View Full Version : The Vita Rabies/Fury hybrid by Remsy
Oh yeah, I finally want to share a "serious" guide with you guys.
To me, this build in this particular way is the ultimate pvp character.
Once I tell you what I've done, you'll see why. There is nothing out there that will be able to beat you 100% and that's a fact(excluding non-ladder where I don't know all the old stuff lik .08 valks and highlords and stuff).
It's a rabies-fury hybrid wolf and it will garner a lot of hatred from the hapless sorcs, barbs and smiters who are confounded as to how they just died.
Laugh at them as they ask you if the ravens killed them and you say "as a matter of fact, those ravens do 1k damage each and are godly. And you see that poison creeper, it does 100k poison damage so beware:grin: )
On to the main guide which has:
Stats
Gear
Skill points
Strategies.
Stats
Strength: Only enough to wear your gear. In my case, I use a mage-plate enigma which translated into only 37 str needed.
I got the rest of it from a very nice amulet I found and tgods when I have to swap to chains of honor for certain caster types. Try to keep strength to below 50 points as a roof.
Dexetrity: Max block is a must. Simple as that. Just check to see that you have 75% chance to block with your angelic amulet/ ring and ravenfrost combo.
Vitality: Everything else.
Mana: I don't evn know what this is for. Ignore it and don't you dare put a single point in it.
Gear
Gigantically important unfortunately. This particular build has a very low margin of error due to how fragile wolves can actually be in certain situations.
Armor:
Mageplate Enigma - If you want to go the full vita route, this is your armor of choice. It gives a massive strength boost leaving a lot of free stat points for vitality.
Chains of Honor - If you're like me and can't afford a bunch of lovely 20life 11% res small charms, then CoH is your back-up against the evil caster.
Alternatives
Shaftstop - This is still a very good armor. Only reason I don't use it is the loss in +skills from either CoH or Enigma. But this would be a good substitute if you wanted to go head to head with a smiter when you are using your two-hander.
Fortitude - If you always like to get in there and have a good scrap, fortitude can't be beat really with the enormous boost to damage and life. If you want to focus more on your fury side then get this armor.
Personally I never had one.
There are probably others out there but please don't use this:
160/60 armor - IAS that isn't on the weapon has little to no affect at all on the wolf attack speed sorry. Give it to your bowazon.
Helm:
Jalals - I love this badboy, fhr, resistances, str, it has all you actually need. Shael it and you're almost at the last breakpoint for fhr. Um it for res.
Cerebus - If you really want a tiny bit more ar, go for this but I don't recommend it. The bonus aren't really that great for this build unless you have the right charms to back it up and make up for the losses from Jalals. I didn't, so I couldn't use this.
Other fine choices:
Guillame's Face - It's got mods, I'll give it that, but it just doesn't look good on a druid.
Crown of Ages - If you have these funds, use it on another character, ber'd shaftstop is all you need. Please don't waste time and runes on this.
Belt:
Verdungos - Nice, nice, nice belt. Fhr, damage reduction, life. beauty
Thundergod's Vigor - Str and vitality. All important light res and sorb. T gods is a great substitute for the fact that you don't have a lot of str. Use your tgods when you need to make armor changes to make up for the loss in str from enigma.
A sweet rare - Mods to look for include: str, life, resistances, fhr. These can all come on the same belt so look out!!!
Note: Crafted belts can also come with open wounds so if you're into the craftign thing, go for it.
Gloves:
Trangs - You're not a rabies wolf so you can't waste time with bramble. Boost your poison damage with these instead
Bloodfists - The godliest of unique pvp gloves in my opinion. Life, fhr CHEAP!!
Gloves to not use:
Dracs - I made this build to counter life-tapping people. Dracs only offer open-wounds and str but these things were compensated for elsewhere. They don't actually help you out in survivability against:
ww barbs: You won't hit them enough to activate 'tap most of the time.
Smiters: See above, all you're looking for is one or two good hits with these guys so lifetap is once again pointless.
Steelrends - Have you seen the str requirements?:shocked:
Boots:
Goreriders - The standard pvp boots since 1873.
Aldurs - Surprisingly good versus casters and smiters. You're gonna need more life and r/w and they have a good fire res bonus too. Keep these as backup.
Rings/ Amulet:
Amulet - There is no one amulet here. It's a mixture of maras, angelics and your good rare amulet with druid skills, resistance and str bonus.
The rare amulet and maras will obviously be used versus casters in conjunction with dual ravenfrosts.
The angelic ring/ammy combo will be backed up with a ravenfrost to avoid being frozen.
Weapon/Shield
Weapons (1h) - Loads of choices.
Grief phaseblade only(no zerk) - Massive damage, poison damage aswell and -poison res. 5 frame weapon
ethBotD zerk - Another very nice weapon with a higher range than grief making it better in some cases. 5 frame weapon
Griz Caddy - I hear that when this is socketed right it can get 4 frames and do sickdamage. I have never tried it though. If you know about this(it's 3 40-15s and Lo rune I think) go for it.
With all these weapons, a storm shield should be in your other hand. King of shields for pvp. Don't be fooled by phoenix. It has no place in your build.
Socket it according to your needs. In my case, I used an eld to get more chance to block saving me some dex.
Other good sockets include:
p diamond/ um for resistance;
Shael for faster blocking(I don't recommend this, wolves block slowly anyway, don't bother giving your wolf more animations to go through than recovery position. Let him block at whatever rate and make sure you have good fhr).
Weapons(2h):
Eth tombreaver - Get a 3 socket version and put 2 shaels and a zod or two 40-15s and a zod. 4 frame attack speed and serious damage.
EthBotD greatpoleaxe - 5 frame weapon yes, but it has more range than the tombreaver and is considerably easier to get.
There are other polearms out there but these two will never fail you.
Charms
Get an anni and a torch. These are pretty much standard by now.
Get as many shapeshift charms with life as possible. You won't be having oak sage so you need all the help you can get. Fill up the remaining space with 20 life ar scs or res scs or poison scs.
For the rabies trick
A death's web and a monarch with 4 poison facets in it.
Don't forget call to arms and a spirit shield for battle orders .
Skill points
Shapeshift tree:
Max fury
Max rabies
Max lycanthrophy
Max werewolf last
Get all the prereqs.
Summoning tree:
Max poison creeper
1 pt in ravens
Beyond level 91
get the wolves and the bear then oak sage or something. Whatever you want.
Build was completed a couple of levels ago anyway man!:grin:
Strategy
Against melee characters:
Use 1h weap and shield for primary.
Make sure you have dweb switch on secondary. Bo if you want to but I usually don't need to go that far.
Against ww barbs, wear your trangs gloves. Leave the rest of whatever your melee gear is on. Try to bite them, don't walk after them if you miss, just stay in one spot. Chasing ww is always a bad idea as you're giving them more hits.
Once you get the bite in, switch to dweb and facet monarch and then switch back to 1h weap and shield and then shift+fury. My record with ww barbs is 100%. With practice, you'll be glad it's a ww barb you're dueling.
Against conc barbs, bite them and walk away, do the switch and then melee them out. They can't win this duel.
Against wolf-barbs, see above, but they are actually tougher than conc barbs in my opinion.
Against zealers, just put on your bloodfists and go at it with them. You won't really have time to switch and you are a melee wolf as well remember.
Only use the switch trick if they tap. They aren't being courteous to you, don't be to them. You really will have a hard time winning otherwise.
Against ww assassins, same as for wwbarbs.
Against kicksins, do whatever you want, they aren't beating you anyway. (No offense to kicksins,I've made my share as well and they are fun but not against a good wolf)
Against melee sorcs, do what you want. They go down quickly aswell, just make sure you have max fhr.
Against jabzons, they're lying and as soon as they might lose, they switch to charged strike and poke you. Don't trust a jabber.
Against casters:
For all sorcs/ cs zons/ trappers - Put on your resistance gear and your 2h weap. Summon the ravens!!!
Against cs zons that don't far-cast, shift+fury. They will spend too much time dodging both your attacks and the ravens pecking at them to actually kill you.
Against sorcs - the ravens make them a fraction slower meaning you have enough time to bite them and then make the switch to dweb when they teleport away. Shift+fury if they teleport in a pattern so teleport right into it while you wait for them to die.
Oh, and as soon as you bite them type "good duel(gd)" as this is what it always is.
Against trappers - Bite them if you can between mind blasts and then shift fury when the time is right. Trappers can be easy or hard. It's about luck here.
Against bone necros/ smiters/ hammerdins/ fohdins: - Leave on your melee gear but change to two hander instead of 1 hander.
The necros will go down rather easily if they don't bone prison you. Aim for their golem as the golem usually charges at you. Once it's infected, it will infect the necro for you aswell. Game over
Against hammerdins- Shift fury, forget about rabies, you need to get in quick and finish them off unless they charge about and leave hammer fields.
Against smiters - Bite them then run away, they usually then try to charge you. Time it right, stop and shift fury and they charge right into it. Lather, rinse and repeat. The birds also help alot against these guys.
Againt bowzons - Don't use fury at all. Fury is a longer attack than rabies. Simply bite them and continue to chase after them leaving them less time to shoot at you. It works out that you're hurting them all the time while they're hurting you only some of the time. Your win their loss.
Fohdins- If you made it past level 91, summon your wolves and fohdins aren't that great as they have a harder time locking on to you. Below 91, pray they have crappy resistance and try to get a bite in early.
AGAINST OTHER DRUIDS
Windies - Pure melee is cool against windies. Simply run in a circle around them and then rush in and shift fury. If they have summons, infect the summon the way you would a necro golem and watch them die.
Other wolves - I usually just melee against other wolves as it's too much fun to find another wolf on ladder.
Bears - I have yet to see a good bear so have your way with them.
Fire druids - Always tg and can't be killed really, stand by town and hope they don't see you run out as they come out to cast another fissure...
One more thing of note:
Always summon poison creeper.
It does more damage than you think and is a funny death.:laughing:
Veilside
29-07-2006, 15:13
this just seems to be a bad copy of stoute and ragnirs build, with a bit more of an emphasis on poison :shocked:
Wow, what a bad way to start off.
Second, there really aren't many similarities between our builds at all. If you had decided to read it.
Third, there's no emphasis on poison. The wolf with this build does 50k poison damage on display. The emphasis is on a good fury wolf with poison back up for when pure melee would be tedious.
Fourth, how many ways are there to build a good wolf? Of course there are similarities!!!
And my wolf would probaby win more than theirs would.
stoutewolf
29-07-2006, 18:27
Wow, what a bad way to start off.
Second, there really aren't many similarities between our builds at all. If you had decided to read it.
Third, there's no emphasis on poison. The wolf with this build does 50k poison damage on display. The emphasis is on a good fury wolf with poison back up for when pure melee would be tedious.
Fourth, how many ways are there to build a good wolf? Of course there are similarities!!!
And my wolf would probaby win more than theirs would.
I highly doubt you could kill our 11k life monsters, we do win the majority of our duels. If you need one, whisper me anytime.
stoutewolf
29-07-2006, 19:49
I highly doubt you could kill our 11k life monsters, we do win the majority of our duels. If you need one, whisper me anytime.
rofl i shouldnt let my big brother answer these kind of threads :S he is so rude somethimes because he takes these kind of replies as an offence
the real stoutewolf is here now: remsy could you tell me the difference between yours and our guide plz? i see no reason why your would be better actually cause i see nothing new in it except for a rare amu which is imo a bad choice and the different skillchoice.
i suggest you put the option shael first for storm btw, druids have horrible faster block rate and i see no reason why you'll need an um in the storm because you will use the storm versus melee=not very much ele dmg at all.
also i think the duelling strategies aren't very good, they are way to short, a foher won't kill you because you can reshift and i don't see the advice to walk to a bowazon with storm on switch, neither the advice versus a bonenecro to packa s much frw as possible :cry:
thx in advance :wink3:
rofl i shouldnt let my big brother answer these kind of threads :S he is so rude somethimes because he takes these kind of replies as an offence
the real stoutewolf is here now: remsy could you tell me the difference between yours and our guide plz? i see no reason why your would be better actually cause i see nothing new in it except for a rare amu which is imo a bad choice and the different skillchoice.
Don't misquote anything trying to prove me wrong man. It's not cool.
I said I had a rare amulet I used for str when changing to resist gear. I don't use it for melee duels because I'm usually using enigma at the time so str isn't an issue. Against casters, 17k ar is more than enough to do the job.
Difference in guides, I don't have to point out the differences because the end results are a different wolf.
And your brother said you have 11k life which I know isn't possible without sage. I get 6.6k life without it using my build and my charms are far from perfect.
i suggest you put the option shael first for storm btw, druids have horrible faster block rate and i see no reason why you'll need an um in the storm because you will use the storm versus melee=not very much ele dmg at all.
