Is a singer pvp worth it in classic?

[ShadHoe]

I was looking around at the war cry/singer barb guides in the barbarian LoD section and was trying to find gear to make a classic singer, would a classic war cry barb even be effective in pvp?

[goomba]

I was under the distinct impression that they're not even effective as pvm.

rather, one of those "fun builds" that gets turned into a permed mule...

[ShadHoe]

meh, i wont waste my time then.

[Akukami]

Try not to associate LOD guides w/ Classic. Most of the time, they're just not going to work due to the item differences and availability.

- Akukami

[WarlockCC]

I am still inclined to make a PvM singer though, if I really run out of other projects. It is a shame the singer would require 2 of my SoJs(I don't have a lot of those) and a trainload of manapotions to keep the sock filled.
Damagewise I don't think you can't do much in Hell CS other then stun.

[fledgeling]

My level 50 singer does around 220-250damage with 2 shards (level 10warcry)
The stun duration is nice and he can slowly clear nightmare cs (it would require a lot of pots and a lot of time, it's like 10 attacks to kill a venom lord).

As for duelling I still lack 10fcr, but even with it his only chance would be stunning some poor player with 0fhr :)
(who would be eating with one hand and holding the cellphone with another?)

he can fight versus BAD level 30 characters though

[Rawly]

Damagewise I don't think you can't do much in Hell CS other then stun.

Beats yours standard CS BO/shout follow everyone around type of baba. Especially if you only play him to be on the ladder.

[Fearlessone]

would require 2 of my SoJs(I don't have a lot of those) and a trainload of manapotions to keep the sock filled....Damagewise I don't think you can't do much in Hell CS other then stun.
This is wrong, shame on u warlock. U dont need 2 soj's, 0-1 are good. And u can max warcry and still manage to get about a lvl 20-22 bo, with 2 bo stix. With another barbs even better bo can fetch u around 1400 mana, and thats a helluva buttload of mana!!!, but dont expect to find the gear, including an soj in the first few weeks of the ladder, it takes time to build this char.

Damage: will be 800-1000 depending on the +skills u get. At 3 casts/sec, thats a good bit of dmg. With the amp curse or decrep from a necro, u will be near godly in hell cs. Otherwise, expect to kill oblivions, abyss and doom knights, storm casters, and grot and maggot young quickly, but slow kill on grots, venom lords and most bosses.

Pvp: can be effective against sorc, at least u will keep them on the move away from u, because ur AOE range is fairly large. If a necro bonewalls himself in and IM's u and expects a ww, surprise! Leap in and warcry him, he will have a hard time casting bonespirits, but may recast his bone armor which can be quite high. U will lose to all ww barbs and hammerdins and nearly all foh'ers. Zons are also difficult. So I would say the warcrier is not a good pvp build.

[WarlockCC]

Personally, if I make a char, I want to make him right, and for a singer, that requires 2 SoJs imho.

With +4 skills and all synergies maxed (a feat one cannot complete until level 91 if level 20 BO is desired) you will be doing 89x damage at the cost of 29 mana.
+4 skills as in tarn, silks(100 str) and a +2 amu.
Now, presuming the values I plucked from arreat also apply to classic, a Venom Lord has 9555-15167 life in a single player game. That is 11 to 17 cries. At 3 cast per sec, you will stand around getting rid of the Venom Lord for almost 4 seconds while the Oblivion Knights nearby have free potshots at you.
I think you need those SoJs to get a descent amount of mana, otherwise you'll end up going all-energy, which I hear is not a good idea. :)

But, I have not made one yet, so I cannot judge. What level is your crier at the moment, Fearlessone ?

Note that if I where to make one I would make him on NL.

[Beltyn]

An idea i tried a while ago is mixed singer/frenzy, the stun leaves everything easy meat.

Obviously not an idea for CS, but River maybe.

[fledgeling]

you should use a +3 perfect saphire mask in my opinion
Im not sure what is better - the +1 skills from silk, or 25% mana regeneration from heavenly garb

[dlee]

for builds like that you can try making one in single player to see dammnage/effectiveness. its pretty convienient and you dont end up wasting hours leveling

[Creon]

Wasting? Leveling inferior builds is half the fun!

