat of a side area.

Of course SeKura used, 3mb/3ls/3venom Chaos and a 3traps/3lightning sentry/2 socket claws. With Max Claw Block. She also had 10 20life/5resis SC's. She also used 9 Trap Lifers, rather than Shadow Lifers. The whole ww idea was a saviour for any good smiters/chargers (Egg, and Asurian). She also used a 1 off perfect CoA, a 2sin skill/20fcr ammy (which I finally got!).

I could go more into his build in depth, but then he said he'd have to kill me. (all of his stuff is completely legit) And Ollie add my new account

/f a fear[iT]

Arbedark

10-12-2006, 02:14

HappyAssassin

10-12-2006, 02:26

Well, with absolutely perfect gear you can do a lot of stuff that I can't recommend in a guide. SeKura may be beating a lot of people, but she (or he, I don't know the player's gender) lost to jacky's wwsin that uses my build. I guess we can't really know which build is better till I duel him, once I get a real assassin with lifers together. I have heard a lot of good things though.

To be honest, the ideal WW/Trap sin could have an inventory of Trap Lifers for pubs and Shadow lifers for priv duels/bvcs. I haven't seen a guide that includes a required 18 GCs yet, so I don't think adding that seems such a great idea.

Btw Arbe, I assume he means a 2k/3k ww, since 5k is only achievable via massive prebuff otherwise.

Arbedark

10-12-2006, 02:27

LtSinborn

10-12-2006, 06:57

SeKura hasnt lost to jackys hybrid.

he claims #1 hybrid, yet hes a pos.

just like his sad excuse for a barb.

ShadowLXIX

10-12-2006, 07:07

The 9 shadow gc's i have are plain or they give irrelevant mods so would it be okay to switch 2 out for 6x 20life sc?

HappyAssassin

10-12-2006, 13:13

SeKura hasnt lost to jackys hybrid.

he claims #1 hybrid, yet hes a pos.

just like his sad excuse for a barb.

I heard very different, I suppose I'd better as sak himself when I'm online.

Rabbitz

10-12-2006, 16:37

Ok, 3k would be a reasonable max (still high imo, but achievable), but 5k is just insane, most pure WW sins (bramble ones), only just get 5k...

3k is prolly the highest you can go with still maintaining 11k/12k ls. And its a pain trying to :/

I stopped bothering at 2.5k ww damage.

Glorft

10-12-2006, 21:11

Im a fan of the balanced thing - may be like 3k ww with lets say 7-8 k trap dmg when swaping lets say 2 shadow skillers with trap ones - both sides must be balanced cause when getting sorbed u must have an alternative . This is the latest ive been trying - maintainig the high venom dmg due to shadow skillers but boosting the ls dmg abive 7-8 k

Naliworld

12-12-2006, 07:36

Sorry for the delay, the thread will be stickied for a week then I'll move the guide posts into the Assassin Builds/Guides thread pending submission into the Strategy Compendium(unless you have future updates planned, in which case please let me know). :)

ShadowLXIX

15-12-2006, 01:33

i have a fury suwayyah that im using for dueling and i found a pally that had a defense of 54k+. Fury claw states that i should be able to hit him since it disregards defense but after i had him stand still to see if i could actually hit him my ww just kept passing through him without hitting. Maybe it was lag, though im doubtful but shouldnt my ww be able to hit him? He was only 1 level higher than me. I even tried using CoS and then ww but it still completely missed him as i passed through im 4-5 times without a single hit.

And how do you achieve an AR of anything above 15k? Without a fool's claw my AR is weak only 3-4k.

Thanks!

HappyAssassin

15-12-2006, 02:12

The Ignores Target's Defense mod does NOT work in PvP, it only affects monsters.

To get high AR you have a few options:

1) Equip Angelics, this will net you huge AR, but you will need to add Dex since you cannot build your raven frost in.
2) Use a Fools.
3) Wear a circlet with the Visionary mod (which gives AR based on char level).
4) Enchant yourself with demonlimb or a sorceress.

Of course, in a real dueling situation, you can also Whirlwind away, which gives an effective infinite AR. You will rarely have a paladin standing still, not stunned.

adecoy

15-12-2006, 22:38

does this make a good pve build as well?

Von Lazuli

16-12-2006, 23:50

Do not bother with this versus monsters. It is like a weak trapper....

So no, not pve.

Laz

adecoy

17-12-2006, 05:25

oops :embarassed:

aman

20-12-2006, 17:39

Just wanted to say this is a great guide.

I have one on single player and have put alot of time and effort into her , and it's my favourite dueler.

Edit : I will post my stats later

RTB

20-12-2006, 18:30

Of course, in a real dueling situation, you can also Whirlwind away, which gives an effective infinite AR. You will rarely have a paladin standing still, not stunned.

Is this assuming the character you're targetting is running at you? That's the only way I can think of that would cause this kind of situation.

Moritz

20-12-2006, 19:23

RTB

20-12-2006, 22:16

no, defense is = 0 if you're running and charging iirc. So, if you get namelocked with charge (from smiters e.g.) your hits auto-hit, and if you hit desyncing fohers or hdins you also ignore def I think.

Sigh. Damn rumor. :rolleyes:
When running the chance to hit formula is bypassed, in other words attack rating, defense rating, the lvls of the attacker and defender do not matter. Chance to (be) hit is 100% before blocking/Evade. This happens whenever the target is running, so once they're desynched they can walk again and have good chance of not getting hit.

Ooi

27-12-2006, 04:43

hey happysin,

i was wondering this build would work??? it's basically based off of yours and has a minor tweak.

helm: 2/20fcr/15res helm - ber rune
ammy: 2sin/15fcr/res <- still trying to find this -_-
claws: chaos and fools mod LS type (Greater Talons)
armor: Nigma
BOots: shadow dancers
ring 1: fcr ring with res
ring 2: raven frost
gloves: Double upped blood fists
belt: spider

9 shadow: 2 fhr rest lifers
anni torch

ok so basicaly this sin is more concentrated on fhr and trap laying speed, however may have a lack of resistance, which i think is fine because scs w/ res will make up 4 it. basicaly you'll be able to hit the 86 fhr breakpoint with bloodfists, Shadow D., fhr gcs, and w/ one fhr SC. but not sure if this breakpoint is worth it. Also with the extra 10 ias from the bloodfists and the Greater Talons claw you will be able to hit the fastest trap laying speed with chaos as your primary claw. Plus the life boost from blood fists is always good ^^. lastly with the setup you'll be able to hit the 65 fcr breakpoint right on. your feed back is greatly appreciated thx!

-Ooi

Von Lazuli

27-12-2006, 05:00

Ooi, the Trang Ouls are a very important part of the build and allow for an effective ww damage by boosting venom. I would not sacrifice them for FHR, instead, you could lose the Arachnids for a 24FHR belt if you are really hurting for it.

Laz

akamaru

28-12-2006, 05:51

u remember what wolf was called?

HappyAssassin

28-12-2006, 06:57

To echo that, the vital part of Trangs is the +25% poison damage you get. It makes your WW much better, without it you really notice a difference.

A nice place to get FHR if you really want it is Bartucs. On the off hand, it wont slow you down, and it has 30 fhr that will get you 86 pretty handily. A belt is an option too. The 15 ammy is very good, I use one myself to keep 65 fcr with a belt of ring switch.

mewizard

29-12-2006, 21:47

I see you've moved up in the world ollie. I remember I use to duel you when you were a nobody LOL :)

Maybe when you have the time you can have fun old duel with me again and show me what new items you gathered along the way since I last saw you.

Congrats on the guide. Glad your second guide got sticked.

Here is a screenshot for you from the good old days:

http://img406.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lolnekisibeniceorelselodf7.jpg

lena_zoids :D

HappyAssassin

01-01-2007, 02:32

AHAHAHAHA! That brings me back. :D

Nice to see my CoA was strength bugged back then, I always thought it looked retarded.

TheRisingX

01-01-2007, 07:45

Ollie! :)
Still gotta teach me, need to learn~ need to learn more! :)
I am going to 15/15 my other Circlet and may be swap out 2 of my Shadow GCs into Trap ones.

Ooi

05-01-2007, 20:44

hi i just made my assassin and im having a few problems.

1)the bramble switch are the giant skull and lidless really needed? because one could you a 2/15 ammy and keep the fools modded claw on. And if i take off my circ i lose alot my str for equipping the bramble. The verdungos i consider fine. However im stuck at the 45 dr breakpoint

2)for widowmaker even w/ a 15- req jewel im still not close to the req. of 125 dex. should i lose the fcr ring, equip a raven, and add in a 2/5+fcr ammy?

thx so much.

-Ooi

HappyAssassin

05-01-2007, 22:47

Hmm, the Gskull is there for 2 reasons. One, the knockback (both claws) is a good thing against smiters, two, you get 50% DR. Socket it with one ber if you otherwise get 45, and add a jah or something else nice.

Losing the ring and adding an ammy is the way to equip widow.

TheRisingX

06-01-2007, 01:55

Ollie I need some help against Bone Necs... I'm finding that they outrange me and getting close to trap them is hard. I usually end up dying if I go in to WW them. What do I need to do?

Rabbitz

06-01-2007, 02:04

Ollie I need some help against Bone Necs... I'm finding that they outrange me and getting close to trap them is hard. I usually end up dying if I go in to WW them. What do I need to do?

I may not be ollie, but by far the easiest thing to do is equip widow on ur cta switch. That stops em from being defensive ( you just need to have about how that perticular necro spamms his spirits to avvoid ibs)

TheRisingX

06-01-2007, 04:34

I dont think I have enough dex even for a Hel'd widowmaker =[

Ooi

06-01-2007, 05:33

hey ummm one more question, w/ your gear listed on the second pagehow are you able to equip the bramble set up, since the str is not sufficient. and have you left out G-skull from your sin because of that reason?

Rabbitz

06-01-2007, 11:30

I dont think I have enough dex even for a Hel'd widowmaker =[

Then the only thing I can come up with =

Make sure your running 65% Fcr, place random ls infront and to your sides.