From experience, Shael is wasted on an ss for a wolf. Blockrate is bad anyway. You spend alot of time either blocking or going into fhr and your attacks are interruptible. Meanwhile they are constantly chipping away at your life and they have probably already activated life tap. Socketing an eld is much more useful as it frees up dex points to be used elsewhere. Another difference between my guide and yours.
also i think the duelling strategies aren't very good, they are way to short, a foher won't kill you because you can reshift and i don't see the advice to walk to a bowazon with storm on switch, neither the advice versus a bonenecro to packa s much frw as possible :cry:
Dueling strategies don't have to be long winded.
They are to the point and say all you need to know. Your guide makes it seem like a science and I never actually got all the way through them.
In Pvp, you're not dueling robots. People react differently based on gear, lag, what the other guys in the game are doing and so on.
My strategy guides covered what generally happens and what the best thing to do is. Then freestyle it from there.
AS for your advice up above about the fohers, bowas and the necs, that's just ridiculous.
Fohers can kill you wether you reshift or not because of LAG!! Or mis-clicking. It happens and re-shifting only works so many times before he realizes what is going on and then just charges you after hitting you. You don't shift that fast....
You don't duel as much as you say you do if you think walking up to a bowa is the best thing to do when:
a: Lag will make it so wolves are simply stuck in firestorm. On your screen it looks like the bowazon has suddenly teleported farther away from you after servers synch back up.
b: Bad manners are rampant in most duel games on ladder. I've met only 3 bowazons who didn't have knockback. Try walking up to them.
c: You really think a bowazon is gonna watch you walk all the way up to them and just stand there?
About the necromancer advice.
Why waste space with r/w charms? 45 from enigma + 40 from aldurs plus bonus from shifting to werewolf plus range 4 or 5 from eth tombreaver or eth gpa isn't enough?
You don't get it do you?
This is a hybrid wolf. I don't have to rely on shift fury. All I need is one bite and I almost always get it.
The most important thing about this build is the fact that they have to change their strategies because of you.
Where a sorc would always teleport out of reach and chip away at you, they have to start chasing you now because they're on the clock since rabies poison kills. You don't have to spend time chasing them because they have to either come to you or go town or die. Same goes for bone necs.
Hammerdins still succumb to shift+fury and I said this.
In conclusion, don't make my wolf like yours. My guide is not your guide at all.
My wolf build is not your wolf build and I haven't even read your guide since the day you posted it and paracyte was around before that. Don't believe me?
Ask guys like Olwe and Roomba who run into me on ladder. I didn't use your guide to make any of my wolves.
And if any of you are on east non-ladder, I can't wait to duel you next month:thumbsup:
stoutewolf
30-07-2006, 00:20
Don't misquote anything trying to prove me wrong man. It's not cool.
I said I had a rare amulet I used for str when changing to resist gear. I don't use it for melee duels because I'm usually using enigma at the time so str isn't an issue. Against casters, 17k ar is more than enough to do the job.
Difference in guides, I don't have to point out the differences because the end results are a different wolf.
And your brother said you have 11k life which I know isn't possible without sage. I get 6.6k life without it using my build and my charms are far from perfect.
From experience, Shael is wasted on an ss for a wolf. Blockrate is bad anyway. You spend alot of time either blocking or going into fhr and your attacks are interruptible. Meanwhile they are constantly chipping away at your life and they have probably already activated life tap. Socketing an eld is much more useful as it frees up dex points to be used elsewhere. Another difference between my guide and yours.
Dueling strategies don't have to be long winded.
They are to the point and say all you need to know. Your guide makes it seem like a science and I never actually got all the way through them.
In Pvp, you're not dueling robots. People react differently based on gear, lag, what the other guys in the game are doing and so on.
My strategy guides covered what generally happens and what the best thing to do is. Then freestyle it from there.
AS for your advice up above about the fohers, bowas and the necs, that's just ridiculous.
Fohers can kill you wether you reshift or not because of LAG!! Or mis-clicking. It happens and re-shifting only works so many times before he realizes what is going on and then just charges you after hitting you. You don't shift that fast....
You don't duel as much as you say you do if you think walking up to a bowa is the best thing to do when:
a: Lag will make it so wolves are simply stuck in firestorm. On your screen it looks like the bowazon has suddenly teleported farther away from you after servers synch back up.
b: Bad manners are rampant in most duel games on ladder. I've met only 3 bowazons who didn't have knockback. Try walking up to them.
c: You really think a bowazon is gonna watch you walk all the way up to them and just stand there?
About the necromancer advice.
Why waste space with r/w charms? 45 from enigma + 40 from aldurs plus bonus from shifting to werewolf plus range 4 or 5 from eth tombreaver or eth gpa isn't enough?
You don't get it do you?
This is a hybrid wolf. I don't have to rely on shift fury. All I need is one bite and I almost always get it.
The most important thing about this build is the fact that they have to change their strategies because of you.
Where a sorc would always teleport out of reach and chip away at you, they have to start chasing you now because they're on the clock since rabies poison kills. You don't have to spend time chasing them because they have to either come to you or go town or die. Same goes for bone necs.
Hammerdins still succumb to shift+fury and I said this.
In conclusion, don't make my wolf like yours. My guide is not your guide at all.
My wolf build is not your wolf build and I haven't even read your guide since the day you posted it and paracyte was around before that. Don't believe me?
Ask guys like Olwe and Roomba who run into me on ladder. I didn't use your guide to make any of my wolves.
And if any of you are on east non-ladder, I can't wait to duel you next month
hehe i think i pissed you off, this wasn't my intention though
i just thought there would be another way out instead of switchig your amu for example: a craft/rare belt can get up to 30 str and a ring can get up to 20 aswell with 10 resist on the side (25 if crafted if i remem correctly). This way you keep the ~35 deadly strike which is awfull nice. If you prefer to lose this anyway i suggest you try to make a frw craft, its like an rare amulet but with up to 5-10 frw on it(equal to 20-40 life) and a bonus of 10-20 life:smiley:
versus bowazons it is good to walk because this way you can block the arrows, with eni and circlet on you will have enough frw to come close to them. If they run, you will run and switch to tomb etc. This will result in their dead. I used to run into them with my raw 2hander, that was in the times i always lost to them. After hearing this technique i stated from a known fury druid (fod-rico) i tried it out and it works very very well. I suggest you try it once aswell:thumbsup:
true blockrate is bad anyway, but that isn't a good reason not to put things in it. We are trying to make the best pvp wolf right?
in the necromancers advice, i never told you to get rid of those 20 life scs, i told you to pack frw as in put on ur circlet, you dont need the resistance anyway on it.
imo lag is a very bad argument , everyone has it so does your opponent, so this isn't a real good argument IMO.
i think there is no need in attacking my duelling experience because it doesn't have anything to do with this topic. I have enough of it i think though, i started duelling with melee druids in 1.08 and sice then i never made other chars (although i do play on my brothers barb or sorc somethimes)
i have no reason not to believe that ur druid was there before i posted my build here and i never said something about this, correct me if i am wrong.
i can't duell you because i am on europe myself, hf at east though (there is btw no info about the lad reset so i would't be so sure that lad resets thos month)
ones again no hard feelings against other druid players, i am glad more and more people play these characters :thumbsup:
/stoutewolf
btw you were right, we only have 11k with oak sage indeed, we like to resummon it therefor :grin:
HuggieTheBear
30-07-2006, 01:02
I have to say the guides are very similar. Not saying anyones copying anyone. The major difference is that you went with wolf for AR (not a bad choice on usaeast-non ladder) and a few different items for selection. Truth be told the nature of the guide is going to be similar mainly because well its and s/s druid and their is only so many s/s builds.
Now, I am going to say this. I pride myself on being a smart dueler and understanding what tactic to use vs what char (by listening to others techniques and trying them for myself). When it comes to dueling a necromancer frw is an absolute must. I say this for one reason if you don't get near them you have to unshift and teleport out of their bone prison (assuming they are a bonemancer). Their are 2 issues with this if they have enough faster cast they will kill you once you unshift. If you try to run past the boneprison a desynch lag happens and you end up being killed by bonespirits before you know whats happening. What this means is that any good dueling bone mancer will beat you. Yes, you heard me correct you don't have much of a chance of killing them unless they make a really stupid mistake. Infact they can get so cheesy that they will decrepify you and use their stone golem to slow you down (literally killing all your run walk speed). I have tried using rabies vs a bunch of the good necro casters and I still lost (their resists were way to high). The only thing I think that could truly help you is finding a 1.07 crafted sheild with 30% magic resistance on it (good luck with that). I don't even think then you would have a chance.
Well, good luck to you on your guide and hopefully one day bonemancers wont be so ***.
TheRisingX
30-07-2006, 03:18
How do you take on smiters? You seem to have missed that part in your guide.
Remsy congratulations for putting a guide up!
One question - how do you manage the two sets of switch equipment? If you need to BO, do you just go to a random waypoint, bo, then come back to town and switch to d. web/monarch, then go out? Do you have enough room in stash for everything?
Also, how has the eld'd stormshield been working for you? I remember when you switched it out and i'm curious as to the results you've had so far - does it seem to be better than the shael? I wonder also which is better if you're going pure fury (like my guy) instead of a hybrid.
I also found a 4os griz caddy 236 ed recently but don't have the jewels to put in it yet. Could be fun :laugh:
Again good work on the guide :thumbsup:
woof awooo... Nice guide hehe my wolf is almost identical for the skill choice's, maxed werewolf instead of relying on oak.
I take it you are kinda stuck with usin enigma unless you use t-god for strg too use gear with out nigma?
How much rabie's dmg you usaully doin with the gear you use most often?
also for vs the real tough wind druid's , im sure you run into a lot of good one's that dont die in 1 rabie bite and can be real tough too beat if they use summon's
Coa +Enigma+ dungo and eth tomb is the ultimate setup Vs a Wind druid imho so dont completely ruel Coa out.
TheRisingX
30-07-2006, 09:13
@Elohim: Do you play on Ladder? If so, can we meet sometime, I'll need some tips for dueling, gear etc. ^_^
HarbingersOfSkulls
30-07-2006, 17:03
@Elohim: Do you play on Ladder? If so, can we meet sometime, I'll need some tips for dueling, gear etc. ^_^
Ya...he's on west ladder...one crazy wolf he is.
HoS
@elohim: Windies actually aren't that tough for me and I don't get into the rabies aspect of my wolf at all. The reason for this is windies are the most likely casters to have max resists.
Tactic that has never failed me is run in a circle around them, then charge in, hit shift+fury and they can't fight back. I use my polearm always versus windies.
@Olwe: Believe it or not, I don't usually bo. In fact, I don't bo at all when fighting barbarians as I have 5.5k life anyway. I just keep the switch where my cta and spirit would be.
If I do need to bo, I bo first, shift then swap my cta and spirit for dweb and 4 facet monarch.
Go with shael if you're pure fury. When a duel is too hard with pure melee, I use poison so it balances out for me. I don't approve of dracs so I don't tap and so I also poison anyone who uses lifetap on me =)
@TheRisingx: I have found that once a smiter has around 39k def, you're not really going to be beating them all that much with simply shift fury.
My method to beat them is shift+rabies. Use a polearm not your shield and weap so you have more room for error. Also have ravens summoned to slow them down some more. Rabies them and then run!!(I know it's cowardly but do it.) Make your switch to death's web and facet monarch and then switch back to polearm and then shift + fury them.
Most smiters don't have such good resistance so this method works well for them.
The only time it really fails is when they have a decent charge and can connect pretty much everytime so your basically stuck in recovery until you die or they die. You'll be surprised how often they drop dead anyway.
Also, duel them far away from town. That way they die before they make it back anyway :thumbsup
@Huggie: There is no real problem with boneprison. Shift+fury takes care of it.
The only problem is when they layer boneprison and you were caught unawares. Then you're screwed. Otherwise they're usually missing when they try to bone prison me. Like I said, aldurs + enigma + wolf form is enough to outrun boneprison. Test it out yourselves.
And as for catching them, bite the golem if it's so hard. Or simply stop chasing them. They're going to get bored of shooting and come in closer...
@stoute: I'm telling you man, run at them with a shield. Sure you won't block all but you will still block some and they don't hit all the time either.
Bite them with rabies and make the switch.
Remember: Rabies has only 1 hit while fury has 5 hits. Rabies is a faster attack. You have more room for error if you miss. They can only get off 1 shot if you miss with rabies as opposed to 3 or 4 if you miss with fury.
And most wolves can tank quite a few arrows before going down, even if they use knockback.
stoutewolf
30-07-2006, 19:26
@elohim: Windies actually aren't that tough for me and I don't get into the rabies aspect of my wolf at all. The reason for this is windies are the most likely casters to have max resists.
Tactic that has never failed me is run in a circle around them, then charge in, hit shift+fury and they can't fight back. I use my polearm always versus windies.
@Olwe: Believe it or not, I don't usually bo. In fact, I don't bo at all when fighting barbarians as I have 5.5k life anyway. I just keep the switch where my cta and spirit would be.
If I do need to bo, I bo first, shift then swap my cta and spirit for dweb and 4 facet monarch.