[Fearlessone]

... presuming the values I plucked from arreat also apply to classic, a Venom Lord has 9555-15167 life in a single player game. That is 11 to 17 cries. ...I think you need those SoJs to get a descent amount of mana, otherwise you'll end up going all-energy, which I hear is not a good idea. :)...But, I have not made one yet, so I cannot judge. What level is your crier at the moment, Fearlessone ?
My crier is lvl 91, this is the 2nd one I have built. So he is a finished barb, they play on the ladder. If u play in a nearly full game, the venom's life is huge, and since u dont have any poison dmg here, reheal is a major prob for most monsters late in the game. So u have to max dmg, mine is like 950 now, and i try to play with amping or decrep'ing necros for the dmg boost. A static sorc is good also, but those are even rarer these days than cursing necros!

When u get amp, it brings the physical resistance of the avg monster from about 40% to -60%, thats a drop of 100%, and is about 2.5x as much dmg, not twice. Also, considering reheal, u are doing dmg about 3x faster. So instead of bringing down most members of a mob in 20-40 seconds, its more like 7-15 seconds, and this brings down almost all of them, except stone skin. A very good pally can kill them in about 2/3 of that time, so if u have the right team, this is a top player, cuz he can kill, stun, and bo, and howl too, taunt, leap, etc...

I use only one soj, but could use 2 if i had a bit more resists like triple resist items.

[WarlockCC]

Ok, so there is no need to go for max +skills. So how much, if any, damage do you take ? Do you get frequent drinker miles with your life potion subscription or can you do a CS(with others) with a single belt ?
I have allways favored character types which where not very potion dependent.
What kind or items are you wearing then, if you mind my asking ?

[fledgeling]

Im testing nightsmoke at the momemnt
for the 50% damage goes to mana

[WarlockCC]

You'll need to get hit continually for that to work. Better try a Lenny in stead.
3 sock PS helm, Civerbs(Or Arcana's) amulet, Heavenly Garb, Magefists, Manald, Lennymo sash and another Manald should get you a descent amount of mana regenerate.
Did anybody ever try if CB carries over to the singer's attacks ?

[fledgeling]

I think that a 114mana mask +frostburns is better, I use this set up
The mana regen with dual manalds + lenyo (spelling?) belt + the spire of lazarus is still slow on a sorcerress

maybe you put points into mana on the barb tho? I went pure vitality (only 60str and 51dex)

[WarlockCC]

You definately need to put some points into energy, yes.
I think 50/50 was advised somewhere.

Downside is offcourse that you get only 1 mana for each point in energy, while you get 4 points of life for each point in vitality.
So it is better to get your mana from gear.
When comparing gems for your helm, perfect Ametheist would get you 10 str, which would save you 10 statpoints. If you invest those 10 statpoints into vit, you get 40 life from it, which is 2 more then you would get from a perfect ruby (38). Offcourse this doesn't apply to other classes, so most people sock the 'good' helms with a ruby so they can use it on other classes then a barb.
Same goes for dex btw.
Oh well, it's a trade-off and a personal choice.

[Zodijackyl]

This is wrong, shame on u warlock. U dont need 2 soj's, 0-1 are good. And u can max warcry and still manage to get about a lvl 20-22 bo, with 2 bo stix. With another barbs even better bo can fetch u around 1400 mana, and thats a helluva buttload of mana!!!, but dont expect to find the gear, including an soj in the first few weeks of the ladder, it takes time to build this char.

u dun evn need 2 type hole wrds or spel tehm rite 2!!!11!11!eleven!!

Damage: will be 800-1000 depending on the +skills u get. At 3 casts/sec, thats a good bit of dmg. With the amp curse or decrep from a necro, u will be near godly in hell cs. Otherwise, expect to kill oblivions, abyss and doom knights, storm casters, and grot and maggot young quickly, but slow kill on grots, venom lords and most bosses.

Pvp: can be effective against sorc, at least u will keep them on the move away from u, because ur AOE range is fairly large. If a necro bonewalls himself in and IM's u and expects a ww, surprise! Leap in and warcry him, he will have a hard time casting bonespirits, but may recast his bone armor which can be quite high. U will lose to all ww barbs and hammerdins and nearly all foh'ers. Zons are also difficult. So I would say the warcrier is not a good pvp build.

