View Full Version : I got an idea for make gold having a value
BabyLink
07-08-2006, 21:40
I was thinking of frosty's gambled maras, hrs, duped stuff, gambling, gold. All of this while i was rushed. I had the idea of make runes gamblables. It would be a rune with no drawing, it would cost about 40-50k and it could be anything beside el and zod, zod being pretty rare, of course. So it would make gold having a value and maybe it will decrease the amazing number of duped hrs
I was thinking of frosty's gambled maras, hrs, duped stuff, gambling, gold. All of this while i was rushed. I had the idea of make runes gamblables. It would be a rune with no drawing, it would cost about 40-50k and it could be anything beside el and zod, zod being pretty rare, of course. So it would make gold having a value and maybe it will decrease the amazing number of duped hrs
Being able to walk right up to a shopkeeper and gamble a rune might be a little too unbalancing, since players are already able to upgrade existing runes when they get 3 of a kind (plus gems when applicable)...
On one hand, if players lost the ability to upgrade runes, gamble-able runes might not be a bad idea; it would certainly give gold more value, but I can't help but feel it makes obtaining runes a little -too- easy.
On the other hand, if runes turned up as an infrequent (rare) alternative to gamble'd rings or amulets, I don't think anyone would complain. Head over to the shopkeep, gamble away on a few rings and amulets, and if you're lucky, one of them will turn out to be a rune instead--with the normal rune odds applied.
On the other hand, if runes turned up as an infrequent (rare) alternative to gamble'd rings or amulets, I don't think anyone would complain. Head over to the shopkeep, gamble away on a few rings and amulets, and if you're lucky, one of them will turn out to be a rune instead--with the normal rune odds applied.
That would be pretty cool.
That would be pretty cool.
I've made this suggestion before, in response to other threads. I suggested that it be a standard thing you can gamble, have it set up with a scaling cost (like most gambles, the only things that don't are rings and amulets) - when you're level 90 +, it should cost over 100,000 gold per rune, because you have a chance at getting even zods. However, have it set up so that the rune rarity is set up as follows :
El is 3x as common as Eld
Eld is 3x as common as Tir
Tir is 3x as common as Nef
Continue this, until the point where crafting an upgraded rune requires only two, then switch to follow that. So -
Pul is 2x as common as Um
Um is 2x as common as Mal
etc, etc, etc.
This means that for every 14.2 El runes you gamble, you get a zod - on average, of course. An estimate off the top of my head suggests that with this sytem, your typical rune gambled would be around amn or lower. That seems reasonable to me. Mid runes (hel through pul) would be quite rare, and anything from Um and up would be very, very rare - but then, it's still just gold.
This means that for every 14.2 El runes you gamble, you get a zod - on average, of course.
That'd be 142,000 gold for a level 90 character -- on average, of course. That's peanuts, and doesn't give GOLD a value; if anything, it simply decreases the value of those higher runes by making them available to more casual players. (Yes, I realize that you'd have to gamble enough times to get 'El' 14 times, which isn't 100%, but you understand what I'm getting at here.)
I don't think putting a rune of any sort in the shop is a good idea; it unbalances things too much. Rings and amulets are fine for gambling, because of the numerous properties which can be applied--you can get magical, rare, and depending on your patch, possibly even set or unique rings (good luck with those odds, though). With runes, there's no accounting for that; they're a fixed object. An El found in Normal Tamoe Highland is just as good as an El found in Hell Halls of Pain. Runes as a base are too valuable to warrant easy access in the store, even if you assign them rediculously weighted-to-the-low-end odds.
A player with good gold-find and a desire for high runes could step into the rune-store, gamble away a few million, and cube up to what they need... this is a terrible idea.
That'd be 142,000 gold for a level 90 character -- on average, of course. That's peanuts, and doesn't give GOLD a value; if anything, it simply decreases the value of those higher runes by making them available to more casual players. (Yes, I realize that you'd have to gamble enough times to get 'El' 14 times, which isn't 100%, but you understand what I'm getting at here.)