Go with shael if you're pure fury. When a duel is too hard with pure melee, I use poison so it balances out for me. I don't approve of dracs so I don't tap and so I also poison anyone who uses lifetap on me =)
@TheRisingx: I have found that once a smiter has around 39k def, you're not really going to be beating them all that much with simply shift fury.
My method to beat them is shift+rabies. Use a polearm not your shield and weap so you have more room for error. Also have ravens summoned to slow them down some more. Rabies them and then run!!(I know it's cowardly but do it.) Make your switch to death's web and facet monarch and then switch back to polearm and then shift + fury them.
Most smiters don't have such good resistance so this method works well for them.
The only time it really fails is when they have a decent charge and can connect pretty much everytime so your basically stuck in recovery until you die or they die. You'll be surprised how often they drop dead anyway.
Also, duel them far away from town. That way they die before they make it back anyway :thumbsup
@Huggie: There is no real problem with boneprison. Shift+fury takes care of it.
The only problem is when they layer boneprison and you were caught unawares. Then you're screwed. Otherwise they're usually missing when they try to bone prison me. Like I said, aldurs + enigma + wolf form is enough to outrun boneprison. Test it out yourselves.
And as for catching them, bite the golem if it's so hard. Or simply stop chasing them. They're going to get bored of shooting and come in closer...
@stoute: I'm telling you man, run at them with a shield. Sure you won't block all but you will still block some and they don't hit all the time either.
Bite them with rabies and make the switch.
Remember: Rabies has only 1 hit while fury has 5 hits. Rabies is a faster attack. You have more room for error if you miss. They can only get off 1 shot if you miss with rabies as opposed to 3 or 4 if you miss with fury.
And most wolves can tank quite a few arrows before going down, even if they use knockback.
i prefer walking, you can still walk fast with all the frw you have in gear, no ht=no kockback you know. Since i tried this tactic i have never lost a duell versus them, even if they desynch. Run reduces your block to 1/3 so 25%. I prefer 50 less frw and only 1 hit in 4 arrows then taking 3 hits with 50% more frw. Remember that if you get hit, you turn in block animation which takes long on a druid and you get kocked back ofc. Try my tactic somethimes, just try it ones or twice :jig: . Ofc it is better to use rabies btw then fury, bowazons are known for their low life and low resistance:wink3:
xpumafangx
30-07-2006, 22:05
Remsy I do think this is a really nice Build. But all in all its a mini guilde to stoute and rang's. Good job on it. Wheres the spray on glue when you need it.
Also I think we all need to get together and do a huge guild on stragies alone + ink. Then get it submitted. But I wonder if its just going to end up being a book.
stoutewolf
30-07-2006, 22:50
Remsy I do think this is a really nice Build. But all in all its a mini guilde to stoute and rang's. Good job on it. Wheres the spray on glue when you need it.
Also I think we all need to get together and do a huge guild on stragies alone + ink. Then get it submitted. But I wonder if its just going to end up being a book.
good idea, i think it is best to make our own strats guide first and then make a big one with all the nice tips. Tell me what you guys think :wink3: .
it may be smart to ask people that play other classses aswell, they mostly know the weaknesses better from their sort of chars then we do :laugh:
blakheat
31-07-2006, 00:34
thx a bunch you really help'd me prove my friend wrong in that all ss druids suck. lol i own'd just about all his chars but i cant get past his infinity trapsin :\ (run, tele, run, tele, traps, mindblast, run, tele, traps, mb some more, i die):cry: otherwise, i own im.:grin:
Darksteel
31-07-2006, 06:19
Quick question on the rabies bug...
SO after you rabies someone and switch to the rabies gear... you don't have to leave it out? You can just flash it and it works the same?
Yes.
Just switch to the high poison damage gear and then switch back to regular gear by hitting the 'w' button on the keyboard and you get both great poison damage and good melee damage. Dunno if it's a bug though. Think it's just how rabies is.
DoC-Makaveli
31-07-2006, 10:09
@stoute: I'm telling you man, run at them with a shield. Sure you won't block all but you will still block some and they don't hit all the time either.
Bite them with rabies and make the switch.
Remember: Rabies has only 1 hit while fury has 5 hits. Rabies is a faster attack. You have more room for error if you miss. They can only get off 1 shot if you miss with rabies as opposed to 3 or 4 if you miss with fury.
And most wolves can tank quite a few arrows before going down, even if they use knockback.
What if they play correctly and throw LF at you with Storm up while you chase them? That lowers your chance to hit by another 75%. Any good bowazon would do that... =/
ToThePoint
31-07-2006, 11:51
seems to be just a weaker varaition of the basic build stoute made guide about.
more life always helps - more ar doesn't always help.
@Doc: That didn't save any of the bowazons from me sorry. And how does throwing lf lower my chance to hit?:undecided:
@Tothepoint: What is weaker about my build? They don't have more life. They have more life with oak sage which will always wander into the duel path during any duel and get executed. During any good melee duel, there is no time to re-summon it.
I know this for a fact because my other wolf with oak sage at level 89 had 10.6k life. The only changes were I maxed rabies and poison creeper with this build. Without oak sage, we are the same and my build would negate the oak sage of any build that uses it regardless.
Even if they stack poison resistance, their sage doesn't and I have all the melee wolf gear on anyway.
Explain how my build is weaker in depth.
And please tell me a situation where more ar doesn't help when you're trying to hit something.
ToThePoint
31-07-2006, 12:42
in depth - make time to recast and melee isn't the only kind of duel you are doing is it otherwise you wouldn't mention any other nonmelee classes.
a situation where more ar doesn't help is the time you go from something like 93% chance to hit with base werewolf then go up to 94 or so % chance to hit with max WW vs a low dr attacker.
basically nothing vs the increase in life you get from max oak.
sounds like you dont want any criticism anyway :)
What are you talking about to the point?
It seems like you're simply looking for a fight because I directly answered all questions that have been posed about the guide and not insulted anyone yet.
You're the one who has reiterated something that has already been addressed with no beneficial additions.
Your situation is a mindless reason to not have more ar as werewolves aren't made with the soul purpose of going up against low dr attackers, atleast not the one in this guide.
Therefore, more ar is essential in this build to make up for some short-comings to make it viable in the pvp environment.
ToThePoint
31-07-2006, 16:59
i reiterated a valid point which you dismissed with, well, little reason.
i realise more ar helps vs some chars and i said that but what i said is more life ALWAYS helps unlike more ar which ONLY helps vs high def chars.
The soul purpose of this guide is to go against melee chars? no so i was wrong? no.
For what it's worth, I just won more duels against a WW barb last night without using Oak Sage rather than with. He was leeching off the sage and gaining back life, and so when I dropped from 7.5K life to 5.3K or so without the sage, I won the majority of the duels. So more life isn't always necessarily better.
The sage, however, was useful against a bow zon as it provided another target for the arrows.
As far as recasting oak sage, I've found that there is no time to recast it vs. zealers or other fury druids. Against WW barbs, yes, step out of their path and then recast, or casters you can recast, so it seems like all of this oak sage stuff is very situational.
@tothepoint: I addressed your point explicitly actually when said that ar also always helps. 6k+ life is not low life without oak sage. I in fact seldom bo and use 5.4k life to duel and have no problems. Oak sage still dies alot like olwe said and is a source of life leech against other melee characters and is not as beneficial as it would seem at first. Especially when it is high level and doesn't die in one hit.
@Olwe: True it provides an extra target but one point in spirit wolves provides 5 targets.
inkanddagger
31-07-2006, 19:33
I can say for absolute certain that more life doesn't always help. see: crushing blow.
also, i have made an 11k life max block wolf, and it dies much faster to melee than my 7k life balance build. You guys obsess over stat conservation for vita, but it isn't necessary. I always build 130-160str, 190-225 dext, rest vita if I am making something that is going to be all melee competitive. Damage/attack rating > life. This is why 5k life titans with 12k 1 handed fury wreck the hell out of 6k damage 11k life druids. damage is exponential over the course of the duel, life is a diminishing incremental.
^^Is another wolf expert that reinforces my points.
Life doesn't always help. Lot's of ar always helps.
Deadly strike is I think what he meant not crushing blow and the difference between 10k and 5k life is negligible when an eth death cleaver is hacking away at you while you're struggling to hit him.
Same thing with a max block energy shield sorc or a max block bone armor pnb necro or a max fhr max block ele druid spamming tornados.
AR is king for melee. How do you think paladins with much lower life can compete? Defense can't be everything right?
inkanddagger
31-07-2006, 19:55
no, I meant crushing blow on that part - although ds and cs go along with the damage being exponential statement.
When you have 11k life, it is going to be noticeable. Actually, some of my friends were playing around with mpq editing and had kick as a usable attack (you know the kick you use on barrels?) it says it does 0-1 damage, but you can knock massive amounts of life away from people by just tossing guillaumes face on.
it is 1/10 and then factor 50% dr, you lose 550 life on the first hit, 510 on the second, etc - the 11k life druid is reduced to the 9k life druid with less damage and ar by the fourth hit into the duel. even moreso if the 11k life druid isn't using 50% dr, which scales the damage taken way up.
Since 1.10 Crushing Blow is calculated before your normal damage. So, before doing the damage that you would normally do, there is a chance you will reduce the health of the player or monster by X% then normal damage apply to the resulting lower life. Crushing blow is not affected by the PvP penalty. If you have more than one item with Crushing Blow, the probabilities will be added together. There will be one random check for a Crushing Blow. There is no check for each separate item, so one can not get multiple Crushing Blows in one attack.
so the difference between this guide and stoute's guide is that this guide doesnt rely on oak sage but rather AR?
even though i dont pvp much..i gotta agree that i actually prefer maxing werewolf rather than oak...
what's the use of a great deal of dmg when the hit doesnt connect?
crush blow sort of negate having high amount of life..as people already mentioned in the previous pages
and i find it a hassle to keep recasting my oak whenever they kill it
i might just go 20 points into werewolf for my next fury/rabies :grin: :thumbsup:
no, I meant crushing blow on that part - although ds and cs go along with the damage being exponential statement.
When you have 11k life, it is going to be noticeable. Actually, some of my friends were playing around with mpq editing and had kick as a usable attack (you know the kick you use on barrels?) it says it does 0-1 damage, but you can knock massive amounts of life away from people by just tossing guillaumes face on.
it is 1/10 and then factor 50% dr, you lose 550 life on the first hit, 510 on the second, etc - the 11k life druid is reduced to the 9k life druid with less damage and ar by the fourth hit into the duel. even moreso if the 11k life druid isn't using 50% dr, which scales the damage taken way up.
Since 1.10 Crushing Blow is calculated before your normal damage. So, before doing the damage that you would normally do, there is a chance you will reduce the health of the player or monster by X% then normal damage apply to the resulting lower life. Crushing blow is not affected by the PvP penalty. If you have more than one item with Crushing Blow, the probabilities will be added together. There will be one random check for a Crushing Blow. There is no check for each separate item, so one can not get multiple Crushing Blows in one attack.
This is great info man. Now I gotta find characters with enough life for this to be noticeable:azn:
stoutewolf
31-07-2006, 21:43
This is great info man. Now I gotta find characters with enough life for this to be noticeable:azn:
already tried my tactic remsy (walking to a bowzon)?
btw, it all depends on who you are duelling, the only targets where you need more ar then 15k is versus bvb barbs/conc barbs (noone on europe) and smiters/zealers. There isn't much need in ar versus casters and we have alot of those on europe, therefor my build would be suited better for europeans and maybe yours for useast, although i have never played there. Versus smiters/barbs you are able to resummon your oak anyway so the prob is with the zealers :lipsrsealed:
ToThePoint
31-07-2006, 22:00
you make it sounds like you die faster if you have more life which is ofc not the case.
if so then best to use 1 life chars so you dont get cb triggering vs you.
my point was also not life at expense of all else - it wasn't even at the expense of damage - only at the loss of ar which is only relevant in some duels.
As this is to take on all chars then its obviously weakened all round as ar helps for less than the life helps
You want to argue the point vs pure melee then go ahead but state its a pure melee build
Darksteel
31-07-2006, 23:17
Just out of courisity, what IS your ar with this build?
27k ar
6.8k life
75% block
level 43 werewolf when boing. I don't prebuff other than bo.
@Stoute: No I haven't tried your tactic because there haven't been any bowazons in any of my games.
@tothepoint: Move on man, move on. You started attacking and now you speak like you're the one who should have a chip on their shoulder. It's my guide, my ways. Don't like it, move on. Not changing my build at level 90 after all the success it's had because of something you said which I know will not benefit me on useast.
