BladeFury any good?

[Dalmar]

i saw this skill used in a guide for kicksin.

my question is:
Does this skill kill actually kill in hell with 3/4 weapon dmg?
and why would a kicksin want it when u can kick for more damage?

thanks in advance

[Silent Shaddow]

i have for along time been fully against that skill
the reason was basically the same as yours, it has huge ar problems, cluckly and annoying to use and kicking deals dmg faster,

i have slightly changed my mined...
i was running around the throne the last wave was chasing me...:shocked: (lister had some nasty mods)
wearing down their life when i decided to give blade fury ago...
coupled with my BoS and the -50% ar on the lawbringer i could hit about 1 in 5 hits... after a while i could get them decrefied which allowed my to go in and kickem 2 death

and thats the only time i have eva eva eva eva eva eva used blade fury to any good effect (and i could have done it just as easy with out)
my belief is that unless you build you entire build around BF (for fun) then it might be sensible but it still wont be easy

other than that you can still adapt to stituations with all ur normal skills.. ie CoS, Mb, Dsentry....

[Dalmar]

great, thanks for sharing your exp with us :)

[yiuman]

my belief is that unless you build you entire build around BF (for fun) then it might be sensible but it still wont be easy

I think that BF is a great skill but you need to build your assassin with it in mind (or at least build your switch equipment with it in mind). The beauty of BF is that it carrys effects like CB, CtC etc and doesn't require any IAS.

It also doesn't use durablity so its a great place for those ethereal uniques that are useless on other builds (ethereal gimmers for example). I'd recomend though something that has a CtC static field though (cresent moon, sheafers, stormlash - ethereal if possible) or lots of elemental damage (gimmers, barnars star, rift, famine etc and a tiamats rebuke shield). Venom helps too.

There are many ways to get around the AR - , ITD, a blessed aim merc, conviction (Infinity rw), angelics -% traget def, etc but without at least one of those you're going to struggle.

As it doesn't require IAS you can use fade instead of BoS to help resists/%DR and only requires 2 skill points to be effective.

As to why a kicksin would want it (on switch I'd suggest) there are times when a ranged attack is very useful - Chaos sanctuary for example.

[albertmalich]

A Blade Fury sin will never rival the killing speeds of Hammerdins or similarly powerfull builds, but they can solo Hell without too much trouble, and with fairly cheap equipment (Perfect Gems or Crafting/Spirit runes)

Killing stuff : preferably lots of Crushing Blow and decent damage to make a few first corpses, then Death Sentry to level the crowd. Playing without Death Sentry is a lot slower, but very well possible too. Venom can up the damage a bit, but keep in mind its poison.

Staying alive : next to your merc, you can have one of the best Minions in the game. You have a ranged attack. Cloak of Shadows is awesome to make sure that the monsters dont even see you, and if its too late for that, Mind Blast can take over with stunning/converting.

If I recall correctly, there is a nice guide in this forum or in the strategy section of this site.

[Frankeinstein]

For Pvm a furysin is very viable. I have a lvl 89 one & she does quite well in hell act 5. They are gear dependant but then what build isn't. I used a gimmershred for the longest time till i got a Stormlash.

Every once in a while I go back to the axe cause of all the elemental dmg.

Demon limb is great for Enchant & AR boost. Get a HF merc & equip him with at least a bonehew (mine has eth bonehew & 2 AMN's, gaze & duriel's shell)

Max Shad Master & yo have 2 tankks working for yea. DS & your good to go.

Best part of Furysin is the ranged attack. I sit back in the throne room while my minions tank lister & his opack while I set off Ds & spam bladefury w/ a lvl 30 or so Venom.

Yep follow the fsin guide stickied. There is a great dbeate over the Fsin in another thread. There are some "updates" mentioned that could make the build even better due to the patch.

Try it out. I have experimented w/ different armors & weapons to get where mine is at now. Still tweaking it. Currently I use her for eth & socket running (no mf at all). Seems I have the best chance of eth & socket finding if I have 0%mf.