This build can do nothing PvP on classic. If a nec IM's you then sees you're a warcry barb, then he'll laugh at you for a full five minutes, then kill you while he still has 85% of his life left. And there's no way you can beat any decent sorc with it either, the sorc will just throw a few attacks your way if they even bother to. A leap barb is more effective.

[Fearlessone]

This build can do nothing PvP on classic. If a nec IM's you then sees you're a warcry barb, then he'll laugh at you for a full five minutes, then kill you while he still has 85% of his life left. And there's no way you can beat any decent sorc with it either, the sorc will just throw a few attacks your way if they even bother to.
Not true. I've beaten a few hostile necros with it, not regular duelers, but pk necros. The high fcr keeps them substantially stunned, but like I said: they can recast their bonearmor and just a few bonespirits can be deadly to u, so it might matter if they have an fhr on them. The object in a hostile (again pk, not dueling) situation is to scare away the pk'er. If u leap inside their bonewalls or bprison and start casting at 3x a second, it often works.

As for sorcies. And this relates to pk situations, they just cant kill a good barb, or almost any char for that matter. Sorcies are easy to have all their silly attacks nullified, just stock up on hawkmail, stacked cold res items, thawing pots, hotspurs. I know that taking pots isnt kosher in dueling, but i get hostile pk sorc every day trying to disrupt the games I play, and if I can turn them into nothing more than mosquitoes, then I do it. If a hostile sorc tele's in range of warcry, she will take substantial dmg very quickly. It keeps her on the move, away from u, into the range of some other ally's attacks, and u can take healing pots to recover, cuz she is the aggressor and u can do what u plz. An arrogant sorc who gets within range of ur warcry is either a dead sorc or one limping(as in tele'ing) away.

Pure pvp situations: u dont want to make a singer for dueling only.

Fledgeling: Nightsmoke won't work. What kind of physical dmg can u possible get while using warcry? Maybe from champs/bosses or archers or a monster with a very long polearm or big, long arms, like an Urdar. The mana answer is to get some good bo, tons and tons of +mana items and at least 2 columns of mana in belt + lots more in your inventory, use the left click to pop them fast into ur inventory, and mana regen. I haven't tested lemnyo, it never drops for me, ever. Having a steady flow of mana from gulping all those pots in a four row belt is a good bet.

[Akukami]

If what you say is true, then where are all the PvP Singer Barbs....

- Akukami

[Creon]

If what you say is true, then where are all the PvP Singer Barbs....

- Akukami
Pure pvp situations: u dont want to make a singer for dueling only.
He didn't exactly say they were stellar for PvP, just good at defending themselves from PKs while benefiting a group more than a Whirlwind Barb in CS.

[Fearlessone]

Ok, so there is no need to go for max +skills. So how much, if any, damage do you take ? Do you get frequent drinker miles with your life potion subscription or can you do a CS(with others) with a single belt ?
I have allways favored character types which where not very potion dependent.
What kind or items are you wearing then, if you mind my asking ?

I'm resurrecting this thread cuz there is another thread on the same topic up now, and I did a searches using warcry and singer and got NO results. Maybe something is wrong with the search function. There have been 2-3 decent threads about warcry since this forum started. I missed answering this question, so i gonna answer it now!

Damage taken: none from any close monsters, except bosses and champs (warcry stuns them only 20% of the time). Lag issues or polearm monsters, such as the zealots and cows seem to get thru the range, sometimes. Ranged damage is the biggie: oblivion knights, archers, potion throwers in act2 deserts. This can be considerable, but nothing that a super healing pot cant take of, or a rejuv.

Items: Frostburns (for the mana), psapphire or pskull helm (mana or mana regen), 2 shards (mana, resists and godly fcr), goldskin (cuz no shield, and need resists, silks if i could get triple resist items), 30%frw boots with hitrecovery, +mana, and a good resist, a good 4 row dual resists belt, an soj and a good rare ring with resists, 10% fcr, and +59 mana, +2 barb ammy with a good resist and near max mana.

The big key is getting to play with a necro friend who liberally uses decrep or amp curse. As i've stated: u will then kill about 2/3 as fast as any hammerdin. This is faster than any ww barb and is much safer at the endgame - the chaos sanct.

With a good bo, usually some other barbs, i can get 1400 mana. I've heard of chars with more mana, but they are usually trading something off, one guy told me he had 1600 mana, but he uses only one shard and kills poorly.