ToThePoint
01-08-2006, 11:18
i never attacked you i 'attacked' points in your guide - you dont even have the basics when you thought ink was talking about DS not CB - very basic game mechanics.
i notice a pattern - agree and you are an expert and right, disagree and you are noob and you are not changing your build cos it kills all noob!
ink kind of misunderstood my point anyway as i agree that damage can be better than life but only in some cases but where ar is better than life is debatable.
sorry you cant take criticism but anyway should be relabelled as
US EAST MELEE DOOLZZ ONLY then.
stoutewolf
01-08-2006, 13:39
i never attacked you i 'attacked' points in your guide - you dont even have the basics when you thought ink was talking about DS not CB - very basic game mechanics.
i notice a pattern - agree and you are an expert and right, disagree and you are noob and you are not changing your build cos it kills all noob!
ink kind of misunderstood my point anyway as i agree that damage can be better than life but only in some cases but where ar is better than life is debatable.
sorry you cant take criticism but anyway should be relabelled as
US EAST MELEE DOOLZZ ONLY then.
i think it is time to contact RTB or so for you guys, those sort of guys can probably check with some calcs if it is better to use ar over life versus high def chars. Versus low def chars (everything but some smiters/zealers and bvb's/conc barbs) life is better ofcourse :wink3:
ToThePoint
01-08-2006, 14:59
nn rtb is a simple cth calc and comparison of life increase vs ar increase but then he might not be as lazy as me :)
having more life is better, also having more ar is better - question is which is the best and is probably personal choice.
and agreed on low def chars so i stand by all point and maintain overall life > ar.
i never attacked you i 'attacked' points in your guide - you dont even have the basics when you thought ink was talking about DS not CB - very basic game mechanics.
i notice a pattern - agree and you are an expert and right, disagree and you are noob and you are not changing your build cos it kills all noob!
ink kind of misunderstood my point anyway as i agree that damage can be better than life but only in some cases but where ar is better than life is debatable.
sorry you cant take criticism but anyway should be relabelled as
US EAST MELEE DOOLZZ ONLY then.
Like I said, chip on the shoulder. No one called anyone a noob except yourself. Maybe you feel you're a noob, who knows?
And I know exactly how cb works, I was just under the impression that he meant deadly strike as cb isn't a factor in the majority of duels. Tell me if I'm wrong on that. I personally doubt it.
As for not taking criticism, I think what you mean is "Sorry I don't agree with your criticism:cry: "
That's what is bugging you.
P.S. I never said you attacked me...
ToThePoint
01-08-2006, 17:14
Like I said, chip on the shoulder. No one called anyone a noob except yourself. Maybe you feel you're a noob, who knows?
And I know exactly how cb works, I was just under the impression that he meant deadly strike as cb isn't a factor in the majority of duels. Tell me if I'm wrong on that. I personally doubt it.
As for not taking criticism, I think what you mean is "Sorry I don't agree with your criticism:cry: "
That's what is bugging you.
P.S. I never said you attacked me...
tt what a waste of time
i never said you said anyone was a noob its the whole attitude you have. Your guide is right and thats the end - disagree and you're wrong.
you know how cb works (so you say) but cb was the only thing relevant to what ink was saying.
cb IS a factor is duels especially those vs high life opponents whcih is the point of the whole arguement here so pretty simple to connect the 2. so yeah , you are wrong.
in the majority of duels? k ar isn't a factor in the majority of duels either.
ofc you never said anything about attacking you
"@tothepoint: Move on man, move on. You started attacking ..."
edit: back re: politician, i never said that i never said blah blah.
read what i wrote then if you want to be pedantic, i just said i never attacked you but i never said you said i did.
better luck in any thread - facets dont cast on shifting? shame better luck next time.
moved on bored.
You'd make an excellent politician btw. Quote only enough of the sentence to suit your needs. And even then there was no 'me'. Better luck in the next thread huh?
HarbingersOfSkulls
01-08-2006, 20:01
@ToThePoint & Remsy
You guys should just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
@Remsy
Got a few questions for you...in the title of your guide you list this as a "vita" build which I would take it (don't know about anyone else) sort of like a c/c trapper where nothing or very little in strength...base dexterity and rest in vitality. Since you use low strength...max block for dexterity and rest in vitality would it be considered a vita build?
Since you have ww maxxed and I take it either one or none in oak sage...how much life do you have before bo (either from youself or a barb)?
And if it's possible...could you post a screenshot of this build as well?
HoS
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/1737/sp3220060802232530yg7.gif
unshifted stats
http://img327.imageshack.us/img327/1899/sp3220060802232549er2.gif
my 1 handed weap at the moment
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/996/sp3220060802232615ad2.gif
my armor for melee
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3000/sp3220060802232648mv6.gif
my stormshield
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/8566/sp3220060802232711zo4.gif
my helm for melee
http://img454.imageshack.us/img454/3103/sp3220060802232802oz5.gif
Kind of gcs you should shoot for
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/602/sp3220060802232818gm7.gif
my two-handed weapon(wish it was better)
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9577/sp3220060802232836qp1.gif
kind of scs to look for
http://img447.imageshack.us/img447/4728/sp3220060802232849fh2.gif
kind of scs to look for
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/1710/sp3220060802232902pf6.gif
kind of lc to look for
http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6347/sp3220060802232940qf8.gif
shifted form with no bo stats
http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8923/sp3220060802233008lm2.gif
more shifted form with no bo stats
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/9017/sp3220060802233032ci7.gif
shifted form with bo
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/3138/sp3220060802233112bn8.gif
My poison switch
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/2981/sp3220060802233122jh2.gif
the other half of my poison switch
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/7651/sp3220060802233138eq9.gif
rabies damage on screen. I do more with caster gear on since I'm wearing maras or +2 ammy instead of angelics and I hate to prebuff
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/1733/sp3220060802233151ng2.gif
my stash
http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/6605/sp3220060802234226sc7.gif
shapeshifting skills
http://img349.imageshack.us/img349/4928/sp3220060802234333vq5.gif
summoning skills
For the rest of your inquiry, this is a vita build for when you want to use a shield and weapon aswell as a two hander when the time is right.
If you were to go exclusively two-handed, I feel you wouldn't win as much without the right gear but you would have some more life.
This is due to the fact that you would put all those dex points into vita.
The problem then would be that you would have to put more in str since enigma would be out of the question.
With this build you also don't have to worry about being screwed when they leech of your oak sage and slash your life at the same time when it dies.
thanks for the screenshots remsy :thumbsup:
jordy666
03-08-2006, 11:19
less bragging, more arguing
good to see you back broll :grin:
-jordy :strong:
i quess i can ask this here.. about grief.. is there a min ias i shoul aim for when buying a grief pb? do i need some ias to hit some vital break point? or is 30 ias giref pb as good as 40 ias?
i quess i can ask this here.. about grief.. is there a min ias i shoul aim for when buying a grief pb? do i need some ias to hit some vital break point? or is 30 ias giref pb as good as 40 ias?
According to this (http://home.comcast.net/~thedragoon/wereformadvanced.html), 30% will do you just fine.
Remsy - am I correct in assuming that those resists include the bonuses from Anya? If so, after the Anya Bug kicks in, you're looking at very low resists, even with the COH... around 40-45%?
I don't have anya quests.
And when I go for resists this is my gear:
Umed jalals
19 res druid ammy
coh
whatever the res is on my tombreaver tombreaver
aldurs boots
tgods
dual ravens
Let me put it like this:
Cold sorcs are almost never a problem
I don't always use coh against fire sorcs
light sorcs can be pain if they run around too much but they die anyway.
Sins accuse me of sorb and stacked res
Fohdins with the foh stick still need 3-4 hits to off me
I can kill auradins
Fireclaws druids are a joke
I kill even good enchantresses.
And yes, I have max res in all and 85 res in lightning.
I'm not lacking in the resistance department either.
the boss
05-08-2006, 13:44
nice dream spirit jalahs and nice tomb xD
Thanks boss, the sorcs seem to hate it though...
Darksteel
06-08-2006, 20:01
Which 1hnder would you recommend more, a grief phase blade or a griz caddy?
Grief seems like the damage output would be much higher and has a chance to deadly strike but griz of course can reach 4fpa.
Faster attack baby.
More hits before they get to lifetap you.
But I won't life to you, this is pure speculation. I've gotten a griz caddy and am in the process of obtaining the jewels.
I will test it out and put up a more definitive and factual argument.
BTW, botd zerk actually beats grief in certain instances where range is a factor. Like with ww barbs and sins or even smiters at times.
Darksteel
06-08-2006, 21:57
Faster attack baby.
More hits before they get to lifetap you.
But I won't life to you, this is pure speculation. I've gotten a griz caddy and am in the process of obtaining the jewels.
I will test it out and put up a more definitive and factual argument.
BTW, botd zerk actually beats grief in certain instances where range is a factor. Like with ww barbs and sins or even smiters at times.
Completely forgot that a phase blade only has 2 range... good point. The caddy also only has range 2, it'd be interesting to see if the faster attack would even it out. Alltogether though it does seem like a ebotdz would be the best choice.
I had a griz caddy with 40/15's+Lo. Imo it's mainly a show off toy , the dmg was minimul and the speed did not make up for it's damage. Unless you have like 36x 3/20/20's , the damge will be weak i think my fury wolf was doin 3.2k fury dmg with it top's.
After i got the darn thing i was very disapointed with it.
Darksteel
07-08-2006, 04:52
I had a griz caddy with 40/15's+Lo. Imo it's mainly a show off toy , the dmg was minimul and the speed did not make up for it's damage. Unless you have like 36x 3/20/20's , the damge will be weak i think my fury wolf was doin 3.2k fury dmg with it top's.
After i got the darn thing i was very disapointed with it.
So would you recommend just an ebotdz for 1hnder?
GreyGhost
07-08-2006, 06:51
I'm just curious why are u using enigma for melee? Do you teleport, then shift to wolf, then attack? Wouldn't bramble be better?
I'm not a rabies wolf. So bramble has no place in my build.
I'm a wolf with no oak sage.
This means I'm kinda stumped when it comes to life.
So to get aroudn this, I use enigma to have the minimum strength needed to use my gear. It means I can get past 400+ vitality with my gear to push my life past 5k before bo. It also means I have loads of r/w and it gives me a decent life bonus aswell.
So no, I never teleport, but Elohim does.
the boss
07-08-2006, 14:15
I'd go 3x shaels + 1x 40-15 on the gris, 110 ias reaches 4fpa, I think that should do it
ToThePoint
07-08-2006, 15:23
I'd go 3x shaels + 1x 40-15 on the gris, 110 ias reaches 4fpa, I think that should do it
so does 85ias on weapon = 3 ed/ias lo for 7/4
3 ed/ias shael for 6/4
I'm just curious why are u using enigma for melee? Do you teleport, then shift to wolf, then attack? Wouldn't bramble be better?
Mainly for the +str as written, but also the 45frw comes in handy. To teleport and shift to wolf and then attack would be sort of impossible versus anyone that knows how to move a character around when dueling. :azn:
so does 85ias on weapon = 3 ed/ias lo for 7/4
3 ed/ias shael for 6/4
Is there some webpage or strategy guide that lists the fury speeds and breakpoints for information like this? For 1 handed and 2 handed?
ToThePoint
07-08-2006, 16:45
Is there some webpage or strategy guide that lists the fury speeds and breakpoints for information like this? For 1 handed and 2 handed?
yes - the sticky :shocked:
yes - the sticky :shocked:
Ty sir. :idea:
7/4 if you use lo and 3 shaels then according to my calculations on that table.
Griz caddy isn't worth it for the cost and range when grief gives so much more damage and all the other goodies with only a frame difference.
You can only make it worth it by using all 40-15s in my opinion.
werehobo
08-08-2006, 02:33
hey im curious about 1 thing in your post. how do your summons deal so much? you said 100k from the poison creeper and 1k from the raven. Im curious how you got such high damage.
It was a joke man. I was talking about the questions you will face when they die from your attacks and how you can lie to them.
jokermwx
08-08-2006, 20:37
Completely forgot that a phase blade only has 2 range... good point. The caddy also only has range 2, it'd be interesting to see if the faster attack would even it out. Alltogether though it does seem like a ebotdz would be the best choice.
This is being debated on another forum.:scratch: Three people have stated that range 3 and below weapons all have the same range in SS form. I tested myself and it seemed to be true.:shocked:
Darksteel
09-08-2006, 01:09
This is being debated on another forum.:scratch: Three people have stated that range 3 and below weapons all have the same range in SS form. I tested myself and it seemed to be true.:shocked:
That's very interesting. Keep us informed plz, this could change some stuff around.
This can't be true.
I was once in a private duel and it was filled with nothing but whirl barbs.
They had good resistance so I had to rely on fury more than rabies.
I was using my grief phase blade initially and couldn't land a hit on these guys so I called in my buddy to help me xfer my ebotd zerk and voila! Problem was solved just like that.
They were using ebotd and beast and grief zerks so we all had the same range weaps.So if they were hitting me, I was hitting them.
That's why I don't think anything range 3 and below has the same range in werewolf mode.
