ethics?

[Flip10thMtn]

So

Was bored the other night and traded off some junk jewels and P-gems for SOJ's.

I was quite sure they were duped (duh!) :idea:

So, with this in mind would it be "ethical" to trade these for something I need? Should I let the person I'm trading with know (like they already should know) that these are probably dupes? Is it totaly un-ethical to trade any of these?

I was thinking of the SOJ counter... if they are going to be sold to hopefully get a Spawn anyway.......

As it turns out, they poofed... I guess I did a good deed and didn't infect the realm with duped SOJ's :innocent: (I needed the room on my mules anyway :wink3: ) But was wondering what everyone here thinks?

Of course I don't condone trading dupes, just wonder if this is some kind of OK loop-hole?

[ispankpigeons]

people are actually trading sojs for gems and crap jewels now?

jesus

so pathetic

[ffejrxx]

what realm are you on, and how many jewls and p-gems did it cost?

and its a bad idea to bring an item known to be a dup into public games

[LorveN]

Values depend a lot on realms. On Europe you still need quite a bunch of crap jewels to get a soj. On the other hand I recently noted people value Mal as 2*Ist, so...:lipsrsealed:

[Flip10thMtn]

I'm on US West

I believe it was 40 for each SOJ - junk jewels (blue) I had to add a few gems on the last trade to make 40 but I've got plenty of mules.

I did not join any public games with the character that had the SOJ's, I was playing solo passworded games mostly. The only game I was in with him was the trade games.

To tell you the truth, the last market crash a few years back I did the same thing... traded a bunch of Gems and a few jewels for SOJ's. None of them poofed. I was kinda testing the waters with this last trade and now know I need to trade for other items if I want a "tangible asset". :wink3:

[kpshyazn]

this may be a bit off topic... but how do you check to see if an item is duped?
that is one huge worry i have when trading... that is why i try to find my own items, but that is, obviously too big of a task for myself.

i remember few years ago (when i was playing back then) you could ask the trader to move the item around or something...

any tips?
thanks

[SirDooFuss]

Trade at your own risk. Let the buyer beware.

Unless you proclaim that the SOJs were self found, I think you're on fine ethical ground.

A couple of weeks ago on USWEST Non Ladder I saw a game called SOJ 4 850K. Sure enough, the guy was selling SOJ's for 850K gold. Yes, I admit I bought a few and gave him a nice gold bonus. Heck, it's GOLD!!!! But I won't be selling them as "self found" either.

Kpshyazn:
There is no way to check if an item is a dupe. Some items such as high runes, SOJs, and perfect high end items are probably dupes. Items from v1.08 and rares with ridiculous fixed stats are dupes. But the only legit dupe detector is part of ATMA and that only works on non realm Single Player.

[ffejrxx]

when bnet runs ruststorm it takes the realm down for about a day while it gets rid of all dups but one of each

[jakotaco]

when bnet runs ruststorm it takes the realm down for about a day while it gets rid of all dups but one of each

The one "spared" you mentioned, is that necessarily the original or can it be any of the dupes aswell?

[Mursilis]

I doubt Blizzard can tell anymore which ones are the dupes and which are legit. Therefore any of them could be the "one", whether dupe or original.

[Spatacula]

Best way to determine if a trade to legit or bogus is to think like the person you are trading with. Like in this instance, why would a person want a bunch of junk items for a SoJ????...... sorry... the answer still isn't coming to me. Hours of playing to get a single SoJ in order to trade for some gems and jewels just doesn't make sense unless the other person is an idiot. Trading is supposed to be benefitial to both parties.

[SSoG]

this may be a bit off topic... but how do you check to see if an item is duped?
that is one huge worry i have when trading... that is why i try to find my own items, but that is, obviously too big of a task for myself.

i remember few years ago (when i was playing back then) you could ask the trader to move the item around or something...

any tips?
thanks
Simple and logical test to see if something is a dupe:

Download ATMA. Open the drop calculator. See the odds of the item you're trading for dropping, and compare it to the odds of the item you are trading dropping. If the two odds are way out of line with each other, the item you are trading for is a dupe.

For instance, compare CoA to HRs. From what I hear, CoA can fetch as many as 25 HRs. According to ATMA, the best chance to drop a Lo is 1-in-163,283 (by Hell Andy). The best chance to drop a CoA is 1-in-45,526 (not counting quest drops), by Hell Baal. In other words, the Lo should be about 4 times as rare as the CoA, and yet the economy is stating that the CoA is 25 times as rare as the Lo. Simple logic dictates that those Los *MUST* be dupes, and while we cannot tell whether the CoA is a dupe or not (because we don't know the actual rarity of Los, thanks to the duping), odds are more likely that the CoA is legit than the Los are legit.

In the end, any rune above Gul that you can trade for is a dupe. It's a plain and simple rule, and it's accurate 99.999% of the time. Any "perfect" piece of desireable and rare gear is also a dupe (i.e. a perfect Spirit isn't a dupe, since Spirits are cheap, but you can bet your butt that a perfect Ruby Jewel of Fervor is a dupe). Very low-stat uniques of any variety are more than likely legit (who would dupe a poor unique when they could dupe a higher-quality version and sell it for more?), and any non-HR runes are likely legit (who would dupe a Sol when for the same amount of effort they could dupe a Lo?). Also, you can be pretty certain that any Exceptional Unique is legit, unless it's simply too perfect (i.e. a perfect ethereal hone sundan).

When in doubt, just give it the logic test. If you can trade something you got in maybe a dozen hours of gameplay (such as PGems) for something that would have taken YEARS to acquire (such as a HR), then you're trading for a dupe.