Random short ww's work like a charm ( the nec will make a mistake.. and you only need one =)

Never.. ever.. lose a lock, be ready to tele--> unsummon --> talon/ww

clairetay

12-01-2007, 04:46

ShadowLXIX

12-01-2007, 06:36

20 (base)
20 (torch)
20 (anni)
20 (rare circlet)
5 (mara's)
68 (lvl 91 enigma)
20 (rare fcr ring)
20 (another rare fcr ring)

Total strength = 193 (base str of 20)

...given it only takes 174 str to wear a COA you have 19 extra str which can be accounted for since it will be quite difficult to get all perfect +str gear, so if your anni and torch are only +15 attributes each then you still have +9 str extra.

@TherisingX: Dont chase necros, you will never be able to keep up with their fcr, if you chase them they only need to spam spirits and they will eventually wear you down.

@Ooi: He has a base str of 35 + 19 from torch + 20 from anny = 74 str. He only needs 3 more strength which can easily come from gskull or rings to wear a ds bramble.

clairetay

12-01-2007, 06:52

er u added 20 from circlet... meaning i have to HAVE a circelt right? lolx

order

12-01-2007, 20:09

need a few pointers... base str for sin is 20 n i have a dusk engima so ill need 55 more points
well i have a 19 torch, anni i haven ided yet so im not sure but with the stats u posted in the first page is it possible to hit the str req for COA? ( have a low 1 2s 20 resist >_>)

i have a couple different ideas...

1-will you have enough fcr to hit the 65% bp w/ a coa equipped? maybe selling the coa for a nice circlet would make things much easier.

2-there is always the option to switch to a mage enigma for less requirements

3-if your rich enough socket your coa with a 15res/15ias and 15res/-15req jewel

if you do about base str 40-50 you should be able to hit coa with no problems. i would say just level until then and save some stat points.

TheRisingX

13-01-2007, 05:04

So what, just like not duel them if they run? =]

ShadowLXIX

13-01-2007, 06:17

er u added 20 from circlet... meaning i have to HAVE a circelt right? lolx

damnit >.<

haha, guess you could just use a couple str sc then...along with the godly str gear needed :tongue:

darkelrond

19-01-2007, 06:17

Hey ollie i have a question of what u think of this build its mb assasin//ww//tele i consider it a ghost
Skills maxed
-mind blast
-fade
-venom
-1 to shadow master
-1 to wof blade fury
-maxed claw mastery
Gear
5/5 psn faceted 2 socketed 12 dr Coa
Chaos suwayyah
fury suwayyah w/ 2dflight/bladesofice
Gothic Plate Enigma
28 maras
2 ravenfrosts
Spider
Trang Gloves
Shadow dancers
6 shadow lifers 25-35
3 plain
19.12 sin torch
19/17/8 anni
10 20 life scs
Any suggestions on dis build or can u comment on wut u think of it or improvements because i want to use ithis effectively to beat characters all round
She currently has 4.3 k ww chaos and alot of stun for casters Thnx
Im currently on US West Non ladder accoutn is xchimpo so feel free to msg me if ud like :smiley:

HappyAssassin

19-01-2007, 20:16

I'd check out speederlander's guide on this one, it is all about sins just like this. A few suggestions:

Even if you don't hit 65fcr/9frame traps (which you should) hit at least 1. Get a FCR ring and ammy.

Put Resist jewels or runes in the CoA instead of psn facets.

Try, try, try to make your claws runics. At least get 1 so you can speed bug.

Everything else looks good, you might want to get Dragon Talon on that sin.

You will be very effective against casters and most smiters, chargers, bowers, etc. You will lose to decent barbs, probobly around 90% or higher loss rate.

PM for more specific stuff, and defidently read speeder's guide.

Smithenator

19-01-2007, 23:36

I keep hearing about speed bugging claws, could someone enlighten me about that?

Rabbitz

20-01-2007, 00:08

Its explained in : Shopbots thread =D, search for it.

TheRisingX

20-01-2007, 01:57

Ollie I can't believe you did that to me. I hate you!!!

LOL just kidding =] .... but that WAS pretty mean. For that you have to make me your student XD

darkelrond

20-01-2007, 15:53

Thnx for the suggestions im starting to fic them up right now and by the way will my damage matter on ww since i depend alot on stun ? cause i dont kick in speedlanders guide

barnicalbob

26-01-2007, 10:41

i noticed that you said to socket a coa with a 15/15 jewl, but you socketed your own circlet with a 7/15. How important is the 15 ias given by the jewl.

HappyAssassin

26-01-2007, 21:01

The "My Current Assasin" section should be rewritten, I'll try and do that tonight. I think there are a few changes that should go in the guide, probobly before I submit the final version to the strategy compendium I'll modify a few of them.

Notable changes:

My sin uses a 15/15 in her circlet now.
My sin uses Runic Chaos/Fury
9 Frame traps should now be considered mandatory unless you CANNOT get them.
A discussion about the usefulness of Dflight (I haven't used this skill in months)
A sidebar type discussion about mixing in trap Gcs (probobly in the gear switching section).\

Rabbitz

26-01-2007, 21:16

Heh, I'm still all for the 7/2 or perhaps 6/3 trap/shadow mix =)

Smithenator

26-01-2007, 22:20

Hey, Im wondering how to manage max res with a verdungos, I can do it but I would need to either prebuff fade or keep the res jewel in my claw, all my scs have at least 8res(most have 9-10). Suggestions?

BTW, a redo to your guide would be awesome, I'm especially curious as to how you duel without DF, I find it a huge convenience against bowazons( I teleport around them and if I stop to get a tele onto them some of the arrows I was outrunning hit me) and almost invaluable against orb sorceress.

One last thing(assuming I dont think up more questions) Im at 10fpa trap laying, think this is acceptable?

Rabbitz

26-01-2007, 22:40

Unsummon --> tele --> ww beats dflight "almost" every time.

10 fpa trap laying will slow you down ( not render ya ineffective but stil .. )

Smithenator

26-01-2007, 22:47

I realize it will slow me down but I use a fools claw alot of the time in a greater claw with a 2/20/2 assasin circlet and the str and fhr the 2 jewels I put in my circlet provide in my opinion are worth it, just wondering how others feel

Rabbitz

26-01-2007, 22:55

Why wouldnt you sox the 2/20/2 with 2x 15/15 jewels..?

If ur using dancers +1 fhr sk +2 fhr sc = enough for most duels.

Smithenator

26-01-2007, 22:58

Im thinking the life I save from using a 7/15 and a 9/15 in it will pay off more, plus I would really like to not remake my sin again, so making use of as few stats as I can is a big plus

influxx

30-01-2007, 06:32

Is there a way to boost attack rating on the ww? Apart from claw mastery. Demon limbs do much?

TheRisingX

01-02-2007, 03:52

Is there a way to boost attack rating on the ww? Apart from claw mastery. Demon limbs do much?

Fools Claw usually does a good enough job. Demon Limb could help a little or quite a bit, not tested myself so I cant say much on it.

Hiei

01-02-2007, 16:32

Hi, I read from one of the thread that natalya set work well with trap sin. Would Natalya set also work for this type of build?

I wanted to try to make this build, but before putting my time on this build I should ask the expert first :smiley:

I have all the items. I just need nat claw.

Nat Armor: 3 perfect poison facet

both claws: 2x 15%increase attack speed & 40% enhanced damage jewel.

Nat Helm: 15 resistance and 7%Faster Caster Rate jewel.

Gloves: Trang

Belt: Arach

Ring: low raven frost, and perfect wisp. I'm trying to find a ring with faster cast rate.

Amulet: magic +3 to trap skills (yeah that all it has)

Boots: Natalya Boots

Charms:
Mid Anni charm stats
18-10 Torch
9x Shadow GC (plain)
4x 100 poison charm
3x 175 poison charm

Feedback please.

clairetay

01-02-2007, 17:02

er when u mean both claw u mean both nat claw? then how the heck r u gonna ww...

Hiei

01-02-2007, 19:00

oh yeah crap lol i wasn't thinking my chaos has

+3 to venom
+2 to shadow
+1 to lightning

aww crap nvm forget about the build I was going to make. I just remember I gave my chaos away to another friend and most of my nat set and I probably need to wear both claw to get the bonus.

TheRisingX

02-02-2007, 02:07

Hi, I read from one of the thread that natalya set work well with trap sin. Would Natalya set also work for this type of build?

I wanted to try to make this build, but before putting my time on this build I should ask the expert first

I have all the items. I just need nat claw.

Nat Armor: 3 perfect poison facet

both claws: 2x 15%increase attack speed & 40% enhanced damage jewel.

Nat Helm: 15 resistance and 7%Faster Caster Rate jewel.

Gloves: Trang

Belt: Arach

Ring: low raven frost, and perfect wisp. I'm trying to find a ring with faster cast rate.

Amulet: magic +3 to trap skills (yeah that all it has)

Boots: Natalya Boots

Charms:
Mid Anni charm stats
18-10 Torch
9x Shadow GC (plain)
4x 100 poison charm
3x 175 poison charm

Feedback please.

Sorry, but you won't be able to teleport. So unless you want to dflight and play like a Bramble-Sin, i dont suggest this build.

AAdition

02-02-2007, 22:19

What jewel should I socket my widowmaker with?

-15req/15 res or -15req/15ias?

soul killer

02-02-2007, 23:08

Hi, have a lil noob question but here goes: What skill should I assign to left/right mouse click?

Thx :D

Smithenator

03-02-2007, 00:05

I just put move on my left and all other skills I use with my right, some people prefer ww on the left but I like this because it frees up my hands(don't have to press shift)

HappyAssassin

05-02-2007, 08:28

Hey guys, I've editted a few things (changed the belt selection section, editted claws a little bit, changed the build goals slightly). I've also completely redone the "My Current Assassin" section, so that it now reflects my actual current assassin.

order

05-02-2007, 21:08

wow happy u got moderator. :D awesome

mephiztophelez

05-02-2007, 23:20

What jewel should I socket my widowmaker with?

-15req/15 res or -15req/15ias?

my $0.02:
if you can get away with it, i'd suggest a Nef rune for knockback, an Um for OW (unless you handy at wep switching while arrows are in the air) or a Hel for the extra -5%reqs.

fyi: Of Fervour (15ias) and Of Ease (-reqs) are both Suffixes, ias is a Magic Only suffix, so you can't get a 15ias/-15req's jewel. also, for me anyways, i run BoS with the bow, so 15% res aint gonna make any real difference in the end.

