HC worth it? :| [Archive] - Diablo: IncGamers Forums

Online

28-11-2006, 19:19

Hell , yes.

First of all , you will get much better at PvM. Now i rarely even get hit and my hearth starts beating madly if my life drops below 1/2. Also , you'll get good at pressing "4" and running away from baddies :tongue: .

And rewards? Well , you prove to yourself that you can beat the game without dying... Also , i'd suggest playing untwinked, makes game much more fun and interesting. My latest character (Act 5 hell ATM , expect a guardian thread) didnt do any magic finding and so far found some really good items , the best being eth bonehew from nm baal :smiley:

Conclusion : at least give HC a try. If you dont like the tension , you can always go back to SC. Time to time i make a SC character myself just to relax. It doesnt last too long tho , i usually delete it after few days.

Krikke

28-11-2006, 19:39

It's the only way.

scwormy

28-11-2006, 19:54

It entirely depends upon your ultimate goal.

I have a couple HC characters, 1 of which I've guardianed, the others died and it became very frustrating. Its a nice accomplishment to know that I beat the game w/o dying.

Personally, I still play primarily SC for a variety of reasons...two of which are when playing I'll often get distracted by my family.
Second - I will play while holding my daughter...therefore only really playing with one hand...not worth the risk in HC.

All in all, HC is very rewarding, but I'd rather be in hell than starting out new characters all the time. For me, I don't have the patience. I play for fun and therefore play SC the majority of the time.

My last character was an EXTREMELY twinked Blizzballer who played P8 and didn't die until after I had beating Hell Baal.

skunkbelly

28-11-2006, 19:54

Once you've experienced the rush of HC, the SC game feels weak. In fact, in my experience, once you've played HC, *any* game where you can die feels sort of weak.

Corrupted

28-11-2006, 20:05

It depends on how you look at it.

Personally I think there's no real difference between twinked HC and SC - in HC you just "work" alot, removing the challenge only to end up with a dead character due to an unlucky situation.

Untwinked Single-Pass HC - That I can relate to, while you may argue that it's quite random how well your character will do, due to the random factor with single-pass itemdrops it's still a fun challenge.

Fluffballer

28-11-2006, 20:37

For me, HC play is not for MFing or leveling etc. I only play untwinked single pass only and HC is simply a measure of if I can think my way into an original character finishing the game. It's the "figure out how to shove a square peg into a round hole using only these household items" a la Apollo 13. This is very rewarding.

I play SC like "arcade mode"; to slaughter things with Blizzards and MF and level as high as possible, etc. (usually while drunk :tongue:).

Hp_Sauce

28-11-2006, 21:10

HC > SC 99% of the time.

I just love the feeling of HC, like I'm actually accomplishing something when I've beat the game or found an item because I've done it without dieing! It's like a badge of honor for me... probably one that only I see, but that's all thats really important, it's what makes the game fun for me. And that's what's important in the end, is doing whatever you have to do to make the game fun.

I've thought about it quite a lot over the past and there is one reason I would return to SC. If someone (probably my brother) started playing the game, I would build a SC character with him rather then forcing him to play HC in hopes that he would learn the game and enjoy it as much as I do, rather then getting frustrated and quitting.

due to an unlucky situation.

Oh, and I don't believe there is a such thing as an "unlucky situation" when it comes to playing HC. If you died it's your own fault, you weren't paying attention, or you weren't prepared to handle something, or you made a silly choice. It's not a flaw in the game when it spawns really tough packs of monsters close together it's how the game is designed and rather then hoping for it to not happen I prefer to prepare for it.... Of course running away is sometimes a good idea too.

-hps

Milb

28-11-2006, 22:02

I think HC is definitely worth it. It has given the game a new life for me. Also, as mentioned, it makes you a far better PvM player.

You have to be prepared for dieing though, it can be quite a knock if you lose a high level twinked character. I've only had 3 losses so far but they have all been in Hell and one was quite expensive - Chains of Honor, Shako, Maras, Stormshield etc. It took me about a week to play the game again after that but to be honest I don't see the point in SC PvM as there is no risk.

The first time you face the Hell Ancients is also quite a rush, not only can you not leave but if you die thats it, it teaches you to prepare and you have to use every trick to survive.

cade88

28-11-2006, 22:15

hc is fun to play but I don't know why exactly I do it especially when i lose a char iv'e worked hard on. I guess I play it because I don't like going back to the same thing if it doesn't work.