LeegionOnEast
09-08-2006, 14:27
I think that all range matters in wearform, just from experience. I hope all range counts, because I just went out of my way to trade for a crappy, crappy, even crappy then you think Tomb Reaver so I could be better versus smiters. I mean, it's so crappy my eBOTDz does more max damage then it, and it's only got one socket. But it's great for killing smiters till I get eBOTDgpa.
inkanddagger
09-08-2006, 23:16
range matters, period. people debating it are either:
a) bored
b) stupid
c) confused by range precedence glitch
Darksteel
10-08-2006, 03:38
c) confused by range precedence glitch
First time I've heard of this, can you go into more detail?
Olwe and I dueled yesterday pure melee.
We tried all kinds of combinations and it turns out that range matters no matter what range it is.
When he had his botdz and I had my grief pb, he killed me more than I could kill him simple as that.
LeegionOnEast
10-08-2006, 13:55
Olwe and I dueled yesterday pure melee.
We tried all kinds of combinations and it turns out that range matters no matter what range it is.
When he had his botdz and I had my grief pb, he killed me more than I could kill him simple as that.
How much life do you have remsy? My wolf is at level 83 now and is just under 7.4k, and I built as a druid version of BvA. Hence, I used a lot more strength than needed to make up for alot of gear switches. When I level to 91, I will have all my skills maxed and about 8k life. I have life skillers, but not all perfect ones, they go 16,17,19,25,28,28,29,33,35 I beleive. I have 2 FHR small charms in my intentury, but I might scrap those for 2 more 20 lifers if I socket my Shafstop with my 7FHR/39 ED jewel. Then I hit a little over 8k at level 91, about 8.2k. Does this match up to the life you have? It seems like your build would have 10k+, but I haven't seen many wolves out there with more life than I do. I was just curious how mine stacks up.
My build has 10k life with oak sage but I don't have oak sage so I have 6.8k life.
I don't have perf gcs either but they're all above 30.
30,35,35,36,37,37,39,39,43.
inkanddagger
11-08-2006, 01:36
First time I've heard of this, can you go into more detail?
Ever notice sometimes it only looks like you swing once instead of doing all fury attacks? Ever notice when using a range 1 or 2 weapon you "tractor beam" up to your opponent over the course of a few hits?
range 1 takes range precedence, IF you shift correctly. Range 2 can't do it, so range 3 is default best when going 1 handed. This means - if you use a dagger or tomahawk, etc, and you shift your opponent and are out of range, it will look like you only do a normal attack, but in reality you are doing all fury attacks. You just can't see them.
LeegionOnEast
12-08-2006, 18:57
I'm rebuilding with a variation on your guide. Instead of maxing Werewolf last, I'm maxing Rabies last and maxing out Oak Sage instead of Werewolf. It's more like Vita Fury/Rabies, with Rabies as a back-up plan.
One question:
Against smiters, what set up do you use?
My druid now uses this setup:
Jalals Shaeled
Angelic Ammy, Ring x 2
Upped Shafstop
36/15 Dungos
Dracs
Gores
eBOTDGPA
However, with your build I can't get the strength. 55 with Torch+Anni, 75 with T-Gods, 95 with Jalals...I need much more for eBOTDGPA. Then I'd have to go with Enigma+Dungos+Jalals like usual, and then I only have 15% DR.
inkanddagger
12-08-2006, 20:39
I'm rebuilding with a variation on your guide. Instead of maxing Werewolf last, I'm maxing Rabies last and maxing out Oak Sage instead of Werewolf. It's more like Vita Fury/Rabies, with Rabies as a back-up plan.
One question:
Against smiters, what set up do you use?
My druid now uses this setup:
Jalals Shaeled
Angelic Ammy, Ring x 2
Upped Shafstop
36/15 Dungos
Dracs
Gores
eBOTDGPA
However, with your build I can't get the strength. 55 with Torch+Anni, 75 with T-Gods, 95 with Jalals...I need much more for eBOTDGPA. Then I'd have to go with Enigma+Dungos+Jalals like usual, and then I only have 15% DR.
then go enigma/verds/27DR CoA when two handed if you want to make an all out vita druid.
I'm rebuilding with a variation on your guide. Instead of maxing Werewolf last, I'm maxing Rabies last and maxing out Oak Sage instead of Werewolf. It's more like Vita Fury/Rabies, with Rabies as a back-up plan.
One question:
Against smiters, what set up do you use?
My druid now uses this setup:
Jalals Shaeled
Angelic Ammy, Ring x 2
Upped Shafstop
36/15 Dungos
Dracs
Gores
eBOTDGPA
However, with your build I can't get the strength. 55 with Torch+Anni, 75 with T-Gods, 95 with Jalals...I need much more for eBOTDGPA. Then I'd have to go with Enigma+Dungos+Jalals like usual, and then I only have 15% DR.
I go with anything against a smiter really. It's all or nothing.
When I know they are good smiters I use my ebotd zerk and shield and try my hardest to get a bite in with the minimum loss of life then switch to dweb/facet monarch. I then turn tail and run for a bit and then wait for them to charge me. Stop and shift fury.
So melee gear with dweb on switch.
I don't even bo and it's highly successful.
And rabies is my backup plan anyway. It's just that once you get werewolf to the point that you have almost 30k ar with 1 angelic ring and 1 ravenfrost then you can swap to maxing rabies instead of werewolf.
As for using the botd gpa because of range, I've found that smiters will hit you regardless. Only the crappy ones die because of range.
The true weapon against smiters is ravens. Summon those pesky birds man.:thumbsup:
I went from 30% wins to an about 75% wins against smiters because of them alone. Same thing with cs zons. They're so busy dodging that you can get to work on them.
I have a question on your gear set up. Do you have a 'default' set up that you use if there are casters and melee in the game? If so what does it consist of?
Which leads to, how does this build fare against 2v1, 3v1 etc. I'm assuming if you're dominating a game people are going to team up and take you on.
I've never played a druid before, so this is probably a dumb question to most. What purpose do the ravens serve/ how do they work? Obviously, they are at least, a distraction. Do they cause dmg? Or are their attacks just meant to interrupt a sorc's tele so you can catch them?
EDIT : also, whats the learning curve to effectively play this build like? Your strat's section was quite brief and I've found (in the past from other guides) that things aren't always as simple as what the guide author would suggest.
LeegionOnEast
16-08-2006, 05:54
I actually thought of this earlier for NL:
40/15 Dungos
Enigma
Bloodfists
eBOTDGPA
Dual Angelics + Ammy
War Travelers
Fal'd .08 Gaze
48% DR, very efficent versus Smiters due to huge range, speed, and damage. You can also substitute T-Gods for the Dungos and use a Ber'd .08 Gaze. That's 41% DR.
I have a question on your gear set up. Do you have a 'default' set up that you use if there are casters and melee in the game? If so what does it consist of?
Which leads to, how does this build fare against 2v1, 3v1 etc. I'm assuming if you're dominating a game people are going to team up and take you on.
I've never played a druid before, so this is probably a dumb question to most. What purpose do the ravens serve/ how do they work? Obviously, they are at least, a distraction. Do they cause dmg? Or are their attacks just meant to interrupt a sorc's tele so you can catch them?
EDIT : also, whats the learning curve to effectively play this build like? Your strat's section was quite brief and I've found (in the past from other guides) that things aren't always as simple as what the guide author would suggest.
My default setup with both casters and melee in game is:
umed jalals
tgods
2 ravens
ss
ebotd zerk
aldurs boots
res charms inplace of some of my ss charms
maras
and I'm usually good to go. Those kinds of games are actually pretty fun as you simply have to bite one of the other guys and run away. They end up infecting 2 or 3 other people b4 they go out or take you out and even in death you get the last laugh:thumbsup:
The ravens actually do damage. But their main purpose is to cause the other player to block. Ravens are a blockable attack and this slows down smiters and casters when it counts. It's also the only way you have a chance versus cs zons if you don't plan on stacking plus mass sorb.
Learning curve is almost flat.
Step one: Bite the bastard;
Step two: run away and switch to dweb;
Step three: switch back to shield/weap or 2h and
Step four: go back in and melee them to make death faster or run away if you never really had a chance due to lifetap/they tele too fast/ bowazons with knockback and you don't feel like tanking.
The thing with this build is that it's very simple to learn. It also eliminated alot of pesky scenarios.
PnB necs are alot easier with this build. Can't get the nec? Get the golem.
Sorcs that will probably only slip up once? Just bite them once and dodge their attacks. I have yet to meet a sorc with such godly life that she will not have to chase you down eventually b4 she dies.
Some smiters do have massive poison res so it's futile if they have that and lifetap anyway.
And the last thing about rabies is most people end up asking: 'What the hell just killed me?'
Then you can make up whatever lie you want or tell them the truth, your choice.
@Legion: You are still thinking in terms of melee here man.
With this build, all you have to do is hit once and since most decent wolves have in excess of 4k life, you will tank more smites than you think. Ar does the rest and then you run away.:badteeth:
LeegionOnEast
17-08-2006, 22:54
I don't run away.
Thats why when I remade as a Vita wolf, I made Pure Fury. 30k+ AR and I'm not even level80.
People don't like when you just bite and run away. Instead of being spammed with "noob", I simply get in their face and Fury their asses. Only the better zealers stand a chance, because if they have godly defence and Life Tap, I don't hit them enough to race the life gain.
People dont like it when us rabie/fury wolf's bite and run away?
Why should we care if someone cry's "oh you bit me with rabie's and ran wah wah wah"
Rabie's just simply give's us another option too do thing's a Pure fury wolf cant , and if that mean's biting and running so be it.
LeegionOnEast
18-08-2006, 04:16
People dont like it when us rabie/fury wolf's bite and run away?
Why should we care if someone cry's "oh you bit me with rabie's and ran wah wah wah"
Rabie's just simply give's us another option too do thing's a Pure fury wolf cant , and if that mean's biting and running so be it.
In my opinion, its cowardly.
Just my opinion though. It's a viable stategy, but I find it to be the equivalent of punching someone in the face at a bar, and running so you won't get your butt kicked.
remsy, thanks for the reply. i'm going to give the build a try.
*add 1 more wolf to the west*
stupid question from me:
if i play europe ladder, i should go oak or wolf then ? or maybe 10wolf 10oak ? does it make any sense?
It's all in your personal preference if you want more attack rating max werewolf if you want an extra life boost use oak but , keep in mind oak sage can be a liability. But id suggest at least 1 point in oak sage.
My wolf has max Werewolf and only 1 in oak but the oak sage hit's skill lvl 15 with item's and battle command.
you mean sometimes i DONT WANT to use oak ? i saw people here say baba will heal by hitting him ect... but is this so bit disadvantage to just DONT use it ?
if thats true, vs which chars i shouldnt use oak ?
and also, is that true:
max ww is better vs zealers, bvbs, smiters
max oak is better vs everything else
?
thanks.
I meant oak sage can be a liability when it die's because your life will drop.
The only thing i can see leachin off oak is if a smiter get;s lucky and life tap's it.
Barb will not leach off oak sage unless he uses a life tap wand.
More ar is alway's better vs high def char's.
With a lvl 15 oak my wolf hit's 8.3k hp and when i tested some one's max oak i hit 9.8k.
Id at least put a few point's in oak sage.
If I ever hit level 92, I'm putting a point in oak sage.
But you shouldn't rely on it as when it dies, your life drops very noticeably.
Also all pallies that tap will hit it and activate lifetap well before they even hit you.
Don't rely on oak is my point, but it's nice to have.
My record with ww barbs is 100%. With practice, you'll be glad it's a ww barb you're dueling.
Hey rem, long time no see.
To get to the point: You are 100% vs WW Barbs? Are you 100% sure that you are correct. Remind me if I'm wrong but you seem to have lost to my Barb and he had no charms on minus the Anni and Torch.
Also, add something about HF/HS or HF or HS auradins becuase your gonna duel him when Ladder resets.
EDIT: What do you do vs Triangle Whirl and Widowmaker?
inkanddagger
18-08-2006, 22:20
Hey rem, long time no see.
To get to the point: You are 100% vs WW Barbs? Are you 100% sure that you are correct. Remind me if I'm wrong but you seem to have lost to my Barb and he had no charms on minus the Anni and Torch.
Also, add something about HF/HS or HF or HS auradins becuase your gonna duel him when Ladder resets.
EDIT: What do you do vs Triangle Whirl and Widowmaker?
If your oak dies and you resummon it, your life base re-increases, so if you resummon multiple times in a duel you will still have more life overall than if you just let it get hit once then let it go. it can be a distraction in hell, a meat shield for foh and bone spirits, and a tank in nightmare difficulty.
Maybe a f/r should focus on something like balancing rabies with venom damage to allow stack, or on having a short timer on rabies instead of a longer timer with more damage. just a suggestion.
Well, knowing that a Druid's FCR is very low, while you are casting the Oak, the Barb can just WW you or in other cases, shoot arrows at you and KB you. And also, Oak is just kinda nothing in duels because he doesn't sack on you when you run, thus, an Oak doesn't become a tank.
inkanddagger
18-08-2006, 22:51
Well, knowing that a Druid's FCR is very low, while you are casting the Oak, the Barb can just WW you or in other cases, shoot arrows at you and KB you. And also, Oak is just kinda nothing in duels because he doesn't sack on you when you run, thus, an Oak doesn't become a tank.
basically, someone needs to watch me duel a ww barb in nm difficulty, or kiba needs to record it for me or something. you summon it ON TOP of yourself. No barb can possibly stay on you fast enough to where you can't resummon it at least a few times. forti + trangs is a very nice fcr in wolf form anyway.
