Blaming Video Games

[Module88]

The other thread brought this up, so props to Road. We've all heard the stories- people who blame video games and say that they saw X in a game so they thought it was ok or whatever. What do you guys think? Is that an acceptable excuse? Do you think it's true/probable? Is it an acceptable defense?

[Corneo]

Maybe for younger kids that are playing GTA games. But you have to ask yourself how did these kids get hold of these games? Parents too cheap to hire a baby sitter so they buy a $50 game hoping it would keep their kids out of trouble? I however don't think there is any acceptable excuse. Even at the age of 12, I understood what death meant.

PS: I advocate parents hit their kids more. :) This would keep kids out of trouble. Not beating a child, but spanking.

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

I saw a dog banging another dog so I want to be a pimp. I want to beat ho's, deal drugs and generally be scum of the earth. Dont' blame me, the dog made me do it.

[Module88]

I saw a dog banging another dog so I want to be a pimp. I want to beat ho's, deal drugs and generally be scum of the earth. Dont' blame me, the dog made me do it.

It works in the courts sometimes, believe it or not.

[Corneo]

I saw a dog banging another dog so I want to be a pimp. I want to beat ho's, deal drugs and generally be scum of the earth. Dont' blame me, the dog made me do it.

Hahah. One can also argue that they saw 24 and now want to hurt scums of the earth. Don't blame them. Blame Jack Bauer.

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

Sure, blame Jack. You don't even know Jack! Mine's a better comparison anyway. It offends the sensitive

[Talga Vasternich]

The other thread brought this up, so props to Road. We've all heard the stories- people who blame video games and say that they saw X in a game so they thought it was ok or whatever. What do you guys think? Is that an acceptable excuse? Do you think it's true/probable? Is it an acceptable defense?
To answer your questions in order:
I try not to, it keeps me out of trouble.
No.
Yes/yes.
Only for the truly stupid.

[Veilside]

games are an easy scapegoat, they're a lot more violent than films and the general public know absolutely nothing about them except what's written in the media. i think that if someone tries to use videogames as an excuse for commiting a crime they deserve castration via a rusty spoon, that'll soon make people stop. games CANNOT teach someone to handle and shoot a gun though they may desensitise someone to violence, especially if played at a very young age.

[bladesyz]

games are an easy scapegoat, they're a lot more violent than films and the general public know absolutely nothing about them except what's written in the media. i think that if someone tries to use videogames as an excuse for commiting a crime they deserve castration via a rusty spoon, that'll soon make people stop. games CANNOT teach someone to handle and shoot a gun though they may desensitise someone to violence, especially if played at a very young age.

Games are an easy scapegoat because there's no powerful lobby industry to defend video games.

If you made the same comment about movies or hip-hop music, you get a ton of celebrities coming out against it. Meanwhile, the only people coming out to defend video games are internet forumites and webcomic artists.

[Veilside]

Games are an easy scapegoat because there's no powerful lobby industry to defend video games.

If you made the same comment about movies or hip-hop music, you get a ton of celebrities coming out against it. Meanwhile, the only people coming out to defend video games are internet forumites and webcomic artists.

and the countless developing and distributing companies along with the vast majority of gaming fans.

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

i think that if someone tries to use videogames as an excuse for commiting a crime they deserve castration via a rusty spoon, that'll soon make people stop.
I'm so proud of you son, you've made your old man so happy. You'll grow up to make a fine evil conservative warmongering capitalist pig one day.:thumbsup:

[Veilside]

I'm so proud of you son, you've made your old man so happy. You'll grow up to make a fine evil conservative warmongering capitalist pig one day.:thumbsup:

oh man, killing the russians in No One Lives Forever 2 with napalm bullets that set them alight while they direct cries of "die you capitalist pig" at you is one of the greatest joys in videogaming. i have absolutely no problem with capitalists, and humans are as much subject to survival of the fittest as any other creature.

[SaroDarksbane]

Murder was around long before guns, games, or rap music.

But personal responsibility is out the window in today's world, so they have to blame their actions on something.

[Module88]

Murder was around long before guns, games, or rap music.

But personal responsibility is out the window in today's world, so they have to blame their actions on something.

But the arguement is that violent games increase violence in children and give them the impression that doing such things is ok. It's not that video games cause murder, but rather, they increase the amount of murders happening because they shape individuals to become more violent.

