View Full Version : Gear on east, critique.
IMCanadian
09-09-2006, 01:04
29 res forti 16xx def
37 ias grief pb +388 dmg
40/14 dungo
p raven
highlords
8 LL rare ring with res/life/str/dex mods
gores
dracs
shaeld ss
shaeld jalal
switch: 6bo cta, spirit
Charms:
5xshape gc (3 with 30 lifer mods)
20 life sc's
max dmg/ar other mod sc's
res scs
fhr scs to hit 86 bp
Stash:
Upped shaeld ribcracker
CoH dusk
steelrends
angelics
trang gloves
enigma (do I really need for frw? since thats really all)
CoA ber/ber (any point?)
Gear im currently getting:
Trading Ebotd Ghost spear for Ebotd GPA
Aldurs boots (FRW??)
EbotdZ (Do I Need?)
Is there anything else I should get? Any subsitutes?
I maxed fury, rabies, lycan, creeper, currently maxing oak, one into: Raven, spirit wolfs.
IMC :grin:
grief is bm draculs is extremely bm and disgusting on a fury druid, it makes me sick, all the good fury druids on east will not want to duel you.
IMCanadian
09-09-2006, 01:15
Pubby:grin: East is ****ty anywayzz..
xix sephra
09-09-2006, 01:44
the weak shall not inherit the earth... use the best own the rest!!!!!
Valvolux
09-09-2006, 05:00
grief is bm draculs is extremely bm and disgusting on a fury druid, it makes me sick, all the good fury druids on east will not want to duel you.
How is using a legit item on your char interpreted as 'bad' in any way? Bad manners should be describing nking, town hugging/guarding, 2 vs 1, 3rd party hacks etc. not your char/item choices.
IMCanadian
09-09-2006, 05:21
TY valo for defending me..same way I think of it. It's part of that game, how is it BM? Oh well, welcome to furypk useast!
superjayson
09-09-2006, 06:22
lots of people make up their own rules when dueling and force everyone else into following them.
Chumtoad
09-09-2006, 07:07
The "good-mannered" rules in dueling are there to keep things fun, fair, and balanced. For example, 50% life leech (from lifetap, as ordinary leech was "balanced" to barely work against players) and elemental immunity (from absorb) may be great for PvM, but both are ruinous to PvP.
The "good-mannered" rules in dueling are there to keep things fun, fair, and balanced. For example, 50% life leech (from lifetap, as ordinary leech was "balanced" to barely work against players) and elemental immunity (from absorb) may be great for PvM, but both are ruinous to PvP.
Those rules change from person to person. I, for example, find dracul's to be perfectly acceptable, even if the tap is annoying. Some people say fade is bm, I think it's fine. I just think it's retarded when people have to go out of their way to completely nullify something you do, like when people stack resist, and put on tgod + 2 wisps against my ww/trap assassin. That's just annoying.
inkanddagger
09-09-2006, 13:47
So why aren't you guys using cleglaws and arachnid vs melee?
LeegionOnEast
09-09-2006, 14:12
I don't mind dueling people with Life Tap. I've been working on my druid to be able to beat the Life Tap of eExile+Drac using Zeolots. Heck, I usally kill them in 1-3 hits. Greif isn't that overpowered, my eBOTDz beats them up before they can even reach me most of the time.
By the way, how is your AR? I have 33K, that's the only way I can race Zeolots.
the rules are very simple, and on east everyone with a descent melee character follows them, if others don't they don't duel them.
We're not forcing our rules on anyone, we're not dueling those who wish to make bm characters.
as i said the rules are simple. no chance to cast offencive spells, no poision slow or stacked ele damage, and no prebuffing
it keeps melee melee.
the rules are very simple, and on east everyone with a descent melee character follows them, if others don't they don't duel them.
We're not forcing our rules on anyone, we're not dueling those who wish to make bm characters.
as i said the rules are simple. no chance to cast offencive spells, no poision slow or stacked ele damage, and no prebuffing
it keeps melee melee.
I guess that means that holy shock zealots are BM? Or are they casters?
