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danbus
26-10-2006, 03:49
Let me start by saying I am a die-hard pvp bowzon fan and I enjoy owning and being owned. That is all.

This guide is dedicated for a zon that can clear cows solo w/8 players and pvp with any class. Alot of people say "bowzons have been nerfed". As true as it may be, that is a legit excuse for saying "since GA doesn't pierce anymore, bowzons are useless in pvp". I personally have found that bowzons are still effective in dueling. Now it just takes more skill to effectively use such a class.

First off, lets cover the items. This is such budget build that requires no Swiss SoJ account.

Required items for pvp:
1. Twitch
2. Death gloves and sash
3. 30 FRW boots
4. Howltusk

That's it for the required items. These items should be easy to obtain with some trading or MFing. 1) Twitch is the zon armour of choice for 20IAS, dual +10 str/dex, 20 FHR. 2) Death gloves/sash are also optimum choice due to mods needed and easy availability. They provide 30 IAS, 8 LL, 15 res all, and cannot be frozen (a must vs sorc). 3) 30 FRW is a must to retreat/relocate as quickly as possible. 4) Knockback comes with a handy "stun" animation which works 50% of the time.

Recommend items for pvp:
1. 100+ dmg 20ias* goth bow
2. + max dmg, light/cold res, +dex rings
3. +1 or +2 zon, + max dmg, light/cold res, +dex ammy
4. boots with light/cold res

* - required mod

My reasoning for using a 20 IAS goth is because since GA was fixxed, min dmg just isn't cutting it anymore and you need 20 IAS to get the next break point. My ideal zon should maximize dmg. I would rather have 1000 dmg and 1 life than 1000 life and 1 dmg. Bowzons in pvp aren't mean to tank anything. Basically, the only thing that WON'T kill you in 1 hit in pvp is another zon. Rings will give res needed to battle sorcs/pallys while giving damage and the same goes for ammy, but allow "free" skill points. Res should be geared toward lighting JIC a TS sorc comes by. TS doesn't miss, can't be dodged, avoided, or evaded. Even though cold mastery eats up cold res, JIC you happen to get hit by a shard, it won't hurt as much. Blizz/orb can be dodged, avoided, and evaded.

FYI: 1 dex = 1% more dmg

Recommend items for cows:
Sigon gloves/belt/shield
Tarn
SoJs (if you can) OR +life, +mana, +1 to mana per kill rings
eyeless
+1/2 zon, +life, +mana, +1 to mana per kill ammy

Having extensive cow lvl experience, mana and skill points RUN this place for a furyzon. Sigon will allow 30 IAS, a belt for any pots needed, excellent block, and +1 to all skill points, however eyeless will allow less dependency on mana pots. Any + skill items will allow greater killing potential against cows since every point increased dmg and amount of light bolts. Life items are a bonus in case cows surround you, which should never happen with proper herding. Cowing should be a simple process and each game shouldn't take more than 5 mins with proper herding and people. Should you have a conv pally with you, cows shoudln't take no more than 3 mins.

Skill placement:
20 GA
20 Lighting Fury
5+ slow missle
1-3 multishot (optional)
1 decoy
6 Dodge
7 Avoid
6 Evade
51% Critical Hit
50%+ Pierce
3-5+ Penetrate
1 Valk

Since you are a hybrid you will mostly be doing cows to lvl. Lighting Fury, if you have never seen it, is like watching fireworks the first time in your life, just beautiful. It will be your means of killing cows, being everyones' favorite person to have in a cow lvl, or just something people haven't seen in awhile. Max GA will allow less mana cost and more damage. Can't beat that with a bat. Slow missle is for Fireball sorcs/necros/zons/cow king or any LE monster. Decoy can be used strategically for ALL players. Valk for tanking lose arrows. Pierce and critical hit should be 50%, after that you get diminishing returns. D/A/E are 6/7/6, any after are diminishing returns as well. Penetrate should be at your discretion, in the event you cant hit cows, add more. Multishot can be used to stun tele sorcs or catching zons.

Stat placement:
85 str
225+ dex
enough vit so a hell cow cant kill you in 1 hit
no points in energy

Goth bows require 95 str, twitch allows 10 points free. More dex equals more dmg. Dying by a hell cow in 1 hit is embarrassing :embarassed: . You shouldn't be getting hit if herding properly, but it's JIC. Items should provide adequate mana usage/comsumption.