[bladesyz]

and the countless developing and distributing companies along with the vast majority of gaming fans.

when did Blizzard ever defend Take Two, for example?

Since when does the opinion of gaming fans matter?

[Veilside]

But the arguement is that violent games increase violence in children and give them the impression that doing such things is ok. It's not that video games cause murder, but rather, they increase the amount of murders happening because they shape individuals to become more violent.

hence why the ratings need to made legal requirements in the countries where they aren't already and why parents need to be held accountable for young children having access to these games.

[Module88]

hence why the ratings need to made legal requirements in the countries where they aren't already and why parents need to be held accountable for young children having access to these games.

So I wouldn't be play to play counterstrike until I was 18 or so? Lame.

[oscarmk1]

Hell no, that's just stupid, and for mentally challenged people if you ask me. Even at age 1 you can understand that death is well death...

[Veilside]

So I wouldn't be play to play counterstrike until I was 18 or so? Lame.

lame maybe but it'd help stop all those bloody moronic parents from milking the video games industry for their faults in raising their child. In england we have BBFC certificates on some games, it is illegal to sell an 18 rated game to anyone aged 18 or younger, so, if a parent chooses to buy that game for a 12 or 13 year old child, any resulting problems are entirely the parents fault.

[oscarmk1]

But the arguement is that violent games increase violence in children and give them the impression that doing such things is ok. It's not that video games cause murder, but rather, they increase the amount of murders happening because they shape individuals to become more violent.
Erm you do realize that doesn't make much sense right?, i mean they don't cause murder but they increase the murders ohh i wonder why.

[Module88]

lame maybe but it'd help stop all those bloody moronic parents from milking the video games industry for their faults in raising their child. In england we have BBFC certificates on some games, it is illegal to sell an 18 rated game to anyone aged 18 or younger, so, if a parent chooses to buy that game for a 12 or 13 year old child, any resulting problems are entirely the parents fault.

As opposed to a friend or uncle? A LOT of laws would stop moronic people. But should we enact all of them?

[Veilside]

As opposed to a friend or uncle? A LOT of laws would stop moronic people. But should we enact all of them?

the person that buys the game should be help responsible for giving it to someone that is not of the legal age. stop nitpicking :rolleyes:

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

i have absolutely no problem with capitalists, and humans are as much subject to survival of the fittest as any other creature.
So why do you disagree with me on so much? Arguing with me over everything out of spite because of my stance on Frenchy Frenchmen isn't much of a motivation.

[Veilside]

So why do you disagree with me on so much? Arguing with me over everything out of spite because of my stance on Frenchy Frenchmen isn't much of a motivation.

because i'm half french :wink3:

[Anakha1]

I think it's ridiculous. People who can't differentiate between real life and video games need medication and a padded room. People who don't know what is acceptable behaviour in a game and what is acceptable in real life are sociopaths and need to be locked away. Parents of children who go ape**** on a schoolmate because they happened to play GTA that morning and then scream bloody murder over all the violence in society need to ask themselves why they're too lazy to get off their asses and do some bloody parenting.

I think if you're already ****ed up enough to hit someone with a baseball bat for fun without knowing you shouldn't do it then a video game isn't going to make a difference.

[EliManning]

Well, just to play devil's advocate, if one were to borrow the same statistical models that are used to demonstrate the "correlation" between cell phone usage and auto accidents, I'm pretty sure one would find a much stronger link between video game playing and violence. I bet a lot more than .02% of violent offenders have played video games (.02% being the number of accidents in which cell phones were involved which was offered as indisputable proof of the dangers of cell phones in the other thread).

[Anakha1]

Correlation does not prove causation. Do video games make people violent or are violent people naturally attracted to video games?

[JayOh]

Hell no, that's just stupid, and for mentally challenged people if you ask me. Even at age 1 you can understand that death is well death... I would say you're exaggerating a bit there. I doubt that you or I would have been able to comprehend what death meant. The only visible thing a one year old would be able to realize about death is that. Person goes away and everyone is sad.


Murder was around long before guns, games, or rap music.

But personal responsibility is out the window in today's world, so they have to blame their actions on something.This is an excellent point. However I think what people are trying to argue is not that Video Games created murder but more or less that video games promote murder.