AAdition

06-02-2007, 05:07

I defintely can't handle a Nef OR Um, as the dex requirement is wayy too high. I might just go for a Hel then.

flamingninja

06-02-2007, 05:46

ollie check ur messages..........

barnicalbob

06-02-2007, 21:09

So with fury + chaos, the 15 ias from the coa isn't needed right?

order

07-02-2007, 04:21

the 15ias from the coa is needed to reach 9frame trap laying unless your chaos and fury are made in greater talons or runic talons.

Smithenator

07-02-2007, 22:48

Im having trouble against hdins that are defensive, if they do runbys I cant get enough time to ww them and my life will get wittled down much quicker than theirs when they wear a tgods, suggestions?

Smithenator

08-02-2007, 02:55

edit function gone:

Also, I need suggestions on beating a defensive ghost, he will go in for 1 ww and my traps dont hit him enough to make up the difference in our ww damage, suggestions? I figured a bramble would solve it but I would like some seconds opinions.

HappyAssassin

08-02-2007, 10:58

Well, if a hammerdin insists on playing the run/spam game, you need to follow him and chip away with MB. When he goes offensive (ie does a pass in this case) you need to anticipate his desync and do a quick WW (emphasis on quick) on the path he is taking towards you. MB and trap from there, then teleport out. Repeat. Beating a good hammerdin is a long duel, and the best one's it should be a pretty even ratio of wins.

A defensive Ghost (he's pure ghost yes?) is beatable by a lot of offense. Just stay all over him with MB and Traps and if he wants to WW you he'll have to take some damage first. Another nice trick is to unsummon lock him after you trade WWs (assuming he goes hit and run) and then WW him after he teles clear and starts replacing traps.

Of course, practice, practice, practice.

influxx

11-02-2007, 08:44

How do you exactly reach 7.6k trap damage with that gear? Is your shock web at like lvl 18?

order

11-02-2007, 11:12

with happy's current gear he is hitting probably lvl 42 light sentry with close to max synergies. that is why he can achieve such high damages of both ls and ww.

HappyAssassin

11-02-2007, 11:15

I'll check tomorrow when I get on, I think it's level 16ish.

ShadowLXIX

13-02-2007, 04:29

I have the option to either gain ~50hp which will be about +80hp with bo bringing my life to 4k (from 3.9k) or i can wear something that boosts my mana about 90 with bo bringing my mana to 540...what would be the better option? I realize mana pots basically fill the void for having lower mana but it gets annoying only having about 450 mana.

barnicalbob

13-02-2007, 10:20

my chaos + fury are suwayyahs, so does this mean the 15 ias jewl in coa to reach max trap laying bp be useless since its not runic talon. Whats required with ias with suwayyahs

HappyAssassin

13-02-2007, 10:35

You can't get max trap laying on a Suwayyah setup. It's impossible with fade. The closest I got was using a Suwayyah/Runic, with Fade active, 30IAS Suwayyah, with a Shael and a CoA with x2 15 IAS Jewels. This got the 75+ IAS I needed, and was totally not worth it. Find Runics or play w/o the speed.

Take the extra 80 life bro.

SmiterMcZealot

21-02-2007, 18:34

Hey HappyAssassin, I'm finally getting close to finishing my version of kick/ww/trap but Im having a lot of trouble finding adequate claws :( so I have a "what-would-Happy-do" question for you. I can get these three claws and am not sure whether to bother and if I do, which of the three:

2venom/2dflight/1wof runics
3LS/2fade gt
3LS gt

The price is a little steep but I'm getting desperate for claws, I have 3 venom ferals right now but I'm thinking that it'd be better to just stick to (-30)'s. Basically - is +6LS worth no +venom; Which is really more important for this build?

I was thinking that +6LS on claws would that let me stick to straight shadow gcs and thus end up with pretty high venom anyways along with higher fade/sm/mb... but really, I don't know what I'm doing and am probably rambling incoherently. halp!

edit: also, I'm getting conflicting reports from jrichards and the posted ias speeds: is the -25wsm (-30 and -20) 9 frame trap/kick breakpoint 52 ias or 56 (can I hit it with a fury feral + a 15ias jewel in the hat or not)? sorry for spamming you with dumb q's haha

Arbedark

21-02-2007, 18:44

Smithenator

22-02-2007, 00:05

although not happy, I would definently go with the 3ls gt's

HappyAssassin

22-02-2007, 02:19

A quick check of the speed calculators shows that a 7/3 kick requires 56IAS with -25 base speed.

The x2 +3 LS GTs are an excellent option for the claws, +venom is ideal but not needed. LS levels are better than Venom levels, also using a pair of GTs will mean that you will have great flexability with dexterity, making gear switches easier.

RTB

23-02-2007, 16:08

Just curious about something regarding assassin cast animations, these are the breakpoints for it:
FCR |frames |ActionFrame
0 |16 |9
8 |15 |
15 | |8
16 |14 |
27 |13 |
39 | |7
42 |12 |
65 |11 |
86 | |6
102 |10 |
174 |9 |

Note the 86 FCR breakpoint, where it takes 6 instead of 7 frames until for example Mind Blast is cast. Wouldn't this be good for PvPers to reach? ActionFrame is the frame in the animation where the spell is actually cast.

Eilo Rytyj

23-02-2007, 16:20

Very good point RTB. Shaving off that frame where the Mind Blast effect actually hits could make a huge difference in duelling style. You'd hardly notice it, but it's still there.

But, to convince all the random bnetters to adopt this, when many of them don't even understand the concept of FCR and breakpoints, let alone frames, would take some effort. Effort I don't have...

HappyAssassin

07-03-2007, 08:37

Okay, so I've messed around with the action frame FCR bp a little bit. I used a couple of setups to reach it:

Trangs + Arachs + Circlet + 10 FCR ring + 16 FCR ammy.

Trangs + Cham'd Valk + 16 FCR ammy + x2 FCR rings

Now, the first one of these costs me DR (dungos). The second one uses a rare (perm its rare anyway) NL item, costs me a bit of resists and the useful stats I could have from a Maras or 2sin/mod/mod/res ammy in a Valk setup.

After dueling with it, I really can't say it's worth it. The result not much of a change that I noticed. You have to sacrifice gear to make it work, and the sacrifices tend to hurt you defensivly.

clairetay

11-03-2007, 09:44

k having a bit of problem.... i dont think i can get that 2/20 circlet (its gonna cost a bomb >_<)
wat helm do u suggest... i have, shako, coa & giffon
i have 40 fcr now with belt & glove
also how much ar do u guys suggest when facing melees like smiter & of coz hammerdin... i dont plan to use anglic set >_< using maybe 2 * raven or maybe if i can find some fcr rings with ar....

wizAdept

11-03-2007, 09:50

wowza, learn something new all the time. Hrm this may explain a few things.

I don't think it's worth it for a wwsin or kicker or any form of SD assassin to try to reach 86fcr, as Happy pointed out it takes a bit too much gear sacrifice, also imo it might not be that great a thing since it means your cooldown animations for cast will be 1 frame longer than 65, and as a SD sin you want a minimal amount of time from teleporting on top of someone to using WW or talon or whatever. This is just speculation on my part.

This could be useful on a c/c trapper, I'll have to test it to be sure but Im thinking it would be nice to have tele actually move you a frame earlier, even with longer cooldown animation.

For a w/s trapper you are probably better off going for 102fcr so these actionframe bps don't make a difference there.

mephiztophelez

13-03-2007, 00:27

k having a bit of problem.... i dont think i can get that 2/20 circlet (its gonna cost a bomb >_<)
wat helm do u suggest... i have, shako, coa & giffon
i have 40 fcr now with belt & glove.

from the helms you've listed, i'd go with the griffons. the lit damage mods will do nothing for your traps, so it's basically a +1/25fcr hat. along with the arach and trangs, theres your 65%fcr sorted leaving the ammy+ring vacant.

coa & shako are all well and good IF and only if you can still make your fcr goal.

ahappyending

15-03-2007, 03:31

CaptnSparrow

15-03-2007, 04:06

hey, i dont really understand the part on the claws. does that mean if i use a feral claw(chaos) and a runic talon (fury), i wouldnt have to wear any ias items? and if so, would the dmg of the claw be very significant of ww?

To reach 9 frame trap laying with a weapon speed -30 claw, you'd need 42 extra ias according to the breakpoints listed in the sticky. So you need a 15 IAS jewel or valkerie helm to make up that extra bit.

ahappyending

15-03-2007, 04:23

does both claws has to be runic(-30)? or 1 will do?

CaptnSparrow

15-03-2007, 04:42

does both claws has to be runic(-30)? or 1 will do?

As it says in the IAS sticky, if you're dual claw you average the weapon speed of both claws. So if you have a Runic and a Feral, your base would be -25 since (30+20)/2 = 25

ahappyending

15-03-2007, 05:18

k, im not really gd at maths, so if im wearing dual runic talons. how much ias to i have to make up, besides the 40% from claw?

HappyAssassin

15-03-2007, 06:25

You would need 2 ias, but since the smallest practical IAS increase is 15, you'll probobly end up using that. There are 10% IAS items, but none of em have a place on a WWsin (Bloodfists).

ahappyending

15-03-2007, 06:32

so i guess its ok even if i used 1 feral and a runic? does it matter where i place my claws? i remembered u talking about the right hand thing.

HappyAssassin

15-03-2007, 08:48

1 Feral and 1 Runic works just fine, actually all my claw setups besides the Jade Talon one includes a Feral. The left hand claw bug is nice to get max trap laying with a Suwayyah if you really need to, but switching every bo or death sucks.

clairetay

20-03-2007, 14:01

currently using giffon as helm for the fcr... should i ber it? only have engima for dr & if i leave it as that i think i will waste some points on fade...

clairetay

20-03-2007, 15:02

er another question... would maras be better than highlords?

order

20-03-2007, 19:31

what lvl is you fade right now? if you achieve 30+dr with fade you can usually swap a dungos for spider in most situations. most melee duels only need 42fcr in my opinion. that will leave you space to socket it with something more useful like an um, jah, psn facet, ect.

maras is a better choice for a sin than highlords. more skills, more res, more attributes.

clairetay

20-03-2007, 19:44

so 42 fcr is enough? i thought 65 is healthy.
k ill go with maras then

HappyAssassin

20-03-2007, 19:50

I'm not sure on your claw setup, but usually you have to socket a 15IAS jewel in your helmet to get 9 frame traps. Personally, I used Dungos all the time in pubs, still getting 65 fcr via a ring and ammy. You can go 42 fcr with dungo vs. melee if you like to keep your maras on. 42 is only vs. melee, for dueling casters and BvCs 65 is NECESSARY.