[Silent Shaddow]

1. i had a really good point
2. ive forgotten it
3. ive remembered it
4. for chaos santuary use lawbringer/azurewrath for santaury aura knocks everything back and makes them push overs....:grin:
5. as i siad before... if bf was a really good skill then id use it.. but its not tbh, i found 1 use for it in the entire game and tbh thats not good enough for me i could have had those points in a trap synergy for heavens sakes
6. u mentioned hammerdins are faster than BFsins but the point i was trying to make above is that the the kicksin dalmer is building wil b > blade fury...
7. kicks are way kewler...

[Kijya]

You can throw invisible bf's by starting casting them and then start running just before the first blade is thrown ... one at a time, slow but way cool :laugh:

but on a kicker it would only be used when imed at most, not really worth the points unless you don't have anything else you'd find usefull, or wan't blade shield for its coolness factor (hey anyone see difference between master and me? :laugh:)

[Gabbana]

yes.. there is builds that kill way faster.. but this build offers you great safety with cos, mb and ranged attack

but tbh its a fun build.. its a tactical build.. and its a pvm build.. not one you choose for your first diablo char

[BIGeyedBUG]

I find it useful and fun, particularly for hc, and even on builds that aren't optimized for it. Pretty much the only mainstream 'sin I wouldn't bother with putting it on would be a LS/FB trapper.

My standards for a skill being useful are low, however.

[Dalmar]

wow guys thanks for all the nice info!

i asked this in a diffrent thread but i think ill ask here too.
Dragon tail: should i consider maxing it for physical immunes?
considering i wont be spending on bladefury.

[BIGeyedBUG]

The splash component of Dtail is based on the physical damage done to the release target *after* resists. So normally it's not a PI solution at all.

[SSoG]

Imagine if there was an Amazon skill that let her strafe with any weapon in the game (not just bows). Congratulations, that's Blade Fury. Sure, it has the 3/4 damage penalty, but 1-handers + BF will still deal more damage than bows.

[Dalmar]

ok i guess i will think of Bfury as a 1pt wonder :)

[ilkori]

It is. It gets 'worse' when you add points.

Not sure what Silent Shadow's problem with it is. There are plenty of ways to get around the AR issues. For 1 point (or 3, depending on how you count), it's a great investment to find out for yourself.

[Frankeinstein]

Use a demon limb & your AR issues will be resolved. The cast time is like 10 minutes. Adds fire dmg & you can cast on your minions & others (Others in party if not in town) Spendy to repair but still worth it IMO.

I use it in town, put back in stash & go out killing. i figure I travel back to town enough anyway selling items & dropping off stuff that I can save the 3 slots in the pack for charms. Then I can keep my dual shad claws for recasting SM, Fade & Venom (+6 shad tree skills)

[Syphilis]

Why not using 2H weap for more dmg ?
Is it cut half ?

edit : and does a might merc add to your BF dmg ?

[mephiztophelez]

and why would a kicksin want it when u can kick for more damage?
ever kicked something while iron maiden'd? :prop:

edit: a gimmershred is a particularly fine b-fury weapon.

[Silent Shaddow]

yep, and again and agian :rolleyes: and guess what, i was still alive
oh for me its a choice between bf and traps.. and traps win everytime,
bf is just slower and my kicks contain all the benefits of bf, much faster and effective


show me an enemy that bf would be useful against,
and ill show you a dead enemy...:rolleyes:

[mephiztophelez]

show me an enemy that bf would be useful against,
everything while iron maiden'd.

[Silent Shaddow]

everything while iron maiden'd.

so whilst ur put puting things to dead slowly, u will find that my traps will have mown everything down :rolleyes:
also you only get imed in choas and wsk lvl 3 where most things you will face is undead, and any kind of decent kicker carries a lawbringer/azure with them :grin:

also there is a high density of monsters around oks, meaning that it takes forever to clear the area, imo its much easier to dflight them onsight with a lawbringer (which i always have on switch in those areas) and the problem is gone...

and i would like to say this is not out of ignorance, i have actually ran around with lastwish pb and tried killing with it (and if its no good with a lw then its far to much effort anyways) and then i found it slow and annoying

and plz, no comparisons to bowzons as they are quite clearly very very different :undecided:

[wizAdept]

Being you are a pvm kicksin player silentshaddow, Im surprised you are knocking blade fury.