I think it's ridiculous. People who can't differentiate between real life and video games need medication and a padded room. People who don't know what is acceptable behaviour in a game and what is acceptable in real life are sociopaths and need to be locked away. Parents of children who go ape**** on a schoolmate because they happened to play GTA that morning and then scream bloody murder over all the violence in society need to ask themselves why they're too lazy to get off their asses and do some bloody parenting.

I think if you're already ****ed up enough to hit someone with a baseball bat for fun without knowing you shouldn't do it then a video game isn't going to make a difference. Anakha hits it right on the nose.

Video games do not cause violence. The only place that video games can be placed in the crosshairs is because there's now one more thing for a person that may be a little mentally ill to have to differentiate from reality.

The bottom line is that if you think that it's alright to take your dad's gun - run out to a road somewhere or go to someone's house - and point that gun at a person's face and think it's a game. You need not look any further at why you'd think this. It's not the video game. It's you.

Whether it's hereditary or because of the way you were raised - it doesn't matter. When someone goes out and cracks someone's skull with a tire iron and thinks that it's all make believe they should not be walking the streets.

If someone decides to blame video games in a murder trial to get out of it. Make sure they were or weren't sane and then either have them committed or thrown in jail.

For **** sake though, if parent's would stop trying to get their kids to behave by just giving them a gaming system and the first game they point to then the parent's shouldn't have the kid in their custody. Period. When a parent tries to say that their kid did this because they saw it in a video game and they're outraged. Have them fined or whatever for being stupid ****ing parents.

[Sokar Rostau]

If video games are a cause of violence why aren't the streets of Korea or Taiwan drenched in game fueled blood?

The late 80s was a period of high crime rates in the United States, but from the early 90s onwards crime, especially violent crime, has been in steady decline (despite what the media would have you believe). Video games didn't start to get popular until the early 90s when the systems to run them started to become affordable. As the games systems became more powerful, and even more affordable, the games themselves became more sophisticated, more lifelike and arguably more violent. Consider the difference in realism, and playstyle, between the original Escape from Castle Wolfenstein and almost all modern games of a similar genre. The level of violence has not significantly changed, though the level of realism certainly has. It is possible, therefore, to draw the conclusion that the rise in the popularity of video games has led to a decrease in crime and that, further, the more sophisticated and realistic games become the lower that crime rate will be.

Why? Probably because the people that got involved in crack cocaine (or whatever you want to blame the high crime rate of the 80s on) back then are more interested in staying at home and shooting pixels than going into the streets and shooting their peers.

[Dondrei]

It's very simple: we have a system of classification so that parents can decide what their children do and don't play based on content. If a game is intended for an adult audience it'll be classified thus and parents can stop their kids playing it if they want to, just like movies. It is the parent's responsibility to monitor what their children play and watch, not the government's.

Video games are an easy target because people have the prejudice that they are all intended for children (despite the fact that the last time I checked about 60% of the market for video games is adult in this country). Here in Australia there is no R-equivalent classification for games, if it's considered too violent or whatever they get censored or banned. It's an archaic system that needs updating but both sides of politics exploit it to score points with social conservatives and the Lazy Parents' Associations.

P.S. Do people ever blame kids playing Cowboys and Indians or Cops and Robbers for gun crime? That actually involves them running around with toy guns trying to kill each other, it's even closer to reality than a game.


Murder was around long before guns, games, or rap music.

I agree with where you're going but not the rationale you use to get there. Just because not all murders involve guns - to take your example - and just because there was murder before guns that doesn't mean that they don't contribute to the number of killings (I stress that I am not saying the converse; that they do).


Well, just to play devil's advocate, if one were to borrow the same statistical models that are used to demonstrate the "correlation" between cell phone usage and auto accidents, I'm pretty sure one would find a much stronger link between video game playing and violence. I bet a lot more than .02% of violent offenders have played video games (.02% being the number of accidents in which cell phones were involved which was offered as indisputable proof of the dangers of cell phones in the other thread).

You need to take a course in statistics.


If video games are a cause of violence why aren't the streets of Korea or Taiwan drenched in game fueled blood?

