Is 75% Chance to Block really necessary with D/A/E and 35% PDR?

[FrostBurn]

This thought occurred to me and I was wondering what others think of it.

For a LF/CS/PJ Javazon using Stormshield for the 35% PDR and about 45%-55% in D/A/E, is there any point in getting blocking to 75% as well? Okay, defence wouldn't be as high as a Holy Shield paladin, so that means D/A/E comes into play much more often.

Since about 50% of enemy attacks will be D'ed/A'ed/E'ed, and Stormshield offers 35% PDR (more if Harlequin Crest is added), can the Javazon get away with 109 dex to use Titan's (and whatever chance to block % that comes up as), and absorb the remaining 65% physical damage with max vita?

Edit: Forgot to mention that this is for PvM.

[SSoG]

75% block isn't required for anyone. Two-handed characters kill just fine in PvM situations without a lick of blocking, so obviously a 1-hander should be able to make do with less than 75%, especially with D/A/E, defense, and DR%.

[HaLoPhReAk]

Uhhh... You don't see many 2 handed weapon people that are effective :rolleyes: . The sheild is such a good thing, it can add so many things, and ofcourse; make you able to block. I haven't really ever focused on getting high block percentages, but I'd say all the better if you get it good. I would say to get decent block, but with god D/A/E, it isn't as essential compared to a Pally. I suggest to get the 75, but I believe you will do just fine with 50% D/A/E if you don't want to (and decide to go health).

[Attract]

If you play hardcore, 75% is necessary.

[tbz]

which shield do you recommend for a hardcore mode player?

[thulsa]

Uhhh... You don't see many 2 handed weapon people that are effective

Frenzy barb, built and equipped properly.
The only thing that would cause any type real problem would be exploding dolls, unless of course, the frenzy barb temporarily wep switched to a one-handed wep and shield to help deal with them and their exploding effects. :smiley:

[PhatTrumpet]

If you play hardcore, 75% is necessary.
No, it isn't.

The reason that 75% block is so attrative is that it's essentially like having 75%DR up front with usually only a moderate dexterity investement required. But for the sake of arguement let's assume some rough numbers (~50%D/A/E and 35%DR for both setups):

Min dex setup:
~35% chance to block
~2k life

Max block setup:
75% chance to block
~1.7k life

For the min dex setup, your effective physical damage taken over time modifier will be:
[1 - D/A/E/] * [1 - block] * [1 - DR]
[0.50] * [0.65] * [0.65] = 0.21125

For the max block setup:
[0.50] * [0.25] * [0.65] = 0.08125 (or effectively 61.54% less physical damage taken than the min dex setup)
Notice that since the first and third terms are constant between the two equations they can be eliminated

But you also have less life than before:
[2,000] / [1,700] = 1.1765 (or 17.65% less life)

Seems like an easy decision to me, unless of course elemental damage is of big concern to you.

[Cope]

My HCL polearm barbarian fears nothing but Iron Maiden, so I beg to differ in regards to two handed weapon characters not being effective.

That being said, you could upgrade the Titan's (it would require 152 dex then), attain higher physical damage, and have a high blocking %.

[SSoG]

Uhhh... You don't see many 2 handed weapon people that are effective :rolleyes: . The sheild is such a good thing, it can add so many things, and ofcourse; make you able to block. I haven't really ever focused on getting high block percentages, but I'd say all the better if you get it good. I would say to get decent block, but with god D/A/E, it isn't as essential compared to a Pally. I suggest to get the 75, but I believe you will do just fine with 50% D/A/E if you don't want to (and decide to go health).
Sure you do. People use 1-handers because that's what they see everyone else using, but 2-handers are frequently more effective than 1-handers. PvM-wise, at least, a 2-handed (or dual 1-handed) Charger, Leap Attack Barb, Berskerker, Meleemancer, Whirlwinder, Martial Artist, Frenzier, or Double Swing Barb will all far outpace their 1-handed brethren. Even in Hardcore.

No, it isn't.

The reason that 75% block is so attrative is that it's essentially like having 75%DR up front with usually only a moderate dexterity investement required. But for the sake of arguement let's assume some rough numbers (~50%D/A/E and 35%DR for both setups):

Min dex setup:
~35% chance to block
~2k life

Max block setup:
75% chance to block
~1.7k life

For the min dex setup, your effective physical damage taken over time modifier will be:
[1 - D/A/E/] * [1 - block] * [1 - DR]
[0.50] * [0.65] * [0.65] = 0.21125

For the max block setup:
[0.50] * [0.25] * [0.65] = 0.08125 (or effectively 61.54% less physical damage taken than the min dex setup)
Notice that since the first and third terms are constant between the two equations they can be eliminated

But you also have less life than before:
[2,000] / [1,700] = 1.1765 (or 17.65% less life)

Seems like an easy decision to me, unless of course elemental damage is of big concern to you.
Such analysis is fatally flawed. You forgot the biggest draw of 2-handers- they deal over twice as much damage. Dealing twice as much damage is just as good as 50% damage reduction straight out, since you kill monsters twice as fast (which means they only have half as long to damage you). So add in the 50% damage reduction from a doubled kill speed, and factor in the 17.65% life boost, and 2-handers will (in my mind at least) outstrip a 1-hander/shield setup. And while 2-handers tend to be a frame or two slower than 1-handers, unless you're a Paladin blocking takes 4+ frames, so the speed difference is made up every time you block (and lose out on the ensuing frames). Plus you can't get into block-lock with a 2-hander.