I don't think putting a rune of any sort in the shop is a good idea; it unbalances things too much. Rings and amulets are fine for gambling, because of the numerous properties which can be applied--you can get magical, rare, and depending on your patch, possibly even set or unique rings (good luck with those odds, though). With runes, there's no accounting for that; they're a fixed object. An El found in Normal Tamoe Highland is just as good as an El found in Hell Halls of Pain. Runes as a base are too valuable to warrant easy access in the store, even if you assign them rediculously weighted-to-the-low-end odds.
A player with good gold-find and a desire for high runes could step into the rune-store, gamble away a few million, and cube up to what they need... this is a terrible idea.
My mistake. I meant that you would gamble 14.2 BILLION Els for every one Zod you got.
Thoridian
09-08-2006, 02:33
My mistake. I meant that you would gamble 14.2 BILLION Els for every one Zod you got.
ROFL, nice mistake xD
My mistake. I meant that you would gamble 14.2 BILLION Els for every one Zod you got.
Haha, wow, that's a bit more realistic odds. :) Even though that's a much better curve, I still think giving runes out so often is a bad idea.
Look at it this way: Half the reason the Countess is so popular is because she "always" drops a rune. She is a reliable, albeit slow, way to cube up to low-mid runes that you desire for various purposes. If we suddenly let players snag runes as often as they want in the shops, we completely alienate a part of the game. Seeing as how most of Diablo II is already reduced to a few select 'runs,' making one of these pathways trivial is a horrible idea.
If you're really desperate to make runes gamble-able, why not make a new drop by some rarely-visited monster (Say, the bottom of the Maggot Lair, or some monster randomly spawning in the Plains of Despair or City of the Damned) who drops an item which can be exchanged for a single rune-gamble?
That wouldn't help increase the value of gold, but it would be a thousand times better than just putting a blank rune in the shops. :P
On the other hand, if gambling in general had an option to "Double the cost--double the risk," increasing the odds of getting an exceptional/elite item ever so slightly... I don't see anyone complaining. :)
ROFL, nice mistake xD
Haha, I thought so. :tongue:
::Edit:: Err... it would still make more sense to do countess runs than anything else, because you're looking at.. 1,420,000,000,000,000 gold or something ridiculous like that to get a Zod.
Err... it would still make more sense to do countess runs than anything else, because you're looking at.. 1,420,000,000,000,000 gold or something ridiculous like that to get a Zod.
Even on Hell, the Countess can never drop a Zod... she can only go up to something like Vex, though the odds on that drop are no better than any other monster who can also drop Vex. The "guaranteed" rune is considerably lower... but that's an aside.
The point I'm trying to make is that this idea makes the rate at which a player can obtain runes TOO HIGH.
As DiabloII exists at this point in time, the 'fastest' way to get runes is to find a map with the Tower very near the way point, and descend to floor5 and kill the Countess. The logic behind this is that the Countess 'always' drops a rune, and thus a player can get a rune every 2 minutes or so.
If runes are suddenly a gamble-able object, regardless of price, players can suddenly obtain them MUCH FASTER. A high-level player with a maxed stash can run up to the shopkeep in town and purchase X number of runes in a few seconds. Seconds!
With the ability to purchase runes quickly, gold provided, the Countess suddenly looks much -less- appealing. Why not go run the Pit or the Worldstone Keep a few times? The loot drops are better, the gold drops are higher, and the experience is greater. Plus, once the run is complete, and all the 'useless' items are sold, the excess gold goes to the purchase of one or more runes. Tell me again how it's still better to run the Countess. :P
Evrae Altana
10-08-2006, 02:26
Even on Hell, the Countess can never drop a Zod... she can only go up to something like VexCountess can drop up to Ist with her rune drop, and up to Lo with her regular drop.