HiTeknology

28-11-2006, 22:38

HC lives up to its name... hardcore.

Its up to you if its worth the rush.

bradley_turner

28-11-2006, 22:40

Back when I played on the realms (about 3 years ago now) I used to play exclusively hardcore, and thought that it was "the only way to play" but after awhile I kind of realized that it didn't really matter, because you never really die anyways if you pay attention and play well. I don't know, it's really a personal preference thing, I know that when I get my laptop, and can install D2 again (using my roomates computer) I'm probably gonna only start HC chars from now on.

kabal

28-11-2006, 22:46

I think you have to ask yourself what is it about the game that you really enjoy. Personally, I'll always be a SC player because only two things in D2 still hold my interest: character progression and PvP. By character progression, I mean making characters progressively stronger through leveling/gear upgrades, so that ties in naturally with PvP. With that said, I think I'm reaching the end limit of character progression as well. My hammerdin sits at level 98.5 (where he's been for about ~5 months) and I have just about all the items that I think are worth having, which is why I haven't been trading or MF'ing for a few months. So the only thing that's really left for me in D2 is PvP, and even with PvP I'm less active than I was a year ago.

So why not start HC? Primarily because that means starting over, and starting over conflicts with character progression. Until I find something I've never had before or reach a higher level than I've ever reached before, it feels like I'm slogging back to where I was rather than making progress. Even now when I make a new character in SC, I power level it by leeching on my hammerdin's Baal runs rather than actually playing it through the game. As for PvP, that's completely non-existant in SP HC. It might be possible to set up HC LLD or even HLD with cheaper items, but to me that still feels like a step backwards in character progression when I'm currently dueling with Enigma, eBotD, CtA, etc.

In a nutshell, whatever I do in D2 has to be bigger and better than what I did previously, so that means building upon what I've already done rather than starting over. I think people with this sort of outlook are relatively rare at the SPF, but if you're one of them then I recommend sticking with SC (since it seems like you're pretty far along in progression in SC already).

Semi-tangent for the WoW players: My housemate is raiding Naxxramas with his guild (i.e. hardest monsters and best characters/gear the game currently has to offer), and he tells me that my playstyle is much more suited to WoW rather than D2 where end-game content has stagnated. I think his point is pretty valid, but not valid enough to justify paying $15 per month.

Ankeli

28-11-2006, 23:51

As stated, it's a twin edged blade. If you manage it, it rewards you, gives you thrills and adrenaline rushes and a feeling of actually accomplishing something. Then again, I've ripped my share of hair out of my head with it as well... :prop:

Don't think, just create the char and go quest :heart:

Corrupted

28-11-2006, 23:57

Oh, and I don't believe there is a such thing as an "unlucky situation" when it comes to playing HC. If you died it's your own fault, you weren't paying attention, or you weren't prepared to handle something, or you made a silly choice. It's not a flaw in the game when it spawns really tough packs of monsters close together it's how the game is designed and rather then hoping for it to not happen I prefer to prepare for it.... Of course running away is sometimes a good idea too.
-hps

My point was, playing twinked and being skilled means that you survive easily most of the time. But one day you teleport right on top of a Conviction gloam pack or a strong/fana frenzytaur pack - and then it hardly matters how much you "prepared" your character for that.
The solution to that might be playing at a slower/safer pace which will only make it addiotinally boring as when you twink you do it to maximize your efficiency and speed.

Ohomemgrande

29-11-2006, 00:08

Before Diablo there was Rogue, Hack, Angaband, Nethack (my favorite game ever) etc. and hardcore was the only way to play. Not to mention that those games are much, much harder than Diablo (you're always one move away from instadeath) so the thought of dying in Diablo is no big deal to me. As someone put it earlier, Softcore is Arcade style and Hardcore is where the challenge is. It makes you a better player.

If you want to try out HC, go with one of the wacky tournaments out there. You know you probably don't have a very good chance of finishing the game but you'll probably have fun anyway.

Personally I enjoy both SC & HC depending on my mood.

-Jason
Play HC, Play HC, Play HC

Shagsbeard

29-11-2006, 00:11

Hp_Sauce

29-11-2006, 00:18

Wait, I thought of something...

