View Full Version : How important is FHR really??
SPIDERfrank
01-08-2006, 05:46
Like the title says, how important is it? I can safely meet the 42% breakpoint, but does it make a huge difference if I get to the 86% breakpoint? This druid is pretty much only for PvM. I'm just comparing it in importance to resists.
For me it comes down to either having the 86% breakpoint with 61 all resists in hell, or having the 42% breakpoint with well over 75% all resists.
Like the title says, how important is it? I can safely meet the 42% breakpoint, but does it make a huge difference if I get to the 86% breakpoint? This druid is pretty much only for PvM. I'm just comparing it in importance to resists.
For me it comes down to either having the 86% breakpoint with 61 all resists in hell, or having the 42% breakpoint with well over 75% all resists.
Depends on a lot of different things. How fast is your attack? How much life do you have? Do you have any PDR/MDR or DR%? Wolf or Bear? Do you use Shockwave heavily? Do you use Rabies heavily?
If you are not in sustained melee (such as a Rabid Wolf), then FHR is less important. If you have a slower attack, then FHR is less important. If you keep monsters stunned at all times, then FHR is less important. If you have a ton of life, PDR, MDR, or DR%, then FHR is less important. If you're a Wolf instead of a Bear, then FHR is less important.
Generally, I'd prefer the extra 14% resists to the extra frame of hit recovery. Remember, too- the higher your resists get, the more useful each extra % of resists becomes. Going from 0% resists to 1% resists only cuts the damage you receive by 1%... but going from 90% resists to 91% resists cuts it by 10%.
SPIDERfrank
01-08-2006, 06:35
Depends on a lot of different things. How fast is your attack? How much life do you have? Do you have any PDR/MDR or DR%? Wolf or Bear? Do you use Shockwave heavily? Do you use Rabies heavily?
If you are not in sustained melee (such as a Rabid Wolf), then FHR is less important. If you have a slower attack, then FHR is less important. If you keep monsters stunned at all times, then FHR is less important. If you have a ton of life, PDR, MDR, or DR%, then FHR is less important. If you're a Wolf instead of a Bear, then FHR is less important.
Generally, I'd prefer the extra 14% resists to the extra frame of hit recovery. Remember, too- the higher your resists get, the more useful each extra % of resists becomes. Going from 0% resists to 1% resists only cuts the damage you receive by 1%... but going from 90% resists to 91% resists cuts it by 10%.
I'm a wolf using fury as a main attack, no rabies or shockwave. i have an ebotd gpa. I have about 5k life in wolf form with oak sage. only dr% i have is 15% from verdungos and 7 dr from fortitude.
hope that helps. so it looks like the resists is more worth it??
xpumafangx
01-08-2006, 06:59
As long as you hit the 42% break point. Your resists should matter. The only time I have seen 86% needed is when I fight smite.
Darksteel
01-08-2006, 08:06
For PvM, FHR really isn't all too necessary. For PvP... now that's completely different
SirGalahad
01-08-2006, 11:12
What about my Fire Claws Druid? I only have about %15 FHR right now with two charms. How much should I have? Are charms the best way to get it?
What about my Fire Claws Druid? I only have about %15 FHR right now with two charms. How much should I have? Are charms the best way to get it?
Wolf or bear? It makes a HUGE difference.
Wolves have a natural 7 frame hit recovery. Bears have a natural 13 frame hit recovery. If you're a Bear, you're going to want to load on as much FHR as you can get your grubby paws on. If you're a Wolf, then 20% or 42% is more than sufficient.
claniraqonetwothree
02-08-2006, 03:13
If you are good at dodging attacks, you can get along with 0% FHR.
You aren't that good. Nobody is.
Now stack your FHR like nuts.
(unless you are a hunger or zeal druid, since uninteruptable attacks are unaffected by FHR; fury IS interuptable, and you should aim for the 82% breakpoint. This gives you an amazing 3 frame FHR.)
If you are good at dodging attacks, you can get along with 0% FHR.
You aren't that good. Nobody is.
Now stack your FHR like nuts.
(unless you are a hunger or zeal druid, since uninteruptable attacks are unaffected by FHR; fury IS interuptable, and you should aim for the 82% breakpoint. This gives you an amazing 3 frame FHR.)
As of 1.1x, Hunger is interruptable.
claniraqonetwothree
02-08-2006, 06:34
As of 1.1x, Hunger is interruptable.
not really
it can't be interupted by FHR, but it CAN be interupted by FBR
so if you have 0% blocking, its uninteruptable.
Generally, I'd prefer the extra 14% resists to the extra frame of hit recovery. Remember, too- the higher your resists get, the more useful each extra % of resists becomes. Going from 0% resists to 1% resists only cuts the damage you receive by 1%... but going from 90% resists to 91% resists cuts it by 10%.
1% from 1000 is 10
how 90->91 can be 10times more?
:afro:
1% from 1000 is 10
how 90->91 can be 10times more?