RequiemDeath
10-08-2006, 03:07
I personally think that it would be a horible idea to have this ability on ladder... You can already up runes there, so working your way up to a Zod really isn't all that hard... However, on non-ladder, you can only HOPE for a Zod to pop out of a random monster's butt... The odds are stacked against you from the start there... Thus, I think it would be a good idea to have runes be a gambleable (is that even a word?) item... But only on non-ladder... Otherwise, I'd love to have runes upgradable to a Zod on non-ladder... But, being able to gamble them would be nice too... The only thing is, to keep the game in balance, we could only have one or the other... Having both options would make high runes far too avalible...
*Requiem_Death
I personally think that it would be a horible idea to have this ability on ladder... You can already up runes there, so working your way up to a Zod really isn't all that hard... However, on non-ladder, you can only HOPE for a Zod to pop out of a random monster's butt... The odds are stacked against you from the start there... Thus, I think it would be a good idea to have runes be a gambleable (is that even a word?) item... But only on non-ladder... Otherwise, I'd love to have runes upgradable to a Zod on non-ladder... But, being able to gamble them would be nice too... The only thing is, to keep the game in balance, we could only have one or the other... Having both options would make high runes far too avalible...
*Requiem_Death
Too available? As compared to what, dupes?
Now, let's see. These numbers are the number of particular runes that you would have to cube up, to get a single zod.
El - 11,852,768,825,496
Eld - 3,950,922,941,832
Tir - 1,316,974,313,944
Nef - 438,958,104,648
Eth - 146,319,368,216
Ith - 48,773,123,072
Tal - 19,591,041,024
Ral - 6,530,347,008
Ort - 2,176,782,336
Thul - 725,594,112
Amn - 241,864,704
Sol - 80,621,568
Shael - 26,873,856
Dol - 8,957,952
Hel - 2,985,984
Io - 995,328
Lum - 331,776
Ko - 110,592
Fal - 36,864
Lem - 12,288
Pul - 4,096
Um - 2,048
Mal - 1,024
Ist - 512
Gul - 256
Vex - 128
Ohm - 64
Lo - 32
Sur - 16
Ber - 8
Jah - 4
Cham - 2
Zod - 1
I may actually be a bit off from Tal up, since I was multiplying in my head - I only have a ten digit calculator. I think I did go wrong, actually... kind of annoying. However, looking at that... my suggestion would make decent runes too RARE compared to everything else. Your average rune-gamble, for 100,000 gold, would be an El. In fact, I'd estimate 60% or better of the runes you gambled would be El's. That... would be a little over the top. And I definately think I did something wrong here, since I got a number in the trillions. Meh, annoying - don't quote that chart, I believe it's wrong. :p But it gives a vague idea of what I was thinking... and, why it wouldn't work. You'd have approximately a one in a billion chance of getting even a Pul. >.<
RequiemDeath
10-08-2006, 04:44
There is far too many variables for that to be the case... See, I find Sol and Dol nearly every day... Uping those to a pul is easy, and from there, it really isn't more than a month before a really useable high rune is cubed... Like an Ohm or something... Starting from El would be stupid in the first place... But how often do we really use a Zod anyway? Good ethereal items like a HoZ or something of the sort, or for BotD... Beyond that, Vex, Jah, Ber, etc. is where it is at... Thus, I adhere to my statement... One or the other, not both...
*Requiem_Death
There is far too many variables for that to be the case... See, I find Sol and Dol nearly every day... Uping those to a pul is easy ...
*snipped*
O RLY?
Did you know it takes 2187 Dols to make a Pul? 139,968 dols to make an Ohm. If you're playing enough to get that many dols in a month, you deserve your own padded room AND the Ohm you've earned.
Thus, I adhere to my statement... One or the other, not both...
*Requiem_Death
And I still say that with the dupes gone entirely, that finding and gambling together will be a fine system, as long as it's balanced properly. I'm not saying that if you go spend a million gold you'll get a HR. I'm saying that if you spend a million gold, you might get a Ral or two. Somewhere in the hundred millions you might have a decent chance at getting Pul. It'd still take billions (many several of them) to have any reasonable statistical chance for a HR.
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