Maras > highlords, especially on a hybrid.

clairetay

21-03-2007, 03:23

i see i see, actually my sin is still in leveling, but i might be using a greater claw & a runi claw...

MysticDragon

21-03-2007, 04:39

If I use Runic Chaos / Runic Fury with a 15 Ias jewel in my helm, what kick speed will I get with Fade?

HappyAssassin

21-03-2007, 10:54

Your setup meets the IAS and EIAS requirements (46 and 63 respectively) with 55 IAS and 67 EIAS. Assuming the formula and bp charts are accurate you should have 7/3 kicks.

MysticDragon

22-03-2007, 04:59

Your setup meets the IAS and EIAS requirements (46 and 63 respectively) with 55 IAS and 67 EIAS. Assuming the formula and bp charts are accurate you should have 7/3 kicks.

Do I need to put the Fury on as the main weapon?

HappyAssassin

22-03-2007, 07:05

Yes you do.

Von Lazuli

22-03-2007, 10:08

Why would you not put Fury as your main weapon though? It has more Open wounds, and a higher attack rating, which means that you want more hit-checks with it.

Laz

Damric

24-03-2007, 05:25

A note about Mind Blast. Having the extra point in there causes your shadow master to cast it much more often.

If this theory is correct, can I do this to make my shadow master cast more death sentries by placing 2 points?

Exactly how does this work? I assume you extensively tested this, so please explain.

order

27-03-2007, 18:58

your shadow will have a higher chance of casting dsentry the more points you put in it.

happy has done testing showing that the more points added, the greater the chance they will use the skill.

Damric

29-03-2007, 05:12

I have zero points in mind blast, and 2 points in death sentry. It still casts a lot of mind blast and almost no sentries. I wish happyass would give me more information on this, or maybe one of you can direct me to a thread where it is explained better.

clairetay

29-03-2007, 05:56

emm a little question regarding fade.. so 1 lvl of fade = 1 dr? so if i have lvl 14 fade that means 14dr right?

Smithenator

29-03-2007, 06:04

yes, each level of fade, either through actual points invested or not, will give you 1 dr.

MysticDragon

29-03-2007, 06:16

Don't teleport on a Hammerdin even with Mind Blast locked on. If the Hammerdin knows what he's doing, he'll see it coming.

Rabbitz

30-03-2007, 15:35

Don't teleport on a Hammerdin even with Mind Blast locked on. If the Hammerdin knows what he's doing, he'll see it coming.

In other words, tele slightly southwest under the hammerdin, then quickly ww up and down diagonally, then.. gtfo. Rinse and repeat.

HappyAssassin

31-03-2007, 22:06

I was afk a bit, a few questions popped up.

From the tests I've done the main difference I've noticed is between the cast rates of spells relative to the other spells a shadow has available. This is also based on shadow AI to some degree. The shadow likes to cast MB at medium range, and she will do it more often with additional points in MB. She will favor a trap with more points in it when she is in a range at which she prefers to cast traps. Shadows don't trap very much in PvP at all, simply because things move so fast and their AI is rarely in a situation where it will trap.

Oh, and you can tele-ww a hammerdin, but its dangerous and should only be done if you know you can correctly guess their pattern when they desync charge and hammer.

Moritz

01-04-2007, 14:30

Oh, and you can tele-ww a hammerdin, but its dangerous and should only be done if you know you can correctly guess their pattern when they desync charge and hammer.

Yeah I also think that tele/wwing a hdin isn't always bad. just make sure you don't do it too often against the same player because he will be spamming random hammer 24/7 then after a time.

Oh, also make sure you always have your SM out when tele/wwing for minion stack. never do without sm

HappyAssassin

01-04-2007, 23:00

lol, well, that shadow thing goes for literally any duel except anti-smiter. Always have the shadow out, always always always, she'll save you over and over again.

Moritz

02-04-2007, 12:17

I don't like SM e.g. against necs that MASSIVELY spam teeth. They will kill your SM every time, giving then 7 life every time (from laek enigma) and disable your DF if you always recast and force you to regroup like every 10 secs to recast =)

but yeah, ofc SM should be always out. Just thought it should be emphazised for tele/ww vs hammers

HappyAssassin

02-04-2007, 19:56

Moritz

02-04-2007, 22:06

Hmm, thats an interesting point on the teeth spammer. I always use my shadow vs. necros, since I'm more afraid of IBS than teeth, but I can see how it might be an issue. I never use dragon flight nowadays though, so the red bug isn't a problem.

yeah against those necs that use BS/BSr only I use my SM as well of course.

I also hardly use DF nowadays because I'm getting more and more familiar with PH which usually works better than DF.
I still DF occasionally though and the 1/5 sec I lose trying to DF when it was disabled made me eat some BS several times :P

HappyAssassin

03-04-2007, 04:44

You use PH for stun a lot? I've only used it very rarely vs. defensive sorces.

Moritz

03-04-2007, 13:18

Yeah when they play too defensive it's often pretty hard to catch them straight with MB, so I use PH to stun them once (easy target with autoaim) and try to grab a namelock then while they are in a knockback animation, just like a bvc would do with leap and unsummon.

or even PH once and directly tele/ww without namelock.

yelopen

28-04-2007, 05:32

Should I be striving to hit the 9 frame Trap-laying, 7/3 kicking for every setup I use?

I see that you use a Feral and a GT and are missing 1 IAS to hit the 7/3 kick BP. With Fool's + GT, you only have 45 IAS, when you need 75 to hit 9 frame trap.

The IAS tables say IAS on off-hand claws don't work so that flustered my calculations a bit. Are those frames really that important?

HappyAssassin

30-04-2007, 03:36

yelopen

30-04-2007, 03:59

9 Frame traps is absolutely vital. You should have it in all setups. For the kicks, I don't mind missing a kick frame, some people do. To get 7/3 kicks you need either dual GT/Runics or a 2 soc helm. I happen to have a Feral claw that is much better than my Runic/GT options and my current helm is better than any 2soc I could find (godly 2soc rares like the one on Bune are very, very rare), so I use those and miss the kick frame. I'd rather have the mods on my particular items than that frame.

Remember, it's not a formula. Any build that uses rares and deals with a ton of BPs will be individual to the player who makes it. Actually, that's one of my favorite things about sins. :smiley:

Well, let's see. With a Fool's / Chaos (yours is a Suwayyah correct?), you need 75 IAS for 9 frame Traps since Suwayyah is 0 WSM and Chaos is -30. You only have the 30 from your Fools and the 15 from your helmet. Where else do you get IAS?

Also, with Jade Talon / Chaos, you need 63 IAS to get 9 frame. I see only 35+15 = 50.

I'm thinking of using Runic Fury and Chaos GT like my current Ghost sin.

HappyAssassin

01-05-2007, 05:17

I stopped using my Suwayyah Fools for the most part toward the end of the time I played WW/Trapper, I used a +2Sin Feral Fools instead.

You will miss the BP with a Jade Talon unless you use a 2 socket helm with x2 15 IAS jewels. If you want to use a Jade Talon switch, you should look for a 2/20/2 (a blue one will do) and use a strength ammy if you have str on your circlet. This basically requires a lot of wealth, because:

1) The 2/20/2s don't grow on trees.
2) You need a very nice ammy with STR and Res, because the point of Jade is to stack, and taking off maras will cut you 30 resists.

If you are stacking against lightning, put on a highlords (nice IAS, still a skill, good light res, deadly strike don't hurt) and stick with your str circlet, more resists that way.

If you stack massively (I.e against cold or high level conviction), you'll lose the BPs. In this case though, your goal is pretty much to negate them, so speed isnt as important. Don't lose your BPs against a V/T or T/V, you can beat them without negating FoH anyway, and the BPs are more important.

yelopen

03-05-2007, 05:55

I need a 2/20/2 for a Jade Talon O_O

I can't afford just to use regular gear? My current sin just switches out for a Jade :/

Rabbitz

04-05-2007, 14:12

If you wanna go ahead and get an uber enough ammy to outprefrom mara's.... you can clearly afford 20/10's 11's.

clairetay

08-05-2007, 18:34

haapy u were saying that u mostly used a ghost now instead of a ww/trap. do u mind posting yur stats/ skills distrubtion & equips used on yur ghost?

HappyAssassin

08-05-2007, 19:59

Happily I will.

My Current Assassin

Runics (*wwsin)

Gear

Helm: 2Sin/20FCR/27STR/14RES Circlet, socket with 15/15 RES/IAS jewel
Ammy: 30 Maras
Ring 1: 232/20 Raven
Ring 2: 10FCR/30Life/11RES/16LiteRES
Armor: Dusk Enigma
Belt: Arach
Boots: 2/25 Dancers
Gloves: Trangs
Claw 1 (Primary): 40IAS/Fools/273%ED/+2 Mind Blast Feral Claws, socket with Um
Claw 2 (Secondary): +3 Venom/+3 Fade Chaos Runic Talons
Switch: 6BO/6BC/4 CTA, Spirit Shield

Stash

30 RES Archon Fortitude
19/50 Bramble
70 Kiras, socket with Um
Gores
Tgods
40/15 Dungos
7OW/2ll/20STR/74Life Crafted Blood Belt
Raven
Wisp
Dwarf
Highlords
2Sin/16FCR/21Mana Ammy
Widowmaker
2/2/49 Jade Talon, socket with Shael
+3Venom/+3 Lite Sentry Fury Feral Claws

Bramble/Fortitude Switch

Helm: 2Sin/20FCR/27STR/14RES Circlet, socket with 15/15 RES/IAS jewel
Ammy: Highlords
Ring 1: 232/20 Raven
Ring 2: 219/20 Raven
Armor: 30 RES Fortitude or 19/50 Bramble
Belt: 40/15 Dungos
Boots: Gores
Gloves: Trangs
Claw 1 (Primary): 40IAS/Fools/273%ED/+2 Mind Blast Feral Claws, socket with Um
Claw 2 (Secondary): +3 Venom/+3 Fade Chaos Runic Talons
Switch: 6BO/6BC/4 CTA (Due to space limitations, I can't put a lidless on here, and I don't have the Str for Spirit)

Charms

45/45/45/43/41/40/40/38/35 Shadow Lifers, 19/20 Torch, 20/16 Anni, x5 3/19+/20s, x5 19-20/5s

Skills

20 Fade
20 Mind Blast
20 Claw Mastery
20 Venom
1 Dflight
1 Blade Shield
1 Lightning Sentry
1 Shadow Master
8 Weapon Block
All prereqs

Finished at Lvl 92, currently almost 91, the last points are going towards the prereqs for dflight (I decided to get it at the last moment).