Amazing 1 point wonder for pvm, I heavily recommend any (non pure-trap) pvm asn to get this skill. Yes it is "slower" at killing than talon, that is not the point. The point is it gives a ranged attack that can proc cb and ctc abilities, this has tactical use, if you do not understand this you are not playing your asn to her fullest imo.

If you really want to, sure IM can be handled by a kick/trapsin not using bf, just trapping and using mb/cloak and sanc aura to kill the undead LI, but.. why would you?
For a very minimal prereq and 1 point skill investment, you get the ability to speed up your killing speed on a specific enemy you need dead asap. BF + sanc aura from azure/lawbringer is also quite the undead killer, if you already use lawbringer, why are you not using BF to kill undead LI while you are IM'd?
It just makes no sense to me, unless you are bad at switching up hotkeys or something so the gameplay usage of BF becomes a problem.

There are also other tactical uses in pvm for BF, one thing I like to do is if my health is running low (since I dont like using potions, but if that doesnt bother you chug as much as you want) is to back off, cloak everything, and proc lifetap with a few BF, giving me a ranged means of healing myself.

And about the AR issue.. itd is godly in pvm. If you are playing an all around pvm kicksin, you should consider trying itd weapons, Jah'd stormlash is an excellent pvm weapon for both dtalon and BF. If you are playing a kicksin without itd, you should aim for decent AR for consistently hitting kicks anyway, which should in turn give you enough AR to use BF when you need. Yes it will hit less often than kick in that case, that's a given, once again that's not the point because once you are IM'd you can not kick.


Once again - it's not a skill to take down mass numbers of enemies, its a one point wonder to pick off individual threats while IM'd, every pvm asn that relies on a melee attack as their primary means of damage should have this skill.

[Silent Shaddow]

Being you are a pvm kick/trapsin player silentshaddow, Im surprised you are knocking blade fury.

Amazing 1 point wonder for pvm, I heavily recommend any (non pure-trap)-ive already mentioned im a k/t pvm asn to get this skill. Yes it is "slower" at killing than talon, that is not the point. oh, then why use it? The point is it gives a ranged attack that can proc cb and ctc abilities, this has tactical use, if you do not understand this you are not playing your asn to her fullest imo. - how does 1 skill that has no use to me meaing im missing out?

If you really want to, sure IM can be handled by a kick/trapsin not using bf, just trapping and using mb/cloak and sanc aura to kill the undead LI, but.. why would you?
For a very minimal prereq and 1 point skill investment, you get the ability to speed up your killing speed on a specific enemy you need dead asap. BF + sanc aura from azure/lawbringer is also quite the undead killer then have you tried kicking em?, if you already use lawbringer, why are you not using BF to kill undead LI while you are IM'd? bc thier already dead from my traps
It just makes no sense to me, unless you are bad at switching up hotkeys or something so the gameplay usage of BF becomes a problem. nope, i am very confident that my hotkeys are as good as thier ever going to be, unless u think using F1-12 is a good thing ^^

There are also other tactical uses in pvm for BF, one thing I like to do is if my health is running low (since I dont like using potions, but if that doesnt bother you chug as much as you want it does bother me, but then again it i dont need to very much so) is to back off, cloak everything, and proc lifetap with a few BF, giving me a ranged means of healing myself. me personally i prefer not getting hurt in the 1st place, perphaps you need to look at ur hotkeys if this is a problem to you... im pretty sure that mbing and cos isnt hard to do and then if i do get hurt, LW+Dracks+very fast kicks means i gain my health back to full before then mbed, cosed enemies notice

And about the AR issue.. itd is godly in pvm. If you are playing an all around pvm kicksin, you should consider trying itd weapons like my LW?, Jah'd stormlash is an excellent pvm weapon for both dtalon and BF. If you are playing a kicksin without itd, you should aim for decent AR for consistently hitting kicks anyway erm, kicks give very decent ar without needing to boost it, which should in turn give you enough AR to use BF when you need. Yes it will hit less often than kick in that case, that's a given, once again that's not the point because once you are IM'd you can not kick. i can tank many of my own kicks plently enough to move away and lay traps