The late 80s was a period of high crime rates in the United States, but from the early 90s onwards crime, especially violent crime, has been in steady decline (despite what the media would have you believe). Video games didn't start to get popular until the early 90s when the systems to run them started to become affordable. As the games systems became more powerful, and even more affordable, the games themselves became more sophisticated, more lifelike and arguably more violent. Consider the difference in realism, and playstyle, between the original Escape from Castle Wolfenstein and almost all modern games of a similar genre. The level of violence has not significantly changed, though the level of realism certainly has. It is possible, therefore, to draw the conclusion that the rise in the popularity of video games has led to a decrease in crime and that, further, the more sophisticated and realistic games become the lower that crime rate will be.

Why? Probably because the people that got involved in crack cocaine (or whatever you want to blame the high crime rate of the 80s on) back then are more interested in staying at home and shooting pixels than going into the streets and shooting their peers.

Exactly. On that subject I think the decrease in violent crime was due to complex social factors which can be summed up crudely by saying increasing wealth --> less poor people --> less violent crime.

[Anakha1]

Video games made me try to kill people but it didn't work out. I clicked and clicked that damned mouse at people all day but none of them died.

[Dondrei]

I killed someone with a wigglestick once. Very slowly.

[Dawnmaster]

It works in the courts sometimes, believe it or not.

That's just because people are ************.

Just like that lady that sued some company that sells MicroWaveOvens because she put her cat in one to dry (and you can guess the rest)

I mean, she knew what an OVEN was, and a MicoWaveOVEN just speeds things up, so unless she used to put her cat into her old oven and got it out harmless, I see no reason why she should have put her cat into the MicroWaveOven.


Correlation does not prove causation. Do video games make people violent or are violent people naturally attracted to video games?

Well, I believe some people are more violent than others, and just like movies, alcohol, situations and games, one can react more violently than one normal would.
But I believe only at that time, it won't have any influence on later behaviour (unless there's something seriously wrong with you)

Normal people wouldn't bash into a school, kill a whole lot of people, only to blame it on some game/movie and declaring they wanted revenge for something.
That would be like: "I'm gonna start a war with swords, I got the idea in history class in elementary school." That's just plain dumb.

Extra: no offense to the Americans, but most of those weird stories usually occur there...
To the public here, it seems you can fool anyone with anything and get away with it easily over there.

[Dondrei]

That's just because people are ************.

What filtered word has twelve characters?


Just like that lady that sued some company that sells MicroWaveOvens because she put her cat in one to dry (and you can guess the rest)

I mean, she knew what an OVEN was, and a MicoWaveOVEN just speeds things up, so unless she used to put her cat into her old oven and got it out harmless, I see no reason why she should have put her cat into the MicroWaveOven.

The RSPCA might have something to say about putting a cat into any kind of oven...

[Veilside]

What filtered word has twelve characters?



The RSPCA might have something to say about putting a cat into any kind of oven...

members of the RSPCA care more about bloody animals than other human beings, silly buggers.

[Dondrei]

members of the RSPCA care more about bloody animals than other human beings, silly buggers.

Personally, it depends on the animal and the human in question.

[WildBerry]

What filtered word has twelve characters?


Surely there are multiples, but one all-time favourite would include a person who engages in a coitus with female with at least one labour past her. I'd imagine it's not the only one, though. In addition, since we're talking multiples, we're lacking a letter, so it really doesn't apply here - add to that the fact that the word doesn't really sit into the context. Beats me.

Come to think of it, English has so many monosyllables and five-letter words that a word of that magnitude gives me the puzzles. I wouldn't have any trouble guessing even 25-letter words in my first language.

Sorry for the filter-bending in advance. I was just speculating.

[Pitboss_2000]

First it was heavy metal, then movies, then games. Some people just need to grow a pair, and admit that they are lousy parents, or that their kid just happens to be a homicidal maniac.

[MadMachine]

I blame Durf for making me kill people.

[htotheh]

games cannot be blamed since all games have ratings, there's not an E rated game where you go around cutting people's head off
and if someone were to start blaming, it should be the parents that allow 13 year olds to play GTA

[Dondrei]

Surely there are multiples, but one all-time favourite would include a person who engages in a coitus with female with at least one labour past her. I'd imagine it's not the only one, though. In addition, since we're talking multiples, we're lacking a letter, so it really doesn't apply here - add to that the fact that the word doesn't really sit into the context. Beats me.

Come to think of it, English has so many monosyllables and five-letter words that a word of that magnitude gives me the puzzles. I wouldn't have any trouble guessing even 25-letter words in my first language.