Stats

Strength: 36
Dex: 31
Vitality: All the rest (I don't remember the precise number off the top of my head)
Energy: Base OFC

Hotkeys
Left Click:
X: Dtalon
C: Dclaw

Right Click
A: Whirlwind
S: Teleport
D: Wake of Fire
F: Mind Blast
G: Lightning Sentry
W: Dflight
E: Cloak of Shadows
R: Blade Fury or Psychic Hammer (depends on the duel)
F6-F12: Prebuffs (Blade Shield, Venom, Fade, BoS, Shadow Master, BC, BO)

When I use widow I swap the A hotkey to GA.

That's my sin :)

xeris

09-05-2007, 00:58

Which do you think is better in terms of PvP?

HappyAssassin

09-05-2007, 01:53

I'm not 100% sure. The WW/Trapper build is better in GM against barbarians and smiters, that I'm certain of. I'm also sure that this build is better against necros, sorceresses and wind druids. Of course, it has ZERO chance against a good Barb, whereas WW/Trapper is still pretty good against good windies, necros, sorceresses etc.

WW/Trapper is extremely dependent on the enemy playing GM absorb (1 piece on West) against them, the Ghost can't really be absorbed except with very rarely carried items. Ghost can be very good on a 2 person PKing team, IMO just as good or better than a WW/Trapper.

In Sin vs. Sin, I've fun dueled against all of the WW/Trappers I trained as well as Bune and several others, and this sin has done very, very well. With the Fort setup it is potentially even more powerful, but I haven't messed with this as much.

Ghosts are generally harder to use than WW/Trappers, they require more precision and (as Bune put it) trickyness. I think it comes down to personal preference, most the people I've beaten Ghost vs WW/Trapper have stuck with their WW/Trappers because they prefer them against other opponents.

Smithenator

09-05-2007, 02:47

Nevermind, just remembered fade and all its glory..

What opponents do you use widow against? Only ones I can think of would be maybe hammerdins.

HappyAssassin

09-05-2007, 03:11

I don't usually use Widow against hammerdins. I tend to use Mind Blast the same way barbs use widow, to piss them off and make them offensive. Maxed Mind Blast does good damage to a hammerdin, even a max DR one. I use Widow against Barbs, mostly because it gives a small chance to win as compared to a virtually nil one. Medium barbs I use bramble or fort against and just WW them down. Good ones I can't really deal with toe to toe.

Widow can also be nice against any dueler who just runs constantly, I've used it on some trappers to nice effect.

yelopen

09-05-2007, 05:32

Man, all these good words toward a Ghostsin is almost making me regret listening to Isaac to switch :P

xeris

09-05-2007, 05:35

I made my Sin, Texture, the 1st build a Ghost and the 2nd build a Hybrid. Not really sure I like more. I think that Ghosts are much easier to play than Hybrids for some reason. Its probably the fact that the stun much better, but there traps dont last as long and need more recasting. I put a point on WoF on my Hybrid just for certain duels. Whisper me some time, I'd like to test out my build and stuff.

/w *Skince.

yelopen

09-05-2007, 06:38

Well, if I don't like a WW/Trapper, I'll just transfer the gear back over to my Ghost ^^ I got a ton of gear improvements anyways.

Moritz

09-05-2007, 15:08

Happy, in which situations would you use Dclaw? I never tried in in pvp, to be honest.

I played both, Ghost and Hybrid, and I find that hybrid offers some more tactical options.
Even against casters, where I'd normally say that WoF does better, you can occasionally surprise by start trapping with LS behind trees or bushes.
Also, if you start tanking someone with WW or kicks and realize that you will lose the shootout and retreat, a lot of people will want to finish you off quickly, which you can really often conter by rapidly setting 2-3 LS - and their chainlocking or hunting is possibly gonna become their doom.

I guess I don't need to mention that duels as a Ghost against barbs and almost all paladins are often pretty hard and not that much fun.
This is, like Happy already pointed out, the main reason for me to play hybrid.
The only thing that hurts is losing the high level Mindblast, for several reasons.
But in the end, I am still able to beat pretty much any sorc and druid that I see, and the necromancers that good enough to beat a good hybrid are pretty rare.
Against trappers, I like having 7k++ traps as backup and to mix under their traps, and I can still tankout them with whirlwind or pop in for OW occacionally like ghosts often do.

I think it's preferance, but being hybrid has many pros - mainly against palas and barbs, but not only.

HappyAssassin

09-05-2007, 19:38

Well, I have been a long time proponent of the hybrid build, and by no means would I say that its inferior in this thread dedicated to it. I use a ghost mostly because of the types of dueling I do. However, I would say that I haven't met a hammerdin with my ghost that made me wish I was a hybrid, and I've dueled some of the btter people on West with Runics. Most auradins negate traps anyway, FoHers are just not worth mentioning. The only paladin class that's a pain for ghosts and a breeze for hybrids is good smiters, and then only in GM, in a pub its actually BETTER to be a ghost against a smiter, you have more AR and damage to make up for your lack of traps (smiters tend to negate traps more than any class beside hdins in my experience).

Yes the barb problem is there. I have a fort setup to try and deal with that, it works on the medium barbs but not the best ones. Again, if they absorb you you're screwed anyway.

I used to go around saying that a WW/Trapper can have all the WW potential of a Ghost and sacrafice more or less nothing. I also used to disregard the absorb problem because I would only GM duel. I used to assume that a Ghost was < than a WW/Trapper in sin vs sin, because I'd only met two ghosts who were good at sin vs sin and I was able to beat him. But the Ghost does have a better WW than a WW/Trapper, enough that it makes a difference. People DO absorb you, and it does hurt a WW/Trapper more than I'd like to admit. And you can ask the people I sin vs sin whether a Ghost can beat a WW/Trapper. The only matchup besides barbs that the WW/Trapper excels at where the Ghost might have problems is very good trappers, who know that you have one mods of attack and play super defensive to wear you down.

In sumation, it comes down to preference and which tactics you prefer. WW/Trapper is a very balanced dueling style as Moritz mentioned, switching offense and defense, using different types of attacks, and in GM duels it does offer some advantages over the Ghost build without losing many of its strengths (thats the point of a shadow GC using WW/Trapper). What I like about the Ghost is that it has a super aggressive style of play. You get on the enemy and stay on them, it requires very fast namelocks and precise whirlwinds. I can kill necros with my WW/Trapper, on my ghost I dominate most necros, even good ones. Same goes for windies. Again, it comes down to style, I'd rather do better in sin vs nec or sin vs hammer than sin vs smiter. Just my preference.

Moritz

09-05-2007, 19:58

Hmm, this is true, again.

The time where I used to play Ghost in closed bnet has been about 1 1/2 years ago, so possibly I've just been worse than I am now.

However, I got a perf geared Ghost on open battle.net to duel mates from another pvp forum (German community), and I often wish I had some traps that actually deal some damage (mainly against palas and barbs, as already mentioned).
On the other hand, max MB does help a lot, and SM helps really much more on a ghost; and I'm usually a pretty offensive player - that's why I naturally avoid playing casters as they are of rather defensive nature.

As for closed bnet duels, I don't know the dueling environment of the US realms, but from what you hear the people there seem to BM more than in Europe (I play SCNL), but I have to admit that the unfairness in pub games is increasing here too.
Anyway, I don't get absorbed too bad usually, and if I get, that are usually the guys that I sure would kill without too much sorb, so it doesn't make me feel bad.
On the other hand, I often wish I had higher WW damage...

hmm, I got loads of stuff lying around on my mules, together with my lvl29 LLD bowzon, which is easily worth 10k+ fg together ... I might consider trying a Ghost again.
I tried several different chartypes now, and I like some of them (V/T and smiter are cool, BvC works fine too), but none of them had the versatility an assassin has, and that's why I love assassins so much.
I got a kicky wof hybrid claw lying around too (1df 2ls 3wof runics, 3os), so I might even consider trying that.

Finally, Ghost and WW/LS are imho pretty even concerning many aspects of dueling - comparing those chars does, however, never lead to an end (and yes, I also always take part in the discussion, lol) with a clear outcome =)

PS. Happy, sorry, but you forgot to tell me about the use of Dclaw :>

PS.2: my ww/ls/kick assassin just reached lvl96 in this second. 8D

HappyAssassin

09-05-2007, 22:25

congrats on lvl 96!!!! I'm only 91 ATM, going for 93 (I hate to level).

Yes there is a lot of BM in the US. Maybe it's our violent nature?

Oh yea, Dclaw. Well, it's like this. I find that against a good caster with block, Dclaw is more effective for the tele-zerk style attacks I sometimes do. Vs. non-block casters, kicks take the cake, very fast, stunning etc. On the blockers, because I have a 3 kick volley on my sin, I sometimes kick them and nothing happens. Now, Dclaw is a slower attack overall, but it is actually faster on the initial hit (6 frames vs. 7 frames). The skill also has no KB, which doesn't matter in a trap lock (where I'll be kicking anyway), but does matter if I tele-claw them clean (no traps) because they won't get pushed out of my attack. Most of the time, vs. Summoners and Druids I kick. vs. Necromancers and Sorceresses, I generally triwhirl, but sometimes if they are adept at getting out of it I'll unsummon lock and Dclaw them. It's not a necessary skill, just a fun little trick I've been messing with recently.