Also, where is this supposed all encompassing rule list that everyone follows? I haven't seen it. I'd like to know where on bnet I can find the link, so that I can see that it is, officially, The Rules Of Melee Duels As Written By Bnet
I guess that means that holy shock zealots are BM? Or are they casters?
Also, where is this supposed all encompassing rule list that everyone follows? I haven't seen it. I'd like to know where on bnet I can find the link, so that I can see that it is, officially, The Rules Of Melee Duels As Written By Bnet
I told you we don't force our rules on anyone, if people make bm characters we don't duel them, want to find out the rules go ask someone on east who has a decent melee character.
I don't know why you think b.net has to say somethign to make it legit.
and btw feel free to not follow the rules, be bm. Just don't expect people to duel you.
IMCanadian
09-09-2006, 21:22
Heh, my ar only 15k with angelics...since most pubbies arent hardcore melee, this doesnt effect me much. I am having a FRW problem catching sorcs and trappers, and running away while waiting for rabies to kill them:P I usually keep casting my summons and stupidly they move closer to me trying to kill them untill I can move in and one fury they are done. And with botd...I pwn way more ppl then with grief...so...I dunno.
Edit: I think he was being slightly sarcastic in the Bnet comment...It is more or less who is to make up the rules of BM other then the makers of the game? FYI I am vs all, so I'm not strictly melee, therefore I don't feel that all melee rules apply to me.
IMC:grin:
RareBear
10-09-2006, 02:52
So why aren't you guys using cleglaws and arachnid vs melee?
Exactly, that what I usually do once I notice my opponent is using a greif/or Dracs.
superjayson
10-09-2006, 03:02
"follow our rules or we wont duel you" seems like a more cival way of forcing them upon people.
Valvolux
10-09-2006, 03:24
Trooper you make it sound like if you choose certain items you char becomes 'inferior' in some way. Shouldn't the 'decent' melee duelers be able to handle this?
And this whole "the rules" is crap, if you want to make up some guide lines and get your friends to agree that’s fine. But don't act like there are some universal set of rules and by following them makes you superior to the ppl that like pubby dueling.
If you take the game so seriously that you refuse to duel someone using a pair of 'clegs' then that’s your loss.
IMCanadian
10-09-2006, 07:03
Personally, I find it more fun and a better challenge to beat the annoying nker who uses life tap, grief, smite and every annoying "part of the game". But, topic has gotten off track who my gear situation.
Trooper you make it sound like if you choose certain items you char becomes 'inferior' in some way. Shouldn't the 'decent' melee duelers be able to handle this?
And this whole "the rules" is crap, if you want to make up some guide lines and get your friends to agree that’s fine. But don't act like there are some universal set of rules and by following them makes you superior to the ppl that like pubby dueling.
If you take the game so seriously that you refuse to duel someone using a pair of 'clegs' then that’s your loss.
These are "the rules" on east, it's not me and my friends. It is east. Go into a melee game on east and if it's not already full of casters trying to nk everyone the mele peopel will nk you if you try to use anythign i mentioned as bm. You may not liek the rules that the people of east have put on melee, but they are there. This argument goes on all the time with a few peopel who come in and say blah blah blah if it's in game i can use it. You're not goign to change anyones mind and you're not going to be gm, I don't know why you're arguing
Valvolux
11-09-2006, 08:29
Seems like a few contradictory statements there, you say the ‘Good mannered’ melee will nk (clearly bad manners) you to enforce a set of so called ‘gm rules’?
Second it doesn’t sound like the ‘rules’ as you call them are very clear or universal if a melee game is “full of casters” and ppl can’t agree as to what bm and gm is at all.
inkanddagger
11-09-2006, 08:50
The rules have been the rules since 08.
see pvpwest forums or gimmeitam, clan honor, 76 legit, palapk nation, civic, dtrades melee ladder pvp, Druid Alliance (D_A)...etc etc. Curses, offensive spells, poison, stacked elemental, slow, not saying !go, aura stack, in some cases not walking, nk are the common procedures considered BM.
