Skill planning

[Ax2Grind]

Alright, I've found a Barbarian on my ladder accounts which doesn't have any of its skill points spent at all, so I'm thinking of making one of those combination builds I talked about (the ones using half synergies for full-powered skills and full synergies for half-powered). These are the bulk of the points in the builds I can see:

Dual-wield: 16 points left
----Bash: 10
----Double Swing: 20
----Double Throw: 10
----Frenzy: 20
----Stun: 1
----Concentrate: 1
----Berserk: 10
----Leap: 1
----Leap Attack: 1
----Whirlwind: 20
Since finding out the changes to WW, I've thought about this ultimate two-fisted build. It has the versatility needed to survive hell and enough spare points not to strip main skills of much to get Masteries or Warcries.

Single-wield: 9 points left
----Bash: 20
----Stun: 10
----Concentrate: 10
----Berserk: 20
----Howl: 1
----Shout: 19
----Battle Orders: 20
----Battle Command: 1
This is probably the favorite, and not just because of BO. The ability to use base defense with Bash and knock back enemies, raise defense with Conc and not be interrupted, or drop it entirely with Zerk and bypass physical immunes/Iron Maiden makes it extremely versatile. Good as a PvM starter, since a lot of players rarely get to use Bash or Zerk.

Single- or dual-wield: 3 points left (no Berserk)
----Bash: 20
----Stun: 10
----Concentrate: 20
----Howl: 10
----Taunt: 10
----Battle Cry: 10
----Warcry: 20
----Shout: 1
----Battle Orders: 5
----Battle Command: 1
If this build had ten points into Berserk it could be considered a tank in the true sense, using Warcry, Stun and Concentrate. As is it can go either way with regard to killing style: stunner or cryer.

Single-wield: 56 points left (unfinished)
----Leap: 10
----Leap Attack: 20
----Whirlwind: 20
----Bash: 1
----Stun: 1
----Concentrate: 1
----Howl: 1
----Shout: ?
----Battle Orders: ?
----Battle Command: ?
I originally meant this to be a PKK or PvP starter, but haven't really finished it. It's probably better against monsters than other players, but could still knock some sense into a surprised hammerdin or boneslinger.

To re-iterate, these are the main setups. Variants can alter 20% (22) of their points, putting them elsewhere (like weapon masteries). On the whole, they're item independent, requiring the player to choose which skills they like best and which to scavenge for weapon mastery points once they fix themselves on end gear.

Please list the strengths and weaknesses of each, which you'd like to see made first, and how they can be made better - within the variant rules, if possible. Thanks.

[Halciet]

First rule of barbarians is that you must always, always max Battle Orders. Always.

Second rule of barbarians is that you do not max two combat skills, unless it is a special situation and the skills share a synergetic relationship. Thus, your first build is definitely out, as you're maxing three combat skills and missing BO. Don't max both Frenzy and Whirlwind; pick one or the other.

For PvP, you need normal leap, rather than leap attack. This is generally for BvC only.

You need a mastery. Crit chance alone is worth it, but the extra damage/accuracy is invaluable.

Bash is a fairly weak skill. For one, knockback is more irritating than useful. Secondly, the synergy with Conc is fairly weak, at only 5% damage/point invested. Even with some of the best gear/charms available, you're only looking at 700 or so extra damage.

-Hal

[Ax2Grind]

I'll revamp a few of these because of the duplicate Combat Skills, but I suppose I wasn't as clear as I should've been with the four Paladin builds I designed to go with each other. They were intended to be a party together, but still able to hold their own solo. With one Barbarian having maxed Battle Orders the rest don't need to put points into it, as duplicative skill listings for non-synergy purposes doesn't make sense.

The Leap/Leap Attack can be switched around for PvP as opposed to PvM, no problem, but certain skills can be stripped to attain a mastery easily. Bash, OTOH, is meant solely for a low-level skill? If all other skills gain as much or more damage and knockback gloves/Nef fills the only hole then I guess it can be done without. Personally, I've never have a problem with knockback with Frenzy: automatic hit recovery when contact is made and I'm back on top of them before they can attack again.

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Halciet]

Ah, I see, I see. I didn't realize you were trying to do a team set-up. In such a case, you don't have to go with BO on all of them, though the problem is that the ones that don't have 20 BO will have a very hard time trying to handle things solo. Similarly, the truth of the matter is that breaking out barb skills for barb teams don't work so well, since there really aren't that many places for barbs to put points as it is. i.e., it's pointless to invest in multiple attack skills, since 98% of the time you'll only be using one of them, making the others useless. Thus for attacking in general you're only using 40 points (skill and mastery), leaving 70 points open for pre-reqs and filler. Thus, you don't really have anything better to do with each barb than get BO/Shout :(

Now, not saying you can't make some team barbs, but you also need to consider that BO/Shout synergize each other, and so it's often important to put them both on the same character. Another barb could focus on Warcry, perhaps, using that and taunt/howl to keep things under control.

Just be careful, because you might run into a problem where one barb does all the damage, and the other is just support, and thus can't really stand on his own.

Good luck with it :)

-Hal

[Ax2Grind]

Using the same skill for 15 acts is more than boring, it's downright mind-numbing. It's fortunate (for everyone else, I suppose) Diablo 3 won't be like that, but as for now I'm getting tired of making 10-12 characters of each class every ladder season, so I wanted to eliminate the need by combining abilities. How does a Frenzier deal with physical immunes or Iron Maiden? Throwing is ideal since twin weapons are already being used, with Double Swing for mana burn and Whirlwind as the only dual-weapon form of that attack. If WW doesn't gain any advantages from the additional speed, or if the differences between one and two weapons are insignificant, then maybe it can be ditched, but it's a shame.

I already have a Warcry/Frenzier at CLvl43, but placed too many points into Increased Speed trying to make him a speed demon of old. I don't see a pure Warcry/Stunner being viable as it only has eight points left for wonders and nothing into a mastery, so I'll ditch that and rebuild. Only thing left is Warcry/Berserk if the second build isn't good enough, after which a maxed mastery leaves 15 points to spread around. Don't know if that's good enough for wonders and higher Battle Orders, but I'll look into it.

[Ax2Grind]

Leap Attack/Concentrate:
----Bash: 2
----Stun: 1
----Concentrate: 20
----Berserk: 10
----Leap: 10
----Leap Attack: 20
----Sword/Mace/Axe/Spear Mastery: 20
----Increased Stamina: 1
----Increased Speed: 1
----Iron Skin: 1
----Natural Resistance: 1
----Howl: 1
----Taunt: 1
----Battle Cry: 1
----Warcry: 1
----Shout: 1
----Battle Orders: 14
----Battle Command: 1
----Find Potion: 1
----Find Item: 1
----Grim Ward: 1
Full powered Conc and LA with exactly half their synergies, a single weapon mastery and every one-point wonder. I agree removing GW and a few others would allow a higher BO, but it's a choice depending on play style. LA can be used on switch with a two-hander to close distance and Conc with the one-hander and shield - that's why I don't list Polearm Mastery. I also don't advise Spear Mastery, since this build is strong enough without a ranged attack, you don't get any throwing bonuses and javelins don't do that much damage in melee - you'd have to two-hand it almost all the time.

This is two Combat Skills, against your advice, but with only half synergies for Conc it left plenty of extra points and rarely do the thirty points for Leap/Attack fit anywhere else, especially as well as they do in this concept.