COWS and HERDING:
Cow lvl is where you shine and you are like a celebirty. You can choose to use valk as meat shield, but she can mess up your hearding sometimes. I don't like having people around when I cow since they don't know how to herd for me. Only person/people who should be around are conv pallys/lower resis necros and 1 herder. Best combo is a conv pally who knows how to herd for you.

The herding shape that works for me is the P shape. Start by running through a group of cows, make the loop around, be run back to where you started. If done successfully, the cows should form a "V" shape. Now fire toward the center cow and watch the cows fall in domino fashion. Repeat. If you have some MF, you will find STACKS of items, some most people will grab. On your belt you should have 1st row rejuvs, 2nd red pots, 3rd & 4th mana pots. If you see a item, GO for it. If you have enough life you can take a hit or 2 and still get the item. Since you have DAE you can run through a sizable herd and grab that brown ring safely. Rejuvs are best used when in stun effect and lag. Let it be known that you will NEVER kill the king seeing that he's Limmune. Even if you switch to bow, you don't have enough power to take him down. Another reason why people like fury zons, they never have to worry about you killing the king. Should you happen to by around king, use SM to shorten the range of the bolts.

PVP!:
Against any of these classes, you have the advantage of range. Your GA should be able to hit people off screen with proper aiming and distance.

Versus Barb - It's a game of catch. Since he wolf and you are the fox with a bow, you got the advantage of shots before having to dodge. Now if they have a lance/polearm, you must take EXTRA care. Range of 5 is NO JOKE. These guys will pose as the most dangerous of babas (it's sounds funny saying it outloud) and must be dealt with by use the 5 Ds of bowzons: dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge. *If you've seen it, you know it's funny.* The trick is to get as many shots off as possible before the baba comes within WW range. If you THINK, FEEL, KNOW that you will be killed before getting a shot, DODGE! The direction to go when the baba does his ww depends on the baba. If you against an average speedbaba, he will start the ww a tad before he hits you. At that point you must run in the diagonal direction he came from.

Example - baba comes at you from 9 o'clock, run toward 10-11 o'clock. At that point, depending on how far he WW'd, get 1-3 shots off, repeat.

To tell if you are up against a GOOD baba is when he 1) doesn't WW until you shoot and does it in SHORT ww bursts OR 2) runs PAST you and WWs in short bursts in the dodge direction I stated. When that time comes, DONT SHOOT. Use ANY direction you can think of without repeating your steps. You must provoke him into WW. If he never WWs, don't fire as that will prove fatal. Patience and timing are key in a battle with speedbaba. Only good thing is EVERY shot will hit and will have 50% knockback effect. Use your best judgement whether or not to keep firing due to knockback. Barbs with a shield will take longer to fight, but will have less range and speed.

Should then decide to leap, just run away till you cant see them anymore and let loose. Simple.

Versus Sorc - it's ALL dependant of what kind you are facing.

Orb/TS with FCR will be the most dangerous as they have an auto hit attack, dangerous multi hitting attack, and can manuever to and away from you in a heatbeat. VERY DANGEROUS!! There aren't that many godly orb/ts sorcs that I have seen, but if you do come across one, don't expect to win easy. They will do 1 of 3 things to kill you. 1) tele up to you, let TS hit you, orb, and tele away, 2) tele in a circle or semi circle around you while ts hits, and orb and keep on tele'ing around you or 3) tele past you and let TS kill you. If you do not have at least 50 LR and/or decent life, TS is a 1 hitter quitter for bowzons. Your job is to aim where the sorc is GOING to tele and run away when she orbs. Your dodge direction is dependant on how close the orb is casted to you and the direction it's going.

Example1 - sorc is standing at 9 o'clock on the edge of your screen and orbs toward you just run away, simple.
Example2 - sorc is standing at 9 o'clock within melee range (or just a tad farther) and orbs toward 1 o'clock, you should run toward 8 o'clock, simple.

After dueling orb sorcs for awhile, it's about eye coordination and focus. You should almost NEVER be hit by orb unless vs 2 orb sorcs. Fire ONLY when clear of orb shards and when sorc is tele'ing.

Blizzard sorcs are MUCH easier. Most will not have TS since their synergies will yield more killing power. After blizz has been casted, it takes about 1 second before you get hit. With 30 FRW boots, dodging is easy peazy lemon squeezy. Simple dodge direction is to move from that area and fire, repeat.

Fireball sorcs are TOO easy. Once they come within range of SM it's game over. SM ranged is ALMOST at the edge of the screen.

