WereBears Viable in PvP? Maul or Fireclaws?

[Josiphos]

Hi all,

Yesterday I was dueling and I was surprised (shocked is a better word) to find a flame bear! Seemed like he lost alot, but he seemed to be having a blast!

My question is: are they viable? I'm not talking about owning all classes, but can they hold their own? TG Bowazons will own them, but whatever. I looked through most of the druid guides on this topic, but it seemed to be outdated.

I have access to all the uber gear (no v 1.08 stuff :cry: ), so any suggestions on maul v fireclaws? I worry about stringing 6 hits together for the maul...but a fireclaws build does not leave much for non-synergy stuff. I see 2 routes;

Mauler
20 Lycanth
20 Werebear
20 maul
1 shockwave
20 HoW
1 Raven
1 Spirit wolf
(16 skill points left here...cyclone armor?)

or Flamebear

20 Lycanth
1 Wearbear
20 fireclaws
1 oak
1 raven
1 spirit wolf
55 in fireclaw synergies

The mauler gives immense damage...at 5 frame attack, has much more life and defense.

Flame bear gives higher damage...but with resists and pvp penalty....I wonder. I'd have access to 5/5 facets...which seem to amp the damage quite a bit...but I wonder if a mauler might be better.


Any thoughts? Anyone made this type recently? Its more of a fun build I know, but I dont want to get completely owned either.

[superjayson]

mauler can hold its own its just very expensive.
fire claw's are easier to build, but also easier to beat due to absorb.

[superjayson]

boo double post so uh (insert something interesting here)

[proudfoot]

Back when I played I believe with a properly modded Phase Blade (115 IAS I think it was) you could get a four frame Maul, which is going to give you an advantage against Zealots and Werewolves at the cost of some damage. Played right, they were great in duels though.

[Jary]

For a few reasons:
-maul gives poor ar, prolly half attack rating of fireclaw
-poor damage on whole
-too slow attack speed to win vs smite/zeal/charged imo
-xtra life/defense doesn't make much a difference since you rely more on damage instead of +skillz, so fireclaw build sorta evens out in that sense. I mean, lets say the mauler has lvl 20 lycanothropy and +9 skills, so lvl 29 lyc... any great fireclaw will have like 1 point in lycanth, +21 shape skillz, so lvl 22 lycanthropy anyways ^^
-fireclaw is more flexible build: you can have from 12-18k damage with facets helping to lower resists when necessary, and a 2.8->5k fissure (also deadly with facets for any chargers/ww barbs/zons)

suggestions:
-don't waste points in lycanthropy, always go with the damage if you're gonna' win. Kill them before they kill u and rely on strategy more than tanking. U also have the opportunity to shape back whenever your damage would put u over. Also, if you think about it, in most duels it comes down to who kills fastest rather than who tanks the most usually. Ie: u can anticipate a fire sorc and one hit kill her taking 3 fireballs in the chest and unshaping, but u still win.

My lvl 89 build thus far:
20 firestorm
*rest points-> Molten Boulder
20 fissure
20 volcano
1 lycan
1 bear
20 fireclaw
1 oak
1 raven/spirit/dire (Dire helps bump your spirits life up for pvm, so they're not such lil' baby beyotches and die as fast ^^, just my call though)

Standard Gear:
Helm: Jalal 'shael'
Armor: nigma (aldurs works too--good xtra ar/block too)
Weaps: 6os PB (4shael, 2 15ias-1-ar/1-all resists)/4bo cta/6os PB +30/-30% faceted
shields: SS 'um'/4os Monarch 20/-20% fire
belt: vertungos
gloves: mage (bloodfist 2nd)
boots: Aldurs (only one I never change :D )
rings: upper end Ravenfrosts/+110%ar 10 life/+11 resists ring

Stash: Dtorch, anni, 4 shape, lifeys-or whatever else missing
(I only went 4 shape, mainly 'cause they're only like +10-19 life ones, but I like adding 2 +120% ar/lifeys too to booste accuracy a bit. I strongly feel that if u add too many generic GC's you're missing out a lot on life and other things)

I hope this helps a lil' as a place to start... I'm not saying u have to do it "exactly" like I do it, but this is my 4th fireclaw build and I've had pretty desc results and I've won quite a bit in duels (rarely lose to another shaper). If there's anything you're not sure about hit me back, lata playa ^^

[inkanddagger]

There are a lot of different ways to set up a fireclaw druid, but they are definately viable.