Also, just out of curiosity, I had a two Ghosts duel melee style, one using Dclaw and the other using Kick. Dclaw came out on top everytime, probobly due to the higher damage (in ghost mod my sin does a shown damage of 3.7/3.8k with Dclaw).

Oh, PS, watching your sin literally maul the enemy to death is very satisfying, nothing says OWNED like clawing someone down.

mythos

11-05-2007, 03:29

Quick question.
I'm rebuilding my ls/ww sin and I have these claws.
runic - +3 ls +2 df +2mb - currently rolled as chaos
runic - +3 ls - currently rolled as fury
GT - 3os +2 ls +3venom

Should I chaos the GT so I can benefit from the +str mod? I figure I won't need DF, or I can hel that claw and make a fury with it.
Or should I keep the two runics for the extra ls level?

Basically, do I save 10 stat points or get the extra ls level?

MysticDragon

11-05-2007, 03:38

yelopen

11-05-2007, 04:34

I don't get it, how is a Ghost better against a Hammerdin? Unless the Hammerdin completely negates traps...which leaves you with a weak WW and crappy MB damage?

CaptnSparrow

11-05-2007, 05:08

Hammerdins will, from my experience, not get hit hard by traps. PvP Hdins often have Res Lightning points to bring them to a natural 80 cap. Add one sorb item and it gets hard. Plus they desynch all over, so linear LS shots aren't dependable.

The longer duration on Mind Blast, as well as the higher damage is, in the end, more helpful in the duel. An assassin wins against heavy desynchers by clipping whirls, in which the stronger WW is more useful. The Ghost has the more useful tools in this matchup.

yelopen

11-05-2007, 05:40

I guess, Hammerdins aren't too much of a challenge for my Ghost for that matter. Just the ones that use Prayer >.>

So, Ollie, I need a strong opinion from you. Should I or should I not switch to a WW/Trapper. It will honestly save me a long time of looking for a nice Runic and GT and 2/15 amulet and +4LS Fool's if I don't >.>

I know you've dueled me before, and I've got a crapload of gear improvements, including 5x 30 lifers, 2x 25 lifers, and 2x FHR Shadows, higher Dex Dancers, and a decent circlet.

HappyAssassin

11-05-2007, 10:15

Moritz, I'd take a extra trap level over the 10 stats personally. That Venom on your GT won't help you much, you don't have complementary venom on the other claw. I like damage over life personnally.

Mystic: Hi!

PS I never said I haven't met a tough hdin, just not one that made me wish for traps :P

yelo: First of all, ghost vs. hammerdin is a different duel than WW/Trap vs. Hammerdin. Most of the WW/Traps I've seen basically use WW defensively while hitting the hdin with traps. A Ghost generally lays Wakes, gets MB lock, and just spams it with 65 FCR. This is actually a more dependable source of damage than traps, it goes at a constant rate, and it give you more control over them. If they try and come in for a pass, you can WW them. If you lock them hard with Wake, you can WW them. My Ghost packs 15k AR with a high physical Fools claw, which hits a LOT harder than 9k AR on a trap oriented Fools claw. Good hammers are always a challange, mistakes kill you just about instantly.

If you would have to go through the difficulty of finding the claws and ammy (the hardest stuff to find to be honest), I'd go with a pure ghost. There are two reasons for this:

1) Between Derek, Wes, Kennedy and me, most of the best sin gear on this ladder is owned by people with no intention of trading it. Isaac has some nice stuff too. There aren't too many top claws and ammies floating around, it would likely be a pain to find.

2) Pure ghost is just fun. I promise you, play a pure ghost for a few months and your all around play will improve much more than on a WW/Trapper. Those traps get you kills that you don't (I'm not sure this the right word here) deserve. That's to say, pure Ghost makes you work for your kills more, you won't get that random luck where a necro gets wiped out by a 5 stack. IMO it's more fun, that's why I play it.

If you want to know absolutely, definatively which is the stronger build, I'd say it's still a correctly tweaked WW/Trapper.

CaptnSparrow

11-05-2007, 13:36

Those traps get you kills that you don't (I'm not sure this the right word here) deserve. That's to say, pure Ghost makes you work for your kills more, you won't get that random luck where a necro gets wiped out by a 5 stack. IMO it's more fun, that's why I play it.

If you want to know absolutely, definatively which is the stronger build, I'd say it's still a correctly tweaked WW/Trapper.

Agreed completely.

yelopen

12-05-2007, 02:15

Well I play a Ghost already if you didn't realize :/

I don't get how an amulet is hard to find for a Ghost? Yours uses Maras O.O
My claws at the moment are pretty nubby, 2Venom/2MB/1DF GT Chaos, 2Venom/2DF Runic Fury.

I duel Hammerdins differently apparently O.O I use LS and MB most of the time, but most Hammerdins Tele-Hammer or Charge by me, then I just whirlwind clip them quickly and get out and regroup.

HappyAssassin

12-05-2007, 02:33

yelopen

12-05-2007, 03:02

I meant the 2/15 ammies are hard to find, which is the main ammy for WW/Trap's pub setup. Duel hdins however you want, as long as you win :p

Look me up some time on Bnet, I'm almost done with my current sin and looking for some Ghost v Ghost (while is damn near impossible to find now that everyone's a hybrid).

But on a Ghost you use Maras right?

Sure I'd duel, except for the fact my parents won't let me play atm O_O
But I'll msg you if I get on.

HappyAssassin

12-05-2007, 04:12

Yes on a ghost you use maras in the pub setup, though a 2/15 is nice to have to keep 65 fcr in different setups (with tgods for example, or kiras).

yelopen

13-05-2007, 08:01

Wait, I'm assuming Runics is basically a Speederlandersin correct? Don't you just need to put Fade in until level 42? And don't you need enough points in DTalon to hit 17?

Also, I've been calculating, and because both my Chaos and Fury have DFlight (although I may change), I only use 94 points to get Blade Shield, WoF, LS, DTalon, and all skills maxed. Speederlander says to put the rest in Dragon Flight, although that seems kind of a waste to me since I'm not putting a point in it anyhow. Where could the rest of the points go?

HappyAssassin

14-05-2007, 01:05

Well, she's not quite a speederlandersin, though that's the insperation ofc. She has 1 point in kick, and I maxed Fade (I like the gear versitility in pubs). 17 in talon does nothing, it's just the highest level of talon with 3 kicks, he put those points in for AR. I'm not sure why you have extra skill points, I'm done at lvl 92 when I skill dflight. There's no real point in skill saving claws on a pure Ghost IMO, you just don't need em. The only places they could go are towards semi-useful things:

Put points in Shadow Master to increase the chance she's immune.
Put points in Weapon block so you don't lose 60% in some gear setups (like Fort/Bramble setup (this is what I did))
Put points in Dflight (IMO the last option)

Of course, you could get lvl 17 Talon, I just don't see the point. It's an anti-caster attack, and casters have terrible def anyway.

Summerfun

14-05-2007, 15:21

Quick Question!
Why is the general amu for a Ghost maras? I would think they were better of using a 2/15 like a hybrid?

HappyAssassin

14-05-2007, 20:36

Well, lets compare the mods on Maras/Arach vs. 2/15/Dungos:

Maras/Arach:
+3 All Skills
+5 All Attributes
+30 Resist All
20% FCR
Minor mods (small slow, mana % increase etc.)

2/15/Dungos:
+2 Sin Skills
+40 Vitality
15% DR
15% FCR
+13 Life Replenish
Whatever mods are on the ammy

Now, in the mara's setup we can't really count the +5 attributes because we don't want to build it in. In the Dungos setup, the 15% DR is useless, because we maxed fade and with enigma we have max DR anyway. That 40 Vitality is equivilent to 120 life, but BO won't affect that life. 3 levels of BO (from the 3 universal skills on Maras/Arach) give more than 120 life. Obviously +3 skills is better than +2, not to mention the minor bonus that they boost your WW level for a lil extra damage/AR. Oh, and 30 stack vs. none on the 2/15 setup. If the ammy is truly fantasitc (we're talking 2/15/Life/mana/Resists, all high rolls) it'll out pace maras, but the prefered belt would then be a crafted/rare belt. Dungos is pretty much dead weight on a ghost, except possibly in a bramble switch, and the more I think about that the more inclined I am to use a Ber circlet instead of the Dungos (and hit only 49 DR).

Summerfun

14-05-2007, 22:52

Thought it had something to do with maxed Fade it just came to my mind after the post.

But thanks anyway Ollie.

yelopen

15-05-2007, 00:34

clairetay

18-05-2007, 18:47

if i have a Coa, would it be better to use on a ww/trap or a ghost anyway? i already have a ww/trap using shako lolx coz of not qnough str... might rebuild but im not sure to go ghost or ww/trap lolx

Bune

19-05-2007, 07:28

A ghost already is able to reach max DR with fade and enigma alone, so that basically defeats the whole purpose of why it is a useful helm for a sin. It is much more useful on a WW/trap to help you achieve as much DR as possible... but in both cases a nice 2/20 sin circlet is much, MUCH better.

Smithenator

29-05-2007, 00:42

Mmk, lately my incompetence vs necros is becoming painfully evident. My problem it seems to me is that when I do a ww pass I get hit w/ enough spirits that I lose more %health than he does, any suggestions?

yelopen

29-05-2007, 01:20

Ollie, is this a good Fool's for a Ghost?

Runics
40IAS
Fool's
1Venom
1MB
Knockback (GG vs. Smiters?)
-30req!! Brings reqs to ~81 Str/Dex

Stick an Um in it?

I know it doesn't have any ED, but I think it has a lot of nice mods.

Do you recommend using this claw or Fury Runic with 2Venom/2DF as my Primary in pubbing?

HappyAssassin

30-05-2007, 04:12

I use a Fools in pub setup because there are so many paladins. I only switch to fury for anti-caster 1v1. That claw is fine until you find a better one.

Isaac, dueling necros is all about to triwhirl imo. Trying to setup a traplock and then tele in for WW/Kicks takes too long against a good FHR necro, and time spent near a good necro means you take damage. Try to NL them, maybe trap once or twice, then tele in and hold a good triwhirl. Even if they get lucky and get out of it, they'll take a lot of damage. If your triwhirl technique is good, you'll win. If you screw up you'll typically lose. Those WWs need to be SUPER tight.

