Poll - Best shield for hammerdin - Spirit vs HOZ

[smeer]

Now many people value spirit higher than HOZ, mainly because of the FCR to reach 125fcr, especially in PvP.
I'd like to add some hard numbers to the discussion by creating this poll

[oneBlast]

Spirit means:

more life (55fhr allows you to use life/res scs, instead of fhr/res)
max block with base, or close to base dexterity
125fcr which helps a lot in PVP:
It also has it's pros if you're a "locker" hammerdin more than a desync type.

Explanation:
by teleporting on top of your opponent and casting hammers, you can block your opponents movements by putting him into hit recovery.
It works great with 125fcr, but with 75fcr it doesn't work that good, if at all.

The damage difference is negligible - dpending on other items you use, you can have 13-13k hammers with spirit, hoto and 5pcs.
With wizz/ Hoz setup, the dmg is about 12-13k range, and you loose a lot of life, by having to sacrifice life/res scs for fhr ones.

I'm currently using the following setup on my pvp hammerdin:

Coa berber (I'm trying to get a jewel for the coa: -req/9dex/res)
eni MP
craft amu 2/18fcr/ mods
fcr rings with str/dex/mana
trang gloves
spirit sacred targe
waterwalks
5pcs with 35life
21 scs with life/res
1 scs with fhr/5@
torch
anni

And I have to tell you, it works just great.
I have:
4.4k life with BO
87fhr (86fhr BP)
12-13k hammers @ 125fcr
max block

Do I need to say more?

[Arutha]

I have never made a pvp hammer pally although recently I have been thinking about it. But my main pvm/mf character is my hammer pally. In previous seasons I would use hoz and have 75% fcr, and after playing with 125% I will never go back. And although you can still get 125%fcr with hoz and do a little more dmg useing spirit lets me wear more mf ie shako instead of pally circlet, and I feel that 14k dmg is more than enough for me so I have no desire to throw on a hoz and take a loss in either my fcr or my mf.

[Lyndis]

Excuse my ignorance, but how is max block a plus for Spirit when compared to HoZ when HoZ has a better block rate? If anything, HoZ should get the advantage when it comes to amount of dex required to reach max block.

[oneBlast]

I've never said otherwise Lyndis.
HoZ requires about 125dex for max block with 35% block increase from HolyShield.
Spirit ST requires about 163 dex for max block with the same increase from HolyShield (both assuming lvl 95)
Only thing said by me, was that you actually CAN have max block with Spirit ST and base, or almost base dex - with the help of proper equipment.

[Lyndis]

What setup would you use to hit 125 FCR, max resists in hell, max block loads of MF, and also have Enigma for teleport? What +skills would you be able to have? Assume there is no Torch involved

[Kiba]

Cracked eth buckler is best.

dont wanna miss out on its godly defense.

[munchkins]

if you are reasonably rich, you can hit 125 fcr with hoz...

20 fcr circlet
10 fcr ring/soj
15+fcr ammy
20fcr gloves
enigma
arach (20 fcr)
treks
hoto (40 fcr)

this is 125 fcr and the 4 pcomb skills on hoz give you a lot more damage then spirit

if you cant afford all the godly gear, i still like hoz and 80 fcr... its still very effective, and hoz simply beats spirit in almost everything IMO.. the extra fhr just isnt worth it for me

[oneBlast]

Your setup has no DR whatsoever, and it's resulting in less life - thus a barb or a smiter will kill you in 2-3hits (if you're lucky, bvc can kill you in proper 1 ww)

FHR isn't worth it only for a PVM hammer, while I'm advertising Spirit as a PVP shield.

I'd use circlet over a shako/CoA only if it had:

2skills
20fcr
40+life
60+mana
2os
10+all res

Otherwise, the loss of dr/skills/ life/mana boost from shako, or fhr/dr/ res/ sockets from CoA just isn't worth it.

[Bladewind]

125 FCR is great even for PvM, you tele alot faster and the hammers come out alot more quicker.

Also it allows a DR setup easier and the 55% FHR is a tremendous boost.

[smeer]

if you are reasonably rich, you can hit 125 fcr with hoz...

20 fcr circlet
10 fcr ring/soj
15+fcr ammy
20fcr gloves
enigma
arach (20 fcr)
treks
hoto (40 fcr)

this is 125 fcr and the 4 pcomb skills on hoz give you a lot more damage then spirit

if you cant afford all the godly gear, i still like hoz and 80 fcr... its still very effective, and hoz simply beats spirit in almost everything IMO.. the extra fhr just isnt worth it for me

Not sure about that, because if you use spirit you could use 2sojs vs 10 fcr ring/soj. Now +1 to all skills will be ~as good as +2PCskills (HOZ will give you +2PCskills not +4....)

[munchkins]

Not sure about that, because if you use spirit you could use 2sojs vs 10 fcr ring/soj. Now +1 to all skills will be ~as good as +2PCskills (HOZ will give you +2PCskills not +4....)

hoz has 2 all pally skills and 2 pcomb skills.. thats 4 pcomb skills
if u use spirit and 2 soj you are losing 1 pcomb skill and gaining 1 in you auras, which will only add a tiny bit of damage via concentration. hoz beats spirit for damage, period. if you can afford all the fcr gear, HOZ>spirit any day of the week. and if you can afford all that you can afford 12 fhr pcombs too, so dont say that 55fhr on spirit is too bug of a boost to lose....

[TheGoat]

does it really matter?? Klan MAH will kill ne hdins......

[tartanasia]

I voted classic because im awesome. If I can play this kta on the sub bench let me know. Work will often get in the way for this as I do not have fixed shifts.

John btw.

[KillaMike]

Voting pole strikes again!!!

[MFDeath]

Because we're talking Hammers here, and therefore FCR, IMO Spirit takes it by far and large. Sure, you can hit 125FCR with HoZ, but it's harder and more expensive... Plus, Spirit has the FHR too, since we're on the subject of PVP.

[hubb]

^Had a nice chuckle.

I've never seen someone continue a 4 year old conversation so casually.

[alphaz]

^ it happens all the time :D

[zrk]

Zaka does have advantages: 400 more defense(upped zaka vs 15 ed spirit st), 28 more vitality points on account of higher blocking(at lvl 95), possibility to ber it for even more tanking capability(or whatver other socket).

In damage regards, i tried both 2soj+spirit 125 fcr and hoz+1soj 130 fcr and both did 16k with a top end setup

[taxcut]

Somebody necro'd this thread, let it die, and re necro'd it....
Nice...

[KillaMike]

ahem, this is pretty much what all having a debate off, Spirit vs Zaka, i dislike zaka and always go for Spirit because: It's cheaper, more resistance and MUCH easier to get hold off then Zaka.