Do you like roller coasters? A lot of people like them for the thrill and the rush, and the fear. Waiting in line is exciting but nerve racking at the same time because you aren't sure what to expect, but you wanna find out! you wanna try it! And then when you get off and it's over it was all just for fun and you can't stop smiling even though you're shaking at the same time!

Now go stand in front of the Alter on the Arreat Summit in hell and this is pretty much how you will feel as you're trying to work up the courage to hit it and spawn the Ancients. After It's over you will be shaking, but you wont be able to stop smiling either!

GG HC for eva!

I was actually giddy like a little school child after my first fight with the Ubers on USEast, it was ficken awsome!

-hps

p.s. Stop laughing at me!

jiansonz

29-11-2006, 00:31

I've often expressed my wish that bliz would have come up with a number of different flags for us to choose from instead of simply SC vs HC. Single Pass vs. unlimitted runs would be a great flag. Twinkable vs. Untwinkable would be good too, if they encorped a versitile muling application like ATMA.

I'd love to see "Exit in Town Only" as an option... this makes HC much more challenging than the current "slap Esc when ever you feel like it".

With more than one option we could really customize the game to suit our playstyle.

This is exactly what I am missing the most in this game! A great idea. Highest on my wish list would be:

* No respawning of monsters between games.
I despise the fact that when I load up a character, I (nearly) always have to run past or kill some monsters in an area I have already cleared, so I can get on with the game where I left off...This "transport" can be bloody dangerous too, especially in Hell.

* Items in town should not disappear between games (or ever, for that matter!)

* No limit to the amount of gold you can have in the stash. The current limit is just a stupid "feature", if you don´t twink. It forces the player into premature gambling.

Boulos

29-11-2006, 00:57

I usually play SC, but was getting bored with destroying things with my Meteorb. So, I started a HC Sorc. She died late in Normal and it was a real shock. So, I started a nwe HC Meteorb and put more of a focus on Vitality. I've got her in Act III NM at the moment and she's still going strong on P8. I mule anything good that drops off of her, so if she dies...at least she contributed to my HC Stash. I love the excitement of knowing that if I die, that's it. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. I think it's what makes HC fun for all of us that are hooked, old and new.

janmaxim

29-11-2006, 01:45

For me HC is the only way to go, I've played HC exclusively since D2 1.03 patch on battle.net.. Oh I remember those times.. 56k modem and frequent disconnects.. I still remember when I lost my zealot in CS because of a disconnect :P

In LoD I started to get into HC dueling.. THAT is THE best adrenaline rush you will get from this game.. a duel to the death!

I started playing SP again, thinking of starting on battle.net after christmas.

Nerigazh

29-11-2006, 03:12

Man, lots of good input here... makes me want to try it, if I can just get over being a sissy!

I would be starting off untwinked, as I don't have a HC stash yet, so I'm thinking of doing something fairly safe first, sorc probably. One of my personal rules is to never play the same build twice though, HC notwithstanding, and as I've already played meteorb, fishymancer and javazon, it'll make HC a bit _more_ interesting... *shudder*

VCrow

29-11-2006, 03:53

As I'm now approaching my "sept" of mats/pats, I was thinking about starting HC. Just last night though, I died in the CS on my zealot, and was thinking to myself, "Man, if this had been HC, that would have been IT. After so much time invested on this character..."

I'd like some opinions from SP HCers... are the rewards (satisfaction?) worth the risk?

Yes. I wouldn't play Diablo II on softcore. I would have lost interest years ago, I'm only playing again now because permanent death is a risk that makes a defensive style of character like a summoner very fun to play. Think about it: what's the point of a concetrate barbarian on softcore? Now think about it on hardcore: what's the point of playing any other barbarian? They'll just get ganked. (Exaggeration but it proves the point.)

My goal is a level 99 necromancer; level 88 so 1% of the way there! :tongue: I haven't lost more than one character, my first attempt at a MF blizz sorc, at level 18 due to impatience. My second attempt is level 80 guardian who is running NM Andariel for SoJ's. Just be weeelly, weeelly caarreful. We're hunting wabbits!

I highly, highly, very strongly recommend not transferring *anything* from softcore to hardcore because it will prevent you from trading with the hardcore-only players like myself.