Sorry for the filter-bending in advance. I was just speculating.

That was more or less my thinking. Also, doesn't the filter leave the non-swear half of the compound word intact?

Mother****er

Yep. The -er ending, too.

[TriggerHappy]

In America we have to blame something, usually something that can't defend itself is easiest, so people blame video games.

[Veilside]

games cannot be blamed since all games have ratings, there's not an E rated game where you go around cutting people's head off
and if someone were to start blaming, it should be the parents that allow 13 year olds to play GTA

all games might have ratings but those ratings are not enforced which means children have access to adult rated games.

[Dawnmaster]

To all the guys that are trying to figure out what 12-letter swearword I used:

Those are just 12 stars, to provoke the idea that there is a swearsequenze underneeth it. (kinda like the stars and lightnings etc when cartoons swear)

I couldn't think of an appropriate bad word, so I just made the impression there was a bad word.

[MadMachine]

To all the guys that are trying to figure out what 12-letter swearword I used:

Those are just 12 stars, to provoke the idea that there is a swearsequenze underneeth it. (kinda like the stars and lightnings etc when cartoons swear)

I couldn't think of an appropriate bad word, so I just made the impression there was a bad word.

Oh, I get it. It's kind of like when you need to **** the **** a **** ****ly with cheese.

[buttershug]

First it was heavy metal, then movies, then games. Some people just need to grow a pair, and admit that they are lousy parents, or that their kid just happens to be a homicidal maniac.


First?
You're forgetting pinball arcades, comic books, and juke joints to name but a few.

[Sir EvilFreeSmeg]

First it was heavy metal, then movies, then games. Some people just need to grow a pair, and admit that they are lousy parents, or that their kid just happens to be a homicidal maniac.
You forgot D&D.

[EliManning]

Correlation does not prove causation.

Precisely. Nobody can say that video games cause violence or that cell phones cause car accidents. At least not with a statistical argument such as those most commonly used. Correlation could even be due to a third factor. One might note that ice cream sales and the crime rate go up and down together and tie ice cream to crime without realizing that higher temperatures during the summer were influencing both the crime rate and the rate of ice cream sales. Correlation between two things doesn't even prove that a relation between them exists.


The late 80s was a period of high crime rates in the United States, but from the early 90s onwards crime, especially violent crime, has been in steady decline (despite what the media would have you believe).
...
Why?

Roe v Wade. The decline in crime rate began right around the time the first generation of abortable babies was coming of age. Lower income families have both higher crime rates and higher abortion rates. The crime rate was in decline because a lot of criminals stopped being born.


You need to take a course in statistics.

You're smarter than this. Come up with a real rebuttal.

[ffejrxx]

id agree that its the responsibility of the person who buys the games to prevent younger people from playing them, then monitor them when they are old enough, then explain that acting that way in public will probably get you arrested, shot or even killed, thats part of the job description of a parent

in the end its up to the persons conscience to decide if their actions are ok or not
criminals try to use any reason they can think of as a scapegoat for whatever crimes they commited, before violent games they have been blaming music, tv and movies

in the first lsl games there was a quiz that you needed to pass in order to even play the game, i think that did a good job at restricting younger people from playing, it still works on me :mad:

[Module88]

games cannot be blamed since all games have ratings, there's not an E rated game where you go around cutting people's head off
and if someone were to start blaming, it should be the parents that allow 13 year olds to play GTA

So if you stick a rating on something it absolves it of influence?

[Dondrei]

To all the guys that are trying to figure out what 12-letter swearword I used:

Those are just 12 stars, to provoke the idea that there is a swearsequenze underneeth it. (kinda like the stars and lightnings etc when cartoons swear)

I couldn't think of an appropriate bad word, so I just made the impression there was a bad word.

I thought so. You've just taken a little bit of magic out of the world.

*Runs away crying*


all games might have ratings but those ratings are not enforced which means children have access to adult rated games.

Would that be... the fault of the parents?


in the first lsl games there was a quiz that you needed to pass in order to even play the game, i think that did a good job at restricting younger people from playing, it still works on me

(Psst... Ctrl+X or Ctrl+Alt+X depending on version)

I know, some of the references are so old that even now I can't get them.


So if you stick a rating on something it absolves it of influence?

