THE TRAPPER/mind blaster hybridd SIN

[Apophis]

Just looked over the guides and i didn't find this one.This assasin is built by me.it exists.I think ITS for PVM and a litle PVP
This BUILD is based on the LIGHT traps and MIND BLAST.
Well.mine is in lvl-ing up now.i can tell you its UNSTOPPABLE ON PVM.I still haven't tried it on PVP
Stats:
ENERGY:nothing
Strength:you may put here SOME.REpeat SOME.for monarch but if you have str skillers don't put anything
DEXT:put here something for some block..but you can't be hitted if you are trapper...i suggest nothing.but..
vita:all in here.
SKILLS:
TRAPS:
Fire BOMB: 1
Shock web: 1-20
charged bolt sentry:20
lighting sentry:20
death sentry: 20
shadow disciplines:
claw mastery:1
fade:1
burst of speed:1
if you want to make a shadow master(its so helpful).
weapon block:1
shadow warrior:1
shadow master:1
phychic hammer:1
cloak of shadows:1
mind blast:1-20
it can be max mind blast but 1 shock web(synergy of light sentry) or can be 1 point mind blast and 1 shock web.
Equipment:
HELM:I use SHAKO.its perfect for me but better with be a circlet with some fcr,fhr,resists, +skills
ARMOR: Enigma Breast PLate (low requirement)
SHIELD:spirit monarch (fcr,fhr,skills,etc)
BOOTS:sandstorms
GLOVES:magefists(FCR)
AMULET:mara ,or a rare amu with fcr +skills,resists,fhr
rings:SOJS
weapons:hoto .you could use 2 trap claws instead of spirit and hoto but i find these more useful.
switch:cta and spirit.
9 trap skillers (preferably with Str,fhr,life)
torch
anni
20 lfie scs or FHR scs.or both
and this is it.
MERC:
INFINITY(MUST)
FORTI( good dmg for merc,etc)(could say its a must)
andy's eth(has a lot of str for infinity cv or ca)
you will have a lot of chances to convert.especially at baals and diaruns when they are a lot.just cast a lot of them.when you convert a lot.they will die faster because they hit them selves.i will give you some screenshots with my assa if you want.Any questions? Lets hear it.you could take shadow dancer for 30 FHR but sandstorm have 20 . but dancers require a lot of str.you have a lot of FCR.without fcr amulets or rings.lots of mana that will drain so slow .just put 5 traps and make a spam with mind blast.:)until now i didn't die anywhere.

[Arbedark]

So basically this is a mediocre at best trapper?


You've not listed what FCR to aim for.
You've not listed any FHR breakpoints.
Dual claws ARE better than Hoto/Spirit, simple as.
Mindblast is useless in PvM, all it does is make you wait around for the monsters to unconvert.
Why 9 trap skillers form a PvM character? No space to pick things up.
This is a below average PvP setup.
You suggest str skillers? Why? A 6 str skiller = a 18 life skiller on a Trapper...kind of a no brainer that you can get better than 18 life trap skillers, so best to put the base points in str and use life skillers so you can upgrade them...
Some dex for blocking with Spirit? Pointless...simply pointless...
So yeah, this is a badly written guide of a mediocre trapper...

[StLife]

Dual claws ARE better than Hoto/Spirit, simple as.

I beg to differ..

[Arbedark]

I beg to differ..

Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about :smiley:

Dual claws:
60% Block ALL
Up to 60% All res
Up to 12 to LS
79/79 Requirements
Socket options

HotO / Spirit:
15% Block vs Melee only
75% Light, Cold, Poison Res
40% Fire res
6 to All skills
156 Str requirement
No socket options.
65-75% FCR

Clear winner is...Dual claw....

Argue if you want, but theres no two ways about it, Dual Claw IS superior to HotO/Spirit, more damage, more protection...

Hoto/Spirit is considered the Cheap Option, if you can afford Dual claw then there is simply no reason not to go for it.

[d00m2k]

Are the resists from the dual claws from fade?