_______ about that much from the edge

Don't even TRY to fire until they have SM on them. When they tele up to you, just SM. Fire, dodge, repeat.

Haven't tested SM on hydra or blizz sorcs.

Versus pally - all easy except shielded charger and FoH

Hammerdin MUST get close to you, he will likely charge to cover ground and begin hammers. Take a few steps back fire a shot or 2 and repeat. Not sure if SM effects BH.

FoH must get closer enough to have conv on u and begin casting. He too might charge and switch to FoH. With him blocking or getting knocked back, he will not be able to cast. SM has no effect on FoH. Once he has lock, keep firing in hopes to kill him since you won't be able to run away.

Chargers are the WORST opponent to face. If you get hit you will either die, get caught in knockback and die, or get away. If they get within hitting range, RUN! Run in zip zag fashion and try to find black spots to avoid getting hit. Once you have cleared enough distance, begin firing.

A PURE PallyVzon will always win. They have max HF and charge. You can only hope they dont have sheild and knockback keeps them away. Once HF hits...you might as well start hitting esc to come back.

Versus Necro - I have never faced a poison necro but SM does reduce their range of nova. So no challenge there. If up against Bspear or bspirit they will either decrep you or prison you. Fire until they get close enough, dodge spirits/spears when you must, and when they get close enough use SM. If you get decreped, you MUST hit them with SM, otherwise you cant run from spirits. If you get prisoned, SM and use multi shot to hit necro and walls until you can break free.

Versus zon - against a java/spear zon use SM and fire away and run

Vs bowzon is different. A good bowzon duel will last 1000+ arrows. Basic plan is to shoot at the edge of the screen in the direction of the zon. Fire a few shots and relocate. Use valk as meat shield. If you cannot see your opponent on map use decoy and relocate to a position in which the opponent see the decoy and not you on the map. Kinda like a trick, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Multishot range is about 2-2.5 screen range and GA is about 1.3 screen range. Should you see a zon trying to get a better position, try spamming a few multishots to score a few kills. Since goth bows do nice max damage, this should wittle away some life easy. Should a bowzon venture too close, SM and fire away while dodging.

That about sums it up about my hybrid pvp zon build. Please comment input, ideas, feedback, anything please.

THANKS!!

goomba
26-10-2006, 12:22
you mentioned blizzers as being relatively easy to avoid...

interesting. I know of a couple that chose the 110 fcr breakpoint for duelling purposes, as well as for even faster teleporting, since, as you suggested they usually throw every available point into blizzard synergies instead of filling up teleport.

while obviously, fcr doesn't impact the timer of the blizzard, doesn't it impact the frequency with which they can spam ice blast/spike?

while in theory, you can't be frozen with death's on, a 1300 dmg ice blast is no joke either.

this also brings up a question, that whole "can not be frozen".

I have been experimenting with the LLD, usign deaths, going up against a freezing zealot. I do in fact periodically get frozen... is this due to a lack of CR, or the fact, that it takes a moment for the "can't be frozen" thing to unfreeze when facing that aura?

WarlockCC
26-10-2006, 13:14
Holy freeze affects all monsters and players regardless of cbf. It just slows, it doesn't freeze you.

Just to clarify on what Goomba typed, since his sentance can be read wrong : more skillpoints in teleport does not make you teleport faster, it just makes it cheaper per teleport.

A trained zon probably gets quite good at dodging blasts and spikes, but indeed 1300 cold damage (=217 pvp damage with 0 cold mastery and 0 cold res on the receiver's side) is indeed nothing to cough at(geddit ? geddit ? cough... cold... sigh, never mind)

It seems to me he did lots of work on the build. Now, presuming it's not all just theory and he implemented this, I would vote for it in a sticky.
And once other people(All you amazon enthousiasts out there) get a chance to try this build, reply with your findings here.
I might give this build a go. I have a descent goth lying around which would serve this purpose well.

goomba
26-10-2006, 13:55
Holy freeze affects all monsters and players regardless of cbf. It just slows, it doesn't freeze you.

Just to clarify on what Goomba typed, since his sentance can be read wrong : more skillpoints in teleport does not make you teleport faster, it just makes it cheaper per teleport.