On East, in order to duel the top melee, you simply can't use those items, or they won't duel you, and you won't be able to prove how good you are because you'll be too busy either a)ranting and raging about how much you like using your bm gear/procedures or b)trying to find a way to beat them by the established, common law of the realm.
making a public melee game means that you will attract people that you might not see in one of the private games, and that also means inviting people who want to dominate everyone with their bone mancer. However, if you come in and bm an established melee game, you will be nked until you leave, and then the gm melee resumes.
also, HS auradin would be considered bm because the aura "Casts" a spell, which doesn't require attack rating or melee range to do damage to the opponent.
Valvolux
11-09-2006, 09:39
Seems like an oxymoron to call someone a ‘top melee dueler’ when they wont duel someone just because they don’t like the items he/she chose.
Just because small groups of ppl deem some item ‘good mannered’ or ‘bad mannered’ doesn’t make it so. If you want to abide by those groups rules then go for it, but stop making it sound like if you’re part of one of these groups you’re superior in some way to someone who chooses to pubby duel.
Seems like an oxymoron to call someone a ‘top melee dueler’ when they wont duel someone just because they don’t like the items he/she chose.
Just because small groups of ppl deem some item ‘good mannered’ or ‘bad mannered’ doesn’t make it so. If you want to abide by those groups rules then go for it, but stop making it sound like if you’re part of one of these groups you’re superior in some way to someone who chooses to pubby duel.
No one cares, stop arguing.
inkanddagger
11-09-2006, 10:35
the problem with your logic valvo is that on east, you are in the minority when it comes to melee. the common law is so engrained that if you choose to use any item you wish to use, you will only be able to duel the other rejects and outcasts.
Valvolux
11-09-2006, 12:22
So thankful I'm on west then :wink3:
inkanddagger
11-09-2006, 12:30
So thankful I'm on west then :wink3:
It's also why I didn't rebuild on east but rather west when my accounts were taken.
IMCanadian
11-09-2006, 18:54
East doesnt like west, and pubbies are the real dueling now anywayz, there are more ppl in pubbie duels then private, especially since you outlaw so many ppl. Pubbies are horrible, no one ever says go, they nk, never wait till your ready, but, if you can duel them, then you have skill IMO. My problem is that you make the generalization that not dueling by your rules is "BM". Fine, not your rules east rules, but my point is, it's not "BM", it's dueling by a different set of rules. Bad manners is not saying ty, yw, excuse me, or in this case, go or nking. It bothers me how you call me bad manners for choosing an item in the game, I'm not BM I just don't duel by your rules.
Oh and BTW, I don't use any "BM" items, oh and I got my EbotdGPA 400%!!
IMC :GRIN:
inkanddagger
12-09-2006, 00:19
Does one bring an AK-47 to a fencing match?
Why, or why not?
TheBassman
12-09-2006, 02:31
I myself build all my melee characters by "Old" Tempe standards. Not by the new ones with poison and CTA and all those items. I'm not one to force my ways on anyone else, I dispise when someone else tells me I'm wrong by following rules when I enter a Pub.
I'm sick of people saying this stuff about items not being "bm", when someone comes into a private game we've setup to duel with our rules and they decide they don't want to follow our rules anymore we call them bad mannered for using the items we've outlawed. If you want to use your CTAs, Mass poison SCs or CTC% Items, feel free to do so as long as you aren't in my games. :grin:
That's all I have to say on that subject,
And no Ink they don't it would be bad-mannered.
~LesC
IMCanadian
12-09-2006, 03:15
Ink, I havent the slightest who your directing that to, but if it's me, thats totally irrelevant. AK-47's kill ppl, thats the point of using one, fencing swords poke ppl for points, thats the point of that. So, if your point is to kill ppl (which, in my mind, the point of D2 dueling is), you would chose the best weapon. So AK-47 or fencing sword?
But, I also don't understand why you put that, since what my beef is with the BM item rules is that the items were entered into the game by blizzard, blizzard created dueling, therefore, where is it anyones right to say, other then blizzards, what things should and should not be aloud in duels. Besides blizzards already removed things liek ITD.
And for the record ink, I think uses a paint ball gun would make more sence, since its kinda like scoring points...