Also, you don't run vs melee oriented people. How stupid do you have to be to RUN into a duel with a barb, or into a stream of arrows, effectively reducing your block and defense by a third? you walk, summoning oak CONSTANTLY IN FRONT OF YOU, and then right on top of you when they start to attack you.
so sometimes its better t o DONT EVEN CAST OAK ?
inkanddagger
18-08-2006, 23:02
so sometimes its better t o DONT EVEN CAST OAK ?
It is ALWAYS BETTER TO CAST OAK. Period.
It is ALWAYS BETTER TO CAST OAK. Period.
I've found that when I was dueling barbs that have high leech, it actually worked better for me not to use oak, b/c he would just refill his life everytime he WW'd over it. Is there a strategy to prevent this?
i see here baba/smite can drain life ect ect...
but if its ALWAYS better to cast oak, so what are his disadvantages ? is lv15 oak somehow better than lv35 ?
you write those things about oak, but i think its still better to have HIGH level oak than low and its still better to cast oak than not to cast it. right ?
inkanddagger
19-08-2006, 00:16
i see here baba/smite can drain life ect ect...
but if its ALWAYS better to cast oak, so what are his disadvantages ? is lv15 oak somehow better than lv35 ?
you write those things about oak, but i think its still better to have HIGH level oak than low and its still better to cast oak than not to cast it. right ?
Well, this isn't my guide, and I haven't written one because I don't want to overinflate the market.
Anyhoo - In my personal opinion, I think the most intelligent way to build a fury/rabies hybrid is to first build a fury druid - max lycanthropy, max werewolf, max oak sage, and max fury. Then proceed to tweak rabies with it's synergy - 6 into creeper and the rest into the skill seems to yield the best results. Anyway, you should have about 25-30k rabies damage or so on your monarch/dweb switch instead of 70k, but 30k rabies with that much -res will kill the people who were going to die from rabies just as effectively as 70k anyway. The people who aren't going to die from rabies aren't going to die from it no matter how much you have - stacked res barbarians with a high life base, some smiters, most fury druids with stacked res, are the people you need to have maxed oak and maxed werewolf for.
Hey rem, long time no see.
To get to the point: You are 100% vs WW Barbs? Are you 100% sure that you are correct. Remind me if I'm wrong but you seem to have lost to my Barb and he had no charms on minus the Anni and Torch.
Also, add something about HF/HS or HF or HS auradins becuase your gonna duel him when Ladder resets.
EDIT: What do you do vs Triangle Whirl and Widowmaker?
Remember that you never actually dueled para.
You had already sold off the charms for your noob barb so we couldn't duel anymore:wink3:
The pathetic wolf that dueled against you was fangz and he did that shady trick where he stood in the corner of the map so you had to stop wwing.
Infact, because of guys like you I made para.
Like I told you b4, a pure auradin has no chance. An aurading with smite has a better chance but not that much more since we both can simply run away and still be killing each other.
As for the triangle, that's not even a factor.
I now use ebotdz so range doesn't factor into it and if they can hit me, I can hit them. Triangle or not. If the barb has low ar, I even have the luxury of chasing them to bite them instead of shift + rabies bite
It is ALWAYS BETTER TO CAST OAK. Period.
How can you say this man?:shocked:
You just gave a smiter an easier chance to cast life tap.
You just compounded your problems versus a cs zon.
You just gave the zealot full life back.
Chain lightning anyone?
Bite the hell out of it as a rabies wolf and you can rabies the other druid when the sage flees back to the druids side.
There are many scenarios where oak is not wanted.
EDIT: And you should have almost 50k rabies not 30k rabies if you plan on making a serious hybrid. That way it can work fast enough versus high res smiters that use lifetap
basically, someone needs to watch me duel a ww barb in nm difficulty, or kiba needs to record it for me or something. you summon it ON TOP of yourself. No barb can possibly stay on you fast enough to where you can't resummon it at least a few times. forti + trangs is a very nice fcr in wolf form anyway.
Also, you don't run vs melee oriented people. How stupid do you have to be to RUN into a duel with a barb, or into a stream of arrows, effectively reducing your block and defense by a third? you walk, summoning oak CONSTANTLY IN FRONT OF YOU, and then right on top of you when they start to attack you.
Oak moves dude, it doesn't stay in one spot. Also, are you just gonna stay in one spot anyways so that you are sitting duck? You need to move to beat a barb and an Oak won't stay on top of you forever.
Remember that you never actually dueled para.
You had already sold off the charms for your noob barb so we couldn't duel anymore
The pathetic wolf that dueled against you was fangz and he did that shady trick where he stood in the corner of the map so you had to stop wwing.
Infact, because of guys like you I made para.
Like I told you b4, a pure auradin has no chance. An aurading with smite has a better chance but not that much more since we both can simply run away and still be killing each other.
As for the triangle, that's not even a factor.
I now use ebotdz so range doesn't factor into it and if they can hit me, I can hit them. Triangle or not. If the barb has low ar, I even have the luxury of chasing them to bite them instead of shift + rabies bite
Para?
Whos Fangz?
I never sold my charms, I still have them(Anni + Torch).
I'm just waiting for NL so I can get 32020's.
How does an Auradin have no chance? Convic+Charge+Holy Fire lvl +++++ is God. You can't negate that unless you have Sorb and 75+ Fire res. Also, the point of an Auradin is to not get Hit so Rabies is out of the question.
inkanddagger
19-08-2006, 04:22
Oak moves dude, it doesn't stay in one spot. Also, are you just gonna stay in one spot anyways so that you are sitting duck? You need to move to beat a barb and an Oak won't stay on top of you forever.
.
this is why you constantly resummon during a duel vs a ww barb. and no you don't need to move to beat a barb, unless he is shooting arrows at you - you need to hit shift and stay the hell where you are 8/10 of the time.
You just gave a smiter an easier chance to cast life tap. OR YOU GAVE YOURSELF A CHANCE TO HIT AN IDIOT CHARGING SOMETHING THAT YOU JUST PLACED DIRECTLY BEHIND YOU AND THEN RESUMMONED AWAY AS THE SMITER GOT WITHIN YOUR RANGE.
You just compounded your problems versus a cs zon. HOW? BY GIVING YUOURSELF MORE LIFE TO TANK THEIR INSANE DAMAGE? EXPLAIN THIS STATEMENT.
You just gave the zealot full life back. SO DUEL THEM IN NIGHTMARE?
Chain lightning anyone? NEXDELAY ANYONE?
Bite the hell out of it as a rabies wolf and you can rabies the other druid when the sage flees back to the druids side. NOT IF YOU RESUMMON YOUR OAK, DUH.
You place a lot of faith in resummoning and this isn't at all practical and was one of the reasons I play melee not caster. If I had wanted to worry about casting over and over again, there are other characters for this.
CS strikes one target and then 3 bolts spread out from that target. Oak sage will always wander over to the opponent to get destroyed and it takes only 1 poke and it's dead before you got to benefit and the cszon is already attacking you before you've reached her.
Why do you duel in nightmare?...
Is nexdelay some code or something man?
See my point about casting things over and over again in a melee game.
inkanddagger
19-08-2006, 10:32
not casting and casting too much are both equally stupid.
if you can recast far away while dueling casters, do it, if you can can cast in front to hide yourself, do it. if it is going to get tapped dont do it.
nexdelay means chain lighting wont do any damage circling between your targets.
all legit melee leagues on west and east are always hosted in nm. also all pk games. (*druidpk/palapk/babapk)
Interesting. This a nl thing or a ladder thing or both?
I'd like to join a league and see what's up.
inkanddagger
19-08-2006, 16:29
palapknation and civic city both have ladder i think.
LeegionOnEast
19-08-2006, 16:45
remsy, do you even duel? I've tried your tactics in games, and they don't work.
Auradins smack you around. Charge and Smite stun and even with my 90% FHR Wolf, I get locked up sometimes. The only thing allowing you to tank is Oak. It actually sometimes helps to have the Oak, they misclick and charge the Oak or a Wolf and then you have a chance to attack them. I'm sorry, but I have a Pure Fury druid and even when I'm running with a eBOTDGPA, I can't reach the Auradin in time. They charge around and then hit me for a fatal blow when the time comes. Hell, I stack resists against them with Aldurs and a Sanctuary Troll Nest they still are too fast to be caught.
I doubt you are 100% against WW Barbs. Good WW Barbs will teleport near you and whirl through you, then teleport to another spot and whirl through you. Even with shift+Fury, it is nearly impossible to deal enough damage to them because you will constantly be stuck in block or hit recovery animation, and they can teleport away, causing you to walk towards them into another teleport+whirlwind.
Leegion... so do you suggest investing in ww or in oak ?
sry, but that question still tortures me.
LeegionOnEast
20-08-2006, 06:16
That's why I went Pure Fury. You need AR, but you also need life. Rabies/Fury has a second way to kill, but lacks the AR to hit enough and the life to last long enough.
HuggieTheBear
20-08-2006, 06:59
Auradins are mad easy you just need to cheeseball them with stacked resist and a sheild with max block and they wont ever win.
remsy, do you even duel? I've tried your tactics in games, and they don't work.
Auradins smack you around. Charge and Smite stun and even with my 90% FHR Wolf, I get locked up sometimes. The only thing allowing you to tank is Oak. It actually sometimes helps to have the Oak, they misclick and charge the Oak or a Wolf and then you have a chance to attack them. I'm sorry, but I have a Pure Fury druid and even when I'm running with a eBOTDGPA, I can't reach the Auradin in time. They charge around and then hit me for a fatal blow when the time comes. Hell, I stack resists against them with Aldurs and a Sanctuary Troll Nest they still are too fast to be caught.
I doubt you are 100% against WW Barbs. Good WW Barbs will teleport near you and whirl through you, then teleport to another spot and whirl through you. Even with shift+Fury, it is nearly impossible to deal enough damage to them because you will constantly be stuck in block or hit recovery animation, and they can teleport away, causing you to walk towards them into another teleport+whirlwind.
Auradins smack you around?:shocked:
I have low life for a werewolf druid and auradins only destroy me when I have on my pure melee setup which means -res. As soon as I put on my res gear, I simply bite them and turn their game back on them. I run away instead and stop every once in a while and shift+fury to counter desynch charging.
And are you a hybrid wolf?
You sound like you aren't from your description of duels versus ww barbs.
Biting a barb is no prob at all if they use tele as they aren't wwing when they teleport onto you. Then run away and switch and then shift and fury. You can tank away and chip their life with fury while rabies is killing them anyway.
And I just noticed something.
Why are you running around with your two-hander when you're dueling an auradin?
Charge is a melee attack. If you can't block, it hits every time. I think you can do the math. Change your tactics my friend.
And you're running a pure fury wolf. This guide has nothing to do with pure fury wolves. Go to the other guide for that as tactic are very different.
By hybridizing, you overcome problems that pure melee wolves sometimes face but you will always lose out in pure melee to a comparable melee character as you aren't built to purely melee.
Going fully melee means using guillame's face, instead of jalals when I duel olwe.
He is almost a replica of my wolf except he has more life since he uses oak and uses guillame's and fort as he's about melee damage. He beats me alot since I use enigma and jalals.
But if I decide to cheat and bite him...I will always win.
Once again, do not use my guide to compare pure melee tactics.
EDIT: And legion, what are you talking about with the ar thing?
I have 20k ar with dual ravens and highlords and 29k ar with 1 raven, 1 angelic ring and the ammy.
Don't give bad advice to newer players about things you haven't even tried out.
Darksteel
21-08-2006, 05:36
What set-up do u use against smiters?
At first I was thinking of going ebotdgpa and shaft but if I did that I'd have to pump my str to use that without enigma.
What set-up do u use against smiters?
At first I was thinking of going ebotdgpa and shaft but if I did that I'd have to pump my str to use that without enigma.
Personally against smiters I use shaftstop and eth botd gpa. It usually works pretty well. Also use the terrain to your advantage. Find puddles and trees and things where you can run around and the range 5 will help you out.
Would you need to up your strength for the shaftstop or for ebotdgpa?
for the shaftstop.
I think I have like 25 str when naked. And you wouldn't need to put up your str olwe since you use fort already and can wear your gear.
A fort wolf can use shaft no prob but an enigma wolf will have to get creative
LeegionOnEast
21-08-2006, 14:21
Auradins smack you around?:shocked:
I have low life for a werewolf druid and auradins only destroy me when I have on my pure melee setup which means -res. As soon as I put on my res gear, I simply bite them and turn their game back on them. I run away instead and stop every once in a while and shift+fury to counter desynch charging.
And are you a hybrid wolf?