Really, the biggest reason to use a shield in PvM is for the extra +skills (from Spirit), resists, or whatever other mod... *NOT* for the blocking.

The two best tanks I've ever made were both 2-handers. One was a PDR Pally using Cleansing + Insight + Prayer for massive life regen, and the other was a War Cry/Berserk Barbarian who stunned everything and then splattered it all over the wall with his massive damage berserks.

[PhatTrumpet]

Such analysis is fatally flawed. You forgot the biggest draw of 2-handers- they deal over twice as much damage. Dealing twice as much damage is just as good as 50% damage reduction straight out, since you kill monsters twice as fast (which means they only have half as long to damage you). So add in the 50% damage reduction from a doubled kill speed, and factor in the 17.65% life boost, and 2-handers will (in my mind at least) outstrip a 1-hander/shield setup. And while 2-handers tend to be a frame or two slower than 1-handers, unless you're a Paladin blocking takes 4+ frames, so the speed difference is made up every time you block (and lose out on the ensuing frames). Plus you can't get into block-lock with a 2-hander.

Really, the biggest reason to use a shield in PvM is for the extra +skills (from Spirit), resists, or whatever other mod... *NOT* for the blocking.

The two best tanks I've ever made were both 2-handers. One was a PDR Pally using Cleansing + Insight + Prayer for massive life regen, and the other was a War Cry/Berserk Barbarian who stunned everything and then splattered it all over the wall with his massive damage berserks.
Such analysis is also flawed; this thread is about a Javazon.

[SSoG]

Such analysis is also flawed; this thread is about a Javazon.
Well, Spearazons are really just Javazons at heart. :tongue:

[FrostBurn]

No, it isn't.

The reason that 75% block is so attrative is that it's essentially like having 75%DR up front with usually only a moderate dexterity investement required. But for the sake of arguement let's assume some rough numbers (~50%D/A/E and 35%DR for both setups):

Min dex setup:
~35% chance to block
~2k life

Max block setup:
75% chance to block
~1.7k life

For the min dex setup, your effective physical damage taken over time modifier will be:
[1 - D/A/E/] * [1 - block] * [1 - DR]
[0.50] * [0.65] * [0.65] = 0.21125

For the max block setup:
[0.50] * [0.25] * [0.65] = 0.08125 (or effectively 61.54% less physical damage taken than the min dex setup)
Notice that since the first and third terms are constant between the two equations they can be eliminated

But you also have less life than before:
[2,000] / [1,700] = 1.1765 (or 17.65% less life)

Seems like an easy decision to me, unless of course elemental damage is of big concern to you.

Thanks PhatTrumpet. As always, it is good to read your brilliant feedback and study your acute analysis. In the sorc forum, I bookmarked your explanation of the interaction between Firebolt, Fireball, FM and the relative balance between FBolt and FM to achieve optimum Fireball damage. Best explanation I've ever come across.

Back on topic, I've always been a fan of 75% chance to block. As I'm in the stages of planning my first Amazon, the D/A/E abilities are new to me. Hence my question on whether D/A/E somewhat nullifies max blocking. Your explanation settles that.

My question was somewhat academic in any case. With so much dexterity already invested to equip an upgraded Titan's (when I find a really good one, or an eth one), it won't take much more dex to reach max blocking. It is still good to see the figures though.

[Attract]

No, it isn't.

The reason that 75% block is so attrative is that it's essentially like having 75%DR up front with usually only a moderate dexterity investement required. But for the sake of arguement let's assume some rough numbers (~50%D/A/E and 35%DR for both setups):

Min dex setup:
~35% chance to block
~2k life

Max block setup:
75% chance to block
~1.7k life

For the min dex setup, your effective physical damage taken over time modifier will be:
[1 - D/A/E/] * [1 - block] * [1 - DR]
[0.50] * [0.65] * [0.65] = 0.21125

For the max block setup:
[0.50] * [0.25] * [0.65] = 0.08125 (or effectively 61.54% less physical damage taken than the min dex setup)
Notice that since the first and third terms are constant between the two equations they can be eliminated

But you also have less life than before:
[2,000] / [1,700] = 1.1765 (or 17.65% less life)

Seems like an easy decision to me, unless of course elemental damage is of big concern to you.

Wow! You proved me wrong lol. I guess I just prefer 75% max block. it gives me a feeling of security when baaling. Very nice post though, I'm horrible with math.