No, but it warns parents what is in the game. If they don't want their kids to see those things then they can stop them playing it. It's very simple.


You're smarter than this. Come up with a real rebuttal.

Fine, I'll run a short course for you:


Well, just to play devil's advocate, if one were to borrow the same statistical models that are used to demonstrate the "correlation" between cell phone usage and auto accidents, I'm pretty sure one would find a much stronger link between video game playing and violence. I bet a lot more than .02% of violent offenders have played video games (.02% being the number of accidents in which cell phones were involved which was offered as indisputable proof of the dangers of cell phones in the other thread).

Exercise A: What is wrong with this use of statistics?

Solution: The percentage of total violent offenders who have played video games says absolutely nothing about the likelihood of a link between the two. Similarly, the percentage of total accidents that involve cellular phones is not at all indicative of whether or not the use of cellular phones increases the risk of accident.

Consider the following counter-example:

Hacking your own head off with a chainsaw makes up less than 0.2% of all deaths in this country. Ergo, hacking your head off with a chainsaw is not fatal.

[Module88]

No, but it warns parents what is in the game. If they don't want their kids to see those things then they can stop them playing it. It's very simple.

He said that games aren't responsible because they have ratings on them. So if were to put a label on something that said it was ok for everyone to use, that means that video games aren't even partially responsible for causing violence? The fact is that ratings only help. Some kids can handle it better than others. Because everyone is different, a game will affect every single person in a slightly different way (or a big way). But that doesn't mean that it's not at least, partially responsible for some violence in children. Even if you don't buy the game, it's prevalent on the cover, or movies, or TV. Basically, are you saying that such things DON'T have any influence on violence? That MTV and myspace don't have an impact on kids?

I'd argue that video games are partly responsible for violence in young kids (as they tend to be more impressionable at that age), but that it's no excuse for actually committing a crime, and that it's not even necessarily a major factor in violence. Do you disagree?

[Dondrei]

He said that games aren't responsible because they have ratings on them. So if were to put a label on something that said it was ok for everyone to use, that means that video games aren't even partially responsible for causing violence? The fact is that ratings only help. Some kids can handle it better than others. Because everyone is different, a game will affect every single person in a slightly different way (or a big way). But that doesn't mean that it's not at least, partially responsible for some violence in children. Even if you don't buy the game, it's prevalent on the cover, or movies, or TV. Basically, are you saying that such things DON'T have any influence on violence? That MTV and myspace don't have an impact on kids?

I'd argue that video games are partly responsible for violence in young kids (as they tend to be more impressionable at that age), but that it's no excuse for actually committing a crime, and that it's not even necessarily a major factor in violence. Do you disagree?

Yes.

Someone is hardly going to go commit a violent crime just because they saw it in a computer game. If you're that messed up you would've done it anyway.

That said, it's not my decision what other people's children can and can't watch or play. They can do whatever they want on that score. What I object to is when they start wanting to ban things so NO-ONE can watch/play them. For one thing, what about adults who want to play adult games and watch adult movies? And for another, who are they to tell me what my children can and can't see or play?

[Module88]

Yes.

Someone is hardly going to go commit a violent crime just because they saw it in a computer game. If you're that messed up you would've done it anyway.


Perhaps, perhaps not. But it's certainly an influence. Do you really think that things like MTV and Hollywood don't influence people nowadays? Well. at least, in America. I don't know if anyone else even gets MTV.

[Dondrei]

Perhaps, perhaps not. But it's certainly an influence. Do you really think that things like MTV and Hollywood don't influence people nowadays? Well. at least, in America. I don't know if anyone else even gets MTV.

Yes I really think that TV and video games do not make people commit violent crimes.

[Module88]

Yes I really think that TV and video games do not make people commit violent crimes.

Do you really think that things like MTV and Hollywood don't influence people nowadays?

[Dondrei]

Do you really think that things like MTV and Hollywood don't influence people nowadays?

DIFFERENT QUESTION, IDIOT.

[Module88]

Once you answer the first one.

[Freet]

DIFFERENT QUESTION, IDIOT.

Damn it dondrei...

What am I going to have to do to get you to show constraint?

[Dondrei]

My fault, I lost my temper with him again.

[Stompwampa]

As much as I agree with the fact that parents use video games as a scapegoat for thier own child-rearing pitfalls, I can't help but think that violent video games can't have a good effect on children, that's for sure. And despite whether or not they make kids more violent, I think that violent games offer up new ideas to kids of how to enact violence.

