View Full Version : Bva or bvc?
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 19:21
I'm wondering wince one to go with...
I am going to use a one socket coa as my helm...
21 dr.
With stormshield it would be exactly 51... with enigma 59.
If I went bvc...
29 dr is all I would have...
Which would be better?
moonlike
28-11-2006, 19:23
make bvc -.-
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 19:31
make bvc -.-
...
Don't just answer randomly... give some reasoning.
A BvA is just a BvC with less life that won't beat the better BvBs anyways. You will end up lacking in Leap (due to needing to minimize the points) and/or increased speed and Nat Res. Which is bad.
If you insist on beating everything, you can just use an Umed Widowmaker with Draculs, an OW belt and gores when dueling BvBs. Nets you 70% OW total. Or you could just use the swap trick; swap to your other weaponset while the arrows are still in mid-air and the effects (such as ow, cb and ds) carry on to your arrows. Use a Fury on primary, net's you 100% OW.
Also, on a BvA you shouldn't be using CoA + Stormshield. Stormshield has 35% IAS btw. 35 + 15 =50%.
Even with the best possible gear and abusement of Hsarus, Arreat's and Enigma while in BvA mode will net you a loss of 56 or 46 stat points, which is either 535 life at most and 440 at most. Not worth it. Plus, you lose a lot of skill points.
You will just be a weak BvC and a weak BvB.
XDoomasX
28-11-2006, 20:05
nevermind.
morotsjos
28-11-2006, 20:15
I'm wondering wince one to go with...
I am going to use a one socket coa as my helm...
21 dr.
With stormshield it would be exactly 51... with enigma 59.
If I went bvc...
29 dr is all I would have...
Which would be better?
difference is that you do half damage with storm.
I think Ce Olba made it pretty clear.
difference is that you do half damage with storm.
However, you have to take notice of the fact even BvAs do not use Stormshield too often.
Thoridian
28-11-2006, 21:20
U wont beat any good bvb with a bva anyway so why bother ever making it? And the only char vs who youd find shield as something would be a bowzon which is beatable with grief + beast if ur good enough and if not then 2 dooms > any amazon...
Uncle_Mike
28-11-2006, 21:42
make bvc -.-
I second that, reasoning is given in other posts.
Mike
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 21:44
U wont beat any good bvb with a bva anyway so why bother ever making it? And the only char vs who youd find shield as something would be a bowzon which is beatable with grief + beast if ur good enough and if not then 2 dooms > any amazon...
The reason I'd choose BvA over BvC is that it's almost impossible to get a good coa that's legit on west... and I didn't know how important the dr was.
I guess bvc is still the better choice.
What about wolves? Wouldn't the bva do better against them? And mortojos... please don't answer.
The reason I'd choose BvA over BvC is that it's almost impossible to get a good coa that's legit on west... and I didn't know how important the dr was.
Both of the builds need a good CoA, so what are you running from?
What about wolves? Wouldn't the bva do better against them? And mortojos... please don't answer.
They are very beatable with a BvC. As for a BvA, it might be slightly safer, counting in blocking and the fact that Fury is interruptable.
Dennis_KoreanGuy
28-11-2006, 21:49
BvC should be called BvA and original BvA should be scrapped imo.
make C. Seems to me all the reasons have been posted.
BvC should be called BvA and original BvA should be scrapped imo.
make C. Seems to me all the reasons have been posted.
The current BvA is actually just a teleporting BvB with points in Leap.
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 21:51
The current BvA is actually just a teleporting BvB with points in Leap.
Say what ?
morotsjos
28-11-2006, 21:52
Both of the builds need a good CoA, so what are you running from?
They are very beatable with a BvC. As for a BvA, it might be slightly safer, counting in blocking and the fact that Fury is interruptable.
shield sucks, good luck killing off summons fast enough.
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 21:53
Both of the builds need a good CoA, so what are you running from?
They are very beatable with a BvC. As for a BvA, it might be slightly safer, counting in blocking and the fact that Fury is interruptable.
I have a one socket coa. If I make a bva, then I have max dr. But bvc will not have it.
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 21:53
shield sucks, good luck killing off summons fast enough.
The summons won't be stacked on top of him... can't you just leap them aside?
shield sucks, good luck killing off summons fast enough.
Not like it matters with an attacker who's attack can be interrupted. Plus the minions provide life Leech. Or you can just howl them, and if the wolf starts to re-cast at all, he is as good as dead.
I have a one socket coa. If I make a bva, then I have max dr. But bvc will not have it.
How will you have max DR unless you plan to use Stormshield on all times, making you a teleporting BvB trash? And not a single BvC has max DR without changing from the pub setup (31 + 8 = 39, not 50)
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 21:55
Not like it matters with an attacker who's attack can be interrupted. Plus the minions provide life Leech. Or you can just howl them, and if the wolf starts to re-cast at all, he is as good as dead.
Al right , al right.
What about AR? How much ar is a good point to reach? I'll be using demon limb so I can save some charms.
Al right , al right.
What about AR? How much ar is a good point to reach? I'll be using demon limb so I can save some charms.