IMC :grin:
inkanddagger
12-09-2006, 04:01
The point I was trying to make is: In the realm of melee pvp on diablo 2, the game is played much like a fencing match, where players constantly strive to improve their skills in close quarters combat, in order to prove their skill and prowess within the particular strictures of the match. One wouldn't expect a fencer to pull out, for example, a gun during a match, shoot his opponent, and then declare victory. One also wouldn't expect him to toss a glob of poisoned green ink, or bite, or toss a hammer. Of course, these are all mere artifacts in the "game of life," but the point isn't that they exist (existence doesn't validify use), the point is that they are outside the realm of what is considered normal use per situation. You wouldn't wear a football helmet to a baseball game, because a football helmet is analogous with football, not baseball. They are both games, but they abide by different rules, all on the same planet! imagine! :tongue:
IMCanadian
12-09-2006, 04:55
I'll never agree, you wont change my mind and I wont change yours/theres, but the fact remains, poison is afflicted mostly by melee duelers, grief is a melee weapon, ctc is from melee strikes. I guess its just not "universal" rules, it's just the rules "most" of them use, whereis in football, the rules are universal. My point is dont call me "BM" for choosing items, just say the items don't fit our rules. Besides I use neither grief nor dracs nemore.
IMC :grin:
Clay bizzle
12-09-2006, 05:02
Curses, offensive spells, poison, stacked elemental, slow, not saying !go, aura stack, in some cases not walking, nk are the common procedures considered BM.
Coming from West this all sounds like a bunch of cry baby business. NKing of coarse is stupid, slow is for noobs, aura stacking possibly should be nerfed a tad, but no curses, offensive spells, or poison? I admit pubbies can get out of hand, but curses, offensive spells and poison are not even in the top ten to blame for. I mean if someone is prebuffing with CTA, Treachery, Demon Limb, as much +skills as possible and/or summoning retarded amounts of minions, then they speak for themselves as being lame because all I have to do is wait in town for 3 minutes and it's all gone.
TheBassman
12-09-2006, 05:19
Clay, you're saying it sounds like cry baby buisness based on what? I duel west and temple is mostly based on west and they follow [used to...] the same rules and I still do. Maybe it's just routine but manners apply in game as much as they do in life, or they should. Maybe you duel mainly pub and that's fine but I use GM gear only when I duel in pubs. This BM/GM junk is really irritating if I don't like the gear some people use I find a mannered way to beat them or don't duel them and it ends there. Get off this subject it's stupid.
~LesC
inkanddagger
12-09-2006, 05:37
To say that using slow is noob means that YOU consider some gear to be BM yourself - after all it's "just gear" though right? If you consider anything to be "noob" then you need to accept that there are those who will consider you "noob" for using things like poison, life tap, ctc, etc.
IMCanadian
12-09-2006, 05:57
Yeh, this raped my gear topic, I think two ppl gave me gear advice. To end this I want to make one point and I hope ppl agree with me.
Point: The Gear Is Not BM, The Player *Has* BMs. The Player *Has* BM For Not Obeying Said Rules And/Or Commits Distasteful Acts. Said Rules May Be As Follows: No Poison, No Offensive Spells, No CtC. These *Parts Of The Game* Are Not BM, The Player *Has* BM For Using These *Parts Of The Game* When Said Rules State They Are Not Aloud.
Agreed?
IMC :grin:
AlmostInfinity
12-09-2006, 06:18
I don't see how using certain gear is bad mannered. You have the same access to the weapons and gear your oppponent does.
Clay bizzle
12-09-2006, 08:35
To say that using slow is noob means that YOU consider some gear to be BM yourself - after all it's "just gear" though right? If you consider anything to be "noob" then you need to accept that there are those who will consider you "noob" for using things like poison, life tap, ctc, etc.