[tSDt]

plus with dual claws there also could be ias included

[order]

..... this is a trapper guide not a trapper/ mb hybrid. are u sure you couldnt find anything on the forums. not much is different from the trapper builds listed besides maybe spirit, infinity, fort runewords which have been explained in multiple threads on this forum.

mb is pretty much useless in pvm since it converts preventing your traps from killing the monsters.

it would be much more worthwhile doing 20 all light synergies and the rest into mb.

[tsangd]

Are the resists from the dual claws from fade?

I believe he was referring to the 2 open sockets that can come with magical trap claws. With 2 sockets on each trap claw, those can potentially be filled with IAS, FHR, and/or resist jewels. With 15% resist all in each of the 4 sockets, you can reach 60% resist all.

[StLife]

There's no need for arguing since there's no "best" gear.
I use my trapper for PvM/Rushing/MFing so fcr is very important.
And that list of yours is quite inaccurate..

[Arbedark]

There's no need for arguing since there's no "best" gear.
I use my trapper for PvM/Rushing/MFing so fcr is very important.
And that list of yours is quite inaccurate..

And 102% FCR BP Is still attainable with dual claws. Same as HoTO / Spirit...

You also get massively increased damage, which is needed vs bosses. Since even 13.3k Traps with a Infinity merc takes a while to take down bosses in 4+ player games. I'd hate to try it with a 10k LS...

So sorry, but it is rather simple, Claws ARE better than HotO / Spirit.

Just like Grief IS better than eBotD for a BvC...

Yes, the 60% Res are from the 15% All res options in the sockets of the claws. Although I should probable add around an extra 60% all res and 10-15% PDR for Fade which you can easily run with Dual Claw, whereas Spirit / HotO needs to run BoS...

[KuRsTxbFm]

well my last sin was 15k and infinity merc, i more a less mowed everything down with the exception of Boss's they took a while with 4+ games.... but it was fun none the less.
i built my sin more a less for Rushing/Chaos'ing.
i had, 90fcr? i think on switch,(30spirit, mage, Spider, 3/20/2 circ)
i jsut switch when i had to Tele and then back to dual claws for traps, 3/3/2's.
i put 15res jewels in them both koz at the time i needed them.
but now i decided to redo the gear, i decided to go with more +sin. 2sin/100life 2soc circ. 2/3/1 claws, i have a 15/15 in my Main claw, it has 45ias on it, not sure if i will put a ias/res jewel in the 2nd claw, have to find out if it helps or not.
but out of bout a yr with messing with trapsins, ive never liked hoto/spirit sins, they just looked ugly to me, and they seem'd to die rather quicker then dual claw sins...

and for PvM, ive never used MB, i cant recall the last time ive even used it...
ive maxed FB on my sin for those peski light immunes (until i get infinity again)
i do pretty well, still got some SC's to work on and get maybe 2-3 more gcs.

[XxDejaVuxX]

well my last sin was 15k and infinity merc, i more a less mowed everything down with the exception of Boss's they took a while with 4+ games.... but it was fun none the less.
i built my sin more a less for Rushing/Chaos'ing.
i had, 90fcr? i think on switch,(30spirit, mage, Spider, 3/20/2 circ)
i jsut switch when i had to Tele and then back to dual claws for traps, 3/3/2's.
i put 15res jewels in them both koz at the time i needed them.
but now i decided to redo the gear, i decided to go with more +sin. 2sin/100life 2soc circ. 2/3/1 claws, i have a 15/15 in my Main claw, it has 45ias on it, not sure if i will put a ias/res jewel in the 2nd claw, have to find out if it helps or not.
but out of bout a yr with messing with trapsins, ive never liked hoto/spirit sins, they just looked ugly to me, and they seem'd to die rather quicker then dual claw sins...

and for PvM, ive never used MB, i cant recall the last time ive even used it...
ive maxed FB on my sin for those peski light immunes (until i get infinity again)
i do pretty well, still got some SC's to work on and get maybe 2-3 more gcs.


how do you stunlock or catch people without mb?
and 3/3 claw is expensive lol. not everyone can afford them. so most pvm trapsin use hoto+spirit.

[jag]

I think the point trying to be made here is that the guide that started this thread is a very slight variation of a normal light trapper build.