:afro:
Example #1:
Say you're taking 1000 fire damage per second, and you have 0% resists. The end result is 1000 damage per second.
Now let's say you're taking 1000 fire damage per second, and you have 5% resists. The end result is 950 damage per second.
950 is 95% of 1,000, so going from 0% resists to 5% resists cut the damage you were taking by 5%.
Example #2:
Say you're taking 1000 fire damage per second and you have 90% resists. The end result is 100 damage per second.
Now let's say you're taking 1000 fire damage per second, and you have 95% resists. The end result is 50 damage per second.
50 is 50% of 100, so therefore going from 90% resists to 95% resists cut the damage you were taking by 50%.
Now, in both examples, the damage you received was only reduced by 50 with 5% extra resist, but the damage you received as a percentage of the whole was DRASTICALLY increased by the presence of more resists. Let's say that this 1,000 fire damage per second was in the form of an Inferno from a megademon. Adding 5% resist when you have 0% will let you stand in that megademon inferno for 5.3% longer. Adding 5% resist when you have 90% will let you stand in that megademon inferno for TWICE AS LONG.
Two megademon infernos @ 95% resist fire will deal just as much damage as one megademon inferno @ 90% resist fire, so therefore adding 5% resist fire when you're at 90% is effectively doubling your fire resistance. I know, I know, it doesn't seem to make sense, but that's how it works.
It makes a lot more sense if you look at how much fire damage is UNRESISTED. At 90% resist fire, then that means 10% of the fire damage is unresisted. At 95% resist fire, only 5% is unresisted. Since 10% is twice as much as 5%, you take twice as much fire damage at 90% resist fire than you do at 95% resist fire.
Like I said, it doesn't make sense right at first, but it's true. If you don't believe me, take a character into a Gloam infested Hell WSK with 0% lightning resist, and then take one in with 50% lightning resist. After that, take a character in with 75% lightning resist, and then again with 95% lightning resist. You'll see that going from 75% to 95% makes a much bigger difference in survivability than going from 0% to 50%, even though there's a much bigger absolute resist difference between 0 and 50 than there is between 75 and 95.
SirGalahad
02-08-2006, 23:50
If you are good at dodging attacks, you can get along with 0% FHR.
You aren't that good. Nobody is.
Now stack your FHR like nuts.
(unless you are a hunger or zeal druid, since uninteruptable attacks are unaffected by FHR; fury IS interuptable, and you should aim for the 82% breakpoint. This gives you an amazing 3 frame FHR.)
82% WoW this is going to be a bit harder than I thought. As of now I sometimes roll along as a Fire caster Druid (+3 elemental skills Hammer and plus skills shield) before switching (6 Sheal phase blade and Stormshield) to take on the Boss. %82 is going to be hard to reach. I think I might go the other route and forego the shield for a 2 handed weapon.
Thanks for the reply.
(I thought Fire Claws was a bear only skilll....)
82% WoW this is going to be a bit harder than I thought. As of now I sometimes roll along as a Fire caster Druid (+3 elemental skills Hammer and plus skills shield) before switching (6 Sheal phase blade and Stormshield) to take on the Boss. %82 is going to be hard to reach. I think I might go the other route and forego the shield for a 2 handed weapon.
Thanks for the reply.
(I thought Fire Claws was a bear only skilll....)
82% isn't necessary at all. You can easily get by with a 4-frame hit recovery without noticing the difference.
Also, Fire Claws and Hunger are available to both Wolves and Bears. The only bear-only skills are Shockwave and Maul (unlike the Wolf, who gets Feral Rage, Rabies, and Fury all to himself).
Feetstench
03-08-2006, 00:19
(unless you are a hunger or zeal druid, since uninteruptable attacks are unaffected by FHR; fury IS interuptable, and you should aim for the 82% breakpoint. This gives you an amazing 3 frame FHR.)
Ok, so it IS true that Zeal is uninterruptable? Building my first Zealot, thought it just might be a glitch that Baals cold wave wasan't thumping me back. :shocked:
If I had thought to ask this I wold have dumped the FHR Belt for a Resist belt levels ago!:thumbsup:
Nice avatar friend Galahad.
82% WoW this is going to be a bit harder than I thought. As of now I sometimes roll along as a Fire caster Druid (+3 elemental skills Hammer and plus skills shield) before switching (6 Sheal phase blade and Stormshield) to take on the Boss. %82 is going to be hard to reach. I think I might go the other route and forego the shield for a 2 handed weapon.
Thanks for the reply.
(I thought Fire Claws was a bear only skilll....)
It does make sense... never looked at it that way though. I just thought "90% res means 90% less dam from source a, and 95% res means 95% less dam from source a. I'll go for 95%."
Example #1:
Say you're taking 1000 fire damage per second, and you have 0% resists. The end result is 1000 damage per second.
Now let's say you're taking 1000 fire damage per second, and you have 5% resists. The end result is 950 damage per second.