A trained zon probably gets quite good at dodging blasts and spikes, but indeed 1300 cold damage (=217 pvp damage with 0 cold mastery and 0 cold res on the receiver's side) is indeed nothing to cough at(geddit ? geddit ? cough... cold... sigh, never mind)

It seems to me he did lots of work on the build. Now, presuming it's not all just theory and he implemented this, I would vote for it in a sticky.
And once other people(All you amazon enthousiasts out there) get a chance to try this build, reply with your findings here.
I might give this build a go. I have a descent goth lying around which would serve this purpose well.

fair enough statements on the cold slowing vs. freezing. the slowing effect is a major pita regardless. and I guess I was implying that a cheaper teleport is one that is more likely to be used a LOT.

zaxien
26-10-2006, 14:03
#1 you never should hybrid bows and javas. Its like crossing a barb and a sorc, although it IS fun ( i have done it) its not very viable in real pvp or in hell for that matter.

#2 I strongly disagree by the + max items. Switch that to +min items and I would agree whole heartedly.

Blizzers are probably the easiest IF they dont know what they are doing, just b/c blizz is the easiest attack to avoid unless they namelock you. But as stated above 2 ice blasts and you are toast. I still havent decided what to do with my bowzon (lvl31 right now) leave him the lvl she is for lld or take her 75+ and try real duels with her. I would say only use a goth bow if it is 130+ not just 100+ because you can save stats and use a 60-100 razor, double, rune etc and still hit the same ias bps. I guess if I decide to go high lvl with mine I will draw up a pure pvp bowzon guide for everyone since pvm java guides are everywhere and not hard to stray from. I just disagree with this one b/c its not really viable except in solo play. Ahem lvl 28 zon killing a 5x zon in pvp ahem makes it not too viable in my eyes. ;)

fledgeling
26-10-2006, 14:42
I would spend the 20++ points from lighning tree into the avoids/evade combo

for some reason I dont think you have even tested your guide


I think a good fireball sorc can get 110FCR, 80FHR and 4000damage (110fcr gear, 2sojs, blinkbat). Of course you can slowmissile her, but she could just teleport near/on-top of you and fireball you to death. You couldnt stun lock her even with your 70ias/howltusk (perhaps cleglaw gloves+that MF belt with 10ias?)

also I dont see you winning vs any decent barb, not to mention a speeder barb.

vs FOH? they have like a zillion FHR usually

zaxien
26-10-2006, 14:48
I would spend the 20++ points from lighning tree into the avoids/evade combo

for some reason I dont think you have even tested your guide


I think a good fireball sorc can get 110FCR, 80FHR and 4000damage (110fcr gear, 2sojs, blinkbat). Of course you can slowmissile her, but she could just teleport near/on-top of you and fireball you to death. You couldnt stun lock her even with your 70ias/howltusk (perhaps cleglaw gloves+that MF belt with 10ias?)

also I dont see you winning vs any decent barb, not to mention a speeder barb.

vs FOH? they have like a zillion FHR usually


most barbs are fairly easy if you have a good amount of dodge/evade
really ANY char with alot of fhr is fairly simple to put into fhr if you have a fire dam bow with howltusk.
I am just seeing another anti-bowzon! Get away! :wink3:

WarlockCC
26-10-2006, 15:10
I was WW'ing a furyzon of a guy on my /f list and I hit that zon about once per WW. He had his D/E/A at 5 each iirc. No +skills.
And he was doing some serious lightning damage even though I had 75 lres on that barb. So, yeah, DEA makes the difference. And I'm not referring to the Dope Enjoyment Agency.

goomba
26-10-2006, 16:49
I was WW'ing a furyzon of a guy on my /f list and I hit that zon about once per WW. He had his D/E/A at 5 each iirc. No +skills.
And he was doing some serious lightning damage even though I had 75 lres on that barb. So, yeah, DEA makes the difference. And I'm not referring to the Dope Enjoyment Agency.

just for curiousity's sake - how much AR were you carrying, and was there a significant level difference?

WarlockCC
26-10-2006, 17:01
I only have Angelics (amy 2 rings)on that barb and the leveldifference was 3 levels. His zon was level 80 and my barb level 77
We where both wearing a twitch. My barb was 1h, using a 206 exec -30 req 1 cold damage and 30/20 pris dia ancient shield with 61 lres. My barb's boots where rezzy, the gloves/belt deaths and the helm some oogly mask without ar.
My Barb's WW and mastery is full, as is his BO, complimented by a BC.
No idea what his exact AR is, but I would think it enough to kill a shielded, non DEA target with a single WW within that level difference and with that target's defence or lack thereof.

Amaruak
26-10-2006, 17:59
From experiance I can say that the points your spending in the lightning tree to lvl up would be better spent maxing Critical Strike and putting more points into D/A/E especially the one that allows you to dodge missiles, although I forget its name.