Example:

The bully at school has never played video games before. He just beats up kids with his fists and feet.
Take that same bully and give him GTA for a few months, and now he decides that he's gonna beat up kids with a baseball bat, or a branch of a tree.
Has the act changed? not really. He's still beating kids up, just as he would have done before. But now, he has more violent means of doing so that may or may not be attributed to video games.

We watched a study in my psych class about violence in children. They took a bunch of 5-7 year olds and put them in a playroom type setting and had them all watch an episode of Barney, and then they watched how the kids played.

With another group they didn't let the kids watch anything, and just recorded how they went about playing and interacting.

With the third group, they had them watch an episode of Power Rangers and then let them start playing.

With the first group, they noticed the children singing more (to themselves mostly) and wanting to play with the art supplies, since the episode of Barney they watched involved art projects.

The second groupe interacted on a typical level where there were the few kids who were loud and obnoxious, a few who mainly kept to themselves, and then those who paired off with a buddy to play witht he trucks or dolls.

In the Power Rangers group the kids instantly started performing just like what they saw. They claimed roles as "I'm the Red ranger!" "No I'M the red ranger!" and were mimicking the karate kicks and punches they just watched.


It wasn't really suprising, but I think those results can be a little misleading given the age group and how susesptable they are to the power of suggestion and imitation at that learning age.
[/novel]

[Dondrei]

Well I'll say one thing, some games have made me violent in the sense of throwing controllers across the room or pounding the desk in frustration. I'm looking at you, Control level in Goldeneye...


The bully at school has never played video games before. He just beats up kids with his fists and feet.
Take that same bully and give him GTA for a few months, and now he decides that he's gonna beat up kids with a baseball bat, or a branch of a tree.
Has the act changed? not really. He's still beating kids up, just as he would have done before. But now, he has more violent means of doing so that may or may not be attributed to video games.

I'm pretty sure that if the bully had a baseball bat handy he would use it anyway.


We watched a study in my psych class about violence in children. They took a bunch of 5-7 year olds and put them in a playroom type setting and had them all watch an episode of Barney, and then they watched how the kids played.

With another group they didn't let the kids watch anything, and just recorded how they went about playing and interacting.

With the third group, they had them watch an episode of Power Rangers and then let them start playing.

With the first group, they noticed the children singing more (to themselves mostly) and wanting to play with the art supplies, since the episode of Barney they watched involved art projects.

The second groupe interacted on a typical level where there were the few kids who were loud and obnoxious, a few who mainly kept to themselves, and then those who paired off with a buddy to play witht he trucks or dolls.

In the Power Rangers group the kids instantly started performing just like what they saw. They claimed roles as "I'm the Red ranger!" "No I'M the red ranger!" and were mimicking the karate kicks and punches they just watched.


It wasn't really suprising, but I think those results can be a little misleading given the age group and how susesptable they are to the power of suggestion and imitation at that learning age.
[/novel]

But that's just because Power Rangers is exciting and it got them psyched up to play an energetic game.

[Stompwampa]

Well I'll say one thing, some games have made me violent in the sense of throwing controllers across the room or pounding the desk in frustration. I'm looking at you, Control level in Goldeneye...

oh, Lord, don't remind me... :shakes fist:


But that's just because Power Rangers is exciting and it got them psyched up to play an energetic game.

Hence "the power of suggestion at that age" :wink3:

[Dondrei]

Hence "the power of suggestion at that age" :wink3:

That's not really suggestion, it made them excited but didn't really trigger specific behaviour.

It's true there is some suggestion - I remember I started eating celery after Peter Davison became the fifth Doctor (man, that's embarrassing) - but to say that that could make an otherwise normal kid violent and homicidal is just stretching it way, way too far if you ask me.

[Stompwampa]

Oh c'mon, it's totally obvious that Marilyn Manson and Doom are to blame for the columbine shootings. I mean seriously, what normal kid doesn't torture animals, build pipe bombs in his garage and wear trenchcoats to scool? typical day-to-day stuff if you ask me.

[Dondrei]

Oh c'mon, it's totally obvious that Marilyn Manson and Doom are to blame for the columbine shootings. I mean seriously, what normal kid doesn't torture animals, build pipe bombs in his garage and wear trenchcoats to scool? typical day-to-day stuff if you ask me.