Once again - it's not a skill to take down mass numbers of enemies, its a one point wonder to pick off individual threats while IM'd, every pvm asn that relies on a melee attack as their primary means of damage should have this skill. except me and when i rebuild i definately wont be wasting skills

so uve got urself:
imed
low on health
uve backed off
and slowly picked off ur enemies 1 by 1

question: hows ur imed merc feeling?

mines fine, the infinity he carries means that the traps have roasted everything insight and i can just tele away anyways :rolleyes:


the biggest arguement for this skill is iron madien,
again let me remind you that this is only a problem in 2 places, in hell,
everywhere else is see nothing that endears the use of bf, and even if u are in choas, and you are imed, then the only LI is those stormcaster monsters, that do bugger all dmg, and can be easily ignored and rarely hang around together, making most of the advantages moot point

i know the for arguements, and i know the against arguements
having taken both into account and my build, and my play style
and everything else which i already know but uve pointed out anyways

ive come to the conclusion that its rubbish, the time taken to get into stance is annoying, it has no stopping power, it has low dmg and the need to stay instance means that the quick casting and skill switching becomes at best annoying, at worst impossible

[wizAdept]

except me and when i rebuild i definately wont be wasting skills2 points prereq and 1 point BF a waste? Im going to heavily disagree with you cause I think the advantages of having this skill as an option in combat on a CB% oriented asn outweigh having 3 points to spare.

You can of course pvm without BF if you want, same as you could in theory solo hell without traps, or on a lot less of a setup than you use now, so it's not like it's a life or death skill since any kicksin with mb and enough patience can solo pvm, but at the same time I feel a CB% pvm build is lacking without the option to pull out BF when you want.

The prereq and the 1 point wonder are worth having in my opinion, and Im going to stand by that. If you want to play without it, more power to ya, but I wouldn't recommend that to players looking to build pvm kicksins.

[Syphilis]

Why not using 2H weap for more dmg ?
Is it cut half ?

and does a might merc add to your BF dmg ?


may someone help me with this ?

OK, a kicksin is a better pvm build than a BFsin, but taht doesn't mean everybody has to throw away that skill.

[Silent Shaddow]

wizAdept, for me and my build, there are no advantages
i also had a fairly bad initial distribution of stats and far to much in dtalon so i can gain several points more than just 3, which would actually go to some use. my assa is my primary pvm char and does all my runs and stuff, and so i have alot alot alot of time with her... and i can safely say (with 1 exception, and that achieved nothing really anyways) that i nvr use it.
ever.

for me its like ice bolt over frozen orb, just no! :shocked:

[Sir Dante]

I find it to be one of the most Godly skills in the game. 1 point in Blade Fury and the three prereqs plus 1 point in Mind Blast, Cloak Of Shadows, and Physic Hammer and your set.

Etheral Baranar's Star with an Eth in it. Guillaume's Face, Durress, Gore Riders, and Dual Angelic Rings plus the Amulet. 7 easy attainable items even in Hardcore Single Player with the etheral Baranar's being the rarest and 7 skills and you have one easy Guardian. Use up all your skill points and just put them in the Shadows and she becomes even easier. 20 Venom, Fade, Shadow Master and Cloak Of Shadows. Great crowd control, a summon tank, 5 damage sources. With Dual Angelics, Maxed Cloak of Shadows and the Eth in my weapon my Furysin had damn near 95% to hit versus everything. I had a lower resist wand with level 3 charges which drastically enhanced the 4 damage sources. Monsters were dropping like flys without even using Death Sentry.

[Frankeinstein]

I find it to be one of the most Godly skills in the game. 1 point in Blade Fury and the three prereqs plus 1 point in Mind Blast, Cloak Of Shadows, and Physic Hammer and your set.

Etheral Baranar's Star with an Eth in it. Guillaume's Face, Durress, Gore Riders, and Dual Angelic Rings plus the Amulet. 7 easy attainable items even in Hardcore Single Player with the etheral Baranar's being the rarest and 7 skills and you have one easy Guardian. Use up all your skill points and just put them in the Shadows and she becomes even easier. 20 Venom, Fade, Shadow Master and Cloak Of Shadows. Great crowd control, a summon tank, 5 damage sources. With Dual Angelics, Maxed Cloak of Shadows and the Eth in my weapon my Furysin had damn near 95% to hit versus everything. I had a lower resist wand with level 3 charges which drastically enhanced the 4 damage sources. Monsters were dropping like flys without even using Death Sentry.