Against a block necro you need to go back to traplocking before you tele in. This is why they're so tough, you CANT triwhirl them cold and expect a win everytime. It becomes a crapshoot. However, a block necro can't have the last FHR BP, they're stuck at 86, which will help. Ultimately, a 125/86/Block necro will always be a tough duel, around 50/50 if both people play right.

Smithenator

30-05-2007, 04:34

K, thanks.

Time to re-learn tri-whirls...yippee..

yelopen

30-05-2007, 05:31

I need to learn Tri-Whirls too >.<

What mods would make a Fool's Claw better? Would I need more +Venom or something? Or is it just that it has no ED? Because looking at your Fool's, the thing I'm missing is that 273 ED.

I dunno, if I decide to use this, I'm going to have to base my stats around it rather than around a regular Runic without -30reqs. Is this a respectable end game Fool's claw? Cause I have a T/O at 5 HR atm >.<

HappyAssassin

30-05-2007, 09:24

If you are going to get a Fools without ED, try to get one with a better Venom bonus. IMO I'd want a better Fools than that as a end game claw. It really doesn't cost you that much in stats to add dex for runics, at least personnally I always build in dex for Jade Talon on my sins, which is 105, only a 30 life difference to add 10 more to dex.

tuvard

30-05-2007, 09:55

I've never played a sin, but this sounds outright fun, maybe i will try it :smiley:

Btw, really nice guide

yelopen

31-05-2007, 00:29

AAdition

07-06-2007, 21:32

Which circlet should I use?

+2 SHADOW DISCIPLINES
20 FRW
20 FCR
7FHR/15 Res Jewel
24 Life
VISIONARY MOD AHHH!

OR this Circlet

+2 Sin Skills
20 FCR
96 AR
18 Life
7 FHR/15 Res jewel which puts res at 28
Magic Damage Reduction 1

I'm at a loss because the first helm doesn't have any base res to start with and it's only +2 to shadow skills where as it has the sought after visionary mod!

HappyAssassin

08-06-2007, 10:16

@tuvard: ty, I hope it works as well for you as it did for me :)

@ AAdition: Imo, use the second circlet. That +2 shadow hurts your traps quite a bit, the lack of resist is annoying, nearly the same life. I hope you make the 9 frame traps BP with that jewel btw, I guess you have a different IAS setup. The other circlet is a GREAT option for a bramble switch, visionary and FRW are mods that help a lot.

AAdition

08-06-2007, 16:21

Actually, I didn't and now you just reminded me that I have to switch that jewel :D

Edit: What IAS jewel should I socket it with? 15/??

HappyAssassin

08-06-2007, 21:23

15IAS/15Res all is the best option.

AAdition

11-06-2007, 05:23

My current claw set up is like this

Chaos Greater Talons
35% IAS

Fools Greater Talons
No IAS

My helm has 15IAS if I have my fools above my gloves the AR won't affect the WW will it? Because it doesn't display it in the window. I don't wish to get rid of my fools because it is

+3 LS
+1 DF
+1 Blade Fury
2os

Currently it has 2xUm's but I could socket it with 1x UM and a 15 IAS / ? jewel? or can I put this fools claw above my gloves and the AR will still be the same regardless of what it says on the screen? I'd really like to keep both UM's in there.

HappyAssassin

11-06-2007, 06:33

Fools claw needs to be your primary claw to work, though the actual mechanics are kinda messed up and there's been some debate about this. Regardless, put your Fools over your gloves, switch weapons, then switch back. Should show the AR boost.

You really need at least 30IAS on your claw with x2 Talons, that way the 15/15 will get you 9 frame traps. You could get that with x2 15ias jewels in your claw, but you will have very low OW. There's not much to be done about that except get a claw with IAS on it.

AAdition

11-06-2007, 06:38

That is most unfortunate, I love this claw :(

Stupidusernames

13-06-2007, 03:54

I found these rings ft on the trade forum but I'm not sure which one to get.

Rare Ring 10 fcr 14 str 4 mana 11 fire res
Rare Ring 10 fcr 87 ar 4 energy 41 mana 3 all res
Rare Ring 10fcr 3 max 27 ar 47 life 20 lightning res

and if you could tell me how much these things go for would also be of help.

Thanks.

HappyAssassin

13-06-2007, 04:52

The third ring is probobly the best for a WW/Trapper, the first is okay but I personnally don't like to build in my rings.

I can't PC that stuff, sry, I don't trade over diabloii.net.

Stupidusernames

13-06-2007, 05:07

alright thanks for the info. It's gonna take me some time to get all the money for the gear but it'll be fun to play the assassin.

TheRisingX

17-06-2007, 05:38

we should make an organized list of all ghosts and ww/trappers on USWEST Ladder so we can meet up for some nice SvS.

HappyAssassin

17-06-2007, 05:51

K, I'll make it in the PvP forum I think.

BlIzOrD

22-06-2007, 13:48

HappyAssassin, this is a very good guide. I built the Assassin right to specs except for claw (coulnt get a Fury and Fool's Claw). Thanks.. :)

I have on my character:
LEVEL: 82
- Ber-Ber COA (398def, 25resis, 30dr)
- Arachnid (111%ed)
- 9xTrap GC (1 with 38 life)
- Archon Enigma
- Raven Frost (206ar, 19dex)
- SOJ
- Shadow Dancers (+2 Skills, 25 dex)
- Trang Gloves
- Mara's Amy (29 Resis)
- Chaos Suwayyah (Damage: 177-236, PERFECT 355% SUPERIOR ED. + MB, +1LS, +3FADE)
- Chaos Claw (Damage: 81-170, 327% ED, +2 BOI, +3 LS)
- Assassin Torch (+3 Assassin skills, +12attributes, +16all resis)
- 3x 100psn /w +3% Faster Run Walk Small Charms
- 3x 100psn /w +16/+17/+18 Life Small Charms
- 3x 100psn /w +5% Faster Hit Recovery
- 1x 251psn Small Charm
- Annhilius (1/20/14/9)

All Resists are in the positives in hell. All skills that you wanted maxed are maxed. :) Great build, kills anything pretty good even without getting a Fury claw or Fool's Claw. You HAVE to be rich for this build IMHO though.

order

23-06-2007, 00:39

Ooi

01-07-2007, 14:50

yo i was wondering im low on skill points and i was wondering if i should put the rest of my points into shock web to increase my trap damage or put the rest of mypoints into fade to hit the 50 dr breakpoint?

basically its light damage vs. physical resistance.

any suggestions?

Smithenator

01-07-2007, 22:00

If you have under 45dr I would put the points into fade, otherwise shock web.

WithoutWings

03-07-2007, 21:55

I like the guide, but I was wondering if I could use Griffons,Spider, and Trangs gloves to reach the 65fcr break point replacing the FCR ring for another Ravens or anything with stats or absorb. I need some input on how this would work out. Also, what should I socket the Griffons with?

order

03-07-2007, 23:40

griffons can be used, but you will be loosing some of the benefits from having a sin circlet or a coa. most wwsins dont need to use sorb since clawblock should prevent most magical attacks from hitting your sin anyway. if you absolutely need sorb on your sin, it is much easier to swap out gear for tgods, snowclash, or hotspurs. if you do decide to go with a griffons, socket it with a 15ias/ 15res jewel unless you already meet the 9 frame trap laying speed.

WithoutWings

04-07-2007, 04:33

Yeah, I can't decide whether to go with Griffons or a circlet, but I'm sure the benefits from circlets aren't game breaking. I'll try them both and see which one suits me best I guess.

HappyAssassin

04-07-2007, 05:38

Possible benefits of a circlet can include large boosts to life, mana, an extra socket (a Ber or Jah is great for life or DR), huge saved stat points (especially if you use Dancers) and resists which griffons lacks. An extra raven + griffons is not nearly as good as fcr ring/ circlet.

Ooi

04-07-2007, 07:14

alright so basically im gunna use the coa for the helm however i got a question what to socket with because my fools mod claw looks like this:

Greater Talon
-2Sin skills
-1 to LS
-1 to DF
-Fools Mod
-1 os <<<<< should 40ed/15ias or 100ar/15ias it? b/c with the 15ias and 30ias from coa i can hit the fastest trap laying breakpoint. with the fools mod claw on my main weapon, instead of having chaos as my main.

For the COA:

SHould i Go 2x 15res/15ias? b/c of the trap laying breakpoint?
or should i just go 15res/-15req and ignore the breakpoint?

Thanks so much.

order

05-07-2007, 00:52

i would say just 2 x 15ias/15res your circ since you'll be using enigma and probably shadow dancers (which already have high str reqs). for your claw i would also stick with a 15ias/15res since the 40ed will only provide a minimal increase in damage and 100ar will not make a heavy difference on your sin since your already using a fools claw.

nex

05-07-2007, 15:59

Greater Talon
-2Sin skills
-1 to LS
-1 to DF
-Fools Mod
-1 os <<<<< should 40ed/15ias or 100ar/15ias it? b/c with the 15ias and 30ias from coa i can hit the fastest trap laying breakpoint. with the fools mod claw on my main weapon, instead of having chaos as my main.

I would sacrifice 9 frame trap laying and socket that claw with Um.

HappyAssassin

06-07-2007, 03:31

I would strongly recommend that you keep 9 frame trapping.

xfivetpc

14-07-2007, 14:07

Hello, would a superior 13% dura Greater Talon with +1 Venom +3 DF +3 Wake of Inferno be good for my Chaos claw? Also, I have a rare claw that I think is amazing, it has these mods:

exceptional hand scythe
30ias
297ed
248ar
1-2fire dmg
2df
2ls
2mb

should this be on my primary claw if i upp it?

CaptnSparrow

14-07-2007, 19:27

That claw isn't so bad, but hybrids are really desperate for +LS points, so it's hard to recommend it.