You sound like you aren't from your description of duels versus ww barbs.
Biting a barb is no prob at all if they use tele as they aren't wwing when they teleport onto you. Then run away and switch and then shift and fury. You can tank away and chip their life with fury while rabies is killing them anyway.
And I just noticed something.
Why are you running around with your two-hander when you're dueling an auradin?
Charge is a melee attack. If you can't block, it hits every time. I think you can do the math. Change your tactics my friend.
And you're running a pure fury wolf. This guide has nothing to do with pure fury wolves. Go to the other guide for that as tactic are very different.
By hybridizing, you overcome problems that pure melee wolves sometimes face but you will always lose out in pure melee to a comparable melee character as you aren't built to purely melee.
Going fully melee means using guillame's face, instead of jalals when I duel olwe.
He is almost a replica of my wolf except he has more life since he uses oak and uses guillame's and fort as he's about melee damage. He beats me alot since I use enigma and jalals.
But if I decide to cheat and bite him...I will always win.
Once again, do not use my guide to compare pure melee tactics.
EDIT: And legion, what are you talking about with the ar thing?
I have 20k ar with dual ravens and highlords and 29k ar with 1 raven, 1 angelic ring and the ammy.
Don't give bad advice to newer players about things you haven't even tried out.
I don't understand how 20k AR hits anything. Even my 32k AR doesn't hit Zealots enough for me to race their Life Tap.
When Auradin's smite, I use eBOTDGPA. I tried the Troll Nest + eBOTDZ + Aldurs approach, but that still didn't work. They charge to fast to catch, how do you hit them with Rabies?
inkanddagger
21-08-2006, 15:35
I don't understand how 20k AR hits anything. Even my 32k AR doesn't hit Zealots enough for me to race their Life Tap.
When Auradin's smite, I use eBOTDGPA. I tried the Troll Nest + eBOTDZ + Aldurs approach, but that still didn't work. They charge to fast to catch, how do you hit them with Rabies?
I used to hit my friend mariusa's 70k defense defiant smiter pretty easily with 17.5k ar. attack on the grid ftw!
anyways - excessive attr is crap compared to deadly strike - also, from in game obeservation, if you land a critical hit, you will land the next hit successively. It seems to be more important to do a lot of damage to hit more rather than having a high atr base. strange but true.
I don't understand how 20k AR hits anything. Even my 32k AR doesn't hit Zealots enough for me to race their Life Tap.
When Auradin's smite, I use eBOTDGPA. I tried the Troll Nest + eBOTDZ + Aldurs approach, but that still didn't work. They charge to fast to catch, how do you hit them with Rabies?
You can hit zealots with even 16k ar man, I don' know what you were doing, maybe using your cta or something.
And about racing lifetap, that's an excercise in futility.
From what I've seen it's totally random. Sometimes it works and sometimes you just give them their life back no matter what you do.
Only way I usually kill those guys is if my weapon happens to do its max damage with deadly strike activated i.e. 1 hit ko.
Most pallies don't have the life to take that.
LeegionOnEast
21-08-2006, 20:05
You can hit zealots with even 16k ar man, I don' know what you were doing, maybe using your cta or something.
And about racing lifetap, that's an excercise in futility.
From what I've seen it's totally random. Sometimes it works and sometimes you just give them their life back no matter what you do.
Only way I usually kill those guys is if my weapon happens to do its max damage with deadly strike activated i.e. 1 hit ko.
Most pallies don't have the life to take that.
Thats what I do alot too. I have to one-hit kill or quickly 2 hit-kill.
You seriously hit zealots with that AR? I need to see this.
Darksteel
21-08-2006, 22:58
for the shaftstop.
I think I have like 25 str when naked. And you wouldn't need to put up your str olwe since you use fort already and can wear your gear.
A fort wolf can use shaft no prob but an enigma wolf will have to get creative
How can u have 25 str when naked and be able to use ebotdgpa without an enigma? I was planning on going the vita route but I really don't see how this is possible.
gp eBotd vs eTombReaver 3s
what do you think? i cant afford both... which one is better ? i have ba ebotd already.
get the eth botd gpa.
I use tombreaver for 2 reasons. I went with no oak sage. This means a life disadvantage.
I needed all the points I could get in vita so low str with my only option.
But I was gonna need str for gear, so enigma solved that problem.
But by using enigma, I lost out on variations in gear that give resistance easily like simply putting on a coh when sorcs came into the game.
Tombreaver solved that problem quite handily didn't it?
Gpa has a higher range, tombreaver is a frame faster. Those are the main differences. And Gpa does alot more damage at it's best. But I don't need that much damage since rabies does a large part of that.
LeegionOnEast
22-08-2006, 06:03
I love GPA. The range will help against Sorcs and Hammerdins ALOT. Plus, it's a WHOLE LOT cheaper.
Remsy, we should duel after the reset. After I get all the kinks out of my Vita-Fury Wolf, I might make a guide. That'll be in a couple months atleast. I'll give it a sick name too, so I won't be copying you.
Then, when ladder resets, yo should duel my pimped out WW Barb and Ghost Sin.
I will be screaming out DIE MORE!! you mean?
And what about the auradin you were bragging about?
LeegionOnEast
22-08-2006, 13:42
I will be screaming out DIE MORE!! you mean?
And what about the auradin you were bragging about?
Noooo. That was someone else's in a pubby game I was in with my friend.
Die more? We'll see....
I'd love to duel that Ghost Sin roomba, I've yet to find a good on to duel.
I see that the vita rabies/ fury Hybrid is focused on PvP, but how does it do for PvM? I found out the hard way that a Lightening Javazon does not do well against those LI monsters in NM :(
i have 29k rabies atm and it sucks at pvm (but i dont have rbf death's web and 4rbf shield on switch...). im not an expert, but i think pure Fury will be much better.
What is unrealistic is trying to use rabies in pvm.
And this isn't a pvm guide.
PLEASE!!!!
Stop giving out wrong opinions or opinions that have nothing to do with the guide.
i answered the question.
the question is about your guide.
whats the problem then ?
Answered the question?
I'm talking about your unproductive advice.
This guide is there to prove that a hybrid wolf makes things easier in PVP
in certain scenarios.
And this is a method to build them. How will saying that one build is better than another help anyone, especially when the method of comparison isn't even related to the guide?
Darksteel
22-08-2006, 23:05
Remsy do u recommend I pump my str then so I can use ebotdgpa and shaftstop against smiters?
remsy he asked question about your guide ! EVERY question about this guide should be asked in this topic. doesnt matter is it about pvp/pvm/mf/ls/rh/ect.
but maybe im wrong, ask the moderator where should someone post questions about 'your' build dru.
i hope you understant that now...
Is anyone mod gonna sticky this Thread yet , has lot of good info in the guide itself and all the debate's.
Darksteel
23-08-2006, 06:12
Elohim can you answer my question? I really wanna make a vita wolfy but I see no way to use shaft and ebotdgpa at the same time without pumping str.
Make a vita druid using fortitude as the basis instead of enigma. That way you have the str to switch out anyway.
And no, never pump str, calculate out the str you will need with your final gear and make-do until you get to the level where you can wear everything.
And botd gpa uses less str than tombreaver btw.
Darksteel
23-08-2006, 21:17
Thanks for the advice, makes sense now that I think of it. Now I just gotta work on my resists =(
I only asked if this build was capable in PvM, since I usually do not PvP. I have been playing this game for a while and have not worked around the druid skills and wanted to try something different. All your help is appreciated.
Thank you
John B.
Yeah, rabies isn't a pvm skill at all if you want to do anything in hell.Only useful for stopping monster heal and level 1 rabies is good enough for that.
But it shines in pvp.
TheBassman
25-08-2006, 02:09
For big packs rabies is incredible, it will infect all the enemies as they come towards you. It shines in PvP but it does in PvM aswell.
~LesC
naturebunns
23-09-2006, 11:23
well
I managed to duel this druid last night
couldn't beat my rabies druid, but did manage to beat my fc druid some when using ravens
not too bad
I beat your rabies druid a couple of times but 10-2 isn't much to brag about...
naturebunns
23-09-2006, 20:27
I beat your rabies druid a couple of times but 10-2 isn't much to brag about...
yeah, you owned me the few times I tried a 2 handed weapon
Lol, and we both ruined that barbs day.
Then Pheyd had some fun with us.
naturebunns
23-09-2006, 22:35
lol, rem, you missed the real fun
the loudmouth smiter in that game, I brought my pally and owned every single character on his account for like 2 hours
he just didn't give up
Pheyd is a puttytat, ez ;)
the boss
29-10-2006, 08:03
hey is it possible to just bite them with rabies using grief pb? i has venom and it has -20 to -25% poison enemy resists so that may work out?
hey is it possible to just bite them with rabies using grief pb? i has venom and it has -20 to -25% poison enemy resists so that may work out?
-25% p.resist is fine, however lets say your opponent has 101% poison resist in hell..
After reducing his poison resist, he still has 76% p.resist, therefore he still has max poison resist..
Most people bite with their main weapon and make a weapon switch to deathweb and 4Xpoisonfacet monarch and switch back, by doing this u can reduce your opponent p.resist by at least 70%..
i hope this will help u a little :wink2:
Warmongers
29-10-2006, 13:07
Hi there - sorry to spam up your guide's thread, but what do you think of these stats/gear for a max lycanthropy/werewolf/fury/rabies/creeper wolf with the rest of the points into oak sage and none into spirit wolf?
164 str (39 from anni and torch, 20 from jalal's so I can use SS wearing fort)
199 dex at level 92 for max block with the dex bonus from my charms (at level 92 with Eld stormshield)
325 vit (using 30/15 verdungo's)
20 energy
Shael Jalal's
Fort
GriefPB/Eld SS and Tomb Reaver on switch for casters and druids
31/15 Verdungo's
2 20/230+ Raven or Angelic's
Highlord's/Angelic's
Goreriders or resist boots
Dracul's grasp or Trang-Oul's gloves
Is this any good, or do I need to use enigma and have much lower base str (base is 105 without enigma) to be able to have over 5.3k life in wolf form without oak sage or BO? That's my main question, really.
The charms will be 7 SS grand charms with 30 or more life and 2 12 %FHR SS grand charms. The rest will either be 18-20 life sc's or 4-5 resist/17-20 life sc's when I get rich enough, and also 2-4 4-5 resist/5%fhr sc's depending on whether I'm wearing verdungo's or not, so I can hit 86% fhr at all times with shael jalal's.
Do you think that this gear/stat distribution will have me at over 5.5k life, or will it be lower without enigma? Also, what would be my rabies damage without a BO prebuff (level 38 rabies/creeper)? Would it be at least 30k, or would I need a level 41 rabies/creeper to reach that?
One last question: are they any known duped 10max/ar/lifers or SS GC's with 30 life and above, or 12%FHR, or are all of them currently unpoofable (legit, unduped)?
Thanks ^^;
HuggieTheBear
30-10-2006, 14:45
One last question: are they any known duped 10max/ar/lifers or SS GC's with 30 life and above, or 12%FHR, or are all of them currently unpoofable (legit, unduped)?
Thanks ^^;
To my knowledge no one has ever duped those charms. Mainly because 3/20/20's are far better in the life department. So, if someone traded me one of those charms I wouldn't even worry about it poofing. :rolleyes:
naturebunns
30-10-2006, 18:33
To my knowledge no one has ever duped those charms. Mainly because 3/20/20's are far better in the life department. So, if someone traded me one of those charms I wouldn't even worry about it poofing. :rolleyes:
Not entirely true
I've had 44 and 45 life shapeshifting gc's poof on me before on ladder
Shael Jalal's
Fort
GriefPB/Eld SS and Tomb Reaver on switch for casters and druids
31/15 Verdungo's
2 20/230+ Raven or Angelic's
Highlord's/Angelic's
Goreriders or resist boots
Dracul's grasp or Trang-Oul's gloves
Your gear setup looks good although id find somthin better then eld too put in your ss , duel stat 9str/9dex +other mods or +9dex/ ed% jewels work great in Stormshield for a werewolf imo.
more then likely you will end up usin gore riders most of the time over tri res boots for the performance factor.
To my knowledge no one has ever duped those charms. Mainly because 3/20/20's are far better in the life department. So, if someone traded me one of those charms I wouldn't even worry about it poofing.
No way too tell what is duped nowadays since now it seems like everyone and there grandmother can dupe every items on char including gold and el runes.
HuggieTheBear
01-11-2006, 00:31
Not entirely true
I've had 44 and 45 life shapeshifting gc's poof on me before on ladder
Errggg.. This is why I have to pay more attention to what people write. I meant 10max/ar/lifers have never been duped. SS lifers (which I didn't see he had mentioned) are mass duped like any other skill / lifer.
The fact is the best charms for wolf is 9 X 45 life ss charms (Yes there better than 3/20/20's and 10max/ar/lifers). Now you also have to include 3/20/20's with the 9 X 45 lifers.
Well good luck to you on your wolf.