Well, enough so that you have a pretty good chance to hit versus a bonemancer of lvl 99 with your caster rings, yet enough to hit a lvl 99 high defense hammerdin with your anti-hammerdin setup (be it angelics or ravens or ravens + hsarus). And no, you should not count on Demon Limb at any time for AR, you will just end up being a damn weakling that way. You should have 9-1nK Ar with your pub setup (n being any number from 0 upwards)
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 22:04
Well, enough so that you have a pretty good chance to hit versus a bonemancer of lvl 99 with your caster rings, yet enough to hit a lvl 99 high defense hammerdin with your anti-hammerdin setup (be it angelics or ravens or ravens + hsarus). And no, you should not count on Demon Limb at any time for AR, you will just end up being a damn weakling that way. You should have 9-1nK Ar with your pub setup (n being any number from 0 upwards)
Why not use demon? Self appearance? I just want to use so that I can save a couple of runes on charms...
Why not use demon? Self appearance? I just want to use so that I can save a couple of runes on charms...
Because it's a limited source and depending on prebuff shows that you are weak.
Also trying to save up on a PvP character is one of the worst ideas you can ever have. I mean, if it goes to such distances as not having any +AR from charms and using a demonlimb instead (which btw will net you ~9300 AR with perfect ravens and 137 dex total, compared to having 10442 AR with just +600 AR from items with no demonlimb)
morotsjos
28-11-2006, 22:34
The summons won't be stacked on top of him... can't you just leap them aside?
of course, but then you'll knock back the druid and give him time to recast. good druids will always make sure to keep 2-4 summons within your ww-range which means that most of your hits will be wasted, which is why two weapons are important (apart from more than doubling your effective damage output).
of course, but then you'll knock back the druid and give him time to recast. good druids will always make sure to keep 2-4 summons within your ww-range which means that most of your hits will be wasted, which is why two weapons are important (apart from more than doubling your effective damage output).
And that's why Howl>Leap versus anything with Summons. However, a combination is the best.
You could also abuse the fact that he has summons by having a warcry/lifetap knife on switch. Makes them cry "BM" pretty nicely.
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 22:47
Because it's a limited source and depending on prebuff shows that you are weak.
Also trying to save up on a PvP character is one of the worst ideas you can ever have. I mean, if it goes to such distances as not having any +AR from charms and using a demonlimb instead (which btw will net you ~9300 AR with perfect ravens and 137 dex total, compared to having 10442 AR with just +600 AR from items with no demonlimb)
I won't have NO ar charms... Just a lower number of them. USWest ladder,
arach = 7 hrs. Prices are screwed up... you can't get a decent GC with 7oar/20life or more without wasting 20 hrs... on a single GC.
So I want to have an impaired amount that'll get me by until I get enough wealth to spend that much. But I get the point... about 9k AR for anything but a hammerdin/smiter... and more for them.
Also, if they run, dosn't that make them have less def?
morotsjos
28-11-2006, 23:03
And that's why Howl>Leap versus anything with Summons. However, a combination is the best.
You could also abuse the fact that he has summons by having a warcry/lifetap knife on switch. Makes them cry "BM" pretty nicely.
i dont disgrace myself by dueling that way.
Uchiha Sasuke
28-11-2006, 23:14
i dont disgrace myself by dueling that way.
How is howl bad? Or do you mean the life tap thing... 'coz that's just ***. :rolleyes:
Thoridian
29-11-2006, 13:19
Al right , al right.
What about AR? How much ar is a good point to reach? I'll be using demon limb so I can save some charms.
+- 10k with ravens
25k+ vs hammerdins with arreats + angelics
Also, if they run, dosn't that make them have less def?
When they run, their defense goes to zero - same goes for when charging, though def is kept when in whirlwind. Also, block gets cut to 1/3 - and in the case of assassins, they have no block.
How is howl bad? Or do you mean the life tap thing... 'coz that's just ***.
He meant the life tap thing. Life tapping minions, IMO, is just cheap. Some people would do it though, and if that's their thing, whatever. That's a good reason for the druid to keep spirit wolves at low life, less can be leeched from them. For example, with zero points in spirit wolf and +10 skills, according to the skill planner, a spirit wolf packs 60-82 life. If they can leech 50% of their damage off of each wolf, that's 40x5=200 life. Annoying, but handleable.
With a single point into spirit wolf (necessary for bear if you're getting one), that goes up to 240-328 life. If they can leech half of THAT, that's 150x5 = 750. Much less pleasant for the druid. Not to mention what they can suck off of the druid himself.
How is howl bad? Or do you mean the life tap thing... 'coz that's just ***. :rolleyes:
He probably means lifetap. Howl just cant be bad.
oneBlast
29-11-2006, 13:49
Once I've met a windy that wanted a priv duells.
When he got beaten 3-0, he said he will change his "tactic" to "better" one.
So we went out, said ".g".
When I got him on my screen (played offensive) he cast "IM" while I was ending leap animation.
Guess what happened when I tele'd on him the same second?
I got LT wand which he said would be BM, "zomg"
The point is... erm... LT is sometimes usefull... I think.
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