Was it Doom they played? Man, they were behind the times. If I were in that school I'd have dodged all their bullets easily by circle-strafing and jumping.

[Stompwampa]

Was it Doom they played? Man, they were behind the times. If I were in that school I'd have dodged all their bullets easily by circle-strafing and jumping.


screw that, I would have Spawn Camped at the school entrance and blown em away with my plasma rifle.

[Dawnmaster]

Oh, I get it. It's kind of like when you need to **** the **** a **** ****ly with cheese.

Exactly :grin:

[buttershug]

Oh c'mon, it's totally obvious that Marilyn Manson and Doom are to blame for the columbine shootings. I mean seriously, what normal kid doesn't torture animals, build pipe bombs in his garage and wear trenchcoats to scool? typical day-to-day stuff if you ask me.


Are you saying a song about childrens slide did not cause the Manson murders?


When I get to the bottom I go back to the top.

[ffejrxx]

I were in that school I'd have dodged all their bullets easily by circle-strafing and jumping.
you forgot about spamming gernades and shouting "head shot" :evil:

[Veilside]

As much as I agree with the fact that parents use video games as a scapegoat for thier own child-rearing pitfalls, I can't help but think that violent video games can't have a good effect on children, that's for sure. And despite whether or not they make kids more violent, I think that violent games offer up new ideas to kids of how to enact violence.

Example:

The bully at school has never played video games before. He just beats up kids with his fists and feet.
Take that same bully and give him GTA for a few months, and now he decides that he's gonna beat up kids with a baseball bat, or a branch of a tree.
Has the act changed? not really. He's still beating kids up, just as he would have done before. But now, he has more violent means of doing so that may or may not be attributed to video games.




if it's illegal for a child to be playing that game then you cannot blame the game for causing the violent behaviour. You have to blame the innefectiveness of the retail industry at selling these games to the correct age group and the fact that people consider all games to be suitable for children. it's all fine and well saying some 10 year old kid played GTA and started to beat up other kids because of it, but noone stops to think that GTA has an 18 BBFC rating and it's not the game manufacturers fault that the child had access to it.

[Freet]

...You have to blame the innefectiveness of the retail industry at selling these games to the correct age group and the fact that people consider all games to be suitable for children....

No, you have to blame the bully's parents. The problem origionated from the parents failure to raise the child to respect other people. Therein lies the cause and where the blame should be pointed. Unfortunately, the video game market is only offering what sells and society makes this call. Society is nothing more than a sum of it's parts and many of the parts are defective thanks to failure on the parents parts.


it's all fine and well saying some 10 year old kid played GTA and started to beat up other kids because of it, but noone stops to think that GTA has an 18 BBFC rating and it's not the game manufacturers fault that the child had access to it.

Again, if the game is meant for people 18 and over then who is to blame for the 10 year old getting it? Why does the 10 year old have the $40 to pay? Why is the 10 year old spending $40 without proper supervision?

[Veilside]

No, you have to blame the bully's parents. The problem origionated from the parents failure to raise the child to respect other people. Therein lies the cause and where the blame should be pointed. Unfortunately, the video game market is only offering what sells and society makes this call. Society is nothing more than a sum of it's parts and many of the parts are defective thanks to failure on the parents parts.



Again, if the game is meant for people 18 and over then who is to blame for the 10 year old getting it? Why does the 10 year old have the $40 to pay? Why is the 10 year old spending $40 without proper supervision?


you should read the other replies i wrote in this thread :wink3:


hence why the ratings need to made legal requirements in the countries where they aren't already and why parents need to be held accountable for young children having access to these games.


lame maybe but it'd help stop all those bloody moronic parents from milking the video games industry for their faults in raising their child. In england we have BBFC certificates on some games, it is illegal to sell an 18 rated game to anyone aged 18 or younger, so, if a parent chooses to buy that game for a 12 or 13 year old child, any resulting problems are entirely the parents fault.


the person that buys the game should be help responsible for giving it to someone that is not of the legal age. stop nitpicking :rolleyes:

[Sokar Rostau]

you should read the other replies i wrote in this thread :wink3:


I've gotten to the age where I need my false teeth and hearing aid before I can ask where I left my glasses.

ten crahtcreas