P.S. If anyone plays Usaeast hardcore give me a pm I just started with a fireclaws druid.
why even bother with strategies vs bowazons? werewolfs cannot win this duel no matter what.
naturebunns
20-11-2006, 22:47
why even bother with strategies vs bowazons? werewolfs cannot win this duel no matter what.
What the hell are you talking about?
My rabies druid rapes all but the fastest of speedazons, and even then, I can usually catch them (I have a lot of r/w, and sometimes it's wise to swap nigma for your bramble (for a pure rabies anyways))
My fireclaw bear druid rapes bowazons (simply because he's a tank)
I don't know where you come off with this quote
Only bow zons that a Fury / rabie wolf or werebear will have trouble vs is a zon with 30x 3% frw sc's or if she is bein bm and usin wizz+08valk with enigma.....
sign another bm this bm that dueler. if you dont let bowzons use kb and run walk+ tp there is no way the build will even work, same like how people ask you to fight in human form on a ww druid
face it you cant beat a good bowazon with kb who runs faster than you.
you dont even need 1.08 stuff or bug items to get a decent tele with a zon just use wizardspike + spirit on switch the str from engima wll let you have the str to use it, and saying a ama using tp is being bm is like calling every build out there relies on enigma bm.
What the hell are you talking about?
My rabies druid rapes all but the fastest of speedazons, and even then, I can usually catch them (I have a lot of r/w, and sometimes it's wise to swap nigma for your bramble (for a pure rabies anyways))
My fireclaw bear druid rapes bowazons (simply because he's a tank)
I don't know where you come off with this quote
you dont even know what your talking about here, there is no way a melee druid will catch a bowazon. you will eat all the arrows you can take by chasing and getting kb left and right if you chase and if you dont your stuck walking while she is running.
you dont even know what your talking about here, there is no way a melee druid will catch a bowazon. you will eat all the arrows you can take by chasing and getting kb left and right if you chase and if you dont your stuck walking while she is running.
You sir have obviously never heard of a Fury/rabie wolf or a bear with frw from cats eye , nigma , and circlet with doom flash trick on switch?
And you are tellin us a 8k werewolf or bear with max dr and block is not gonna be able too tank enough arrows to at least make the zon run?
Lol dude your the one that dont know anything because all you do is make false bs claims yourself.
You sir have obviously never heard of a Fury/rabie wolf or a bear with frw from cats eye , nigma , and circlet with doom flash trick on switch?
And you are tellin us a 8k werewolf or bear with max dr and block is not gonna be able too tank enough arrows to at least make the zon run?
Lol dude your the one that dont know anything because all you do is make false bs claims yourself.
lol what realm? i got a poop pvm amazon on uw ladder try me out see if you can even touch me
Barnical
21-11-2006, 01:13
all bark no bite?
You sir, are retarded, do you really think wolfs are gonna run straight into your GAs? Lets try running in a circle around you, even if one does manage to get near us, we have 75% chance to block that incoming attack (assuming we start to walk), and if it is in the other 25%, it will do very little to a 7k-8k werewolf druid well built.
Also, if your talkin about BM, lets stack up 30 3% faster r/w charms, enigma,circ,cats eye, and doom to slow your "fast" zon down.
Not to mention wolves like kiba WILL have an etomb against bowzons, which makes it that much easier for us to hit you.
superjayson
21-11-2006, 01:18
all bark no bite?
Give him time to reply dude.
yes all that stuff about im a newbie, anyone on ladder got a wolf to try a poop zon out?
bobofuzzlymunky
21-11-2006, 01:33
Give him time to reply dude.
that was only a half hour later, you really do need to stop thinking kiba's life revolves around you. i love your post in the other sub-forum flaming kiba. lol. considering pvp penalty, max block, max dr, doom switch, and frw JUST sub-par to most amazons, i dont see how its very hard for a wolf to win. especially with a 5-range etomb reaver... after pvp penalty/max dr i believe 4k arrows do about 300 dmg, thats not alot considering only 1/4 will hit. its an even match if the zon manages to run enuff, my bowzons have only used fort/coh. i dont see the point of tele. ^_^ also, tp's are bm. lol... you dont NEED the tp to survive if your char is good enuff, ive never made a char that relied on them to fight... and comparing someone saying no tp's to no transforming is absolutely 300% ridiculous. maybe compare no druid-forming to no bows, and maybe we'll get close to a comparison... i think you blew this whole thing wayyyy out of proportion, kiba was just saying that any singular char is superior to another is wrong. kiba is pretty much my hero. he takes a character that most people hate, uses a build that most people dont use (most druid users make wind), and makes the character amazing. i try to make weird chars (although ww's arent that weird) but i never really manage to pull it off... Kiba + Disney= Werewolf ftw. :thumbsup:
edit- to clarify i was talking to jsyou in the beginning not you jayson =O
superjayson
21-11-2006, 01:42
awesome, I don't have to ***** slap you now ='(
Barnical
21-11-2006, 01:50
yes all that stuff about im a newbie, anyone on ladder got a wolf to try a poop zon out?
Unfortunately I put my flame on this kid in the other post he had up. But what he was saying was that he could trigger 'amp damage' from lacerator on switch, however, this contradicts what he said about having wiz on switch to tele faster. Against a pub dueler, you could accomplish, MAYBE, triggering an amp, and then switching back to wiz to tele faster, but against kiba, you will less than likely be able to pull that off.
Also, as said above this post, 30 3% faster r/w small charms, faster r/w circlet, enigma, cat's eye, +slowing from doomz on switch, 75% block, 7-10k life, damage reduction, and a 4or5 range tombreaver will make mince meat out of a bowazon. However, if it was a good bowazon with skill, then yeah you could say it'll be a good duel, but since he already called it a 'poopy' zon, I'm safely assuming its a crappy build pvm character.
He's very overconfident and has never dueled anyone with skill obviously, so I'm going to enjoy watching the wreckage on this bowazon.
bobofuzzlymunky
21-11-2006, 01:52
Unfortunately I put my flame on this kid in the other post he had up. But what he was saying was that he could trigger 'amp damage' from lacerator on switch, however, this contradicts what he said about having wiz on switch to tele faster. Against a pub dueler, you could accomplish, MAYBE, triggering an amp, and then switching back to wiz to tele faster, but against kiba, you will less than likely be able to pull that off.
Also, as said above this post, 30 3% faster r/w small charms, faster r/w circlet, enigma, cat's eye, +slowing from doomz on switch, 75% block, 7-10k life, damage reduction, and a 4or5 range tombreaver will make mince meat out of a bowazon. However, if it was a good bowazon with skill, then yeah you could say it'll be a good duel, but since he already called it a 'poopy' zon, I'm safely assuming its a crappy build pvm character.
He's very overconfident and has never dueled anyone with skill obviously, so I'm going to enjoy watching the wreckage on this bowazon.
tombs are 5 range. :thumbsup: i think we all need to settle down and just wait for a video of this fight... lolz.
edit- i want one from jsyou, showing his gear switches,etc. and his zon trying to run, throw lacerators, switch back to wizzy, tele and still manage to switch back and fire before kiba's 5range tomb wrecks you...and one from kiba's cakewalk. im assuming jsyou hasnt seen that video of kiba wrecking an hdin, a sin and a fire sorc all at once... that was a very pretty video. sexy. :badteeth:
Uchiha Sasuke
21-11-2006, 05:03
tombs are 5 range. :thumbsup: i think we all need to settle down and just wait for a video of this fight... lolz.
edit- i want one from jsyou, showing his gear switches,etc. and his zon trying to run, throw lacerators, switch back to wizzy, tele and still manage to switch back and fire before kiba's 5range tomb wrecks you...and one from kiba's cakewalk. im assuming jsyou hasnt seen that video of kiba wrecking an hdin, a sin and a fire sorc all at once... that was a very pretty video. sexy. :badteeth:
It's four range...
Unfortunately I put my flame on this kid in the other post he had up. But what he was saying was that he could trigger 'amp damage' from lacerator on switch, however, this contradicts what he said about having wiz on switch to tele faster. Against a pub dueler, you could accomplish, MAYBE, triggering an amp, and then switching back to wiz to tele faster, but against kiba, you will less than likely be able to pull that off.
Also, as said above this post, 30 3% faster r/w small charms, faster r/w circlet, enigma, cat's eye, +slowing from doomz on switch, 75% block, 7-10k life, damage reduction, and a 4or5 range tombreaver will make mince meat out of a bowazon. However, if it was a good bowazon with skill, then yeah you could say it'll be a good duel, but since he already called it a 'poopy' zon, I'm safely assuming its a crappy build pvm character.
He's very overconfident and has never dueled anyone with skill obviously, so I'm going to enjoy watching the wreckage on this bowazon.
I'm not taking sides here, but now you've contradicted yourself. How are you going to have any dr (except enigma) if you have your tomb out? And block?:shocked: Why use tomb? Ebotdz/SS would be better surely?
Also, 30 frw sc's? Does anyone keep these stashed? I thought most f/r used shape gc's.
I built remsy's wolf and I would say I beat a lot more pub zon's than what I got beaten by. It wasn't that hard, just run up to them and hit then with rabies, then chase and continue to hit with rabies. Rabies is a shorter attack so you can stay on their heels easily. But those were pub's, I'd imagine a well biult zon would prove to be a very good duel for a ww.
I sort of agree. Sorry I haven't heard every post here but I've read a few pages and posts that suggest using 2handed vs bowazons and such (at least I heard it a few times), and I dont think that's a cosure idea ><... knockback, poison, (some slow from arachnid)... this would make a tombreaver druid at the mercy of any godly bowazon, no offense :rolleyes: .
I agree with Mythos last response here though, you'd prolly want Ebotd/SS to make sure u have max block and dr, then nigma, aldurs boots, and a few sc's I'd say. If the zon as enigma and can tele away and keep firing, which I've seen some really fast ones do, even a very fast Fury, fireclaw etc druid can't keep up :P so although a lot of them a good fury/rabies druid would just teleport off the top and close the distance for an ez kill right away, there are a few bowazons that can hold their own :grin: . Sry, I just think its more of an even shot than some people make it seem
Usin 2 hand vs a bow zon is suicide >,<
I wouldnt recomend goin pure 2 hand vs any bow zon eth tomb or not hehe.
Summerfun
21-11-2006, 13:27
I dueld Stouts wolff a while back with my pub bowzone
20* 3/20/5frw
120/45 +30 frw
1.08 HL
and so on...
Even though i had very high frw he allways mannaged to catch me and infect with rabies.
But when i changed to Cleglaws and 1.08 sigards (slow and KB) i had a chance.
Without slow and KB now bowzone would ever winn vs a good wolf
You guys make me sad. Not because you have all these whacky ideas, but because none of you who make the claims are ever on my realm.
I've only had one bowazon beat me repetitively and that was because I allowed her to start two screens away and then had to go meet her.
And even this strategy doesn't always work against me and I run with 6k life usually since oak is gonna be dead.
Bowazons usually have less than a chance against wolves if the wolves aren't being stupid i.e. running at them with a two-hander.
Use a shield, use cat's eye and use enigma. I change my gores to aldurs boots and don't even need r/w charms. KB isn't even a factor here as I just summon more wolves and run in a zig zag.
And then all you need is one bite and even the godliest of zons has about 10 seconds to live.
stoutewolf
21-11-2006, 22:40
You guys make me sad. Not because you have all these whacky ideas, but because none of you who make the claims are ever on my realm.
I've only had one bowazon beat me repetitively and that was because I allowed her to start two screens away and then had to go meet her.
And even this strategy doesn't always work against me and I run with 6k life usually since oak is gonna be dead.
Bowazons usually have less than a chance against wolves if the wolves aren't being stupid i.e. running at them with a two-hander.
Use a shield, use cat's eye and use enigma. I change my gores to aldurs boots and don't even need r/w charms. KB isn't even a factor here as I just summon more wolves and run in a zig zag.
And then all you need is one bite and even the godliest of zons has about 10 seconds to live.
The godliest of zons, at the point of you rabieng her would switch to titans and a jewelrs monarch of deflection with 4 x 15 ias / 15 Resis Jewels and shove 5k Cs up your furry booty.
I dueled just such a zon today and that didn't save her so sorry.
naturebunns
22-11-2006, 00:30
CS zons are easy, as they're always tweaked out with Facets and rarely have great resists
if they Farcast, that's a different bag of worms, but of course cheaters arne't even worth discussing
Use a shield, use cat's eye and use enigma. I change my gores to aldurs boots and don't even need r/w charms. KB isn't even a factor here as I just summon more wolves and run in a zig zag.
yup 100% true its more then possible too catch bow zons when they are not usin nigma.just stack the gear you mentioned and maybe doom for the flash trick on switch
The ones that tele though, no way too catch a zon that teles too bumb **** egypt.
Me and Dennis were havin some fun so it kinda proves that werewolves can beat good bow zons when they are not usin nigma to tele away.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=G1tabFE8k-Y
*ps take note that id summon wolves in the ga path like remsy mentioned.
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