I duel with a bowazon quite a lot, she is not an uber pvp class (as has been stated) but she definetely has her advantages and can kill any class, given enough time ;)

Seriously, the drawback is not having enough resists and I can get 75 to all resists except poison in hell. It's hard to stack more than that because IAS is more important.

Use the minimap, I tend to try and put my oppont(s) just on the edge of the map so I know where they are but I can vanish of their radar in a few steps. This tactic works best against those dreaded Bone Necros as they really owns amas now, Bowazons at least.

Akukami
26-10-2006, 18:05
Blizzard sorcs are MUCH easier. Most will not have TS since their synergies will yield more killing power. After blizz has been casted, it takes about 1 second before you get hit. With 30 FRW boots, dodging is easy peazy lemon squeezy. Simple dodge direction is to move from that area and fire, repeat.

Fireball sorcs are TOO easy. Once they come within range of SM it's game over. SM ranged is ALMOST at the edge of the screen.


I take it that you've never met a Blizzer/FBaller who'd be willing to Tele on top of you and put you into FHR or Dodge/Evade/Avoid (w/e it's called) animation with Ice Blast or FBall. Even with Slow Missile, you shouldn't take them so lightly when they're up in your face. :laugh:

- Akukami

goomba
26-10-2006, 18:30
I only have Angelics (amy 2 rings)on that barb and the leveldifference was 3 levels. His zon was level 80 and my barb level 77
We where both wearing a twitch. My barb was 1h, using a 206 exec -30 req 1 cold damage and 30/20 pris dia ancient shield with 61 lres. My barb's boots where rezzy, the gloves/belt deaths and the helm some oogly mask without ar.
My Barb's WW and mastery is full, as is his BO, complimented by a BC.
No idea what his exact AR is, but I would think it enough to kill a shielded, non DEA target with a single WW within that level difference and with that target's defence or lack thereof.

interesting. I would have thought, as you presumabley did, that you'd be able to pwn a non shielded target without much of a problem with one WW as well.

zaxien
26-10-2006, 18:52
if you notice he was talking about a furyzon ie. a shield wearing zon.

goomba
26-10-2006, 19:29
if you notice he was talking about a furyzon ie. a shield wearing zon.

doh! pwned myself multi-tasking. (again)

I saw twitch, but missed the zon's shield/fury aspect.

danbus
26-10-2006, 20:29
Yes, I have tested this build and it works fine for me and my playing style. The only scorc I haven't gone up agaisnt is a orb/ts sorc (where did they go?).

This build is SPECIFICALLY for cows/pvp. If you try to fight your way through any acts in hell you will get owned. It was hard enough trying to get the malus in hell! The end lvl of this build should be around 75-80.


From experiance I can say that the points your spending in the lightning tree to lvl up would be better spent maxing Critical Strike and putting more points into D/A/E especially the one that allows you to dodge missiles, although I forget its name.

You get diminishing returns after 51% or so. Spending 5 points to get that extra 5% is not favorable and could be spent elsewhere that will yield more % per point.

Lightingzons don't need AR to hit their targets. It ALWAYS hits, kinda like when you have IGNORE TARGET DEFENCE mod on a weapon. Only exception I believe is if you have a shield, however that ONLY blocks the actuall HIT, not the lighting it spawns.


#2 I strongly disagree by the + max items. Switch that to +min items and I would agree whole heartedly.

I concur and argue back to the fact GA USED to get 3-5 hits per shot. Since you only get 1 hit (if it's not blocked) per shot it would be best to get the MOST out for each hit. Min dmg is nice and all, however I would rather take the greater average of doing more damage per hit.


I would say only use a goth bow if it is 130+ not just 100+ because you can save stats and use a 60-100 razor, double, rune etc and still hit the same ias bps

A 130+ goth with no IAS is a bit easier to come by than a 120+ goth with 20 IAS. Even a 80 razor with no IAS will be worth a soj or 2. This build is designed for the bowzon fans on a budget and targets the idea of dealing the maximum damage per hit. A PURE pvp bowzon must be builit around items. NL dupe zons can do massive dmg per hit and still have close to 900 life. Pure pvp bowzons are harder to lvl IMO unless you leech xp. With the hybrid build, you are still able to lvl yourself and still be able to be an effective pvp zon.