[Frosty_The_Snowman]

Simple and logical test to see if something is a dupe:

Download ATMA. Open the drop calculator. See the odds of the item you're trading for dropping, and compare it to the odds of the item you are trading dropping. If the two odds are way out of line with each other, the item you are trading for is a dupe....or the seller is a newbie and doesn't know the true value of his item :grin: !

[templeofnogwa]

Best way to determine if a trade to legit or bogus is to think like the person you are trading with. Like in this instance, why would a person want a bunch of junk items for a SoJ????...... sorry... the answer still isn't coming to me. Hours of playing to get a single SoJ in order to trade for some gems and jewels just doesn't make sense unless the other person is an idiot. Trading is supposed to be benefitial to both parties.

The junk jewels would be for crafting, no?

[SommerSky]

Hi all,

Actually I quit playing more than 2 years ago, because there were so many dupes/hacks/cheats all over the place. In all my cow/meph/pindle runs...ah, the good ole memory...I only found 2 really good items: my own Tal Rasha's armor, and a small charm with 5% resist all + some poison damage. I am talking about months and months of meaningless runs, with so little gain. This is how sad it was to play legitimately. Honestly speaking, I'd not trade any of my high end items away. So, basically, I was usually quite suspicious of someone trading many high end items, mostly likely they were dupes.

I was one of the trade mods for a few years, it was scary to see how many dupes were there. Every day we caught people trading dupes, we banned them from trades, but they just kept coming back. I have to say, it's not fair, at all!! Blizzard really should have done something against all these dupes/hacks/cheats, but they didn't. When I proudly put on all my best gear I found myself, all I got was laughed at, by someone who had a whole character wearing dupes...I decided to stop wasiting my time on runs,and after I stopped playing, I simply let all my
characters/accounts/mules expire...

Sad, no?

SS

[Evrae Altana]

Gasp! Sommersky! :wave:


Yeh, the economy is screwed. A high rune used to be worth something, now it's just another random item you could care less about when you toss it on the ground. It's sad to see the game this way....

[Frosty_The_Snowman]

Now a Europe HR goes for Ist+Pul, that's pretty weird :shocked: !

I've never seen that before in the previous Ladder seasons :hanky:...

[Evrae Altana]

Now a Europe HR goes for Ist+Pul, that's pretty weird !Lucky Europeans....

West: HR=30-40 PGems. I've seen people pay HR for as little as 20 PGems....

[SSoG]

Lucky Europeans....

West: HR=30-40 PGems. I've seen people pay HR for as little as 20 PGems....
Lucky Europeans? It's easier to find 40 PGems legit than it is to find an Ist and a Pul. The only reason Ist + Pul would be cheaper is if they, themselves, were duped.

[Frosty_The_Snowman]

Lucky Europeans? It's easier to find 40 PGems legit than it is to find an Ist and a Pul. The only reason Ist + Pul would be cheaper is if they, themselves, were duped....

That's precisely why we are lucky... The European economy is not (yet) as screwed as US' one...

[Flip10thMtn]

Back on topic-

Is it ethical to trade the SOJ's when I expect they are dupes (like everyone else should)? I wouldn't try and trade them as legit, even the player I got them from admited "they are for trading". I have nothing against them for the trade, I knew what I was getting into.

I expected the SOJ's I traded for were not legit, I'm not that gulible. I'm not complaining they poofed - was kinda expecting it. I mean come on, this is only a game (gasp! :rolleyes: ) and I can get junk jewels quite easily - I already have a mule full. As I said before, a few years back during the last market crash I got 10 - 12 SOJ's for crap items and have yet to loose any of them? IF I happen to join a game and they poof, oh well - it's just a game. :smiley:

[SSoG]

...

That's precisely why we are lucky... The European economy is not (yet) as screwed as US' one...
OHHHHHHHH!!!

I'm a little slow, but I get there eventually. :azn:

Back on topic-

Is it ethical to trade the SOJ's when I expect they are dupes (like everyone else should)? I wouldn't try and trade them as legit, even the player I got them from admited "they are for trading". I have nothing against them for the trade, I knew what I was getting into.

I expected the SOJ's I traded for were not legit, I'm not that gulible. I'm not complaining they poofed - was kinda expecting it. I mean come on, this is only a game (gasp! :rolleyes: ) and I can get junk jewels quite easily - I already have a mule full. As I said before, a few years back during the last market crash I got 10 - 12 SOJ's for crap items and have yet to loose any of them? IF I happen to join a game and they poof, oh well - it's just a game. :smiley:
Whether it is ethical or not is for you to reconcile within your own personal code of ethics. If you see something wrong with trading those SoJs, it is on you not to trade them. If you DON'T see something wrong with trading those SoJs... well, let's just say that I doubt you would have made this thread if you didn't see anything wrong with trading those SoJs.

Not that a vote on a forum should matter, but mine is that you probably shouldn't trade them.

[TheBhoy]

The junk jewels would be for crafting, no?

We wish>>>>>

[batuchka]

Well just to share from my current and past experiences on what normally are considered dupes on West:

1) 3 max/20ar/20 life small charms
2) +1 combat (pally)/45 lifers GCs
3) Ravenspiral rare rings <--- these still around?
4) Imp shank boots (ditto?)
5) .08 gaze
6) .08 arreats

Items 5 and 6 may have a chance to be legit but its a really small chance :( Of course there are lots more stuff but the guys are right- if something has too 'perfect' stats it's more likely that it is a duped item.

[krischan]

Regarding the original question: It seems you would feel bad if you sell those SoJs. We can't give you absolution for it, as this has to be your decision, not ours. You don't need advice based on our personal moral standards. I can just give you advice based on yours.

Therefore the answer for you should be: No, it's not morally acceptable.

Why ? Because you asked.