The person writing the guide may have enjoyed playing his/her trapper but does not truly have the knowledge to write a guide.

Very little needed information is given on what breakpoints should be attained (fcr, fbr etc).

Most guides will give types of items to use for 'poorman' builds and what the ultimate gear can be.

Most guides are easy to read, unfortunately this one doesnt even have proper capitalization or punctuation.

There are several other complaints but I am truly not writing this to be mean, just hopefully pointing out the basic problems.

[Silent Shaddow]

i feel that this is another 'bookshop' build, uve been thro and looked at all the titles... but a good guide on a 'reading list/whateva analagy' should have throughly read all of the books, hence u were owned by arbedark. there are trapper builds around.. why write another 1? what have you 2 add?
im very curious about the title,
THE TRAPPER/mind blaster hybridd SIN
THE? uve got the only char/build? and why the capitals? this is nothing new...
TRAPPER/mind blaster every assasin should have atleast 1 point in mind blast
the fact that ur maxing it means that ur doing what every other pvp trapper does, and as for pvm, maxing it is pain old annoying...
why have you use the word hybrid? hybrid means that ur taking 2 different builds and combining them traps/ww, metoer orb, traps/kicker, hundreds of combinations, thats what keeps dia alive. BUT i have nvr seen a pure mind blast sin, bloody hell i would love 2 but i have nvr... so what are you optimising?
and why SIN in capitals? omfg pwnar an assasin! in the assasin sub section,
-silent

[KuRsTxbFm]

the claws only costed me a 38/394 PB grief (which was useless for me, i dont do smiters)

far as no MB.... mb=pk which i dont do anymore. too many ppl with there duped crap. imps/valms/wizz/40lifers

[HCKull]

mb is pretty much useless in pvm since it converts preventing your traps from killing the monsters.

I disagree. Your merc and shadow are out numbered and getting stomped by the bad guys. Throw a few MB in and the monsters stop fighting for bit and some even switch over to your side for a while. This turns the tide in the battle and lets your guys defeat them piece meal.

MB can save your hide.

I would look at wearing bramble and edge bow for massive thorns aura on your coverted minions so they will rip through the enemy.

Kull

[HCKull]

mb is pretty much useless in pvm since it converts preventing your traps from killing the monsters.

I disagree.

Suppose your merc and shadow are outnumbered and getting stomped by the bad guys. Throw a few MB in and the monsters stop fighting for bit and some even switch over to your side for a while. This turns the tide in the battle and lets your guys defeat them piece meal. First you and converted minion kill the unconverted and then take care of the bad guys when they convert back.

MB can save your hide.

I would look at wearing bramble and edge bow for massive thorns aura on your converted minions so they will rip through the enemy.

Kull

[wizAdept]

While spamming MB is pretty much essential to untwinked/ low budget trappers for this reason:Suppose your merc and shadow are outnumbered and getting stomped by the bad guys.It becomes less and less true the better built your trapper is. A high budget twinked out trapper should have absolutly no problems tearing through pvm with a convict merc, and mass mb conversion will slow down your killing time. You only need 1 monster converted to occupy whole groups since d2 monster ai is kinda dumb and all monsters will start facing the converted one. Having the majority of the group converted means they are not taking damage as quickly as they could be. For those few times you meet heavy LI groups that do not get pierced by infinity, the standard 2 points (more a pvp thing) in mb on a trapper is more than enough. No need to max it.

Personally I really fireblast as an additional attack on trappers. >.>

[StLife]

You'll have to look at all the aspects when comparing the two setups.
Like I said, I use my trapper for MFing so switching over to dual claws would mean that I'd have to sacrifice MF/FCR (not to mention other stuff as well) for extra stats that aren't that important for an MFsin.
Why is it so hard to understand that it's just not worth it?

[Arbedark]

You'll have to look at all the aspects when comparing the two setups.
Like I said, I use my trapper for MFing so switching over to dual claws would mean that I'd have to sacrifice MF/FCR (not to mention other stuff as well) for extra stats that aren't that important for an MFsin.
Why is it so hard to understand that it's just not worth it?