Some personal thoughts:


if you aren't too worried about resistances, I.E. you usually duel melee oriented builds, bow zons, or magic damage oriented builds (so really, you only need to worry about sorcs, other fireclaws, or posion damage - all of which you can have a shield to stack against in your stash, I would say:

24 fhr 20/-20 armor or 80+ life 20/-20 armor. CoH is good for all around otherwise.
faceted jalals
faceted stormshield for vs physical damage
110ias/30 res phase blade or 105 ias caddy (for dealing phys dmg)
5 shael/facet war scythe
triple res boots, waterwalks, or gore riders (ow/cb for fire immunes/absorbers) - you decide if you want to build to the stats or not.
angelics/raven or metalgrid/raven/bk
bloodfists
ber shaft for vs smite
sanctuary might also be a viable shield option for pub games.


if you go with 100 life armor, waterwalks, and have lots of good life shifters, don't bother maxing lycan, you should still hit 6k+ life.


aldurs armor + boots adds some decent attack rating, stats, life and res too. I actually built an aldurs fc build, very nice looking damage/ar/life, but only 7fpa.

[Josiphos]

There are a lot of different ways to set up a fireclaw druid, but they are definately viable.



Thx for the help so far guys. I ran some numbers with Maul. From first glance, then numbers look impressive: 550% Ar, 520-900% enhanced damage, 235% life, 230% defense. But, in order to get a decent fpa, I needed to use a really fast weapon. The really popular RWs dont supply that. The only one that looked halfway decent was grief Pb (8 frames). Grief zerker was a slow 10 frames; might as well not swing at all. But even the pB damage, after pvp and DR, wasn't that great. Then I did the fireclaws damage, and saw what a jump facets give it just by lowering resists 5%; around 120 damage AFTER pvp penalty. So I think I will go with the fireclaw route.

Now I'm wondering, bear or wolf? If only using 1 pt in either, why not wolf? Better AR (+215% at L12) vs bear (+127% damage, +80% def, +25% more base life). Is it the life boost? Wolf seems to have a max of 5 frames, with bear having 4 fpa.



aldurs armor + boots adds some decent attack rating, stats, life and res too. I actually built an aldurs fc build, very nice looking damage/ar/life, but only 7fpa.


What does this mean? ^ Do you mean to say you used the Aldur's set? After looking at the bonuses, it seems possible...bouble ber the helm, dungo belt, triple shael the mace, great resists, HUGE boost to VIT/STR/DEX. But a max of 7 fpa...in which case the nice RW weapons start to win out.

Something about a 4 fpa attack doing 800-900 damage (after resists) sounds evil.:evil: I was thinking a tomb reaver or range 5 weap on switch or maybe the 'lots of facets' route (6 pb, 4 monarch). I'm excited about this!

There is the Hand of Justive PB with -20% fire resist and a 7 fpa....
Anymore thoughts?

[Jary]

-First off... use bear, u swing faster and it just works more effective. But if u really want to, u always have opportunity to use wolf remember :D ...sometimes I'll use just as a joke, but there's a noticeable diff in speed from 5 frames--> 4!

-hand of justice @7frames...hmm, sry but its just too slow. Aldurs set gives u all around great bonuses but you'll just feel like a sad panda when u see how much slower u swing. Don't use tomb reavers, etc, just stack all out fire synergies and rely on your speed to kill.

Hint: come across fire immune bosses, use Goblin Toes/Guilliames and just crushing blow them to death! If you need more damage, charge up maul for stunnage and switch your ss with a 20/-20 monarch and the cows/enemies will drop like flies...

well ****e, i gotta get to bed, peace, gl

[RareBear]

Hi all,

Yesterday I was dueling and I was surprised (shocked is a better word) to find a flame bear! Seemed like he lost alot, but he seemed to be having a blast!
completely owned either.