I take it that you've never met a Blizzer/FBaller who'd be willing to Tele on top of you and put you into FHR or Dodge/Evade/Avoid (w/e it's called) animation with Ice Blast or FBall. Even with Slow Missile, you shouldn't take them so lightly when they're up in your face.

Indeed I have. I was 1 out of 2 with the sorc (lvl 81 blizz/ice blast sorc, I was 55 at the time and didn't have SM yet). I killed her before she tped to town. Right after I killed her she called me a noob and said she ran out of mana (lol). I was then killed due to the fact that I wasn't paying attention and she put on more FCR (I'm noob for that). She then took my gold and left That was AFTER I killed her lvl 89 baba. I had him down to a sliver of life left and he used a refilling shrine and killed me. He then tried to nk me, but failed (barbs aren't good at nk). I then killed him and told him to get another char. That's when the 81 sorc was brought in.
Dodge/Aviod have animation. Evade doesn't (even though you stop for .2 seconds).


for some reason I dont think you have even tested your guide

Please attempt to test the guide yourself and prove me wrong. If you do not have the time/or want to, allow me to "test" my build on you.

Sebbie
29-10-2006, 02:06
Honestly I don't see why you absolutly wanna level doing cows. By doing so you diminish your bowazon. I don't know why people are so in love with the idea of killing cows anyway... Don't get me wrong I join my fair share of cows games but I only join them to level up in other acts. I see my level go up way faster then the people wasting their time cowing. Maybe I'm wrong but Experience from cows seems low and slow.

And all those javazon points could go to critical strike which would give you more damage. That's all you want with your zon after all.

Plus GA seems to kills pvm ok anyway. I will admit that I am only level 41 right now and I am questing act 2 nightmare. The pvm is no problem. Level 1 valk is quite helpfull for sure and I put some point in evasion skills for her. And if the pvm gets too slow I will trade for goblin toe which will help. Plus GA in pvm seems way better then strafe. Reaching level 65 should be ok. After that I will probably not have the patience anyway and I will get useless skill points anyway... perhaps devlopping freezing arrow at leisure...

Also by maxing GA first I could enter some duel game and kill some level 60 wwder which was amuzing. I use twich, sig boots belt, goldwrap, howltusk, some 109 goth bow with fire damage and etlitch. I wanna level her to level 51 where I will use some +8 minimum damage rings. I am also looking into a possible use of cleglaw glove. A faster bow would be better for sure. But yes I must admit I was impressed at how she performed. Haven't faced sorceress yet. Hammerdins and wwder were handled with ease and chargers well you really just wanna blindly shoot away from a distance or... die in one hit!

fledgeling
29-10-2006, 11:01
get friends with someone having an enchantress (easy to say...) and leveling your amazon wont require lightning fury

Dacar92
29-10-2006, 14:27
Plus GA seems to kills pvm ok anyway. *clipped Plus GA in pvm seems way better then strafe. Reaching level 65 should be ok.



GA doesn't pierce anymore, making it useless for PvM. One critter at a time... Strafe (some people like multi) is the killer hog for bowazons in 1.11

danbus
29-10-2006, 21:46
Honestly I don't see why you absolutly wanna level doing cows.

1. This build is viable for cows
2. Furyzons can MF in cows since they are viable in cows.
3. I don't need to find a CS game, when I can just solo cows and be happy.


And all those javazon points could go to critical strike which would give you more damage. That's all you want with your zon after all.

It's not logical to me to spend more points after 50% in critical hit since you get dimishing returns. Furyzons do damage with lighting fury which isn't affected by critical hit.


Plus GA in pvm seems way better then strafe.

Are you serious? Ok, once you get to act 1 hell, tell me how many hits it takes for you to kill 1 zombie.


And if the pvm gets too slow I will trade for goblin toe which will help.

Goblin toe does 1/20th of TOTAL monster life and has a 25% to happen. That means you have a 25% chance to do 5% of current life damage. Everytime you hit the monster with crushing blow, you do diminishing damage.

Quite possibly in the future, we should duel sometime =)
I use a 121 20ias -req goth

zaxien
29-10-2006, 22:55
It's not logical to me to spend more points after 50% in critical hit since you get dimishing returns. Furyzons do damage with lighting fury which isn't affected by critical hit.

lvl 20 crit adds 68% crit, seems viable to me



Quite possibly in the future, we should duel sometime =)
I use a 121 20ias -req goth

msg *dead. in game sometime, i would like to duel you just to see since we are comparable lvls now, lvl 61 zon here

danbus
29-10-2006, 23:18
lvl 20 crit adds 68% crit, seems viable to me

base lvl 9 crit = 51% (i think - i cant check it, i'm at work)
17 % difference
11 points I can put in avoid and evade or even valk to tank hits =)

my zon is at 67

I will be on around 1am EST.