Ditto!

I do a switch between Stormlash & Gimmershred. Sometimes one does better than the other. I run into a pack of lit immunes, then grab the Gimmer. Or a pack on Stone skin/PI. Again Gimmer does it again.

The eth/eth Barnar's is interesting. I'll have to give that a try. I have a eth demon arch which works well also. Assy looks kinda funny posing with a spear...

I guess I could switch out to 1 angie ring & amy to see how that goes. need my raven for cnbf. demon limb helps quite a bit. Worth the cost of repairs (~10k/charge)

[SSoG]

may someone help me with this ?
The damage penalty when using BF with 1-handers is 75% (3/4ths). The damage penalty when using BF with 2-handers is 37.5% (3/8ths).

In other words, if you had a 1-handed weapon that did 200 average damage, with BF it would deal 150 average damage. If you had a 2-hander that did twice as much (400 average damage), then with BF it would deal... 150 average damage. So two-handers deal the same damage as 1-handers, but they don't allow you to equip a shield. That doesn't mean that 2-handers are worthless, but don't use 2-handers if your goal is to max out damage. Two of my favorite 2-handers to use with BF are Woestave and The Minotaur, both of which offer a ton of tasty BF mods (hit blinds target, hit freezes target, open wounds, slows target, etc). Kelpie Snare is another good one.

so uve got urself:
imed
low on health
uve backed off
and slowly picked off ur enemies 1 by 1

question: hows ur imed merc feeling?

mines fine, the infinity he carries means that the traps have roasted everything insight and i can just tele away anyways :rolleyes:


the biggest arguement for this skill is iron madien,
again let me remind you that this is only a problem in 2 places, in hell,
everywhere else is see nothing that endears the use of bf, and even if u are in choas, and you are imed, then the only LI is those stormcaster monsters, that do bugger all dmg, and can be easily ignored and rarely hang around together, making most of the advantages moot point
Actually, in my opinion, the biggest arguement for BF *isn't* Iron Maiden. It's deadly melee monsters (Dolls, ESEF Fanat-enchanted frenzytaurs, Minions of Destruction, Conviction Enchanted Venom Lords, etc). Put on Cleglaw's Gloves and use Blade Fury, and monsters have to "swim upstream" to reach you- i.e. they have to run faster than you knock them back (and remember, Cleglaw's gives them a speed penalty, too). Throw on some more Slows Target gear (such as Blackhorn's Face or a Kelpie Snare), and it's even more fun. For instance, with Cleg's and Kelpie Snare, I can tag an entire pack of monsters with the maximum possible value of Slows Target before engaging them. See how scary ESEF Frenzytaurs are once they've been hit with 90% slows target, first (Kelpie + Clegs = 100% slows target, but that's capped at 90%).

Another fun use of Blade Fury is with a Silence runeword weapon. Silence has +33 Hit Blinds Target, which means it has a 100% chance to blind anything it hits (unless the HCMTF triggers, in which case the monster will be hit with terror, instead). Sweep a BF across a pack of monsters, leave them all blind, and then deal with them in safety. Not a bad 1-point wonder, all things considered.

[BIGeyedBUG]

Why not using 2H weap for more dmg ?
Is it cut half ?

and does a might merc add to your BF dmg ?Second part first...usually you can consider your BF damage per star to be the same as your total Normal Attack damage multiplied by the BF penalty with the skill bonus damage added to the result. (And then a successful DS/CS doubles that.) So Might does increase BF damage, as do stat bonuses, on and off-weapon ED, min/max, elemental, etcetera. The exception to this Normal Attack rule is Damage +x (Grief, etc.), which doesn't apply to BF.



With 1h weapons, the BF damage penalty is 3/4. With 2h, it's 3/8. So yes, the percentage of your normal damage is halved if you ignore the skill bonus.