Well things aren't so black and white in the dueling world. I mean poison for example can be resisted along with the fact that it's not even the most dominant element compared to the other three, but "slows target" cannot be resisted and makes dueling just seem stupid doo doo dumb if you get hit with it i.e. running to town or leaving the game. Life Tap would honestly not be such an issue if it weren't for Exile's 15% chance to cast. Exile is a dominant piece of gear and in combination with an eth bugged shield makes paladins generally too powerful and Life Tap is just icing on that cake. A Life Tap wand can be considered just another prebuff that is easily negated, and Dracs is not even that common in melee duels, it's in fact only really common among BvC builds from what I have experienced. I have no problem accepting what others think, but it really suprises that the whole East server is so narrow on their perspectives. The attitude seems to me like it really restricts gear choice and playing style, even when they aren't going to dominate the game or abuse Blizzards laws. I respect you a lot Ink, and I think you've known me to be a GM player by most if not all standards. I think most in Wolfpack can testify that.
Hey IM,
Nice job on the EbotdGPA 400%! Your wolfie definately gots nice equipment on East. Maybe do Aldurs for more r/w & fire resists? I've been in diablo withdrawal since my hard drive crashed last week (sucks...). Just now got computer up and running, but haven't had time to load D2 yet. (sigh)
good luck and good hunting! (growf!)
Kirah
IMCanadian
12-09-2006, 14:03
TY Kirah, Gl with your new computer. Yeah, I was thinking aldurs, since most of the casters I am chasing are FBers. I usually use hotspurs, but they have no frw, making me way to slow even with my 90 res. Aldurs should make up for some I lose from CoH when I add nigma in for the frw, then with added aldurs, maybe a few frw charms (needa check bp's) I'll be able to catch em'. 13k fury or 40k rabies should do the trick when I'm there:grin:
Ps: Thanks for the actual gear advise!!
Pps: Sorry Ink for arguing with you!!
IMC:grin:
LeegionOnEast
15-09-2006, 05:03
400% EBOTDGPA?
Thats sexier than my 295% Upped Ribcracker.
skorpiostouch
18-09-2006, 19:29
The rules have been the rules since 08.
see pvpwest forums or gimmeitam, clan honor, 76 legit, palapk nation, civic, dtrades melee ladder pvp, Druid Alliance (D_A)...etc etc. Curses, offensive spells, poison, stacked elemental, slow, not saying !go, aura stack, in some cases not walking, nk are the common procedures considered BM.
On East, in order to duel the top melee, you simply can't use those items, or they won't duel you, and you won't be able to prove how good you are because you'll be too busy either a)ranting and raging about how much you like using your bm gear/procedures or b)trying to find a way to beat them by the established, common law of the realm.
making a public melee game means that you will attract people that you might not see in one of the private games, and that also means inviting people who want to dominate everyone with their bone mancer. However, if you come in and bm an established melee game, you will be nked until you leave, and then the gm melee resumes.
also, HS auradin would be considered bm because the aura "Casts" a spell, which doesn't require attack rating or melee range to do damage to the opponent.
clan honor is long dead, bud, stop deaming about golden years. welcome to public dueling. if you dont like it, just go duel in private games with your friends, which is what i do lately, since i hate pubbies with they overpowered cookie cutter builds. yes, leagues used to rock, they went for honorable dueling. now things have changed a lot. we have to learn to live with that, and understand theres no such thing as "rules" in public dueling games. so plz stop bringing up all that silly subject of "the rules". u obviously arent made for public dueling, then just go make you own league and have fun.
P.D. its really funny how melee builds perceive themselves as "the cream of the crop" lol. "oh, u got grief, i wont duel you". if youre really the "TOP" (sic) dueler u brag about, go get the bm gear pubbies wear and beat them by superior skill. stop complaining.
IMCanadian
19-09-2006, 08:46
400% EBOTDGPA?
Thats sexier than my 295% Upped Ribcracker.
Yumm one of my three favorite posetions(sp):
19/18/8 anni for 3hr (bought unid)
400Ed ebotd gpa
19/18 pala (found by me, Likes cuz its worth alot)
Yeh, clan honor is dead, so is any privi dueling east...east ladder at least. Pubbie take more skill, because you gotta be rdy for everything IMO. A GG l33t dueler could handle that if he was really GG.
IMC :grin: - Opinions 4 Sale!
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