Sebbie
30-10-2006, 00:57
base lvl 9 crit = 51% (i think - i cant check it, i'm at work)
17 % difference
11 points I can put in avoid and evade or even valk to tank hits =)

my zon is at 67

I will be on around 1am EST.

See dude if you are gonna duel some guy that has the exact same gear as you but you wasted points in the lightning fury/penetrate/pierce thing while he put (wisely) all those points in avoid/dodge/critical strike then you are gonna loose. What is there to test? It's all math. Unless you use a hack or something. Do you ? :tongue:

I mean wasting points in javazon to kill cows might be fun but it's not optimal that's all. Then again if it's how you enjoy the game then do it man. That's all that counts. Alot of people seems to enjoy doing that so much. That's not how I get my kicks. Beating on a heard of slow moving (hopeless) cows is boring if you ask me. Matter of taste :smiley:

I won't duel you since I got a 109 bow and you got a 120 (with - req) and you have more dex and a bit more hp then me since you are higher level meaning that I would die. No need to duel I know the outcome. My zon is level 47 now but if I get a better bow (hopfully) then we could do it. Then again I put more points in strength meaning that I have less dex then you. Now we could talk about which rings and amulets you use. They are probably better then mine too. A bad build with way better gear will win you know it's all a matter of numbers. That zon is on west ladder btw.

So my point is simply that for equal gear and level the extra points that will go in evasion skills and critical strike will make a better bowazon. What is there to debate seriously?? Your lightning fury is useless. I think I will say it again useless. Unless you gonna try to use a javelin in the middle of a duel? That would be funny I must admit.

Oh and on strafe I have a level 66 strafer on east and she's awfull to play. And she got a nice 38-99 bow (not a gothic) with stacked monster flee and cb gear. But see the biggest problem were flesh spawners and the like for her. By not being able to focus the damage on the spawner she would be flooded by little critters. I know that GA will handle that way better. And strafer had mana problem too with big leech go figure... Sometime I stay far from danger and just spam GA until all monsters are dead and the strafer can't do that. She locks too which can get messy... I know I often used level 1 GA in late hell with the strafer so there is probably a reason why I said GA was better for pvm. Anyway, time will tell.

And there is no reason why you would not want goblin toes in pvm. I mean running fast with the zon is way less important then trying to deal big damage since that's her weakness... no ? I will also add that I will probably use wormskull or snakecord to fight the monster heal once I reach hell difficulty too. But of course Goldwrap, 30 run walk and howltusk are logical choice for pvp.

danbus
30-10-2006, 21:18
My zon is lvl 67 with base 85 str 260 dex 50 vit and base energy. I do 150-600 dmg and have 300 life.


See dude if you are gonna duel some guy that has the exact same gear as you but you wasted points in the lightning fury/penetrate/pierce thing while he put (wisely) all those points in avoid/dodge/critical strike then you are gonna loose. What is there to test? It's all math. Unless you use a hack or something. Do you ?

1. Zons will only have 3 pieces of gear in common - twitch, death gloves, death sash.
2. You are right, there is nothing to test. However should those claim that this build isn't good for pvp, PLEASE step up to the plate and take responsibility for what you state. I have asked to duel people whom I have seen on bnet, but recieved the phrases "I'm lagging today", or "Maybe later". Should you choose to state a plan will not work or make an accusation that this build hasn't been tested, step up and prove me wrong.
3. bowzon vs bowzon are 70% skill and 30% items/build. That's all the math involved.
4. No hacks, just skill. I can't stand those FC zons. It just let me know how good I am. A person needs a hack to defeat me. Damn I'm good!

zaxien
30-10-2006, 22:28
msg me dead. dead.hxc i wanna duel your zon

danbus
30-10-2006, 22:36
I did yesterday around 10pm EST. You didn't respond. It it cause I'm black?

zaxien
31-10-2006, 00:22
I did yesterday around 10pm EST. You didn't respond. It it cause I'm black?

damn you did you figure me out.

msg me again i didnt see it

danbus
31-10-2006, 00:57
I work from 4pm-12am. When I get off today I'll be on @ 1:30am EST.