Its more shocking to see a Mauler, now that is something I RARELY see. FC Bears are rare also, but I do see them, and they are much more common than Maulers.

I just hope (I doubt it) Blizz would seriously improve Werebears, in a future patch, (if there ever will be) mainly on the very low AR issue

[Valvolux]

Maulers can't be absorbed, fc can.

Fc bears usually 1 hit KO someone or can't damage em at all.

Maulers at least stand a chance vs. all, gl vs. gumby+prison tho :azn:

[naturebunns]

By the way


I just spent so much equipping a mauler on ladder only to find that even with the most expensive equipment you can get, maulers suck balls

[Valvolux]

I just spent so much equipping a mauler on ladder only to find that even with the most expensive equipment you can get, maulers suck balls

Totally disagree.

[Verashiden]

^ Agrees. I saw a MAuler tear up the pubby I was in today. It was funny as hell :)

[naturebunns]

maulers suck balls


unless you're ONLY dueling other shifted druids or a pure zealot

and even then, eh


Fireclaws simply owns the **** out of maul

[Pavement]

maulers suck balls


unless you're ONLY dueling other shifted druids or a pure zealot

and even then, eh


Fireclaws simply owns the **** out of maul


BUT maul owns fireclaws druids and berzerk barbs, and eshield sorcs if you can get that first hit going. ;)

[Josiphos]

maulers suck balls


unless you're ONLY dueling other shifted druids or a pure zealot

and even then, eh


Fireclaws simply owns the **** out of maul

Ok. So who am I to believe? 2 Say maulers suck, 2 say maulers rule.

I think it comes down to wether you can live with only swinging at 7 fpa with a good runeword (Maul version). If you could, then the enhanced damage defense, life, etc would win out.

On the other hand, if you NEED 4fpa...then fireclaws is the way to go...cause enh dam with a crappy weapon is "C'est ne pa bien" as they say..

So...seems like fireclaws unless you only duel...crappy duelers? :tongue:

[naturebunns]

Go ahead


make a mauler and take it to any pubby


and watch as any paladin with even 1 point in smite owns your mauler and you struggle against all other classes pretty much (you rarely see shifted druids in pubs)


then make a fireclaws druid and realize how much better they are

[Verashiden]

Except in LLD/MLD :/.

[naturebunns]

well, I'm not considering LLD or MLD in any of the discussion


the problem is, when was the last time you ran into a berzerk barb? or concentrate barb (even these are rough with a mauler because of uninterruptable attack as well) or a pure zealot?

Conditions on Nonladder may be different but on ladder, the classes that a Mauler can easily beat are just about non existant


A mauler won't do anything worth while in a pub on useast ladder, and is simply a waste of time spent leveling the character to 90 that I put in

[Valvolux]

I won't lie, Maulers are hard to play and have a disadvantage vs. most other chars, tho I’d say FC bears are worse off, due to the fact they can be totally absorbed.

You don't see that many in pubbies because ppl are impatient and don't really understand how Maulers work, hence 100,000 hammerdins on bnet.

[RareBear]

I won't lie, Maulers are hard to play and have a disadvantage vs. most other chars, tho I’d say FC bears are worse off, due to the fact they can be totally absorbed.

You don't see that many in pubbies because ppl are impatient and don't really understand how Maulers work, hence 100,000 hammerdins on bnet.

Yes, 100% agreed

[naturebunns]

They can be absorbed, but absorb gear makes you sacrifice other gear

thus enabling to move to a -20/20 jmod switch instead of using your stormshield

if someone wants to sorb me, untimately they can

but they're gonna have to make enough gear changes everyone else in the pub is gonna rage them (unless we're all fire elementals)


tis the beauty of pubbing...gear must be balanced for the most part


I don't isolate myself in druidpk anymore, with 100,000 rule sets, and such

I duel in the real world and in the real world, fireclaw druids rage a lot harder than maulers

[Valvolux]

With a fc bear if your opponent just uses Dwarf Star +Hotspur your damage ends up less than a Mauler vs. full DR, not much of a sacrifice IMO.

A Mauler will beat any fc bear 1 on 1, and anything you can kill with a fc bear in a pubby you'll could with a Mauler.