950 is 95% of 1,000, so going from 0% resists to 5% resists cut the damage you were taking by 5%.
Example #2:
Say you're taking 1000 fire damage per second and you have 90% resists. The end result is 100 damage per second.
Now let's say you're taking 1000 fire damage per second, and you have 95% resists. The end result is 50 damage per second.
50 is 50% of 100, so therefore going from 90% resists to 95% resists cut the damage you were taking by 50%.
Now, in both examples, the damage you received was only reduced by 50 with 5% extra resist, but the damage you received as a percentage of the whole was DRASTICALLY increased by the presence of more resists. Let's say that this 1,000 fire damage per second was in the form of an Inferno from a megademon. Adding 5% resist when you have 0% will let you stand in that megademon inferno for 5.3% longer. Adding 5% resist when you have 90% will let you stand in that megademon inferno for TWICE AS LONG.
Two megademon infernos @ 95% resist fire will deal just as much damage as one megademon inferno @ 90% resist fire, so therefore adding 5% resist fire when you're at 90% is effectively doubling your fire resistance. I know, I know, it doesn't seem to make sense, but that's how it works.
It makes a lot more sense if you look at how much fire damage is UNRESISTED. At 90% resist fire, then that means 10% of the fire damage is unresisted. At 95% resist fire, only 5% is unresisted. Since 10% is twice as much as 5%, you take twice as much fire damage at 90% resist fire than you do at 95% resist fire.
Like I said, it doesn't make sense right at first, but it's true. If you don't believe me, take a character into a Gloam infested Hell WSK with 0% lightning resist, and then take one in with 50% lightning resist. After that, take a character in with 75% lightning resist, and then again with 95% lightning resist. You'll see that going from 75% to 95% makes a much bigger difference in survivability than going from 0% to 50%, even though there's a much bigger absolute resist difference between 0 and 50 than there is between 75 and 95.
SirGalahad
03-08-2006, 22:35
82% isn't necessary at all. You can easily get by with a 4-frame hit recovery without noticing the difference.
Also, Fire Claws and Hunger are available to both Wolves and Bears. The only bear-only skills are Shockwave and Maul (unlike the Wolf, who gets Feral Rage, Rabies, and Fury all to himself).
Yep, I was wrong about that. you can use Fireclaws with a wolf. Should I have made this build with a Wolf? But then I would lose def. and life. I guess I would have to use both to compare. I wonder if anyone has a Fireclaws wolf?
SirGalahad
03-08-2006, 22:35
Nice avatar friend Galahad.
Thanks brother bear. They say that it was a hot day and that he was just trying to cool off... but that's just what they think.:wink3:
Just to clear up some confusion - I've seen in this thread some people mention 82 as a breakpoint for fhr, and others mentioned 86. I was under the impression it is 42, then 86. Is this correct?
Yep, I was wrong about that. you can use Fireclaws with a wolf. Should I have made this build with a Wolf? But then I would lose def. and life. I guess I would have to use both to compare. I wonder if anyone has a Fireclaws wolf?
Fireclaws Critters are usually Bears, since they attack faster with it naturally. I suppose you could go Wolf if you wanted. Not a whole lot of difference either way, except in secondary skills (Shockwave > Feral/Rabies/Fury IMO) and breakpoints (Wolf FHR and FBR breakpoints are *TONS* better than Bear).
Just to clear up some confusion - I've seen in this thread some people mention 82 as a breakpoint for fhr, and others mentioned 86. I was under the impression it is 42, then 86. Is this correct?
Yes, Wolves are 42 for a 4-frame Hit Recovery and 86 for a 3-frame Hit Recovery.
Bear breakpoints are totally different.
SirGalahad
04-08-2006, 12:23
Fireclaws Critters are usually Bears, since they attack faster with it naturally. I suppose you could go Wolf if you wanted. Not a whole lot of difference either way, except in secondary skills (Shockwave > Feral/Rabies/Fury IMO) and breakpoints (Wolf FHR and FBR breakpoints are *TONS* better than Bear).
Yes, Wolves are 42 for a 4-frame Hit Recovery and 86 for a 3-frame Hit Recovery.
Bear breakpoints are totally different.
Dude! It says 360 for a 4!! That's impossible!!! Gues I'd just better use my current stratagy of going as a weak fire druid until we meet the boss.
Dude! It says 360 for a 4!! That's impossible!!! Gues I'd just better use my current stratagy of going as a weak fire druid until we meet the boss.
Indeed. Bears are legendary for two things- their ABYSMAL block and recovery speeds, and their RIDICULOUS attack speeds. The Block/Recovery speeds are the slowest in the game (except for an Amazon wielding a non-piercing 1-handed weapon), and the attack speeds are without question the fastest in the game. Which is sort of like adding insult to injury- every time you go into Hit Recovery or every time you block, you lose more potential attacks than any other class, by a pretty sizeable margin.
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