@ Milb: What do you mean, "you cannot leave hell ancients"? Does that mean town portal doesn't work? On my two guardians I haven't actually tried to leave during the fight. ;p

@ Corrupted: That is why I don't teleport blind. It will inevitably lead to death. My only exception right now is NM Andariel, and even there I'm careful: my path down to cats 4 has no monsters on it usually because it's so close, and I'm very careful when teleporting into Andariel's room.

Sorceress just isn't very safe for hardcore, because of teleport and low life. It's liable to get a player killed for any carelessness. I would recommend a frost zealot; just remember to acquire crushing blow to complement your frost damage, and get a defiance mercenary to complement your maxed holy shield with maxed defiance synergy. Get a load of vitality on him too since you're getting three hit points per vitality, and holy shield will add 35% to your block (don't forget to include it when calculating necessary dex). ^_^

Hp_Sauce

29-11-2006, 04:02

so I'm thinking of doing something fairly safe first, sorc probably.

That is a contradiction of terms. Sorcs are not that safe.
and...

One of my personal rules is to never play the same build twice though, HC notwithstanding, and as I've already played meteorb, fishymancer and javazon, it'll make HC a bit _more_ interesting... *shudder*

This is just setting yourself up for a fall, which will result in frustration, which will result in boredom, which will result in you giving up HC. It's generally bad form to start HC with a gimped character right from the start, build something you know, build something that doesn't require godly gear, and build something that is safe. I have nothing against your personal rules, but I would make an exception for your first few HC characters.

-hps

jiansonz

29-11-2006, 07:53

Sorceress just isn't very safe for hardcore, because of teleport and low life.

Huh? For me, Teleport increases safety, a lot. I can easily place my merc wherever I want, and I can retreat way faster than what´s possible otherwise. Splitting up dangerous packs is often easy.

To offset all that goodness, there has been a few times where I have not pressed a hotkey for an attack skill well enough, meaning I still had TP active when tried to spam a skill on a monster pack! However, that has not killed me yet...

It´s true that sorceresses do not get much life. It´s often necessary to give priority to +life charms, 'of the Whale'-items and sometimes also put rubies in armor/helm.

Regarding Hp_Sauce´s advice:
I agree with most of it, but I like to add a recommendation: go untwinked. That way you will not lose any 'item progress' when a character dies (because there will be none to lose...).

waflob

29-11-2006, 07:54

Oh, and I don't believe there is a such thing as an "unlucky situation" when it comes to playing HC. If you died it's your own fault, you weren't paying attention, or you weren't prepared to handle something, or you made a silly choice.
I agree with this (almost). Running into an unscouted room or area, with sub-optimal resists etc is just asking for trouble.

However, please tell me how you avoid that lame Blizzard scam, namely the trapped stairs. I don't usually lose too many HC chars and I do admit that stupidity and/or carelessness is usually the cause. But, virtually all of my skelliemancers have died during Baal runs. Go down some stairs, boss pack of dolls and deeds. How do I prepare for this, or safely react to it when it happens ?

Please ?

DelBoy

jiansonz

29-11-2006, 08:17

However, please tell me how you avoid that lame Blizzard scam, namely the trapped stairs. I don't usually lose too many HC chars and I do admit that stupidity and/or carelessness is usually the cause. But, virtually all of my skelliemancers have died during Baal runs. Go down some stairs, boss pack of dolls and deeds.

That´s the Throne level, right? On the other WSK levels, there is at least a small space by the stairs that´s always calm but not so on the last level. Frenzytaurs, snakes, Burning Souls, Assailants, etc. also have killer stairs trap potential.

How do I prepare for this, or safely react to it when it happens?

The best you can do is have a high level Dim Vision and always cast one or two immediately when you enter (before you react to whether there are monsters or not!), then a quick switch to Terror and be ready to cast that, to run or to summon a golem in front of a nasty boss. Or a combination of all!

Assassins should use Cloak of Shadows right when they enter, then be ready with Mind Blast.

Any character can use CoS if they have a 'Nadir' helm. That is my standard procedure in stairs trap areas on Hell for amazons and some sorceresses (would be for druid and paladin too, but I have not reached Hell with either class). It won´t help if you get dumped right in the middle of a Champion pack of Frenzytaurs/Snakes/Dolls, though...

Here are the stairs trap prone areas in D2:
* The Forgotten Tower in act 1 (all five levels)
* The temples in Kurast (all six of them)
* The Throne of Destruction

There are other areas where multiple boss packs can lurk just two screens away and if there is no safe place to retreat to it can certainly go downhill in a hurry, but the above 12 areas are the only ones where you can get placed right in the middle of a boss pack (well, there are the Evil Urns too, of course.)

Milb

29-11-2006, 08:25

@ Milb: What do you mean, "you cannot leave hell ancients"? Does that mean town portal doesn't work? On my two guardians I haven't actually tried to leave during the fight. ;p

I mean you can't tp out then walk back in and still have them spawned, once you spawn them and try and kill them you can't just go back to town, resurrect merc / army, repair your equipment and replace your potions. You have to be really prepared. I know that at least half my softcore characters died at the Ancients, half the time getting 1 or 2 hit killed by a Whirlwind, but so far, I still haven't lost a character there in HC :cool:

I've had a Hell Ancient fight lasting about 30 minutes once, and all the potions on the floor disappeared as there had been there too long and I ran out of mana, that was quite fun :smiley:

kanonfutter

29-11-2006, 08:26

I think it is quite dependant on the amount of time you have to play. I split my sparse game time between Infiltration (http://forums.beyondunreal.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=19) and D2, so the time lost playing hardcore and dying would be a turn-off. I think that the name hardcore is quite apt, as I definitly do not belong to the hardcore fans of D2. That would imply time and dedication, but I just bash in a couple of heads to relax.

-Kanonfutter

waflob

29-11-2006, 13:19

That´s the Throne level, right? On the other WSK levels, there is at least a small space by the stairs that´s always calm but not so on the last level. Frenzytaurs, snakes, Burning Souls, Assailants, etc. also have killer stairs trap potential.

Yes, that's the one I meant.

Your suggestions are all good, but my usual scenario is that before the screen has loaded, the skellies have already killed half of the dolls and the resulting pops causes deeds.

Maybe the answer is to not try soloing Baal with a skelliemancer :-)

DelBoy

oakienko

29-11-2006, 14:48

Yes, that's the one I meant.

Your suggestions are all good, but my usual scenario is that before the screen has loaded, the skellies have already killed half of the dolls and the resulting pops causes deeds.

Maybe the answer is to not try soloing Baal with a skelliemancer :-)

DelBoy

This is going to sound silly, but the reason why I don't play p1 is because of those dolls when playing a generally low to mid hp characters. try a p5 or p8 in durance or the throne next time, you'll have more time to react to those shrapnel bombs :wink3:

It is worth it to play HC, even if to just try it. You will find yourself adjusting your strategies to the monsters you deal with and escape tactics you would never use in SC (what's a town portal?)

Hp_Sauce

29-11-2006, 17:44

If you really wanna get good at the game, play HC with one and only one Eth Skin of the Viper Magi on your sorc, and try to get through the game without breaking it. Or if you think that's too easy try to get through all of Hell while only losing 3 durability or something like that.

I mean, I thought I was good at not getting hit too much, but when every durability counts you really start to notice where the hits are coming from, and how often you do something foolish and take a hit because of it. Those damned Blow Dart guys took me for 3 durability on my way through Hell act 3, I can't wait til I find another Viper Magi!

-hps

Milb

29-11-2006, 17:49

jiansonz

29-11-2006, 19:10

Your suggestions are all good, but my usual scenario is that before the screen has loaded, the skellies have already killed half of the dolls and the resulting pops causes deeds.

Maybe the answer is to not try soloing Baal with a skelliemancer :-)

DelBoy

Easy solution: don´t bring an army. :azn:

Hp_Sauce

29-11-2006, 19:39

I actually had to try that, I found an eth Vipermagi from NM Meph in the UGT, it lasted me until Act 5 Hell where I got impatient and died whilst trying to tele past Act 5 just to get her to Guardian status.

It still had 8 of 13 durability left

Nice!

My Sorc just finished rescuing Anya in Hell and her's only has 5 of 13 durability left on it. I've been Mf'ing madly to try and find a replacement for it but I think all I'm accomplishing is taking more hits while I tele to Meph. Oh well, it's still fun to try and dodge everything when fighting.

-hps