Because, I am stating that Dual Claws is better than HotO / Spirit. Which it is.

Your arguments are totally invalid.

You lose 0 mf, in fact you GAIN mf if you chose to socket ists in your claws.

65% FCR is ample for PvM, which is easily gainable with Dual claw. You also gain massive damage, something which is needed in boss fights with a trapsin.

And this "other stuff" is a fabrication. As I have previously stated, you gain much more with Dual Claw...res / PDR being an important one.

So sorry, but you ARE wrong.

[HCKull]

HotO / Spirit:
15% Block vs Melee only
75% Light, Cold, Poison Res
40% Fire res
6 to All skills
156 Str requirement
No socket options.
65-75% FCR


15% block agains melee ? - no, u can get 75%

+6 skills ? - no, u get only +5

[Arbedark]

15% block agains melee ? - no, u can get 75%

+6 skills ? - no, u get only +5

SOMG! Typo...Yes,m of course +5 All skills.

And if you are stupid enough to get max block with Spirit then I dont think you should be playing this game...

[StLife]

I already have max res with hoto/spirit.
And how much %PDR do you gain with dual claws? About 1% from Fade...

With dual claws I'd have to make up for the FCR loss with other gear, which would result in me losing MF.
So YOU are WRONG when you say that dual claws is the best setup for every trapsin.

[HappyAssassin]

Why are you MFing with a trapper in the first place?

Yeah, Weapon/Shield may be the best option for an MF trapper, but it's clearly not the best option in terms of effectiveness, its the best option in terms of maintaining MF. Other characters are better MFers anyway. If you want a STRONG trapper, you go Claw/Claw.

[StLife]

Why are you MFing with a trapper in the first place?

Why is that relevant? I happen to like trapsins, ok?...

Yeah, Weapon/Shield may be the best option for an MF trapper, but it's clearly not the best option in terms of effectiveness, its the best option in terms of maintaining MF. Other characters are better MFers anyway. If you want a STRONG trapper, you go Claw/Claw.

That's the point. I'm not striving to be a "STRONG" trapper.

Other characters may be better MFers, but that's not what we're discussing here.

[LilyJones]

Why are you MFing with a trapper in the first place?
...
Other characters are better MFers anyway.

Diversity is something to be treasured, not questioned.

[Arbedark]

I already have max res with hoto/spirit.
And how much %PDR do you gain with dual claws? About 1% from Fade...

With dual claws I'd have to make up for the FCR loss with other gear, which would result in me losing MF.
So YOU are WRONG when you say that dual claws is the best setup for every trapsin.

Sorry, but you gain at least 10-15% PDR from fade.. not this 1% that you are touting.

I haven stated written facts why a Claw/Claw setup is better than HOTO/SPIRIT setup for mfing...

Up to this point all you have done is act like a little child and deny it. If you wish to argue please come up with some solid facts.

If you want to MF with a Trapsin, then TBH I wouldnt be using Claw/Claw either, BUT Claw/Claw IS better than Hoto/Spirit for the reasons stated above. If you don't believe this then you simply cannot read facts.

For the best MF Trapper setup, ofc neither Hoto/Spirit and Claw/Claw are great, but out of the 2 Claw/Claw is better.

So please. Don't try and prove someone who knows a LOT more than you about a subject wrong merely by denying it. Produce figures etc if you want to argue and I will prove how Claw/Claw is better for MFing...

[StLife]

Diversity is something to be treasured, not questioned.

I couldn't agree more.

[HappyAssassin]

Diversity is something to be treasured, not questioned.

Personnaly I regard MFers are mules. Just use which ever is most convientent + effective. I use lvl 6 assassins as mules because they has BoS. I use Hammerdins or Sorceresses as MFers because they are good at it. My interest is in PvP, and I honestly don't see the point in crafting an elaborate MF setup with high end gear.


Oh, and test the hard point theory please. Lemme know what you find out.

[FrozenSolid]

Whoa, waaay off topic...
Let's break this up boys, shall we? >_>

[HappyAssassin]

Word.

Btw, because sarcasm doesn't translate well into typed words, I'll rephrase that last line: You are wrong, it's not only hard points.