HappyAssassin

14-07-2007, 21:24

SicHalo

14-07-2007, 22:27

I would sacrifice 9 frame trap laying and socket that claw with Um.

no 9 frame is important on my recent sin im rebuilding i dueled for abit without 9 frame speed and vs certain chars especially casters not having that frame makes a difference it can make a hell of a difference on how well u lock up casters so always try to hit that 9 frame

As happy said the base claw is way to slow and requires alot of ias to get the 9 frame without BOS

TienJe

14-07-2007, 23:23

You can't speed bug with a Fools claw, it needs to be the primary. While the mods are nice, the base type of your claw ruins it. It's too slow for most setups. The Chaos claw on a WW/Trapper should really have +LS on it, it really helps damage (we're talking almost 1k for a 3LS claw).
i'm not sure if you're talking about his fools claw specifically or fools claws in general, but you can WSM bug a fools claw. as long as your fools is the faster of the two, it will work.

i.e. if you use a suwayyah chaos and a fools in a GT, you can bug your order so that the fools becomes your primary, so you get the +AR from fools and -45 WSM. i believe the ias BP for 9 frame traps for -45 WSM is 32% ias, so if your fools has of quickness mod, you'd be golden.

HappyAssassin

15-07-2007, 02:43

Yes that's true. I was refering to his particular claw, which can't be WSM bugged because its the slow one. Most of the time people want to speed bug with a slow fools claw, which doesn't work because it becomes secondary. IMO the reason for this is that its a lot easier to find a good socketable Greater, Feral or Runic than it is to find a fast claw with the Fools and the right secondary mods. In fact, the only time I see people using a slower chaos to bug with is when they use an ebug chaos, which are usually Suwayyahs. I spose anyone might be intereted in it, because it generally saves an IAS socket, but that's besides the point.

TienJe

15-07-2007, 02:56

darkelrond

19-07-2007, 07:48

ollie would u want to duel some time
?

HappyAssassin

19-07-2007, 10:38

Yeah sure, I'm not on too often but I'll whisp you when I do sign on to duel. Try me also, accounts *wwsin, *eXe_Ollie. and *catalyst-pvp

darkelrond

19-07-2007, 18:37

o yea mines xchimpo :p

xfivetpc

24-07-2007, 13:16

HappyAssassin, I have a +2 shadow +19 dex sdancer, is that good?

I also have a 6%LL, 9 all resist, 34 fire resist, 47 AR, 18STR, 13DEX ring, is that any good?

or is a 10%fcr,75AR, 4ml, 7ll, 66 mana ring better?

order

24-07-2007, 21:44

shadowdancers are good for this build.

use the fcr ring to achieve the 65fcr breakpoint, but maybe look for one with some better stats such as str, dex, life or res.

xfivetpc

24-07-2007, 21:50

order i'm going to use a 10%fcr sin helm, 15%+ fcr ammy, trang glove and arachnid which will = 65% fcr.

order

25-07-2007, 02:09

in that case u might think about using a shako + fcr ring or just using dual ravens.

RedemptioN

25-07-2007, 07:02

Helm: 2/20/27Str/11 Res All Circlet, 15Res/15IAS jewel
Amulet: Raven Emblem Crafted Amulet, 2/15/16Fire Res/15 Mana
Armor: 765 Enigma Dusk Shroud
Claw 1: Fury Feral Claws, +3 Lightning Sentry, +3 Venom
Claw 2: 306% Ed Chaos Greater Talons, +3 Lighting Sentry, +3 Venom
Gloves: Trang-Oul’s Claws
Belt: 40/15 Dungos
Boots: 2/25 Shadow Dancers
Ring 1: 236/20 Raven
Ring 2: Rare ring, 10% FCR, 30 Life, 11 Res all, 17 Light res

I'm wondering why you chose to go circ/dungo build on your sin when you can achieve more stacked res and fhr with CoA/Spider build.

HappyAssassin

25-07-2007, 08:41

Well,This is just the setup that works for me, I've tried CoA/Spider, I've even tried shako. The DR and skills are the same (though CoA/Arach adds a little ar/dmg to WW because the skills are universal), it comes down to FHR/Resists vs. Life. I choose life, which is helpful against all types of chars, vs. extra stack, which is useful only vs. Blizzers, Infinity Sorcs, Farcasters and FoHers. It's impossible to stack enough to counter conviction without gear switches anyway, the extra 30 res (roughly) gained from CoA just isn't worth it to me. Maybe it's my play style, but I haven't found FHR especially helpful. I do sometimes stack it (vs. very skilled defensive trappers), but its something I'd rather switch to than build in at the cost of life.

RedemptioN

25-07-2007, 10:56

I just figured since you're mostly a CASTER killer, stacked res would be more beneficial. I'm not telling you to change your build or even suggesting it, but I did some work of my own for my new sin and found that the CoA/Spider build loses about 200 life...but gives you an instant 50FHR (reaching 48fhr breakpoint without the use of lifer gcs which I didn't calculate in), and about 45 more res (assuming your circlet has base zero res but is then socketed with a 15res jewel).

Blizzers, Orbers, Fohers, V/ts, Infinity sorcs, Phoenix sorcs (underrated imo), and poison necs need extra stack. Now we're talking about 6 different builds that you're helping yourself against at the cost of 200 life.

Just putting it out there.

Moritz

25-07-2007, 17:20

I dont see why this build is mostly a caster killer. It can kill any single build in this game in GM dueling, while some builds are harder than others, of course.

As far as I am concerned, I can kill the vast majority of paladins, most barbs, and any melee char, if I dont get fully sorbed.

Good necros are pretty much as hard as good barbs, so imo it's quite balanced.

HappyAssassin

25-07-2007, 21:49

Maybe I should edit in a section of CoA/Arach and Circlet/Dungo with the pros and cons of each.

yelopen

25-07-2007, 21:55

Maybe I should edit in a section of CoA/Arach and Circlet/Dungo with the pros and cons of each.

Circlets ftw.

A WWsin isn't really a "caster killer". Sure, they own at killing casters, but it's more of an all around build for me.

RedemptioN

26-07-2007, 03:47

TienJe

26-07-2007, 04:16

It's just that I would never use a sin w/o 48fhr...And I personally wouldn't use Shadow Dancers (I'd use Imps which only give 20 fhr). This means that in combination with dungos, you're only getting 30FHR from gear. I don't really think it's worth it in the long run because then you have to take out a lifer gc and 2 scs for the 48fhr bp.

Sure, a circlet can have nice mods like life, mana, frw...but unless it's a rare 2 soc with those mods (SO expensive and difficult to find), it isn't worth it in my book. Note that this is all assuming you can't shael your circ because you need the 15ias/15res jewel in it for 9frame trap laying speed with 2 -30wsm claws.

BUT on the other hand...if you're ias bugging like I'll do on my newest sin, you guys might have a good point with the circlets. But honestly it's just hard for me to see that 40ish life from a circ (Idk how much max life a circ can get) can be better than res. The difference between 75% RES with conviction or Cold Mastery or w/e and say, even 70% RES is huge.

Comments?
well circlets can spawn with a bunch of +stats along with the +life, which will give you more than just 40 life.

as for the res/life trade off, its one of those things where its impossible to objectively compare the two. you can provide different scenarios where each one will out-perform the other.

however, my personal preference is with more life, given that you have max res. i've never felt the need to put on any stack vs elemental characters; i have hotspurs, nok, tgods, extra raven frosts in my stash, but have never once whipped them out for an actual duel. i actually feel its a bit unfair, since my ghost is already so well suited for killing the elemental characters. the characters that give me the most problems are the physical/magical chars, where the extra life will benefit me the most. now i have never really played a hybrid sin, but my guess would be that the same trend would be true.

RedemptioN

26-07-2007, 04:33

Edit: Nvm.

order

26-07-2007, 04:42

with my ww/ wof hybrid i already get complaints daily about sorb even though i dont own a single piece on my sin (except raven). clawblock takes care of everything your resistances cant. i have some built in stack against light elementals in my circ, fcr ring, boots, but i havent really had any other incidents where stacking psn, fire, or cold has been necessary. the extra life benefits my sin much more since i can survive for a much longer period of time against melee, magic, and elemental players.

RedemptioN

26-07-2007, 05:07

I just built my sin on Single Player with the 2 different builds. Both builds had 65fcr, 48fhr, ias bugged 9frame trap speeds.

CoA (Jah/-15req, 15res) / Spider gave me 4038life, 592 Mana
Circ (2Sin/20fcr/30frw/40Life...Shael'd) / Dungos gave me 3998Life, 560 Mana

Not to mention CoA gave me more res.
I think i'm sticking with CoA.

TienJe

26-07-2007, 05:28

if you jah your circlet and fhr the charms, you get more life. also, the frw mod is sort of wasted; you should probably put in +20 dex or something more useful.

the circlet setup you have there is definitely worse than the coa one, but its pretty gimped compared to what you can get.

HappyAssassin

26-07-2007, 06:09

IMO that comparison is pretty flawed. If you're trying to see the best possible life that's available on circlet vs. CoA, the circlet should have + dex and 2 sockets, which leaves space for x2 jahs (assuming that you IAS bug your claw, which I don't). I don't get the point of comparing a mediocre circlet setup with CoA, unless you happen to own that circlet and it's for your benefit. On my sin for example, the circlet is providing 27 STR, which is equal to 81 BOable life, 41 more than the example circlet and.

Also, as I stated, I don't run 48 FHR. While a CoA setup can come close to Circlet in a 48 FHR setup, my comparisions are based on a 48FHR CoA setup vs. a 30 FHR Circlet setup (one which isn't losing lifers for FHR). 48 FHR just happens to be inherent in a CoA setup.

I don't think it should be assumed that a hybrid should use resist boots. A well built hybrid already have over max'd resists in hell without them. Dancers not only give Dex that helps equip claws (ideally it shouldn't be needed, but even if you have GTs a Jade Talon needs 105 Dex), they give more FHR (as already noted), and +2 Shadow skills. Now, on a ghost, those skills aren't very important. On a WW/Trapper though, getting max DR is a matter of 23 + whatever Fade happens to be. Those two skills are 2% DR, not to mention potentially 1% claw block (depends on setup) and a few hundred more venom damage. If you really want 48 FHR on a circlet setup, you can sacrafice 2 SCs to get it (30+10+5+5).

Imma close by saying that I have 4192 life on my current sin, which is more than I've gotten with a CoA setup. She isn't even built for max life, she has dex and str added to be able to use Bramble. If you like the CoA, more power to yah, ultimately the difference between a circlet and CoA setup are small enough that it won't really matter with a good player.