fledgeling
31-10-2006, 01:46
amazon vs amazon with identical gear is like 100% luck
sorry to tell you

you throw arrows at someone throwing arrows at you
the arrows do random 150-600 damage

the winner is the one which is more lucky


in BvB at least you can sometimes outmaneouver your opponent, same goes for necro vs necro

but seriously, diablo is mostly a 0-skill game, where items and luck are much more important than skill. sorry to tell you that

my poorly built barbarian with extremaly bad gear can kill "good BvBs" with 1 lucky WW. the damage is completely random. had I built him better, for example by putting more than 6 points in BO, he could become better I think. with better gear the outcome of my duels would be completely random

zaxien
31-10-2006, 02:58
amazon vs amazon with identical gear is like 100% luck
sorry to tell you

you throw arrows at someone throwing arrows at you
the arrows do random 150-600 damage

the winner is the one which is more lucky


in BvB at least you can sometimes outmaneouver your opponent, same goes for necro vs necro

but seriously, diablo is mostly a 0-skill game, where items and luck are much more important than skill. sorry to tell you that

my poorly built barbarian with extremaly bad gear can kill "good BvBs" with 1 lucky WW. the damage is completely random. had I built him better, for example by putting more than 6 points in BO, he could become better I think. with better gear the outcome of my duels would be completely random


So is it just me or does everyone call you a complete idiot? Because there is a "skill" in pvp on any character. Not all of us just try wwing at random crossing our fingers and praying to the gods that we will get that one lucky shot in and then go around bragging "Look at me I owned your uber bvb with my crappy one! LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME! I know all about D2!"

I am sorry but if I didn't say it above I want to make it clear. You sir are an idiot.

Akukami
31-10-2006, 03:10
Not all of us just try wwing at random crossing our fingers and praying to the gods that we will get that one lucky shot in and then go around bragging "Look at me I owned your uber bvb with my crappy one! LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME! I know all about D2!"

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! :laugh:

Poor Fledge, he's always getting picked on. I still find it amusing that he thinks he's smarter than everyone else when it comes to this game. Perhaps we should pay him a visit on Euro and....nah, actually, that would just be a waste of my time.

- Akukami

danbus
31-10-2006, 03:48
I am sorry but if I didn't say it above I want to make it clear. You sir are an idiot.

I 2nd that. :grin:

Furthermore I would like to thank zaxien for typing that response as I would have gotten myself banned for using big four and five letter words. :thumbsup:

Sebbie
31-10-2006, 15:39
My zon is lvl 67 with base 85 str 260 dex 50 vit and base energy. I do 150-600 dmg and have 300 life.
...
A person needs a hack to defeat me. Damn I'm good!

My point was only that you wasted point in lightning fury. That's all. You can level fine without it. I don't even see how lightning fury is gonna help you level to 80 for instance. Maybe I'm wrong here but the damage seems low that's all. Will hell cows really bow down to lightning fury and will that be enough to get you to level 80? I doubt it I might be off.

With that being said I might remake that zon on east and fight you since I got better gear there. You might teach me some nice tricks about how to fight that zon vs zon matchup. After all if you beat me with that crappy setup of yours then you truely have something to teach me and I would be pleased to learn it from you.

zaxien
31-10-2006, 15:41
for cows ya should put pts into muti instead of lightning...or even strafe to keep a pure bowzon build...but thats just what i would have done =)

zaxien
31-10-2006, 20:06
sorry but i hadda post these....
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c50/zigger421/Screenshot078.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c50/zigger421/Screenshot079.jpg


good duelin though!!! was fun

danbus
31-10-2006, 21:15
sorry but i hadda post these....

Yeah, well, it happens :embarassed: . One of those wicked act1 hell zombies was a minion and had "extra fast". He came from off screen and put the 1 hitter quitter on me. Most embarrassing. But you can see from the 1st screen shot, I was soooooooooo close.
In the second screenshot, I was relocating for better position and ran right into a zombie :cry: .


for cows ya should put pts into muti instead of lightning

Try to kill cows with multi and then fury. Tell me which kills faster and more effectively.

I must say though, with my build, I am still an effective pvp bowzon and can still handle cows with ease.

Stay tuned for the next guide on a pure pvp bowzon.

danbus
06-11-2006, 01:28
The bow in question would be either goth or rune ideally with 180%+ED, 20% IAS (10% IAS needed only on rune)...

Major correction for the IAS speed of a goth bow:

Goth bows only need 10 IAS (not 20) to reach max FPS.
Rune bows need 20 IAS to reach max FPS.


My apologizes. :cry: