View Full Version : LLD questions...
I'm getting a little, for lack of words, bored with D2. I just started again but its just the same old thing over and over. I heard about LLDers when I first came back but just now thought about building one.
1)What lvl is it? 29 or 30? (I'm USEast SC-L)
2)How many skills do you have, see above for base, with Normal/Nightmare/Hell skill quests completed as well.
3)Build suggestions...
Thanks,
-Mt. Dew
There are different categories of LLD- VLLD= lvl 9, MLLD= lvl 18, and HLLD= lvl 30. If you get bug rushed, you'll have 41 skills at level 30. As for builds, there are a myriad do a google search there is a site devoted to LLD
I'm looking at building something of my own I guess. I looked at diffrent attacks and what not, I think I'll end up doing a HLLD Assassin. After work tomarrow, away I go lol.
1) There is a site out there (google it) that has standards and rules for LLD. Their levels vary depending on the class (usually fitting into 9/18/30 brackets, lower as needed) and some things are not allowed. Whether you want to participate in that is your choice though: their tournaments happen once in a blue moon and tend to be too elite to be worth joining (since they've been LLDing longer than you've played D2) and in pub games nobody really cares about those rules. So just go with whatever level you'd like - I tend to go for the lowest level I can use my equip yet, or the coolest looking level.
2) At base you've got (level-1) skills, so 29 at level 30 or 17 at level 18, since you get no skill at level 1. To that, add 4 skills for every mode you've completed. +4 for norm, +4 for for nm, etc.
3) Depends on what you like. If you want a cheap and easy start into LLD, make a level 9 TSer/18 zealot/30 charger. Cheap, simple, cookie cutter. Progress from there according to personal preference and information you dig up on the net.
1) There is a site out there (google it) that has standards and rules for LLD. Their levels vary depending on the class (usually fitting into 9/18/30 brackets, lower as needed) and some things are not allowed. Whether you want to participate in that is your choice though: their tournaments happen once in a blue moon and tend to be too elite to be worth joining (since they've been LLDing longer than you've played D2) and in pub games nobody really cares about those rules. So just go with whatever level you'd like - I tend to go for the lowest level I can use my equip yet, or the coolest looking level.
2) At base you've got (level-1) skills, so 29 at level 30 or 17 at level 18, since you get no skill at level 1. To that, add 4 skills for every mode you've completed. +4 for norm, +4 for for nm, etc.
3) Depends on what you like. If you want a cheap and easy start into LLD, make a level 9 TSer/18 zealot/30 charger. Cheap, simple, cookie cutter. Progress from there according to personal preference and information you dig up on the net.
Alright, cool...I get what you mean. I got to get to work in like an hour this morning so I have no time. I'll probably do a low character just so it looks cool when your killing guys like double your level lol.
HLLD is lvl 30.
Look at like the 3rd post, the guy explained everything...
Actually those are just what I call them :/ Though VLLD is used a lot for lvl 9
Actually those are just what I call them :/ Though VLLD is used a lot for lvl 9
How can you do anything at lvl 9? Truely, lol. I'm gonna try it though with a Assassin...
HappyAssassin
19-09-2006, 04:49
Here's what you want at VLLD. Make an Assassin with 1 point BoS, rest Tiger Strike, use Umbral Disk as a shield and equip the highest Damage claw you can find on the other hand. Get as much life as possible, and Socket Max Damage jewels (+9) ideally into as much of your gear as possible, using multi socket items. Then just charge and attack, and youll kill suprisingly well.
DelinquentFury
19-09-2006, 05:11
or you could mindblast and use lightning traps with over 1k dmg at lvl 30.
Or even better, fire traps. They have a range problem and suck up mana like mad, but stunlock like crazy. Just be sure to pack a belt of mana potions.
That's the worst TS sin advice I've ever read.
First of all, you have 20 skill points to use on a hell rushed level 9.
2 bos
9 ts
9 claw mastery
Second of all, Umbral disk sucks - slow blocking. Pelta is the only choice for a TS sin.
Use a 3 socket blade talon with +max jewels.
How can you do anything at lvl 9? Truely, lol. I'm gonna try it though with a Assassin...
My level 9 sacrafice pally does 1400 max damage. You can easily kill players much higher than you.
The best TS vllds are min dmg builds, they end up doing like 950-951 damage charged.
HappyAssassin
19-09-2006, 20:20
So the difference is that you use a different shield and spent the time to get rushed through hell and do all the skill quests. Sorry if my suggestion wasn't right for building a serious VLLDer, I just suggested the one I've used for pub pking.
Also, you recommend Max Damage in the claw, but should the other sockets be Minimum Damage? I assume this is the case since you say that Minimum is the way to go. Please elaborate.
PhatTrumpet
19-09-2006, 21:11
Just go with one or the other. Max dmg is going to be cheap and effective, but the damage range ends up being extremely wide. Min dmg is going to be much more expensive and much harder to get your hands on since not many people think to keep such jewels/charms. The idea is to increase your min dmg by so much that it also increases your max dmg (your min obviously can't be more than your max), resulting in very good, consistent dmg output. The major catch is that it requires very good jewels and charms to outclass the max dmg build.
Pelta is the only choice for a TS sin.
It's not the only choice. I'm partial to a good (take your pick of prefix) Bone shield of Deflecting with 2 sockets to be filled with +max (or +min if thats your preference) jewels.
-Matt
A lot of people use a 2os BSoD with a prefix (or 17 fhr rare with mechanics mod and deflecting) but I can tell you from personal experience that is is nowhere NEAR as effective as a Pelta. The extra frame blocking is essential in VLLD duels. It's worth the loss of a socket.
Heres a shield I was using on my mini TS sin. It looks absolutely godly, but Pelta works much better.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m55/bbbbzzzz/zzzzaaa.jpg
Also, you recommend Max Damage in the claw, but should the other sockets be Minimum Damage? I assume this is the case since you say that Minimum is the way to go. Please elaborate.
It's best to go with all minimum damage. Theres no point in getting +max on 1 or 2 jewels if you're using a min build. The max will do nothing since your total +min exceeds your total +max
I just mentioned max in the claw because not many people can afford to make a good min build. Then I recommended a min build as the best, but I don't expect someone who is new to vlld to actually afford a good one. Sorry for the confusion.
A
Heres a shield I was using on my mini TS sin. It looks absolutely godly, but Pelta works much better.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m55/bbbbzzzz/zzzzaaa.jpg
Each to his own I suppose, I've had some very, very nice BSoD's on level 9 assassins before, as well as peltas with nice jewels, and I've never found the pelta to be anything close to the BSoD's. This is probably another hc/sc or case by case scenario (hc vs sc because of the potential for extra damage compared to a frame of blocking which wont do much in a hc duel, but might be the difference in a SC one)
-Matt
-Matt
Yeah, I've been reading all of these by the way. I'm ISO a Luna Pelta as well as min damage jewels. I figure if I'm gonna spend the time to build it, I might as well build the best I possibly can.
...and so the search begins for min damage jewels.
Where can you find jewels like that, or the charms? Normal...Nightmare...Hell...
Thanks.
You can find them anywhere.
8 min is the most min damage possible on a level 9 jewel.
4 min prefix + 4min suffix = 8 min total. On a min only build, this is the equivalent of a 16 max jewel in average damage. Of course 14 is the highest max actually possible on a level 9 jewel. That's why min damage is superior to max damage.
On a rare jewel, you can get 2 other mods as well.
My best min jewel is 8min 25ar -15 req.
Most vllds use a -60 req ancient armor, so you will want 4 jewels with -req on them. Also, with a ts sin, you will want -15 req on your claw, or -30 req if you are using a bone shield of deflection.
The average of a 14 max jewel comes to 1-14 --> 15/2=7.5 av dam. Also, the min damage build has the problem that it has to overcome say 1-15 damage range on a weapon first before it can add to the effectual damage output. So, your +14 maxes get an advantage there... they add straight onto the highest possible damage.
Yes, minimal damage is more effectual, but it is due to the constant damage. When a battle comes down to three strikes, however, we (the HC people) choose the maximum damage, as its say 150 guaranteed vs a lucky 300-300-300 in a row.
Yeah, I'm not talking about HC.
A max damage jewel has an average damage of 7. I don't know where you're getting 1-14 damage, it should be 0-14 damage. A max damage jewel adds nothing to min damage.
You're right that you have to overcome the disparity between min and max on the weapon before you start getting the bonus to max from min jewels. I wouldn't recommend a min build for a jabber where the gap between min and max damage on an eth tspear is quite high. However, a blade talon does 10-14 damage, so your first 8min jewel already bridges the gap easily.
Yes, minimal damage is more effectual, but it is due to the constant damage.
It's more than consistency. It has higher overall damage. A softcore player looks at an 8min jewel exactly the same as a 16 max jewel. They have the same average damage. Consistency has nothing to do with it.
It's more than consistency. It has higher overall damage. A softcore player looks at an 8min jewel exactly the same as a 16 max jewel. They have the same average damage. Consistency has nothing to do with it.
Consistency has a lot to do with it, a min damage build will leave you with, say, 950-951 damage, as opposed to a max damage build which might leave you with 200-1400. The potential for higher max damage is there, but it lacks consistency. Having higher average damage is essentially the same thing as consistency. Given perfect max and perfect min dmg jewels, I'd take the max anyday in HC, and the min anyday in SC.
-Matt
Once again, I'm not arguing about hardcore. I agree that a max damage build is better in hardcore.
What I'm saying is this:
While a min damage build is more consistent, that is not the reason why it is better. It's better because it does more damage over time than a max damage build.
While a min damage build is more consistent, that is not the reason why it is better. It's better because it does more damage over time than a max damage build.
Thats the same thing as consistency. More damage over time due to a higher average damage is the same as consistency ;) Anyways, its a minor point, as I see what you're saying, and in the context you're saying it (ie, min damage for a SC build, max for a hc one, which we seem to agree on), I agree completely.
-Matt
haha, ok so here it goes...
If I build SC, I'm going minimum damage...
If I go HC, I'm going maximum damage...
Got it, lol. Thanks.
lol but wots the point in having a high max dmg if u have to relly on a lucky roll to hit it?
This is why Grief is a popular weapon choice due to the high consistant dmg, and worst of all this max dmg difference may only be minor pvp dmg difference, however consistant high dmg is still a better choice.
Maybe cuz im not hc i don't understand this but i would rather take say a 3-5k dmg over a 2k-6k cuz wot if u get some crappy rolls?
lol but wots the point in having a high max dmg if u have to relly on a lucky roll to hit it?
This is why Grief is a popular weapon choice due to the high consistant dmg, and worst of all this max dmg difference may only be minor pvp dmg difference, however consistant high dmg is still a better choice.
Maybe cuz im not hc i don't understand this but i would rather take say a 3-5k dmg over a 2k-6k cuz wot if u get some crappy rolls?
Because in hardcore, its a matter of killing your opponents quickly, if you have higher average damage, but lower maximum, you're going to miss out on the big KO hits to actually get kills. In other words, its not about always doing consistent damage, its about the big hits in HC.
P.S, I'd take the 2-6k over the 3-5k in either HC or SC, their average damage is the same, and 2-6 has a higher max damage. The difference would be something like 4-5k or 2-6k, with the 4-5k having higher average, with the 2-6 having potential for bigger hits.
-Matt
lmao, I love all these complications that get thrown into a seemingly easy thing such as lld...which you come to find out isn't so simple.
I see what you mean though completely, with HC you want them DEAD. Its kill or be killed and if you can deliver that 600 damage over consistant 200's, its a lot better. You can defenitly kill them in 3 hits going 200 at a time BUT you could simply smash them in 1 for 600 if you get lucky...which is much better then standing there and taking another 4 hits from him and taking that risk.
One question...could you do a lld sorc? I didn't see anything powerful possibly coming out of that but I'm just wondering...
Thats the same thing as consistency. More damage over time due to a higher average damage is the same as consistency ;)
No it's not the same.
1-500 damage has more damage over time than 200-201 damage. However it is not more consistent.
What I'm saying is that a min damage build is BETTER because it does MORE DAMAGE. It is also more consistent damage, but consistency in damage does not matter in SC vlld dueling. All that matters is average damage.
No it's not the same.
1-500 damage has more damage over time than 200-201 damage. However it is not more consistent.
What I'm saying is that a min damage build is BETTER because it does MORE DAMAGE. It is also more consistent damage, but consistency in damage does not matter in SC vlld dueling. All that matters is average damage.
No, I'm not saying 1-500 is more consistent, I'm saying 200-201 is more consistent, because it is. You will consistently do either 200 or 201 damage, whereas with the 1-500, you have the potential for much higher max damage, but also the potential for much lower damage. It's less consistent because there are more possible outcomes. Given a scenario with 501 possible outcomes, and one with 2 possible outcomes, the one with 2 is invariably going to give you more consistent results.
The min damage build is not better in all cases, it does NOT do more damage all the time, yes, it has a higher average damage, because the range is much lower (as you said in your example, 200-201, you pretty much know what you're gonna get with each hit), however it does NOT have the potential to do as much damage as a max damage build. If you're talking average damage, or damage over time (essentially the same thing), yes, a min damage build is the better choice, but when you're making one and banking on the big roll to get that ear, its max damage all the way, because the potential for a really high roll is there.
Mt. Dew, they're generally not the most effective until you get closer to 30, but its possible. Your three options are, in a nutshell, Fireballer, ice bolt and tele-merc. The tele-merc wont be viable until you hit 27 in my experience with it, as thats when you can give the merc a nasty honor weapon. Ice bolt works relatively decent at lower levels (sub 18), but is more suited to pking than dueling. Fireball will work for pking, but unless you invest a lot of wealth into it, it'll be a subpar dueler. (even then, it wont keep up with similarly geared opponents)
-Matt
The min damage build is not better in all cases, it does NOT do more damage all the time, yes, it has a higher average damage, because the range is much lower
You don't understand. The min damage does not have higher average because the range is lower.
The range is lower - but that is not the reason that it has higher average damage. The reason it has higher damage is because (min+max)/2 is higher on a min build than on a max build. The consistency of a min build does not influence my decision to choose it over a max build.
We are just arguing over semantics here because I agree that a max damage build is better for hardcore. It's just frustrating to hear your minsonceptions on why min damage is good. I hear similar things all the time, and it frustrates me. An 8 min jewel is good because it has the same average as a 16 max jewel.
You don't understand. The min damage does not have higher average because the range is lower.
The range is lower - but that is not the reason that it has higher average damage. The reason it has higher damage is because (min+max)/2 is higher on a min build than on a max build. The consistency of a min build does not influence my decision to choose it over a max build.
My mistake on the wording of that last post, I didnt mean to say its average damage would be higher because its range was lower, I meant to say its more consistent because its range is lower, and that a min damage build will always have both higher average damage, and a lower range, and therefore will be more consistent. Sorry about the miswording.
-Matt
Actually, the problem in hardcore is chickenhack. If it werent for chicken and save-exit, and every fight would be to the death, I'd go for minimal damage every day. Alas, we need that idiotic 1800 dam spike to kill people in one blow. Zealots are pretty unbeatable, yet for HC pk-ing and d uellin g you might as well use a charger, because you have a chance of a bad-hit-good-hit KO (A bad hit is 30% life, and the good hit then takes 71%... ;) ). Something that does consistant damage will only cause chicken to trigger at a certain point in time.
@Zangeif
Hmm, if a jewel adds only one to maximum damage, would it add 0-1 or just 1? I think I might have made a teeny mistake there ;)
lmao, I love all these complications that get thrown into a seemingly easy thing such as lld...which you come to find out isn't so simple.
I see what you mean though completely, with HC you want them DEAD. Its kill or be killed and if you can deliver that 600 damage over consistant 200's, its a lot better. You can defenitly kill them in 3 hits going 200 at a time BUT you could simply smash them in 1 for 600 if you get lucky...which is much better then standing there and taking another 4 hits from him and taking that risk.
One question...could you do a lld sorc? I didn't see anything powerful possibly coming out of that but I'm just wondering...
Hmm, if a jewel adds only one to maximum damage, would it add 0-1 or just 1? I think I might have made a teeny mistake there ;)
Yes, if a jewel adds 1 to max damage, it adds 0-1 damage (of course 1max jewels don't exist). If you take off a +max item and look at your damage in the character screen, you will notice that your min damage does not change.
If a jewel adds the same amount of min and max damage (lets say 5 damage), it does not display as "adds 5 damage." It displays as "+5 min damage, +5 max damage"
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